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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:16:00 -
[31]
Seen this happen alot in empire of/c, people who lock you to
1)see if you have autolock on.
2)see if you will fire on them to make you kill yourself.
Personally i don't have autolock on, never have. I want to be able to chose my own targets as dictated by circumstances or the FC.
First thing i do if i lock someone by accident is remove that person before firing a shot on the actual target. Yes i may miss the target, but safe is better than sorry and i don't end up CONCORDOKEN'D. Like you. 
I have to agree that i don't like the auto-switch making the new target live as i have seen it kill afew friendlies. However, the cack-handed flamey way you put across this simple premise (i don't like tha autotarget-change) is why you are getting flamed.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:19:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Monty Burns
Guns dont fire on a new target, even if its a lock back, until you tell them too Ive seen auto-lock, indeed I use it, but I always check my target.
They do, and I've used the feature extensively for murdering NPC frig spawns in battleships (I needed to gain standings through L2 agents and couldn't be bothered to set up a cruiser properly). Try it sometime - get them at range so they die quick, lock a whole bunch of them, select one target, and start activating guns. You won't have to designate a new target until all those you locked have been destroyed.
The trick is that you need to select one target to get it going. If you try activating guns before selecting anything, then yes, you have to tell them who to shoot at. But once you've selected one, it'll automatically shift along the row of locked targets until you run out of them. That means you can start off with a legitimate target selected, and if that one disappers, it will automatically move you to a target you didn't want to fire at (whether that be a neutral who got a lock-back, or a friendly you're remote boosting).
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:27:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Derisor on 03/06/2005 11:27:47
Originally by: Trooper B99
However, the cack-handed flamey way you put across this simple premise (i don't like tha autotarget-change) is why you are getting flamed.
Nah Im getting flamed because some people love looking at themselves in the mirror and blowing kisses at themself. I didnt ask for any reimbursement or any action. I didnt yell at CCP or try to pass blame off to anyone else. I simply was warning people to turn it off. Yes, I shot at M Corp in my post but everything stated is actually fact. If they dont like that fact on the forum that is not my problem.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Monty Burns
Guns dont fire on a new target, even if its a lock back, until you tell them too Ive seen auto-lock, indeed I use it, but I always check my target.
They do, and I've used the feature extensively for murdering NPC frig spawns in battleships (I needed to gain standings through L2 agents and couldn't be bothered to set up a cruiser properly). Try it sometime - get them at range so they die quick, lock a whole bunch of them, select one target, and start activating guns. You won't have to designate a new target until all those you locked have been destroyed.
The trick is that you need to select one target to get it going. If you try activating guns before selecting anything, then yes, you have to tell them who to shoot at. But once you've selected one, it'll automatically shift along the row of locked targets until you run out of them. That means you can start off with a legitimate target selected, and if that one disappers, it will automatically move you to a target you didn't want to fire at (whether that be a neutral who got a lock-back, or a friendly you're remote boosting).
You still have to pull the trigger though.
User error, plain and simple.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Matthew
You still have to pull the trigger though.
User error, plain and simple.
yes. It was user error. I am being a nice guy trying to help other people not make the same mistake. Other people in here are being something that comes out of a cesspool
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Trooper B99
First thing i do if i lock someone by accident is remove that person before firing a shot on the actual target. Yes i may miss the target, but safe is better than sorry and i don't end up CONCORDOKEN'D. Like you.
That works, but requires you to:
1) Notice you're locking that person erroneously
2) Wait for the lock to complete so you can cancel it - not being able to cancel a lock attempt is another minor gripe.
Now, given some locks can be aquired in seconds (meaning you have very little chance of noticing it until he pops into your locked list), and that the auto-switch happens instantly, it's possible to have the "wrong" target appear, the "right" target disappear and for you to have fired on the "wrong" target before you have any hope of realising what's happening. Sure, it's unlikely to happen, but that it's possible at all is bad - at least without an option to "engage safeties" for a more robust system.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Derisor
Originally by: Avon
You still have to pull the trigger though.
User error, plain and simple.
yes. It was user error. I am being a nice guy trying to help other people not make the same mistake. Other people in here are being something that comes out of a cesspool
What is the default auto-lock back?
Is it 1?
(honest question, I really can't remember - but it worth knowing if the default is a 'safe' setting or not)
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Matthew on 03/06/2005 11:46:49
Originally by: Avon
You still have to pull the trigger though.
User error, plain and simple.
The system allows automatic transfer from weapon-on-enemy to weapon-on-neutral faster than a human can react. We're talking this sort of timeline (time in seconds)
0 - legit target locked and selected
0.5 - F1+F2 activated on legit target
1 - F3+F4 activated on legit target, erroneous neutral lock completes
1.5 - F5+F6 activated on legit target, legit target lock lost, auto-switch to neutral
2 - F7+F8 activated on neutral.
In any real system this possibility would be considered a critical safety failure that would ban the system from use. The human operator would not be expected to compensate for it. Unless you think you could register the disappearance of the valid target, conclude what action that should trigger, and then stop the in-progress motion of your fingers in under 0.5 seconds? I'd call that a pretty tall order, even for a hardened twitch gamer.
Originally by: Avon
What is the default auto-lock back?
Is it 1?
(honest question, I really can't remember - but it worth knowing if the default is a 'safe' setting or not)
Default setting is 2, as far as I remember.
EDIT: Though the last time I had it on default was many months ago, so could be remembering wrong!
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:45:00 -
[39]
And lets not mention that you have to recall all your drones in the meantime as they will autoattack the second target. Im sure that can be done in 0.5 sec. Its actually my drones that got me CONCORDed
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:45:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Derisor on 03/06/2005 11:48:34
Originally by: Avon
What is the default auto-lock back?
Is it 1?
(honest question, I really can't remember - but it worth knowing if the default is a 'safe' setting or not)
Ya .. its 1.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Firebyrd
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:53:00 -
[41]
happened to me i was in a large barge, and was setting up to defend against some NPCs, in a .5 sector, when a gang mate(not in my corp at the time) targeted me accedently, and i let my drones fly, didnt figure out what happened till later, but he also lost a large transport, when he activated a gun on what he thought was an NPC but targeted a friend....lol, o well u live and learn
-----------------------------------------------
In the End , there can be only 1
Today we celebrate, for tomorrow we die
learn from yesterday, that u may be stronger tomorrow
May the force be with us all |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:56:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Avon on 03/06/2005 12:26:48
Edited by: Avon on 03/06/2005 11:57:02
Originally by: Derisor
And lets not mention that you have to recall all your drones in the meantime as they will autoattack the second target. Im sure that can be done in 0.5 sec. Its actually my drones that got me CONCORDed
Your drones do not auto-attack non hostile players.
I assume you mean they attacked because you fired, otherwise you are discrediting your own arguement.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Mac Knife
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Posted - 2005.06.03 11:56:00 -
[43]
Lol. Nice job for making me laugh this morning, i needed that 
Also maybe next time just post that all new players to pvp should put auto lock to 0 without flaming M corp. Might get you a little better reception.
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Monty Burns
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Derisor
Translates to you didnt read the post.
Yup. I did. As Avon, myself and other point out, you still have to fire at the target. It's not that dificult to watch what you are firing at instead of blindly in a panic just firing as quick as you can.
Yes. I have an evil pirate character and have seen lots of empire combat including wars. No I will not name him as that would mean people who cannot seperate diferent accounts that he has killed will try n take revenge on Monty, an empire friendly.
Im sticking with Darwin on this one.
Darwin 4tw
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:28:00 -
[45]
Isn't there a concordokken warning though, that you get when you activate a weapon on a 'non hostile'?
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DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Derisor
Edited by: Derisor on 03/06/2005 11:46:07
First, turn off autolocking. Hit esc an go to your settings and look for the settings that says auto relock targets and put a 0 in there. I lost a ship to this during a war with M. Corp (the kings of cheese). They undocked the target ship (a legit war target) and had one of their pirate friends (not in corp war) lock me at the same time. As I was activating my modules the legit target redocked, and the computer automatically switched me to the non-legit target. I fired on a non war target and CONCORD griefed me.
Why am I telling this "secret" of pvp? Because its not a legit tactic. Its complete utter cheese perpetrated only by total cowards and immature 12 year olds. I would never want to get a kill like that. I will earn them.
Same goes for sentries in low sec. M. Corp and other pirate dweebs will lock you up in the hopes that you auto lock them back and fire on them. Then the sentries will waste you. They will also do this in 0.5 empire while you are chaining spawns in a belt.
Dont be fooled by pseudo 0.0 space like egbinger. That is still empire and you will still be screwed. Just sit there letting them lock you in case they make a mistake. (but if they bring in a sniping BS out of sentry gun range then get out of there).
TURN IT OFF NOW!
Dont wait. Someone can dec you and grief a BS or something valuable. I learned this lesson the hard way and it cost me a vexxor. Dont make the same mistake.
Edited for clarity. To all the flamers ... and people with huge egos, grow up.
Originally by: NoNameNewbie
3. ESC --> General --> Auto Relock >> 0 << Targets !
gee u get caught like a noob and didnt pay attention and this is important to the world in what way???
...here, have a cookie and a towel for your tears, now go lay down and dry your tears...
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:35:00 -
[47]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Isn't there a concordokken warning though, that you get when you activate a weapon on a 'non hostile'?
Not if you de-activate it. You pretty much have to, otherwise in a fight you lose time clicking on all the popups away "For the seventh time, are you absolutely sure you want to shoot?"
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:36:00 -
[48]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Isn't there a concordokken warning though, that you get when you activate a weapon on a 'non hostile'?
The trouble is, I've had this pop up on me when trying to fire on war targets, it's not very selective about when it appears. Hence, it's not gonna help you differentiate valid from invalid targets anyway.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Derisor on 03/06/2005 12:43:29
Originally by: Avon
Your drones do not auto-attack non hostile players.
I assume you mean they attacked because you fired, otherwise you are discrediting your own arguement.
I told them to attack the legit war target, they went after the second target as he docked.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Wrok
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:42:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Derisor
I fired on a non war target and CONCORD griefed me.
CONCORD are griefers!? I always had a hunch :-/
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
gee u get caught like a noob and didnt pay attention and this is important to the world in what way???
...here, have a cookie and a towel for your tears, now go lay down and dry your tears...
Ignore the tone of the original post, and engage your brain around the valid point that's been developed out of it.
Noob or veteran, paying attention or not, anyone can be caught out by this - the target switch can happen so fast that you don't have time to react to it, let alone enough time to stop your finger that's already speeding down onto the trigger.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.03 12:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: DukDodgerz
gee u get caught like a noob and didnt pay attention and this is important to the world in what way???
...here, have a cookie and a towel for your tears, now go lay down and dry your tears...
Even you were a "noob" once and even you didnt know about this once. Why do you have such a problem with me telling other people about it?
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2005.06.03 13:12:00 -
[53]
ôYour drones do not auto-attack non hostile players.
I assume you mean they attacked because you fired, otherwise you are discrediting your own arguement.ö
I wish that was true often if a none hostile player useÆs a helpful module on you like shield recharge or remote amour repairer then the drone class them as a valid target. At lest it used to be like that not tried it for month or two.
_________________________________________________
Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.03 13:16:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pottsey
“Your drones do not auto-attack non hostile players.
I assume you mean they attacked because you fired, otherwise you are discrediting your own arguement.”
I wish that was true often if a none hostile player use’s a helpful module on you like shield recharge or remote amour repairer then the drone class them as a valid target. At lest it used to be like that not tried it for month or two.
Technically that makes them hostile (I know what you are saying, but the game does not discriminate as we do because those modules can be used to aid someone who is performing a hostile act).
If a non-hostile target had done this to him, it would have been him that got concordoken, and would have been criminally flagged.
My point stands.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Manny Tanato
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Posted - 2005.06.03 13:34:00 -
[55]
Derisor, keep your head up. There are people out there who do appreciate your post. Ignore the looser flamers who tried their feeble best to get under your skin. I respect you for the way you displayed class by not descending to their level.
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Bluestealth
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:04:00 -
[56]
Ive had this "feature" disabled since when I lost a ship to it because of the cant jump while you have target "feature"... lost my BS a few days after I came back to game in a fight with their Kieritsu... that was fun lol, anyways I sucked it up, and went to empire for a week or so and mined a new BS then returned to 0.0... needed the time anyways to get used to flying again lol
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:13:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Pottsey
ôYour drones do not auto-attack non hostile players.
I assume you mean they attacked because you fired, otherwise you are discrediting your own arguement.ö
I wish that was true often if a none hostile player useÆs a helpful module on you like shield recharge or remote amour repairer then the drone class them as a valid target. At lest it used to be like that not tried it for month or two.
Technically that makes them hostile (I know what you are saying, but the game does not discriminate as we do because those modules can be used to aid someone who is performing a hostile act).
If a non-hostile target had done this to him, it would have been him that got concordoken, and would have been criminally flagged.
My point stands.
No, using a helper module puts you in the same boat as whoever you use it on, it doesn't make them hostile to the person they are used on. The system considers the use of such aid modules a friendly act, not a hostile act. As such, if you use one on a criminal flagged player, you get flagged too. If you use one on a player in a war, you become a valid target for those involved in the war. That's how it deals with the issue of aiding hostiles, it doesn't consider all boosting a hostile act in itself. So the war enemy's drones should see the booster as hostile and attack it.
But in this case, it's the person recieving the boosting who's drones are in question. They should not see the booster as a hostile. If these drones attack a booster automatically, then there is a bug in the drone's target identification code.
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:19:00 -
[58]
Please keep this thread friendly and refrain from any flaming/trolling.
Thank you! 
{The Forum Rules} | {Email Us!} |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:36:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Pottsey
“Your drones do not auto-attack non hostile players.
I assume you mean they attacked because you fired, otherwise you are discrediting your own arguement.”
I wish that was true often if a none hostile player use’s a helpful module on you like shield recharge or remote amour repairer then the drone class them as a valid target. At lest it used to be like that not tried it for month or two.
Technically that makes them hostile (I know what you are saying, but the game does not discriminate as we do because those modules can be used to aid someone who is performing a hostile act).
If a non-hostile target had done this to him, it would have been him that got concordoken, and would have been criminally flagged.
My point stands.
No, using a helper module puts you in the same boat as whoever you use it on, it doesn't make them hostile to the person they are used on. The system considers the use of such aid modules a friendly act, not a hostile act. As such, if you use one on a criminal flagged player, you get flagged too. If you use one on a player in a war, you become a valid target for those involved in the war. That's how it deals with the issue of aiding hostiles, it doesn't consider all boosting a hostile act in itself. So the war enemy's drones should see the booster as hostile and attack it.
But in this case, it's the person recieving the boosting who's drones are in question. They should not see the booster as a hostile. If these drones attack a booster automatically, then there is a bug in the drone's target identification code.
Sit in Yulai and boost everyone who flies past - then we'll know if it has been fixed.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
V2GBR
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Posted - 2005.06.03 14:38:00 -
[60]
All that ****s me off with his post is the its not a LEGIT tactic, ie blaming game mechanics, oh and the insulting M Corp.
Thats why people dont listen to him anymore.
He has posted many topics in the past 2 weeks and never listens to anyone but himself. No wonder people flame him.
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http://guc.webinventions.co.uk <-- GUC Site.
www.webinventions.co.uk <-- My eve history. |
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