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Khalessi Khagah Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.28 04:02:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, So I have been banned from the GÇ£bulk tradeGÇ¥ mailing list. I am a newer player, trying to make a go in trading. I have used the mailing list to buy items, I came into some T3 subs, figured I would give the sell a go. This is the first sell mail that I made. Legion Subs From: Khalessi Khagah Sent: 2012.12.27 19:55 To: Bulk Trade, Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter 20x 90mil per unit, lots of 5 only Dont like my price, make me an offer...... in jita 4-4 Now while I will agree perhaps not the best contextually mail that has ever came across the mailing list, (it is far from the worst that I had seen that day.) I did forget to put a WTS in the title, First time mistake right? BANHAMMER Sent W3370Pi4 a mail, and here is the conversation. ban? From: Khalessi Khagah Sent: 2012.12.27 21:56 To: W3370Pi4, Why have i been banned? Re: ban? From: W3370Pi4 Sent: 2012.12.28 01:07 To: Khalessi Khagah, no respect of the templates its 150m isk to be unbanned Regards Re: Re: ban? From: Khalessi Khagah Sent: 2012.12.28 01:31 To: W3370Pi4, Is this some sort of scam your running here, trying to cash in on the new guys? Re: Re: Re: ban? From: W3370Pi4 Sent: 2012.12.28 01:37 To: Khalessi Khagah, http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bulk_Trade_(Mailing_list) Re: Re: Re: Re: ban? From: Khalessi Khagah Sent: 2012.12.28 02:11 To: W3370Pi4, Read the rules. with the exception of not putting a WTS in my title, the formating was not any diffrent than any mail ive read on the mailing list. You have a vested intrest in banning new people to pay the "unban" fee, so that you can cash in on your reputation. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ban? From: W3370Pi4 Sent: 2012.12.28 02:14 To: Khalessi Khagah, nope i am just cashing in on very hard work that people ** all over without a single care in the world. i was nicer before and still people dont care. so i have to be ruthless because in the end , nobody has the guts to make a new mailing list its too much efforts and pays very little or only after a long time. I have no vendetta against the new people i ban old members aswell all the same . Regards Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ban? From: Khalessi Khagah Sent: 2012.12.28 03:19 To: W3370Pi4, With respect, im not trying to ** on anything. And i care which is why im mailing you. If you want a pay mailing list, then make it a pay mailing list. There are alot of people that would pay and use it. But dont use the ban hammer to make isk on the backdoor, you are hurting your hard earned reputation. Talking with corp mates, there have been a number of them that are in the same situation im in right now. Make a sell mail, and ban hammer 100-150mil to get back on. You are trying to cash in here, its just what it is. As far as "nobody has the guts to make a new mailing list" there hasnt been a need for one because one already exist that fullfills the need. However with the rampant banning you are killing the hard work that youve put into it. And that was the end of it. I did bait him a bit, but he freely admitted to using the banning as a way to make isk off of a GÇ£freeGÇ¥ Mailing list. If youve had a similar unexplained ban, or story please post. Also Feel free to troll and flame, usually the best part of a thread
Apachekills Jita Trading Cartel 16	Posted - 2012.12.28 04:08:00 - [2] - Quote Had a similar situation. been a member buying and selling on there for years, made a sale thread one day and got banned. sent a mail and a reply saying that i "broke the rules" but it was only 100mil for me, which i didnt pay. ....
Zoltan Lazar 84	Posted - 2012.12.28 05:20:00 - [3] - Quote They run a service. If you use that service wrong, it's their rules you need to follow.
Styth spiting Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate 204	Posted - 2012.12.28 07:07:00 - [4] - Quote I take you you didn't read the email that was sent out on the list the other day by the mailing list administrator? Quote: I was previously considering to change the mailing list to a pay to access mailing list I will no longer do that because the suscribers do not agree with the change However i will be very aggresive with bans on people who show a lack of respect for the template system especially for the email subjects and the prices They have the rules of the mailing list in several places all of which are very reasonable and easy to follow. You broke the rules and the admin banned you. Yes it sucks but that's what happens. You should be happy that he gave you the ability to buy your way back on to the list (a costly learning experience) instead of simply mail blocking you. If this is what the admin has to do to keep the list running smoothly and effectively they I say good for him. And if players have to pay an 1d107 tax to get back onto the list then great. Chances are the guy makes little to no isk taking the time to have to deal with the list so if he can make it worth his time from the people who can't follow the rules so it can remain free for those of us who do follow the rules then I say go for it man.
XrayZII AVE EVE 14	Posted - 2012.12.28 07:54:00 - [5] - Quote what Styth said... move along now, nothing to see here. - X. Legit Trading / Bulk Trade ML Manager.
shar'ra matcevsovski white knightess 256	Posted - 2012.12.28 09:10:00 - [6] - Quote I found the isk fine-system was kinda fishy aswell Styth spiting wrote: You should be happy that he gave you the ability to buy your way back on to the list (a costly learning experience) instead of simply mail blocking you. an. yea true, so its entirely selflessly of them to take the money "a costly learning experience"-->worst excuse ever to take unjustified money Boost T2 BPO`s!
Styth spiting Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate 206	Posted - 2012.12.28 09:48:00 - [7] - Quote shar'ra matcevsovski wrote: I found the isk fine-system was kinda fishy aswell Styth spiting wrote: You should be happy that he gave you the ability to buy your way back on to the list (a costly learning experience) instead of simply mail blocking you. an. yea true, so its entirely selflessly of them to take the money "a costly learning experience"-->worst excuse ever to take unjustified money The fines and banning policy has been a rule for like nearly 12 months (based on the wiki history) that you will be fined. Just because the OP didn't read the rules (explains why he was banned) doesn't give him the right falsely accuse someone of scamming. From the rules wiki page Quote: Warning: As of the 30th January 2012 failure to follow the templates will result in you being banned without prior warnings, and if you want to be unbanned you will need to pay a fine ranging from 50M to 500M isk. There are in fact a total of 3 different places on the rules page that talks about fines. In fact the above portion is in RED directly under the section how to write a mail for the mailing list. You can't miss it. shar'ra matcevsovski wrote: "a costly learning experience"-->worst excuse ever to take unjustified money Any worse then the excuse you have for spamming the mailing list? It's a free service. Use it or don't. If you get banned don't use it or pay the fine if you make a ton of money off of it. Pretty simple really.
shar'ra matcevsovski white knightess 259	Posted - 2012.12.28 10:29:00 - [8] - Quote Styth spiting wrote: The fines and banning policy has been a rule for like nearly 12 months (based on the wiki history) that you will be fined. Just because the OP didn't read the rules (explains why he was banned) doesn't give him the right falsely accuse someone of scamming. From the rules wiki page Quote: Warning: As of the 30th January 2012 failure to follow the templates will result in you being banned without prior warnings, and if you want to be unbanned you will need to pay a fine ranging from 50M to 500M isk. There are in fact a total of 3 different places on the rules page that talks about fines. In fact the above portion is in RED directly under the section how to write a mail for the mailing list. You can't miss it. lol, in fact, nobody was ever doubting that the rules were written down somewhere so many words, to say so little about something that nobody was ever arguing about Styth spiting wrote: Any worse then the excuse you have for spamming the mailing list? you know what "excuse" and "spamming" means, right? Styth spiting wrote: It's a free service. apparently its not, or not until people stop making mistakes, (wich is likely ever gona happen, yea..) Boost T2 BPO`s!
Samroski Games Inc. 129	Posted - 2012.12.28 10:30:00 - [9] - Quote The main lesson to learn is that Eve is a harsh universe. Empathy is equally sparsely distributed. Any other forums, and OP may have come across some. Our attitude is: adapt or die. Those who survive may enjoy a long and bright future :) More on topic: Notwithstanding minor ethical issues in list management policy and in the described interaction, OP does not have a case. OP has my empathy as she appears to be a genuine new player. In case OP decides to pay the fine, I offer to contribute 50% (directly to the list manger on OP's behalf). Happiness is a warm gun.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2936	Posted - 2012.12.28 11:38:00 - [10] - Quote Samroski wrote: The main lesson to learn is that Eve is a harsh universe. Empathy is equally sparsely distributed. Any other forums, and OP may have come across some. Our attitude is: adapt or die. Those who survive may enjoy a long and bright future :) More on topic: Notwithstanding minor ethical issues in list management policy and in the described interaction, OP does not have a case. OP has my empathy as she appears to be a genuine new player. In case OP decides to pay the fine, I offer to contribute 50% (directly to the list manger on OP's behalf). I have an idea! Make the fines be paid to an unrelated entity so there's no conflict of interest. Avoiding myself a conflict of interest, I could suggest the ISK could be sent to Chribba's VAERT sister fund. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel

Lumber Jackie InterGalactic Banking Clan 0	Posted - 2012.12.28 14:18:00 - [11] - Quote W3370Pi4 is a ****** why do pay 150M for a mistake? OR now after 1st january we need to pay 25M to be accepted to new bulk trading mailing list? some one needs to create a new mailinglist for trading,and runs it without paying a fee
flakeys Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition 690	Posted - 2012.12.28 14:22:00 - [12] - Quote Lumber Jackie wrote: W3370Pi4 is a ****** why do pay 150M for a mistake? OR now after 1st january we need to pay 25M to be accepted to new bulk trading mailing list? some one needs to create a new mailinglist for trading,and runs it without paying a fee Who's stopping you ? We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
sYnc Vir Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession 427	Posted - 2012.12.28 15:27:00 - [13] - Quote This is like the dumbest thread ever. The guys an idiot for banning people and asking for 150m sure, your a massive idiot if you pay. Just make a new alt and rejoin for free ffs. Given how easy it is to be banned. Make a couple on free slots and give no fucks. Also maybe as a out of the box idea, next time follow the rules. Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Dorabel Lighthammer The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.28 15:50:00 - [14] - Quote happened to me as well, wanted100 mil
Ravenclaw2kk Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 18	Posted - 2012.12.28 15:56:00 - [15] - Quote The irony is, you have given them a bit of free publicity. People who hadn't previously heard of the bulk mailing list will prolly be signing up now
Dorabel Lighthammer The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.28 16:00:00 - [16] - Quote Ravenclaw2kk wrote: The irony is, you have given them a bit of free publicity. People who hadn't previously heard of the bulk mailing list will prolly be signing up now That may be true, but it is bringing awareness to the community here of someone trying to cash in. If you get banned dont pay, just like the rest of us. i think that is the general point of this thread.
Khalessi Khagah Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.28 16:16:00 - [17] - Quote flakeys wrote: Lumber Jackie wrote: W3370Pi4 is a ****** why do pay 150M for a mistake? OR now after 1st january we need to pay 25M to be accepted to new bulk trading mailing list? some one needs to create a new mailinglist for trading,and runs it without paying a fee Who's stopping you ? Well that's not a bad idea. and i had a thought of starting one myself. However i think it would be better if someone with a good reputation started one up. Like VV, or grendall, or chirriba, or they captain planet combine there powers and start one up. i think there is a need for a reputable trade channel, from someone who isn't so needing of isk. Truth is i wouldn't have an issue paying a small fee to join, as it does take time to operate such a project. As long as the operator was a reputable person, the rules aren't so draconian, and if your banned your done. No cash back in if you lose.
flakeys Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition 696	Posted - 2012.12.28 17:13:00 - [18] - Quote Khalessi Khagah wrote: flakeys wrote: Lumber Jackie wrote: W3370Pi4 is a ****** why do pay 150M for a mistake? OR now after 1st january we need to pay 25M to be accepted to new bulk trading mailing list? some one needs to create a new mailinglist for trading,and runs it without paying a fee Who's stopping you ? Well that's not a bad idea. and i had a thought of starting one myself. However i think it would be better if someone with a good reputation started one up. Like VV, or grendall, or chirriba, or they captain planet combine there powers and start one up. i think there is a need for a reputable trade channel, from someone who isn't so needing of isk. Truth is i wouldn't have an issue paying a small fee to join, as it does take time to operate such a project. As long as the operator was a reputable person, the rules aren't so draconian, and if your banned your done. No cash back in if you lose. I never used the mailing list myself.So that said i have never herd of the guy running it.So why would someone with reputation like VV , grendell or chribba who allready have their hands full on stuff do it? Start a channel , promote it and see where it goes. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Khalessi Khagah Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.28 17:49:00 - [19] - Quote Lumber Jackie wrote: I never used the mailing list myself.So that said i have never herd of the guy running it.So why would someone with reputation like VV , grendell or chribba who allready have their hands full on stuff do it? Start a channel , promote it and see where it goes. I would consider it if it would generate support.
Grombutz Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens 45	Posted - 2012.12.28 18:51:00 - [20] - Quote OP, here is a hint. It is not his fault, it is yours.

Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 3530	Posted - 2012.12.29 11:32:00 - [21] - Quote flakeys wrote: I never used the mailing list myself.So that said i have never herd of the guy running it.So why would someone with reputation like VV , grendell or chribba who allready have their hands full on stuff do it? Start a channel , promote it and see where it goes. I'd like to add something to Flakey's post, mostly aimed at the person he replied to. One point in common between me, Grendell and Chribba is the attempt at being able to engage in many activities. Because brain wants to create content! I wish I had an army of "executors" to make real what I envisioned. I even got contacted by another MMO dev to help write a new client! One life is not enough. In order to engage in many activities we need to make the activities easily pre-empted (= easily stopped and resumed) and little time consuming. Managing chats is not the most light task, because offenders may crop up any time, policing should happen within certain acceptable time frames and so on. So, Chribba and Grendell already have to manage their own chats, it's unlikely they may also add another chat where the possibility to have to deal with scammers and policy offenders is quite tangible. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
W3370Pi4 Comel Technology 84	Posted - 2012.12.29 12:04:00 - [22] - Quote that was entertaining lol on a scale of 1 to 10 i would say 8.5 Gÿà Join the "Bulk trade" Mailing list - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bulk_Trade_%28Mailing_list%29 ________________________________________ GåÆGÿà Join the "Legit Trading" Channel - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Legit_Trading GåÉGÿà
Kaanchana 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 183	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:30:00 - [23] - Quote op, quit being a whiner. Its his service. you are not entitled to anything. If u want to use it then pay the fine and quit bitching. If not, start your own and see how it is. He can charge you a billion tomorrow and you will have to pay if its worth it to u. Its neither your service nor is it bound to provide your whiney ass with free service for all time. You are playing eve after all.
Tul Breetai Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud. 135	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:44:00 - [24] - Quote Zoltan Lazar wrote: They run a service. If you use that service wrong, it's their rules you need to follow. ^this. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
shar'ra matcevsovski white knightess 302	Posted - 2012.12.30 11:42:00 - [25] - Quote Kaanchana wrote: op, quit being a whiner. Its his service. you are not entitled to anything. If u want to use it then pay the fine and quit bitching. If not, start your own and see how it is. He can charge you a billion tomorrow and you will have to pay if its worth it to u. Its neither your service nor is it bound to provide your whiney ass with free service for all time. You are playing eve after all. you say so many words to say so little, Capt. Philosophy Boost T2 BPO`s!
W3370Pi4 Comel Technology 90	Posted - 2012.12.30 11:57:00 - [26] - Quote Please rage some more this is good advertising ________________________________________ GåÆGÿà Join the "Legit Trading" Channel - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Legit_Trading GåÉGÿà
Kara Books Deal with IT. 304	Posted - 2012.12.31 20:52:00 - [27] - Quote I didnt like the mailing list much, resale of purchased goods is more of a pain then a positive. P.S. Id like to get onto the ban list please!
W3370Pi4 Comel Technology 91	Posted - 2012.12.31 20:53:00 - [28] - Quote you just leave on your own ________________________________________ GåÆGÿà Join the "Legit Trading" Channel - http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Legit_Trading GåÉGÿà
Cyrvys en Distel Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:04:00 - [29] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Samroski wrote: The main lesson to learn is that Eve is a harsh universe. Empathy is equally sparsely distributed. Any other forums, and OP may have come across some. Our attitude is: adapt or die. Those who survive may enjoy a long and bright future :) More on topic: Notwithstanding minor ethical issues in list management policy and in the described interaction, OP does not have a case. OP has my empathy as she appears to be a genuine new player. In case OP decides to pay the fine, I offer to contribute 50% (directly to the list manger on OP's behalf). I have an idea! Make the fines be paid to an unrelated entity so there's no conflict of interest. Avoiding myself a conflict of interest, I could suggest the ISK could be sent to Chribba's VAERT sister fund. There is no conflict of interest here. You break the rules in the town you are currently in, you pay the fine to that town. You don't pay the fine to a town fifty miles down the road. You don't pay the fine to Children's Miracle Network. You pay the fine to the town that you broke the rules of. No matter what society, group, organization, township, country, whatever, you join, there will be rule to follow, and penalties for breaking them. If there were no penalties for breaking rules, then there are no rules. Lesson Learned: Follow Rules or HTFU
shar'ra matcevsovski white knightess 306	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:06:00 - [30] - Quote W3370Pi4 wrote: you just leave on your own like me ;) Boost T2 BPO`s!



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