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Amelia Torez
Tolero Guard
22
   |
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
This article was first published on the blog of the Tolero Guard, located here.
A serious discussion is most definitely welcome, both for and against. However trolling will be completely ignored (and I encourage others to ignore trolling too).
In defence of AFK mining
The problem with the war on AFK mining is the line which defines what AFK mining and BOT mining actually is seems to have been blurred, whether intentionally or not. The reality is that they are two completely separate things and AFK mining is a perfectly acceptable practice in Eve. In this article, IGÇÖll delve into why that is.
LetGÇÖs start by having a look at what Eve is. In the most simplest of words, itGÇÖs a sandbox that allows you to play whichever way you like. To further that though, that also allows other capsuleers to play however they like, which is what makes this game so interesting.
The important thing to note is, Eve has been tailored to accommodate all playing types. If you have a look at some of the features, such as the ability for skills to be trained and industry to churn even when you arenGÇÖt logged in is evidence that this game is specifically tailored for people who cannot be at the keyboard 23/7.
That is not to say that people who want to spend more time logged in will not receive further benefit for their time GÇô that is certainly not the case. Those who want to devote more time to the game are rewarded for doing that just.
But the bottom line is, CCP has put the tools in place to allow you to play anyway you like and that specifically includes being away from the keyboard.
Now, onto AFK mining.
For some reason, many vocal members of the Eve community find being away from your keyboard for a few minutes or more as being tantamount to the destruction of Eve. The reality is much different GÇô this ability to be away from the keyboard and still progress is what makes Eve such an accessible game.
Let me give you a few examples I have personally come across recently in Eve:
A mother of two young children GÇô who happens to enjoy the company and companionship offered by the Eve community. However, her duties within her home donGÇÖt allow her to remain at the keyboard for extended periods.
A university student GÇô who enjoys making a passive income mining asteroids semi-afk while completing their studies.
New players GÇô ItGÇÖs no secret that the learning curve of Eve is one of the harshest of any online game (as evidenced by the hugely popular image here). This steep learning curve requires many new players to do an awful lot of reading which while technically not AFK, requires them to be looking at other windows.
Traders GÇô Traders spend an awful long time working on spreadsheets, calculating margins and working out where best to spend their ISK. Is there any harm in them making a passive income mining while they are doing this?
If you have a look at a few of the features that CCP has implemented, such a mining lasers that continue until the asteroid depletes and increasing the ore hold of mining vessels it is evident that CCP is trying to cater to all types of game play. On the flip side, the introduction of mining crystals, fleet boosts and so on also shows that they are actively rewarding people who spend more time at the keyboard.
The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. Why would they bother logging into a game full of people who want to bully them out of existence? A game where trolls run rampant and take enjoyment in ruining the game play for these people?
While itGÇÖs completely understandable that with Eve being a sandbox, this makes that kind of bullying a side effect.
It may be worth considering GÇô those kinds of actions are encouraging new and casual players to rethink investing their free time and money on Eve and without those casual gamers, the Eve universe would fall apart.
Are the "minerbumpers" starting to annoy you? Are you ready to take them down?
More information at www.ToleroGuard.com. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1754
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience.
If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant.
I started a blog thing http://mallakazaria.blogspot.com.au |
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
443
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
I lol'd. 5/10 |
Pyre leFay
The Scope
Gallente Federation
267
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Amelia Torez wrote:Why would they bother logging into a game full of people who want to bully them out of existence?
Because it's not a game. It's a funded psychoanalytic study of the human condition. We all happen to suffer from digital masochism. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2455
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant.
Like an AFK cloaker can't attack you, but an afk miner can be mining.
We need to nerf local !
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Rain6637
Team Evil
215
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
that word
i do not think it is spelled the way you think it is spelled
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Buckingham Buckingham is my Vanilla Sky ||-áVincent Athena, I made something for you: http://i.imgur.com/hrxcc.jpg |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
304
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant.
But moon mining is ok to have AFK right? 
wumbo |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2455
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 04:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant. But moon mining is ok to have AFK right?
Yes we afk when the enemy comes to siege it.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
304
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 05:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Eli Green wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant. But moon mining is ok to have AFK right? Yes we afk when the enemy comes to siege it.
If you still have enemies it's a sign you don't have enough blues 
wumbo |
Pyre leFay
The Scope
Gallente Federation
267
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 05:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:But moon mining is ok to have AFK right?
Different mechanics, different problems. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1754
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 05:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant. But moon mining is ok to have AFK right?
I take it you've never had to keep 100 Tech moon towers fueled. You should talk to the guys that do it & they'll tell you all about how it's far from being an AFK activity.
I started a blog thing http://mallakazaria.blogspot.com.au |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2475
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 05:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Eli Green wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant. But moon mining is ok to have AFK right? I take it you've never had to keep 100 Tech moon towers fueled. You should talk to the guys that do it & they'll tell you all about how it's far from being an AFK activity.
Don't, you might traumatize them. Maybe after the tech has been fully nerfed and we unchain them from the jump freighters...
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Wescro
Knights of the New Order
25
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 05:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Amelia Torez wrote:
A university student GÇô who enjoys making a passive income mining asteroids semi-afk while completing their studies.
Traders GÇô Traders spend an awful long time working on spreadsheets, calculating margins and working out where best to spend their ISK. Is there any harm in them making a passive income mining while they are doing this?
If you're a smart trader, you know not to put your shiny mining vessel at risk of being ganked while you're updating your orders. I know I don't. The extra 5m an hour is a pittance compared to what a semi-casual trader can make docked in a station at no risk of being ganked.
Mining simultaneously while trading is a waste, it's risky and makes very little ISK. It is one of those quintessentially "good on paper" ideas that you realize is bad once you actually do it. Park your mining ship, and trade. Or if your trading skills suck, stop trading and go mine while they train.
Also, I'm a university student. I don't do missions or low sec roams while I'm studying because those activities require attention and pose an inherent risk. You treat high-sec mining like there is no inherent risk. Would you afk drive a car? A plane? Of course not, you have to pay attention. You aren't invincible in high-sec you know?
This isn't about afk mining as much as it is about clinging on to the false notion that you are invincible in high-sec and concord will always protect you. I can safely say most high-sec miners haven't even seen concord swoop in, ever. They just believe it will happen instantly and that they are perfectly safe, because "hey, all these other miners are here, if they think its safe it must be safe for me too, right?"
All this tolero business is a joke, you don't want to get ganked? Fit a tank, orbit your ice, move to a quieter, higher security system, keep an eye on local and warp out if you suspect you are at risk. Don't whine and complain here. Go and actually play the game, instead of afk mining while posting here. The problem is with the miner, not the ganker. |
Ryuji Takemiya
Omni Tech Industries
Initiative Associates
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 05:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
AFK Mining isn't sexy, but if you have a family or other real life distractions going on and you need your EVE fix... that's about the only defense against Wife Agro.
In a situation like that I'll go park myself somewhere quiet in High Sec so at least I don't get any corpmates killed if I have to step away to deal with life. The life without spaceships.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2493
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wescro wrote:This isn't about afk mining as much as it is about clinging on to the false notion that you are invincible in high-sec and concord will always protect you. I can safely say most high-sec miners haven't even seen concord swoop in, ever. They just believe it will happen instantly and that they are perfectly safe, because "hey, all these other miners are here, if they think its safe it must be safe for me too, right?
But.. but CONCORD promised they would be there for me~~
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think we can see that AFK mining is the wrong way to play the game, it was never intended by the devs as one of the sandbox activities and should be removed poste haste, preferably by banning the perpetrators
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2499
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zol Interbottom wrote:I think we can see that AFK mining is the wrong way to play the game, it was never intended by the devs as one of the sandbox activities and should be removed poste haste, preferably by banning the perpetrators
If anything, I'd say they were encouraging it by making AFKing easier and safer.
AFK mining is the basis of our whole industrial capability, we must never nerf it.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
474
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
EVE would be a very different game if minerals were like moon goo and our SP simply determined how much we could extract per cycle in a passive mining system. With Null offering better yields, allowing for more ships to be made.
That bridge was burned long ago though. I agree, mining is like watching paint dry and anyone who thinks mining ATK is "playing the game" has rocks in their head. |
Zol Interbottom
Nanotrasen Inc
29
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Zol Interbottom wrote:I think we can see that AFK mining is the wrong way to play the game, it was never intended by the devs as one of the sandbox activities and should be removed poste haste, preferably by banning the perpetrators If anything, I'd say they were encouraging it by making AFKing easier and safer. AFK mining is the basis of our whole industrial capability, we must never nerf it.
AFK mining is clearly against the very tenants of EVE, this isnt a casual game, if you arnt spending 14 hours a day playing EVE you are playing wrong
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1500
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Amelia Torez wrote:
It may be worth considering GÇô those kinds of actions are encouraging new and casual players to rethink investing their free time and money on Eve and without those casual gamers, the Eve universe would fall apart.
You spent many words on explaining why it's nice for these people from their perspective to be able to play a game AFK, and in the end you present this "conclusion", completely opposite to your previous arguments.
It's their loss, not ours.
I tried to remove this sig. |
Ghazu
402
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
AFK dudes are much easier to gank, is all.
http://www.minerbumping.com/
lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
enterprisePSI
155
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 06:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Great holy armies shall be gathered and trained to fight all who embrace evil.
In the name of the gods, ships shall be built to carry our warriors out amongst the stars and we will spread The New Order to all the unbelievers.
The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi-¬
I made tweet, Y U NO FOLLOW!!! |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
201
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 07:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Amelia Torez wrote:For some reason, many vocal members of the Eve community find being away from your keyboard for a few minutes or more as being tantamount to the destruction of Eve. The reality is much different GÇô this ability to be away from the keyboard and still progress is what makes Eve such an accessible game.
This is bs and you know it.
Everyone is fine with you doing afk whatever you want. You can go afk in this game as much as you are prepared to pay the afk bill. But please do not come here on the forums crying because you chose to make an easy target of yourself, an easy prey for anyone coming along.
You want to go afk? Fine. Take the risk for this decision and stand up to your choices. Use a cheap retriever, if you cannot afford to lose an exhumer.
Gankers and bumpers could even start roleplaying and pretend they were some crazy environmentalists fighting for the poor defenseless roids in space. That they would blow you up or extort you because you're harrassing, griefing these beautiful helpless belts out in deep space. Would this help to make you feel better?
But the simple truth is that "do not make yourself an easy target" is one of the basic rules in EVE, besides "do not fly what you cannot afford to loose". If you do, suck it up, embrace it even, buy another ship and try to learn something from it. Do erveything you can, to let someone else look like the juicy target in this beautiful, but cold and harsh universe CCP created for us.
And please stop thinking of Highsec as being safe. It is not. |
Dana Skord
Lapse Of Sanity
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 07:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Like Tolero Guard, I have decided to wage war on the New Order, hopeless a task as this may seem.
We will be working together on Plans that are too Top Secret to disclose in this forum.
However, if you have been harmed by the New Order and their mighty bumpers and gankers, you can help the surely doomed rebellion against them by sending me isk directly. |
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
175
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 07:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Amelia Torez wrote:
It may be worth considering GÇô those kinds of actions are encouraging new and casual players to rethink investing their free time and money on Eve and without those casual gamers, the Eve universe would fall apart.
It might also be worth considering that forcing the newbie with civilian mining laser to compete with with 23/7 AFK bot-aspirant in semi-invulnerable t2 mining ship might be unreasonable.
It might even make them rethink investing their free time and money on Eve. |
Hannah Flex
Elite Market PvP Consortium
14
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 07:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant.
I dont see how this thread can go much farther  |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1756
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 08:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zol Interbottom wrote:I think we can see that AFK mining is the wrong way to play the game, it was never intended by the devs as one of the sandbox activities and should be removed poste haste, preferably by banning the perpetrators
Why ban half of highsec when they could just make mining turrets not auto-repeat?
I started a blog thing http://mallakazaria.blogspot.com.au |
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
622
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 08:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
You can't AFK mine in High-sec for any length of time and that is a simple fact.
You can get normally 1 or 2 cycles (3 if your lucky) before you have to switch roids cause they are depleted.
Which means player interaction and therefore they are not AFK.
Now Ice mining, that you can do AFK.
But to be honest ICe mining and distrobutions missions are my definition of punishment.
And besides that is what they make gankers for right ?
So unless you are in Null or are mining ICE in High-sec you can't be AFK.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1191
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 08:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant.
Do you never go afk while a fleet is forming up?
Both are a long boring process and both have people go afk.
Well ok I don't AFK mine I don't use macks but anyway on with the show.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1756
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 08:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Amelia Torez wrote:The problem with the constant warfare on AFK miners is that itGÇÖs starting to make the game unplayable for those who want a more casual experience. If they're AFK then they aren't actually playing the game, making your entire argument irrelevant. Do you never go afk while a fleet is forming up? Both are a long boring process and both have people go afk. Well ok I don't AFK mine I don't use macks but anyway on with the show.
If I'm AFK, I'm either docked or sitting in a cloaked ship. Neither of those reward me for being AFK.
The Adventures of a Belligerent Undesirable |
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