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Kery Nysell
Nysell Incorporated
41
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Posted - 2012.12.30 16:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Yes, there are Elite Frigates in those missions ... takes my drones a bit longer to munch on them, that's how I recognize them when they're not Dire Guristas ...
Yes, I fly a BS, Navy Scorpion to be precise, so that might be a better source of aggro too.
Never tried L5s, but I hear those are "fleet missions", so I'd think that the aggro will switch between players anyway ... will have to try, some friends are trying to mount a fleet for that.
Oh, and I tested my "painter method" in L3s with my Drake (with HAMs), my Light Drones kill the Elite Frigs/normal frigs while I pound on the cruisers/BCs ...
In L2s and L1s, I use an Algos, a drone boat, and I don't loose my drones either, without a painter this time ... but with a +50% HP bonus on my drones (yes, Destroyers 5).
But against Tracking Disruption, I admit that I have problems with the few turret boats that I fly, yes. |
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2012.12.30 16:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kery Nysell wrote:dexington wrote:Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers.
Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. We don't have the same experience then. I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works.
I have always used TPs. Still my drones sometimes get aggroed, sometimes they don't.
I can't really tell if the TPs are actually affecting the rat's behavior. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
352
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 16:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
Akuma Tsukai wrote:Specially for an inbred imbecile under the name of Barrogh Habalu:
In case you blind this is caracal. Which is no wonder considering screen was taken in blood 3/10, it have 5 pockets such as this. Now go and rewrite all the idiocity you typed once again. Those screen just demontrate current impossibility of much PVE content by turret ships. And soon by any missile ship too.
Sorry, my bad, got a bit used to L4 runners complaining about these changes - and I, as you've noticed, don't agree that L4s in particular got hurt that much.
Maybe I'll rewrite that thing when I come up with something. The thing is, I don't believe in QQing to CCP, and even if they step up, that will happen around spring at best. Gotta live 'till the moment somehow. Tbh I expect them to suggest you to get friends (read: more alts) to beat that instead of actually changing something about rats.
Fun part is that Caracal will probably be able to solo some of these plexes even after TD+missiles change due to the fact that it shoots past 80 km and hits 1700 m/s before perfect skills and respective mods/rigs. What turret cruisers will do - I have no idea so far; but it's not the first time we see this little problem called "medium missiles vs medium guns in PvE".
In case people figure out how threat accumulation works, maybe droneboats will also do the trick. I'll probably go and try to do some testing, and let you know if I find something...
... meanie  |
Funky Lazers
Shin-Ra Ltd
178
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 17:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
For some reason I think there is no "threat" mechanic at all. CCP didn't say anything about it.
I think there is just a random/scripted event happends when you shoot at rats and they have a chance to change their target.
Whatever. |
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
181
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 19:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is insane to be honest.
I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
353
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 20:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
After doing several complexes (I must admit those aren't anything worth a damn - drone 3/10 and a few Sansha lookouts) using droneboat with TP (some meta 3 TP I found in my junk storage) I've only got one case of rats aggroing drones, and those were rats stuck in deribs and such and for some reason refusing to target me even though there was nothing else for them to shoot and I was sitting right in fromt of them.
What I did is drawing initial aggro with whatever I could use this way (TP, guns etc) and then launched drones the same way I did before - after getting targeted by whatever is going to aggress at all at this point. For convinience I was painting the same enemy all the time, killing it last.
Now I must admit that obviously I haven't encountered a single elite frig, so my tests are far from being over.
Spc One wrote:This is insane to be honest.
I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.
It's not a mission on those screenshots. Speaking of missions, I haven't checked L2 and L3 missions, but I haven't heard of problems in those. When I was doing them (a long time ago), EWAR rats were generally limited to some special characters and the like. I wonder if that got changed. |
Knorkor
Ministry of Silly Walk
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 22:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tell me about it. As a gallentean I have the same problem with Serpentis and dampening. Especially in The Blockade.
Can't target anything outside 10km, Drones get shot down while munching on the dampers because you can't generate aggro.
That really needs some rebalancing imho. And shooting cruisers or frigs within 10km with a Battleship is hard. Unless you get a very lucky shot, nearly impossible.
The joy of drones has been that you could take down the dampeners and tracking disrupters without a problem.
Now with the new anti drone AI, that is gone and ECM in missions became a problem. It is not like you can't tank it, but I am afraid it might lead to a scenario where you can't target anything, your drones gone and you are scrambled.
This should never happen. |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 04:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Well when TD affect missiles, it might be time to move to Minmatar space. Course ccp might change angels e-war to something nasty...
I have found that some missions my drones are attacked on sight, other missions the drones are never targeted, it could be the mission or just random or who knows. I run with two target painters. |
Fireflyb1
Walden 2.0
17
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 06:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Spc One wrote:This is insane to be honest. I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.
That's not a mission, it's a complex.. just saying; that complex has a ridiculously high amount of TD'ing frigs, and afaik, most missions don't have that kind of TD EWAR.. but I haven't done lvl 4's in a while, not sure.. |
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 09:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
And new fotm is.. Smartbomb tengu.. Anyone?  |
Saint Spark
Viziam
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 11:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tracking Disruptors - it's terrible. Playing for 6-7 years, trained everything in gunnery, drones. And now, my paladin is flying with 10km optimal (T2 Beams with Radio Lens) because 5-10 TD frigates/crusers jamming me, and drones can't kill anyone.  What is wrong with me?
PS: sorry for terrible english.
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Rain6636
Team Evil
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 15:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP is trying to make micro jump drives happen. or something. i'm just gonna dock for a year or two and see what's changed later.
keep this article in mind, it's about the price of salvage http://evenews24.com/2012/12/19/jesters-trek-week-in-the-life-trips/ |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1046
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 19:56:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP only makes mistakes after they've been fixed. Every NPC distrupting you isn't a bug... it's a FEATURE.
On a side note, I've rebounded into T2 Blaster or Rail Gallente boats with either TE or TC and haven't really been having any issues. Played with a Nighthawk, but I honestly found it kinda boring. Just fit a T2 Rail Deimos this morning before work, so I'll be playing with it in L3's here after work.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
743
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 20:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Saint Spark wrote:Tracking Disruptors - it's terrible. Playing for 6-7 years, trained everything in gunnery, drones. And now, my paladin is flying with 10km optimal (T2 Beams with Radio Lens) because 5-10 TD frigates/crusers jamming me, and drones can't kill anyone. What is wrong with me? PS: sorry for terrible english.
This
"That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm
GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
303
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 21:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kery Nysell wrote:1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you.
2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive.
3) Watch the frig swarm melt.
4) ?????
5) Profit !
And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts.
OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!!
In actual practice, this procedure only works sometimes. Try this strategy in Mordus Folly 1 of 2. You will be swarmed, webbed and scrammed before you "melt the swarm" - you can't kill enough of them before they close in. If that happens, you have to sacrifice drones to whack the scramming frigs and flee to repair. Or maybe I just suck at EvE.
Additionally, even dual TPs on my tengu won't hold aggro. I've said this since the test phase. Gaining aggro is not hard. Holding aggro is the hard part.
The double whammy of new NPC AI and HM nerf make tgings much more difficult. And now I hear that TD will affect missiles "soon". Just great - a triple whammy for HM boats.
( not spell checked ) |
Kery Nysell
Nysell Incorporated
55
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 21:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:
In actual practice, this procedure only works sometimes. Try this strategy in Mordus Folly 1 of 2. You will be swarmed, webbed and scrammed before you "melt the swarm" - you can't kill enough of them before they close in. If that happens, you have to sacrifice drones to whack the scramming frigs and flee to repair. Or maybe I just suck at EvE.
Additionally, even dual TPs on my tengu won't hold aggro. I've said this since the test phase. Gaining aggro is not hard. Holding aggro is the hard part.
The double whammy of new NPC AI and HM nerf make things much more difficult. And now I hear that TD will affect missiles "soon". Just great - a triple whammy for HM boats.
( not spell checked )
From what I can find on the web, there's only 3 Frigates and 5 Cruisers in the first wave of that mission, plus 5 more Cruisers in the third wave ... the rest are Battleships, staged in several waves ...
I fail to see the problem for a properly tanked BS in that mission, honestly.
Frankly, I don't see the appeal of the Tengu ... it's a Cruiser, a very versatile one indeed, but still a Cruiser, it doesn't have the tank nor the punch for L4 missions, in my humble opinion. |
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 02:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:CCP only makes mistakes after they've been fixed. Every NPC distrupting you isn't a bug... it's a FEATURE. On a side note, I've rebounded into T2 Blaster or Rail Gallente boats with either TE or TC and haven't really been having any issues. Played with a Nighthawk, but I honestly found it kinda boring. Just fit a T2 Rail Deimos this morning before work, so I'll be playing with it in L3's here after work.
Thought id share something i posted about the unholy amount of Sensor Damp ewar here as well. It just seems quite over the top since expansion. Not terribly fun anymore.
Sgt LoveDragon wrote:I was just doing a little exploration in tengu. Ran a Minor serpentis annex. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Minor_Serpentis_AnnexOn average i had 12 sensor damps on me for the duration of the site(which took an extra 20minutes longer than it should have). At max that I noticed it was 18 SD's. This stuck my range down to about 12-13km. The 3-4 scramblers/webbers hit me from 20-6km. Once i was in range to be able to lock these guys the locking time was over 30 seconds. Ill probably stick a sensor boost on for next one. But this seems a bit excessive. |
PavlikX
Shadows of the Day
HeII Gate Alliance
35
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Posted - 2013.01.01 09:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP goes insane!
What tracking disruption to the missiles, who have no rotatable launching platform (cruise, torpedoes and higher)
Rework models then
Why we can not get simple solution to this mes - each TD (or dump and so on) npc can do this only one time. |
Grombutz
Treasures Collectors
Solar Citizens
49
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 16:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rain6636 wrote:
-+=the stupidly overpowered ewar is what makes scorpions so hated in PVP=+-
Fixed that for you.
E-War is borked (ECM, Dampening and disruption), and it really needs diminishing returns, period.
As one of these posters in here mentioned allready, there should never be a point where you are locked out of everything permanently, and a DR would fix this.
Imagine you could fly a Scorpion without beeing alpha'ed because you are not an insane thread which can take out logis to the point of uselessness anymore. But yeah, we are talking about CCP, so they will refuse to change it anyway :D |
Brent Oskold
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.01.03 02:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
162
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 03:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion.
What does CCP care about people using PLEX for game time? It doesn't matter to them. They've been paid, by somebody, either way. They have no incentive to cut down it. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
277
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 03:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Huh, for turrets this is a problem for missiles even heavy missiles this shouldn't be that big of a deal. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 04:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Huh, for turrets this is a problem for missiles even heavy missiles this shouldn't be that big of a deal.
If/when the TD/TE/TC changes come for missiles it will become very relevant for missile ships. |
Ember Klahan
Procyon Resources
Honey Badger Coalition
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.03 19:22:00 -
[54] - Quote
Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion.
I don't follow the reasoning here. EVE is doing better than it ever has in terms of subscribers (iirc), and every time someone plays to pay, someone else already paid CCP for that month. Usually at a better rate than they would get with a subscription payment.
As far as this thread goes, I too am annoyed with NPC ewar. I don't like NPC ewar at all, really; I don't see much of a point besides it just being an annoyance, given the current PvE philosophy of the game. My solution for making PvE more like PvP is to have us engage many fewer much more powerful NPCs (ewar enabled, realistic fits and dps) who have significantly higher bounties and better salvage. Seems like it would be a lot more fun. |
Saint Spark
Viziam
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.04 15:47:00 -
[55] - Quote
Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion.
CCP is doing the great thing - they pull out gamers into real world ))) |
Batelle
Aliastra
108
|
Posted - 2013.01.04 18:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion.
idiot.
[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65340[/url] |
Mund Richard
231
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 15:00:00 -
[57] - Quote
Akuma Tsukai wrote:P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too
Player TDs, or NPC ones as well?
If they change the NPC TD, I hope they look at the rest of the EWAR that was changed over the years.
Heck, maybe also (Citadel) Torps and the like...
Would be too good.
Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship...
Infested Domi!
Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets. |
Dr Darknipples
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 15:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot.
Even bigger idiot |
goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
171
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 15:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dr Darknipples wrote:Batelle wrote:Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot. Even bigger idiot
If you own a restaurant and 5 customers come in to eat (Play game) and pay for their meals with cash (subscription) you make money. If the next night 5 customers come in and pay with gift certificates (PLEX) you still made money the only difference is that the gift certificate (PLEX) money was in your wallet when the certificate was purchased, not when the meal was made. Your Restaurant (CCP) made the same money regardless.
Actually in most cases gift certificates give a discount for paying in advance PLEXGÇÖes actually cost more than subscriptions so in effect CCP makes more from PLEX than they do from subscription, so if your supposition was correct then CCP should be buffing PVE in order to promote PLEX sales rather than nerfing it causing limited ISK to exchange for game time.
For your own safety and those around you, remove the tinfoil hat.
Reason and logic never wins over Stubborn and Convinced-á (But-áI still try..) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1198
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 16:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
goldiiee wrote:Dr Darknipples wrote:Batelle wrote:Brent Oskold wrote:CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot. Even bigger idiot If you own a restaurant and 5 customers come in to eat (Play game) and pay for their meals with cash (subscription) you make money. If the next night 5 customers come in and pay with gift certificates (PLEX) you still made money the only difference is that the gift certificate (PLEX) money was in your wallet when the certificate was purchased, not when the meal was made. Your Restaurant (CCP) made the same money regardless. Actually in most cases gift certificates give a discount for paying in advance PLEXGÇÖes actually cost more than subscriptions so in effect CCP makes more from PLEX than they do from subscription, so if your supposition was correct then CCP should be buffing PVE in order to promote PLEX sales rather than nerfing it causing limited ISK to exchange for game time. For your own safety and those around you, remove the tinfoil hat.
You live up to your sig with this post. Well done.
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