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Akuma Tsukai 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2012.12.30 03:47:00 - [1] - Quote CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 171	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:10:00 - [2] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Yeah, when this happends I'm gonna move my other chars out of Amarr space. Whatever.
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 449	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:29:00 - [3] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Troll or real? I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan... GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Rain6635 Team Evil 32	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:53:00 - [4] - Quote I've only heard that it is real.
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 114	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:54:00 - [5] - Quote dexington wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Troll or real? I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan... It's real. It was ment to come in Retribution, but CCP pulled it so people could adapt to missile changes. Of course, the upside of it will be that TCs and TEs will affect missiles as well. And ye, those stacked TDs tend to be a bit on the insane side at times. Once missiles get affected by it, I guess the best way to deal with it will be drones (more targets for EW and more independant dps).
Gal'o Sengen State War Academy Caldari State 58	Posted - 2012.12.30 11:28:00 - [6] - Quote Caitlyn Tufy wrote: And ye, those stacked TDs tend to be a bit on the insane side at times. Once missiles get affected by it, I guess the best way to deal with it will be drones (more targets for EW and more independant dps). More likely people will just abandon Amarr space unless it gets toned down. The AI change wasn't bad by itself, the problem is Drones are in desperate need of a complete and equivalent overhaul themselves. Personally I'd love to see a system similar to the way Gambits worked in Final Fantasy XII applied to Drones along with some pretty significant UI improvements.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 351	Posted - 2012.12.30 12:30:00 - [7] - Quote OP's problem is not TDs (obviously), but amount of frigates his Cruise missiles can't hit for s*** and his drones getting killed. Unfortunately, missle boats is kind of mission running hardware I can't come up with good solution for. The thing is, NPC EWAR in missions is very easy to outrange by using MJD, SeBo and maybe some range mods (probably it's 5th time I state this on these boards within last 24 hours), then destroying anything with any kind of EWAR you don't like with long-range ammo. This also solves the problem of anything small - "improved" approach-F1-screw-angular rat AI ftw, though only gunboats and droneboats work for that well (the only problem is that Wardens and Bouncers are your long-range drones, and their damage type isn't stellar against Sansha and BR we seem to be talking about at the moment, but oh well). Missile boats, on the other hand, just don't have anything to destroy swarming frigates. Sure, things like Navy Raven could take 3 sentries and a flight of light drones and use those sentries on approach against frigs, but then they'll be doing DPS of said flight of light drones, if not less, and it's just not enough to take out elite frigs in anything resembling timely manner, not to be said about drone control range issue it will face. Sure, you can do like some dedicated mission runners I met who have like 4 ships just to run different missions with optimal speed, but IMO it kills entire purpose of running missions. While ISK/hour may be good, imagine the time it takes to get and fit all those mission boats. I don't think it will pay off fast enough. Unless your goal is collecting mission boats ofc. I don't know if Tengu is correct answer to that if you would like to keep using missiles. Sure, it's not really an optimal ship, but maybe it'll still be faster than using BS missile platform when it somes to such frig swarms... Please, post if you have some ideas.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 12:54:00 - [8] - Quote 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!!
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 453	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:06:00 - [9] - Quote Caitlyn Tufy wrote: And ye, those stacked TDs tend to be a bit on the insane side at times. Once missiles get affected by it, I guess the best way to deal with it will be drones (more targets for EW and more independant dps). Drones can be useful, but there are a lot of other things to consider when using drones. You should also keeping mind that drones work best against non elite rats. The tracking disruptors seem to have 50km optimal and 20km falloff, you might have a better chance using a long range weapon setup. Which also have a lot of other limitations... GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 453	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:08:00 - [10] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!! Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:12:00 - [11] - Quote dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. We don't have the same experience then. I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works.
Akuma Tsukai 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 79	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:13:00 - [12] - Quote Specially for an inbred imbecile under the name of Barrogh Habalu: In case you blind this is caracal. Which is no wonder considering screen was taken in blood 3/10, it have 5 pockets such as this. Now go and rewrite all the idiocity you typed once again.
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 453	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:14:00 - [13] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. We don't have the same experience then. I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works. They changed the mechanic, nothing except ELITE frigs and cruisers will target light drones, it has nothing to do with the target painter. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:19:00 - [14] - Quote Still doesn't explain why I can do the same trick with Medium Drones against non-Elite Cruisers in missions ... but oh well.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 433	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:19:00 - [15] - Quote dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. Target Painter is an e-war module, which increases your threat level ... just saying. NPC Tackle Frigs are very vulnerable to Stasis Webbifier Target Painter T2 Precision Missiles all 3 combined means even Elite Frigs only last a few volleys Web&Paint works well with Drones too, lets them kill things faster.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 363	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:42:00 - [16] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Yup not too hard to Adapt to that, launch some drones to change the aggro, and do some killing at the same time. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 116	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:53:00 - [17] - Quote dexington wrote: They changed the mechanic, nothing except ELITE frigs and cruisers will target light drones, it has nothing to do with the target painter. Target Painter (and prolly the rest of ewar as well, though I never tried it) always protected drones from sleeper AI, recent changes have nothing to do with that.
Sgt LoveDragon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.12.30 14:53:00 - [18] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!! This does nothing , thanks for your contribution.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:01:00 - [19] - Quote Sgt LoveDragon wrote: This does nothing , thanks for your contribution. This is trolling, contributes nothing too, thanks for coming ...
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 176	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:07:00 - [20] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Yup not too hard to Adapt to that, launch some drones to change the aggro, and do some killing at the same time. Did you know when rats change aggro they still use TDs on you? Whatever.
Sgt LoveDragon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:08:00 - [21] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: Sgt LoveDragon wrote: This does nothing , thanks for your contribution. This is trolling, contributes nothing too, thanks for coming ... I certainly hope it contributes. Unless you also think Sensor boosters help against tds. I have firsthand experience trying to get aggro from npc's away from drones/fighters unlike alot of the 'contributing' posters here. Ive explained it in detail in quite a few threads. Thanks for trying to do whatever witty thing you thought you were doing anyway.
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 815	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:12:00 - [22] - Quote As someone who actually tested all these changes on the test servers with every change, i can say a TP does nothing for gaining or keeping aggro. Individual missions have different drone hate sliders, they always have.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:14:00 - [23] - Quote Sgt LoveDragon wrote: I certainly hope it contributes. Unless you also think Sensor boosters help against tds. I have firsthand experience trying to get aggro from npc's away from drones/fighters unlike alot of the 'contributing' posters here. Ive explained it in detail in quite a few threads. Thanks for trying to do whatever witty thing you thought you were doing anyway. You didn't read my posts after the first, did you ? I'm now on my 21st mission using a Target Painter to lock the aggro on me, my drones (Lights and Mediums) are totally free of aggro from the NPCs in L4 missions. Tried and tested for four days now. It works, for me and numerous others. And yes, I did a mistake with Sensor Boosters against TD's, I should have typed "Tracking Computers", but oh well, I'm not perfect ...
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 455	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:21:00 - [24] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: I'm now on my 21st mission using a Target Painter to lock the aggro on me, my drones (Lights and Mediums) are totally free of aggro from the NPCs in L4 missions. Try that in a ded site with 20 cruisers and you will see it has no effect what so ever, within seconds half the room switch to the drones if you use medium. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Coyote Reach State Protectorate Caldari State 12	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:24:00 - [25] - Quote Also confirming TP/ reps on drones does not 'gain aggro'. Or at least in time to save the little guys. Ive got 70m in dead drones and fighters to boot from experimentation. These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. Though I have not run a level 4 in months.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:25:00 - [26] - Quote I said I didn't have any experience with Complexes, on the previous page ... Reading comprehension FTW. Lucky me, I have a flame-retardant suit when I come on these forums ...
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:29:00 - [27] - Quote Coyote Reach wrote: Also confirming TP/ reps on drones does not 'gain aggro'. Or at least in time to save the little guys. Ive got 70m in dead drones and fighters to boot from experimentation. These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. Though I have not run a level 4 in months. 1) warp in. 2) get aggroed by the usual suspects. 3) start painting a random target 4) launch drones, set them to aggressive, select the first frigate/cruiser (depending on the mission), order the attack. 5) watch the hit points of my drones staying up. 6) kill BSes/BCs with my Cruise missiles. 7) recall drones when the small fry is dead. 8) warp out. Again, I have no experience of complexes, and I mostly mission against Guristas, Serpentis, Angels, Drones, Blood Raiders and Sanshas, with sometimes a Mercenaries mission. Worked for me 100% of the time.
Coyote Reach State Protectorate Caldari State 12	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:38:00 - [28] - Quote So you have no Elite frigates in these missions? There must be something different from a 4 to a 5, maybe the elite frigs. Ive tp'd before deploying in a V, gotten elite frigs scrambling me at 6-8k orbit. I deploy drones after that (light / medium) and typically if i am not right about to hit recall 1 will die when aggro suddenly switches. Another will dock with low armor or some crap even from 8k out. If my ships was not td'd so hard itself id shoot these little elites when they are far out. But i cant so i fly something with cruise missiles. As you probably know shooting elite frigates with cruises ....is less than ideal. So from what you are saying your method works fine in the level 4's. But only level 4's.
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 455	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:49:00 - [29] - Quote Coyote Reach wrote: These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. I remember reading a dev post with a comment about the target selection of the AI, and ships offensive and defensive capabilities is one factor. Battleships may just naturally gain more aggression, then cruisers and battlecruiser in the same situation. I've tried the target painter flying myrmidon and vexor, and it does nothing, the rats switch to the drones first chance they get. It may or may not work for bigger or smaller ship, but the target painter alone is no magic cure. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
stoicfaux 2157	Posted - 2012.12.30 16:07:00 - [30] - Quote dexington wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Troll or real? I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan... Original plan: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936492#post1936492 CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar -Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect: Max flight time Explosion radius and explosion velocity -Make TDs affect Missiles Tracking speed script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius Optimal range script lowers flight time Updated plan: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936476#post1936476 Quote: Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 16:08:00 - [31] - Quote Yes, there are Elite Frigates in those missions ... takes my drones a bit longer to munch on them, that's how I recognize them when they're not Dire Guristas ... Yes, I fly a BS, Navy Scorpion to be precise, so that might be a better source of aggro too. Never tried L5s, but I hear those are "fleet missions", so I'd think that the aggro will switch between players anyway ... will have to try, some friends are trying to mount a fleet for that. Oh, and I tested my "painter method" in L3s with my Drake (with HAMs), my Light Drones kill the Elite Frigs/normal frigs while I pound on the cruisers/BCs ... In L2s and L1s, I use an Algos, a drone boat, and I don't loose my drones either, without a painter this time ... but with a +50% HP bonus on my drones (yes, Destroyers 5). But against Tracking Disruption, I admit that I have problems with the few turret boats that I fly, yes.
Texty State War Academy Caldari State 38	Posted - 2012.12.30 16:17:00 - [32] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. We don't have the same experience then. I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works. I have always used TPs. Still my drones sometimes get aggroed, sometimes they don't. I can't really tell if the TPs are actually affecting the rat's behavior.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 352	Posted - 2012.12.30 16:31:00 - [33] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: Specially for an inbred imbecile under the name of Barrogh Habalu: In case you blind this is caracal. Which is no wonder considering screen was taken in blood 3/10, it have 5 pockets such as this. Now go and rewrite all the idiocity you typed once again. Those screen just demontrate current impossibility of much PVE content by turret ships. And soon by any missile ship too. Sorry, my bad, got a bit used to L4 runners complaining about these changes - and I, as you've noticed, don't agree that L4s in particular got hurt that much. Maybe I'll rewrite that thing when I come up with something. The thing is, I don't believe in QQing to CCP, and even if they step up, that will happen around spring at best. Gotta live 'till the moment somehow. Tbh I expect them to suggest you to get friends (read: more alts) to beat that instead of actually changing something about rats. Fun part is that Caracal will probably be able to solo some of these plexes even after TD+missiles change due to the fact that it shoots past 80 km and hits 1700 m/s before perfect skills and respective mods/rigs. What turret cruisers will do - I have no idea so far; but it's not the first time we see this little problem called "medium missiles vs medium guns in PvE". In case people figure out how threat accumulation works, maybe droneboats will also do the trick. I'll probably go and try to do some testing, and let you know if I find something... ... meanie
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 178	Posted - 2012.12.30 17:54:00 - [34] - Quote For some reason I think there is no "threat" mechanic at all. CCP didn't say anything about it. I think there is just a random/scripted event happends when you shoot at rats and they have a chance to change their target. Whatever.
Spc One The Chodak Void Alliance 181	Posted - 2012.12.30 19:34:00 - [35] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too This is insane to be honest. I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 353	Posted - 2012.12.30 20:02:00 - [36] - Quote After doing several complexes (I must admit those aren't anything worth a damn - drone 3/10 and a few Sansha lookouts) using droneboat with TP (some meta 3 TP I found in my junk storage) I've only got one case of rats aggroing drones, and those were rats stuck in deribs and such and for some reason refusing to target me even though there was nothing else for them to shoot and I was sitting right in fromt of them. What I did is drawing initial aggro with whatever I could use this way (TP, guns etc) and then launched drones the same way I did before - after getting targeted by whatever is going to aggress at all at this point. For convinience I was painting the same enemy all the time, killing it last. Now I must admit that obviously I haven't encountered a single elite frig, so my tests are far from being over. Spc One wrote: This is insane to be honest. I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again. It's not a mission on those screenshots. Speaking of missions, I haven't checked L2 and L3 missions, but I haven't heard of problems in those. When I was doing them (a long time ago), EWAR rats were generally limited to some special characters and the like. I wonder if that got changed.
Knorkor Ministry of Silly Walk 4	Posted - 2012.12.30 22:57:00 - [37] - Quote Tell me about it. As a gallentean I have the same problem with Serpentis and dampening. Especially in The Blockade. Can't target anything outside 10km, Drones get shot down while munching on the dampers because you can't generate aggro. That really needs some rebalancing imho. And shooting cruisers or frigs within 10km with a Battleship is hard. Unless you get a very lucky shot, nearly impossible. The joy of drones has been that you could take down the dampeners and tracking disrupters without a problem. Now with the new anti drone AI, that is gone and ECM in missions became a problem. It is not like you can't tank it, but I am afraid it might lead to a scenario where you can't target anything, your drones gone and you are scrambled. This should never happen.
Rexxorr Zero Corp Tax 2	Posted - 2012.12.31 04:06:00 - [38] - Quote Well when TD affect missiles, it might be time to move to Minmatar space. Course ccp might change angels e-war to something nasty... I have found that some missions my drones are attacked on sight, other missions the drones are never targeted, it could be the mission or just random or who knows. I run with two target painters.
Fireflyb1 Walden 2.0 17	Posted - 2012.12.31 06:25:00 - [39] - Quote Spc One wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too This is insane to be honest. I recommend ccp to revert changes to new AI ( normal rats, mission rats and complex rats) so that missions are doable again. That's not a mission, it's a complex.. just saying; that complex has a ridiculously high amount of TD'ing frigs, and afaik, most missions don't have that kind of TD EWAR.. but I haven't done lvl 4's in a while, not sure..
Keko Khaan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 105	Posted - 2012.12.31 09:55:00 - [40] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too And new fotm is.. Smartbomb tengu.. Anyone?
Saint Spark Viziam Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.12.31 11:33:00 - [41] - Quote Tracking Disruptors - it's terrible. Playing for 6-7 years, trained everything in gunnery, drones. And now, my paladin is flying with 10km optimal (T2 Beams with Radio Lens) because 5-10 TD frigates/crusers jamming me, and drones can't kill anyone. What is wrong with me? PS: sorry for terrible english.
Rain6636 Team Evil 5	Posted - 2012.12.31 15:53:00 - [42] - Quote CCP is trying to make micro jump drives happen. or something. i'm just gonna dock for a year or two and see what's changed later. keep this article in mind, it's about the price of salvage http://evenews24.com/2012/12/19/jesters-trek-week-in-the-life-trips/
Ginger Barbarella Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1046	Posted - 2012.12.31 19:56:00 - [43] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too CCP only makes mistakes after they've been fixed. Every NPC distrupting you isn't a bug... it's a FEATURE. On a side note, I've rebounded into T2 Blaster or Rail Gallente boats with either TE or TC and haven't really been having any issues. Played with a Nighthawk, but I honestly found it kinda boring. Just fit a T2 Rail Deimos this morning before work, so I'll be playing with it in L3's here after work. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac
Kiteo Hatto Equanimity Order 743	Posted - 2012.12.31 20:47:00 - [44] - Quote Saint Spark wrote: Tracking Disruptors - it's terrible. Playing for 6-7 years, trained everything in gunnery, drones. And now, my paladin is flying with 10km optimal (T2 Beams with Radio Lens) because 5-10 TD frigates/crusers jamming me, and drones can't kill anyone. What is wrong with me? PS: sorry for terrible english. This "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both.
Urgg Boolean Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 303	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:12:00 - [45] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!! In actual practice, this procedure only works sometimes. Try this strategy in Mordus Folly 1 of 2. You will be swarmed, webbed and scrammed before you "melt the swarm" - you can't kill enough of them before they close in. If that happens, you have to sacrifice drones to whack the scramming frigs and flee to repair. Or maybe I just suck at EvE. Additionally, even dual TPs on my tengu won't hold aggro. I've said this since the test phase. Gaining aggro is not hard. Holding aggro is the hard part. The double whammy of new NPC AI and HM nerf make tgings much more difficult. And now I hear that TD will affect missiles "soon". Just great - a triple whammy for HM boats. ( not spell checked )
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 55	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:50:00 - [46] - Quote Urgg Boolean wrote: In actual practice, this procedure only works sometimes. Try this strategy in Mordus Folly 1 of 2. You will be swarmed, webbed and scrammed before you "melt the swarm" - you can't kill enough of them before they close in. If that happens, you have to sacrifice drones to whack the scramming frigs and flee to repair. Or maybe I just suck at EvE. Additionally, even dual TPs on my tengu won't hold aggro. I've said this since the test phase. Gaining aggro is not hard. Holding aggro is the hard part. The double whammy of new NPC AI and HM nerf make things much more difficult. And now I hear that TD will affect missiles "soon". Just great - a triple whammy for HM boats. ( not spell checked ) From what I can find on the web, there's only 3 Frigates and 5 Cruisers in the first wave of that mission, plus 5 more Cruisers in the third wave ... the rest are Battleships, staged in several waves ... I fail to see the problem for a properly tanked BS in that mission, honestly. Frankly, I don't see the appeal of the Tengu ... it's a Cruiser, a very versatile one indeed, but still a Cruiser, it doesn't have the tank nor the punch for L4 missions, in my humble opinion.
Sgt LoveDragon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2013.01.01 02:40:00 - [47] - Quote Ginger Barbarella wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too CCP only makes mistakes after they've been fixed. Every NPC distrupting you isn't a bug... it's a FEATURE. On a side note, I've rebounded into T2 Blaster or Rail Gallente boats with either TE or TC and haven't really been having any issues. Played with a Nighthawk, but I honestly found it kinda boring. Just fit a T2 Rail Deimos this morning before work, so I'll be playing with it in L3's here after work. Thought id share something i posted about the unholy amount of Sensor Damp ewar here as well. It just seems quite over the top since expansion. Not terribly fun anymore. Sgt LoveDragon wrote: I was just doing a little exploration in tengu. Ran a Minor serpentis annex. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Minor_Serpentis_Annex On average i had 12 sensor damps on me for the duration of the site(which took an extra 20minutes longer than it should have). At max that I noticed it was 18 SD's. This stuck my range down to about 12-13km. The 3-4 scramblers/webbers hit me from 20-6km. Once i was in range to be able to lock these guys the locking time was over 30 seconds. Ill probably stick a sensor boost on for next one. But this seems a bit excessive.
PavlikX Shadows of the Day HeII Gate Alliance 35	Posted - 2013.01.01 09:44:00 - [48] - Quote CCP goes insane! What tracking disruption to the missiles, who have no rotatable launching platform (cruise, torpedoes and higher) Rework models then Why we can not get simple solution to this mes - each TD (or dump and so on) npc can do this only one time.
Grombutz Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens 49	Posted - 2013.01.01 16:47:00 - [49] - Quote Rain6636 wrote: -+=the stupidly overpowered ewar is what makes scorpions so hated in PVP=+- Fixed that for you. E-War is borked (ECM, Dampening and disruption), and it really needs diminishing returns, period. As one of these posters in here mentioned allready, there should never be a point where you are locked out of everything permanently, and a DR would fix this. Imagine you could fly a Scorpion without beeing alpha'ed because you are not an insane thread which can take out logis to the point of uselessness anymore. But yeah, we are talking about CCP, so they will refuse to change it anyway :D
Brent Oskold Republic University Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.01.03 02:37:00 - [50] - Quote CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion.
Mu-Shi Ai Ai Capital 162	Posted - 2013.01.03 03:52:00 - [51] - Quote Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. What does CCP care about people using PLEX for game time? It doesn't matter to them. They've been paid, by somebody, either way. They have no incentive to cut down it.
Piugattuk Lima beans Corp 277	Posted - 2013.01.03 03:55:00 - [52] - Quote Huh, for turrets this is a problem for missiles even heavy missiles this shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 564	Posted - 2013.01.03 04:24:00 - [53] - Quote Piugattuk wrote: Huh, for turrets this is a problem for missiles even heavy missiles this shouldn't be that big of a deal. If/when the TD/TE/TC changes come for missiles it will become very relevant for missile ships.
Ember Klahan Procyon Resources Honey Badger Coalition 2	Posted - 2013.01.03 19:22:00 - [54] - Quote Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. I don't follow the reasoning here. EVE is doing better than it ever has in terms of subscribers (iirc), and every time someone plays to pay, someone else already paid CCP for that month. Usually at a better rate than they would get with a subscription payment. As far as this thread goes, I too am annoyed with NPC ewar. I don't like NPC ewar at all, really; I don't see much of a point besides it just being an annoyance, given the current PvE philosophy of the game. My solution for making PvE more like PvP is to have us engage many fewer much more powerful NPCs (ewar enabled, realistic fits and dps) who have significantly higher bounties and better salvage. Seems like it would be a lot more fun.
Saint Spark Viziam Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.01.04 15:47:00 - [55] - Quote Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. CCP is doing the great thing - they pull out gamers into real world )))
Batelle Aliastra 108	Posted - 2013.01.04 18:49:00 - [56] - Quote Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot. [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65340[/url]
Mund Richard 231	Posted - 2013.01.05 15:00:00 - [57] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Player TDs, or NPC ones as well? If they change the NPC TD, I hope they look at the rest of the EWAR that was changed over the years. Heck, maybe also (Citadel) Torps and the like... Would be too good. Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets.
Dr Darknipples Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.01.24 15:11:00 - [58] - Quote Batelle wrote: Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot. Even bigger idiot
goldiiee Tax and War Haven 171	Posted - 2013.01.24 15:46:00 - [59] - Quote Dr Darknipples wrote: Batelle wrote: Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot. Even bigger idiot If you own a restaurant and 5 customers come in to eat (Play game) and pay for their meals with cash (subscription) you make money. If the next night 5 customers come in and pay with gift certificates (PLEX) you still made money the only difference is that the gift certificate (PLEX) money was in your wallet when the certificate was purchased, not when the meal was made. Your Restaurant (CCP) made the same money regardless. Actually in most cases gift certificates give a discount for paying in advance PLEXGÇÖes actually cost more than subscriptions so in effect CCP makes more from PLEX than they do from subscription, so if your supposition was correct then CCP should be buffing PVE in order to promote PLEX sales rather than nerfing it causing limited ISK to exchange for game time. For your own safety and those around you, remove the tinfoil hat. Reason and logic never wins over Stubborn and Convinced-á (But-áI still try..)
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 1198	Posted - 2013.01.24 16:17:00 - [60] - Quote goldiiee wrote: Dr Darknipples wrote: Batelle wrote: Brent Oskold wrote: CCP is moving to make it impossible to "play to pay". They have been nerfing pve for years. The requirements to pve keep getting higher and higher and the rewards less and less. It's not a push to pvp. It's an attempt to pull in more rl money. This is a signal that eve is not doing well and close to srs financial issues. They have a word for it... Extortion. idiot. Even bigger idiot If you own a restaurant and 5 customers come in to eat (Play game) and pay for their meals with cash (subscription) you make money. If the next night 5 customers come in and pay with gift certificates (PLEX) you still made money the only difference is that the gift certificate (PLEX) money was in your wallet when the certificate was purchased, not when the meal was made. Your Restaurant (CCP) made the same money regardless. Actually in most cases gift certificates give a discount for paying in advance PLEXGÇÖes actually cost more than subscriptions so in effect CCP makes more from PLEX than they do from subscription, so if your supposition was correct then CCP should be buffing PVE in order to promote PLEX sales rather than nerfing it causing limited ISK to exchange for game time. For your own safety and those around you, remove the tinfoil hat. You live up to your sig with this post. Well done.
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania Yoyodyne corporation Shadow Cartel 30	Posted - 2013.01.24 16:34:00 - [61] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: Urgg Boolean wrote: In actual practice, this procedure only works sometimes. Try this strategy in Mordus Folly 1 of 2. You will be swarmed, webbed and scrammed before you "melt the swarm" - you can't kill enough of them before they close in. If that happens, you have to sacrifice drones to whack the scramming frigs and flee to repair. Or maybe I just suck at EvE. Additionally, even dual TPs on my tengu won't hold aggro. I've said this since the test phase. Gaining aggro is not hard. Holding aggro is the hard part. The double whammy of new NPC AI and HM nerf make things much more difficult. And now I hear that TD will affect missiles "soon". Just great - a triple whammy for HM boats. ( not spell checked ) From what I can find on the web, there's only 3 Frigates and 5 Cruisers in the first wave of that mission, plus 5 more Cruisers in the second wave ... the rest are Battleships, staged in several waves ... and none of those scramble, but eve-survival might be out of date ... I fail to see the problem for a properly tanked BS in that mission, honestly. Frankly, I don't see the appeal of the Tengu ... it's a Cruiser, a very versatile one indeed, but still a Cruiser, it doesn't have the tank nor the punch for L4 missions, in my humble opinion. PLEASE STOP POSTING ON THE FORUMS IF YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS GAME. YOU FIRST SAID SENSOR BOOSTERS HELP TRACKING. NOW YOU SAY A TENGU HAS NO TANK OR DPS. PLEASE STOP. JUST STOP.
vice vortex Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 68	Posted - 2013.01.24 18:25:00 - [62] - Quote and once we adapt to this we will have to adapt to something else :(
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.01.25 01:47:00 - [63] - Quote vice vortex wrote: and once we adapt to this we will have to adapt to something else :( If by adapt you mean get used to a frustrating and tedious experience, sure. This whole NPC AI change reeks of lack of testing and bugs. I'm all for change but make sure it works first. Geez CCP, get your s***t together. Edit: It doesn't help that we're getting no communication from them on the subject.
Mund Richard 290	Posted - 2013.01.25 03:23:00 - [64] - Quote Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote: Edit: It doesn't help that we're getting no communication from them on the subject. That's just not true. We had so far multiple types: This is how we plan to do it, feedback is welcome. The version went live with minor adjustments. We know it's not ideal, we'll get back to you later, give feedback in the meantime. Instead of getting back, we got: Communication by patchnote! Or at least I missed the deep discussion about it with multiple devposts. Quoting said patch notes, admitting that things were messed-up before it Was nice to get a post there, and it did sound reasonable. Providing metrics that things aren't as crazy as they were Unrelated joke: there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Joke aside, it's true, even I am training another Gallente alt atmo with drone skills. Now the why... the why is interesting... Wish there was a Rogue Drone Faction Battleship... Infested Domi! Including all the wiggly bits to tend to your swarm, droneboat role bonus, and ofc with turrets.
L0rdF1end Mainly AFK Happy Cartel 58	Posted - 2013.01.25 14:18:00 - [65] - Quote How about just make a new game CCP. Players that want to play the new game with all of these changes you are making can sign up for it. People that want to play Eve the way they love Eve can stick with Eve. So many pointless changes breaking the things we love.
Moonlit Raid State War Academy Caldari State 70	Posted - 2013.01.25 21:12:00 - [66] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too I learned something a year or so ago, I've never really needed it. GGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY ^^^It's called the gay alarm.
Erick Voliffe Age of Extinction 1	Posted - 2013.01.27 20:17:00 - [67] - Quote I wonder what higher percentage of the player base, pve or pvp? I bet its pve by a large margain and yet they keep doing stuff that doesn't really do anything except annoy people who just want to pve. Oh they do that for pvp also, nvm keep up the good work CCP, one of these years you'll figure it out.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 191	Posted - 2013.01.27 21:10:00 - [68] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: Frankly, I don't see the appeal of the Tengu ... it's a Cruiser, a very versatile one indeed, but still a Cruiser, it doesn't have the tank nor the punch for L4 missions, in my humble opinion. DPS is average, granted, but Tengu lacking tank for level 4s? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Tell me you weren't serious
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 67	Posted - 2013.01.28 03:04:00 - [69] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Kery Nysell wrote: Frankly, I don't see the appeal of the Tengu ... it's a Cruiser, a very versatile one indeed, but still a Cruiser, it doesn't have the tank nor the punch for L4 missions, in my humble opinion. DPS is average, granted, but Tengu lacking tank for level 4s? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Tell me you weren't serious As serious as I can be without having flown the ship myself and going by the losses of the OP ... I do think that the combination of small sig, powerfull resistances, speed and good mods can make a tremendous tank, but I remain unconvinced ... more by the price tag than anything else really, at 200 millions for the hull, plus 20~100 millions for each subsytem, plus the modules, it SHOULD be a solid tanker ... or a glorified paperweight But I can mount a solid tank for level 4 missions on a "basic" Tech 1 Raven with Tech 2 modules for a fraction of the cost ... WITH the better DPS of Cruises Missiles for the NPC Battleships ... My skills : CLICKY
Ildryn The Inf1dels 77	Posted - 2013.01.28 03:27:00 - [70] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Kery Nysell wrote: Frankly, I don't see the appeal of the Tengu ... it's a Cruiser, a very versatile one indeed, but still a Cruiser, it doesn't have the tank nor the punch for L4 missions, in my humble opinion. DPS is average, granted, but Tengu lacking tank for level 4s? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Tell me you weren't serious As serious as I can be without having flown the ship myself and going by the losses of the OP ... I do think that the combination of small sig, powerfull resistances, speed and good mods can make a tremendous tank, but I remain unconvinced ... more by the price tag than anything else really, at 200 millions for the hull, plus 20~100 millions for each subsytem, plus the modules, it SHOULD be a solid tanker ... or a glorified paperweight But I can mount a solid tank for level 4 missions on a "basic" Tech 1 Raven with Tech 2 modules for a fraction of the cost ... WITH the better DPS of Cruises Missiles for the NPC Battleships ... When in a raven you will have GTFO moments. A tengu can tank it just fine and usually never drop below 90% sheilds if fit properly (all t2) The best dps you can get with t2 and that is maxed out is 630 dps Provided 3 damage controls. Best dps for a Tengu t2 fit is 601 dps Those are both EFT fits. So add is the fact that cruise missiles suck on frigs and furies are terribad on cruisers. A tengu even after the nerf still beats a standard raven.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 67	Posted - 2013.01.28 03:37:00 - [71] - Quote I must be doing something wrong then, because I never really had a GTFO moment in a Raven ... but then, knowing the triggers, managing aggro, never boosting more than needed to preserve cap, and the like, are my usual style of running missions ... I'm not an EFT-Warrior (just re-discovered that program), but with Precision Cruises I can kill frigates in 1 to 3 volleys (3 for the Elites) and my Fury Cruises eat Cruisers in 2 to 4 volleys (again, 4 for the Elites) ... I sometimes have to turn a Target Painter on some really heavily tanked cruisers in some rare missions, but that's not the norm ... Oh, and I'm not at full Vs too, but I have 2 Rigor and 1 Flare rigs in there, makes a world of difference. My skills : CLICKY
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 193	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:05:00 - [72] - Quote Without perfect skills and various implants (1 favouring the CNR, the rest generic), my tengu/CNR DPS difference (ignoring drones), is about 100-150 depending on what I fit. The CNR probably slightly edges real world DPS, but needs 3x rigors and 2 TPs to do it, something which means I need to keep a (much) closer eye on the tank than the T3, which can ignore all triggers and simply orbit a wreck trashing the room. The real strength of the tengu though, is the fact that tank is so damned good it can ignore everything and just blitz select targets, a raven doesnt have that luxury. Also mine is a CNR, a regular raven minus a launcher would probably be slightly behind the tengu. Of course, you get what you pay for
Mike Whiite Cupid Stunts. 122	Posted - 2013.01.28 11:17:00 - [73] - Quote The TD on missiles isn't implanted yet, because it can't be done without changing, modules, skills and the fear for the TD becoming OP. This is something they already found out at the drawing board, even for Retribution 1.1. there isn't any mention of this change. Also there is untill now only spoken of a minor effect on missiles. all in all way to soon to draw any conclusions

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