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Adapt, they say

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Akuma Tsukai 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2012.12.30 03:47:00 - [1] - Quote CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 171	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:10:00 - [2] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Yeah, when this happends I'm gonna move my other chars out of Amarr space. Whatever.
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 449	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:29:00 - [3] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Troll or real? I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan... GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Rain6635 Team Evil 32	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:53:00 - [4] - Quote I've only heard that it is real.
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 114	Posted - 2012.12.30 10:54:00 - [5] - Quote dexington wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Troll or real? I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan... It's real. It was ment to come in Retribution, but CCP pulled it so people could adapt to missile changes. Of course, the upside of it will be that TCs and TEs will affect missiles as well. And ye, those stacked TDs tend to be a bit on the insane side at times. Once missiles get affected by it, I guess the best way to deal with it will be drones (more targets for EW and more independant dps).
Gal'o Sengen State War Academy Caldari State 58	Posted - 2012.12.30 11:28:00 - [6] - Quote Caitlyn Tufy wrote: And ye, those stacked TDs tend to be a bit on the insane side at times. Once missiles get affected by it, I guess the best way to deal with it will be drones (more targets for EW and more independant dps). More likely people will just abandon Amarr space unless it gets toned down. The AI change wasn't bad by itself, the problem is Drones are in desperate need of a complete and equivalent overhaul themselves. Personally I'd love to see a system similar to the way Gambits worked in Final Fantasy XII applied to Drones along with some pretty significant UI improvements.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 351	Posted - 2012.12.30 12:30:00 - [7] - Quote OP's problem is not TDs (obviously), but amount of frigates his Cruise missiles can't hit for s*** and his drones getting killed. Unfortunately, missle boats is kind of mission running hardware I can't come up with good solution for. The thing is, NPC EWAR in missions is very easy to outrange by using MJD, SeBo and maybe some range mods (probably it's 5th time I state this on these boards within last 24 hours), then destroying anything with any kind of EWAR you don't like with long-range ammo. This also solves the problem of anything small - "improved" approach-F1-screw-angular rat AI ftw, though only gunboats and droneboats work for that well (the only problem is that Wardens and Bouncers are your long-range drones, and their damage type isn't stellar against Sansha and BR we seem to be talking about at the moment, but oh well). Missile boats, on the other hand, just don't have anything to destroy swarming frigates. Sure, things like Navy Raven could take 3 sentries and a flight of light drones and use those sentries on approach against frigs, but then they'll be doing DPS of said flight of light drones, if not less, and it's just not enough to take out elite frigs in anything resembling timely manner, not to be said about drone control range issue it will face. Sure, you can do like some dedicated mission runners I met who have like 4 ships just to run different missions with optimal speed, but IMO it kills entire purpose of running missions. While ISK/hour may be good, imagine the time it takes to get and fit all those mission boats. I don't think it will pay off fast enough. Unless your goal is collecting mission boats ofc. I don't know if Tengu is correct answer to that if you would like to keep using missiles. Sure, it's not really an optimal ship, but maybe it'll still be faster than using BS missile platform when it somes to such frig swarms... Please, post if you have some ideas.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 12:54:00 - [8] - Quote 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!!
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 453	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:06:00 - [9] - Quote Caitlyn Tufy wrote: And ye, those stacked TDs tend to be a bit on the insane side at times. Once missiles get affected by it, I guess the best way to deal with it will be drones (more targets for EW and more independant dps). Drones can be useful, but there are a lot of other things to consider when using drones. You should also keeping mind that drones work best against non elite rats. The tracking disruptors seem to have 50km optimal and 20km falloff, you might have a better chance using a long range weapon setup. Which also have a lot of other limitations... GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 453	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:08:00 - [10] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!! Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥

Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:12:00 - [11] - Quote dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. We don't have the same experience then. I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works.
Akuma Tsukai 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 79	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:13:00 - [12] - Quote Specially for an inbred imbecile under the name of Barrogh Habalu: In case you blind this is caracal. Which is no wonder considering screen was taken in blood 3/10, it have 5 pockets such as this. Now go and rewrite all the idiocity you typed once again.
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 453	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:14:00 - [13] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. We don't have the same experience then. I started using a Painter on my mission boat 18 missions ago, and since then my Light Drones didn't get aggroed once, even with a swarm of 20+ frigates orbiting me ... heck, I even "paint" a lonely cruiser that I keep for last, and it works. They changed the mechanic, nothing except ELITE frigs and cruisers will target light drones, it has nothing to do with the target painter. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:19:00 - [14] - Quote Still doesn't explain why I can do the same trick with Medium Drones against non-Elite Cruisers in missions ... but oh well.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 433	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:19:00 - [15] - Quote dexington wrote: Target Painters does absolutely nothing, light drones just don't get targeted by anything except elite frigs and cruisers. Sensor booster don't really counter the tracking disruptor, you want to use tracking computer or enhancer. Target Painter is an e-war module, which increases your threat level ... just saying. NPC Tackle Frigs are very vulnerable to Stasis Webbifier Target Painter T2 Precision Missiles all 3 combined means even Elite Frigs only last a few volleys Web&Paint works well with Drones too, lets them kill things faster.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 363	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:42:00 - [16] - Quote Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Yup not too hard to Adapt to that, launch some drones to change the aggro, and do some killing at the same time. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 116	Posted - 2012.12.30 13:53:00 - [17] - Quote dexington wrote: They changed the mechanic, nothing except ELITE frigs and cruisers will target light drones, it has nothing to do with the target painter. Target Painter (and prolly the rest of ewar as well, though I never tried it) always protected drones from sleeper AI, recent changes have nothing to do with that.
Sgt LoveDragon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.12.30 14:53:00 - [18] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: 1) Use a Target Painter on something to cement the aggro on you. 2) Release the Light Drones, set to aggressive. 3) Watch the frig swarm melt. 4) ????? 5) Profit ! And against TD's, Sensor Boosters with scripts. OH MY ! We have to think and use the tools are our disposal to do missions !! OMGWTFBBQ The Sky Is Falling !!! This does nothing , thanks for your contribution.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:01:00 - [19] - Quote Sgt LoveDragon wrote: This does nothing , thanks for your contribution. This is trolling, contributes nothing too, thanks for coming ...
Funky Lazers Shin-Ra Ltd 176	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:07:00 - [20] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: CCP did the right thing, they say Adapt to that, ya morons. http://postimage.org/image/s2p7v200l/full/ http://postimage.org/image/3z9anndcx/full/ P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Yup not too hard to Adapt to that, launch some drones to change the aggro, and do some killing at the same time. Did you know when rats change aggro they still use TDs on you? Whatever.

Sgt LoveDragon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:08:00 - [21] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: Sgt LoveDragon wrote: This does nothing , thanks for your contribution. This is trolling, contributes nothing too, thanks for coming ... I certainly hope it contributes. Unless you also think Sensor boosters help against tds. I have firsthand experience trying to get aggro from npc's away from drones/fighters unlike alot of the 'contributing' posters here. Ive explained it in detail in quite a few threads. Thanks for trying to do whatever witty thing you thought you were doing anyway.
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 815	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:12:00 - [22] - Quote As someone who actually tested all these changes on the test servers with every change, i can say a TP does nothing for gaining or keeping aggro. Individual missions have different drone hate sliders, they always have.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:14:00 - [23] - Quote Sgt LoveDragon wrote: I certainly hope it contributes. Unless you also think Sensor boosters help against tds. I have firsthand experience trying to get aggro from npc's away from drones/fighters unlike alot of the 'contributing' posters here. Ive explained it in detail in quite a few threads. Thanks for trying to do whatever witty thing you thought you were doing anyway. You didn't read my posts after the first, did you ? I'm now on my 21st mission using a Target Painter to lock the aggro on me, my drones (Lights and Mediums) are totally free of aggro from the NPCs in L4 missions. Tried and tested for four days now. It works, for me and numerous others. And yes, I did a mistake with Sensor Boosters against TD's, I should have typed "Tracking Computers", but oh well, I'm not perfect ...
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 455	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:21:00 - [24] - Quote Kery Nysell wrote: I'm now on my 21st mission using a Target Painter to lock the aggro on me, my drones (Lights and Mediums) are totally free of aggro from the NPCs in L4 missions. Try that in a ded site with 20 cruisers and you will see it has no effect what so ever, within seconds half the room switch to the drones if you use medium. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
Coyote Reach State Protectorate Caldari State 12	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:24:00 - [25] - Quote Also confirming TP/ reps on drones does not 'gain aggro'. Or at least in time to save the little guys. Ive got 70m in dead drones and fighters to boot from experimentation. These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. Though I have not run a level 4 in months.
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:25:00 - [26] - Quote I said I didn't have any experience with Complexes, on the previous page ... Reading comprehension FTW. Lucky me, I have a flame-retardant suit when I come on these forums ...
Kery Nysell Nysell Incorporated 41	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:29:00 - [27] - Quote Coyote Reach wrote: Also confirming TP/ reps on drones does not 'gain aggro'. Or at least in time to save the little guys. Ive got 70m in dead drones and fighters to boot from experimentation. These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. Though I have not run a level 4 in months. 1) warp in. 2) get aggroed by the usual suspects. 3) start painting a random target 4) launch drones, set them to aggressive, select the first frigate/cruiser (depending on the mission), order the attack. 5) watch the hit points of my drones staying up. 6) kill BSes/BCs with my Cruise missiles. 7) recall drones when the small fry is dead. 8) warp out. Again, I have no experience of complexes, and I mostly mission against Guristas, Serpentis, Angels, Drones, Blood Raiders and Sanshas, with sometimes a Mercenaries mission. Worked for me 100% of the time.
Coyote Reach State Protectorate Caldari State 12	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:38:00 - [28] - Quote So you have no Elite frigates in these missions? There must be something different from a 4 to a 5, maybe the elite frigs. Ive tp'd before deploying in a V, gotten elite frigs scrambling me at 6-8k orbit. I deploy drones after that (light / medium) and typically if i am not right about to hit recall 1 will die when aggro suddenly switches. Another will dock with low armor or some crap even from 8k out. If my ships was not td'd so hard itself id shoot these little elites when they are far out. But i cant so i fly something with cruise missiles. As you probably know shooting elite frigates with cruises ....is less than ideal. So from what you are saying your method works fine in the level 4's. But only level 4's.
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 455	Posted - 2012.12.30 15:49:00 - [29] - Quote Coyote Reach wrote: These level 4's you do is there a certain method of you releasing your drones? I have a hard time believing after all the tinkering iIve done that this actually works. I remember reading a dev post with a comment about the target selection of the AI, and ships offensive and defensive capabilities is one factor. Battleships may just naturally gain more aggression, then cruisers and battlecruiser in the same situation. I've tried the target painter flying myrmidon and vexor, and it does nothing, the rats switch to the drones first chance they get. It may or may not work for bigger or smaller ship, but the target painter alone is no magic cure. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥
stoicfaux 2157	Posted - 2012.12.30 16:07:00 - [30] - Quote dexington wrote: Akuma Tsukai wrote: P.S. and soon TD will affect missiles too Troll or real? I started training missiles to counter the TD problem, maybe not the best plan... Original plan: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936492#post1936492 CCP Fozzie wrote: Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar -Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect: Max flight time Explosion radius and explosion velocity -Make TDs affect Missiles Tracking speed script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius Optimal range script lowers flight time Updated plan: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936476#post1936476 Quote: Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit



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