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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:05:00 -
[1]
Ok before i start just want to point out im not ranting.
And i really do not want this to be taken as a rant more of a constructive critisim.
Ok so it's started 3 days ago when i started playing again really.
I noticed this FA apoc had been camping my station in 0.0 with a sniper fit.
As far as i could tell no wcs just dmg mod, range mods and tachs.
He used bm's at 119 ish KM all around the station.
And stayed alined for warp
Now second night i went after him i used a wolf knowing dam well i could kill that setup.
Now i never got him because of his aproach to pvp.
This wound me up a bit cus i got near a situation where i could get him 3 times but he warped and logged always just in time.
Next brings me to tonight was part of a small fleet and was in a system with a nme on next gate.
We entered gang warp and right as we did the nme fleet jumped through.
this is ok so we arive and find them with drones out.
This had clearly been some sort of setup no doubt with a traitor in our ranks who told them exactly when we warped.
This however annoying is not the problem.
the problem is They had more BS.
But we had more frigs and smallers.
Now as we came out of warp we found 1 of our BS had arived about 5 sec before the rest and it was literaly 3 sec.
But it had been locked down by all the nme's BS and was pounded to dust in about 50seconds.
the same time it took me to do 4 shoots off my 280mm 's on wolf.
This is what annoys as it takes 2-3 hours to get 22mill for a wolf + fitting, 4-5 to get isk to insure a BS and more like 10-12 to get the insure + half decent fit.
Now for any 1 that does only play 3 hours a day thats upto a weeks worth of time spent in belts either mining or npcin when they would love to be pvp.
To me thats a really poor value for time ratio.
almost 8 seconds of time PVP underfire for every other hour.
Now i have lost 2 good corp mates to WoW cus of this reason.
They only did PVP but continualy had to spend time doing stuff that was not fun for them.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Supermonkey
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:12:00 -
[2]
Wait... you say they left for WOW to get more... PVP? 
~0~ |
Supermonkey
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:17:00 -
[3]
Sorry I was so overwhelmed by your friends choice that I missed the contructive part of your post.
Hm, no I didn't, there is none.
I understand your point, your problem, what you don't like about EVE, but you should provide some solution to solve them else this is simply... what it isn't supposed to be, a rant.
~0~ |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:20:00 -
[4]
I think Fairi's point is eve combat goes way to fast.
Battles only last about a minute, which i agree is fairly boring.
Though switching to wow is sorta....well silly. 
I was really looking forward to the armor/shield/hull hp increase that magicly dissapeared.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Supermonkey
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:28:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
was really looking forward to the armor/shield/hull hp increase that magicly dissapeared.
You at least mention a solution option.
I simply don't think rants will get us anywhere but flames.
We need ideas.
~0~ |
Amataras
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:33:00 -
[6]
As has been said before in many threads, there has to be some kind of risk to PVP. There are players who claim the insurance system is too generous, and those who claim it is not generous enough (as above). I think its struck at a fair-ish balance at the moment.
The wolf is a tech 2 ship, and therefor market prices are often above its insurance value. This is just a fact of the player-run economy that one needs to accept. If you cannot deal with the prices required to run a tech 2 setup, then maybe you should consider reverting to tech 1.
--------------
The Eve Diplomacy Table
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DaHeaVYFo
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:36:00 -
[7]
Simple rule, Don't fight with a ship that you can't afford to lose, or is your money maker.
If money was even more easy to get, I think I wouldn't wanna be doing pvp any more. Cuz what would be the rush of combat? And oh, think of the deflation!
"Ot rint, rint terrin" |
fairimear
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:36:00 -
[8]
The point is i felt the need to make it clear games like WoW are benifiting from eve's flaws.
And from what i can tell you got the point by recognising the fact that people are going to WoW of all things.
The point however is not to give any form of fix as this game belongs to the devs and as made clear by the number of flames any post sujesting stuff gets as some 1 is allways against it if only for the point of being against it.
the dev's need to come up with the fix as any player idea is going to result in some 1 claiming favouritism and leading to more flames.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Supermonkey
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Posted - 2005.06.12 22:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: fairimear
The point is i felt the need to make it clear games like WoW are benifiting from eve's flaws.
And from what i can tell you got the point by recognising the fact that people are going to WoW of all things.
The point however is not to give any form of fix as this game belongs to the devs and as made clear by the number of flames any post sujesting stuff gets as some 1 is allways against it if only for the point of being against it.
the dev's need to come up with the fix as any player idea is going to result in some 1 claiming favouritism and leading to more flames.
That doesn't change the fact that the DEVs will read it and if the ideas are good they won't care about flames and people who are against it if their arguments aren't good enough.
Such posts will just be ignored, waste of bandwidth.
~0~ |
Rthor
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Posted - 2005.06.12 23:37:00 -
[10]
It's always been like this. Long term survival in eve requires not making enough consecutive mistakes.
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Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2005.06.13 00:18:00 -
[11]
Two people in frigates should be able to have a good time prowling 0.0 as sappers without too much cost to their operations.
They just wanted a whole lot of everything for nothing. Good riddance.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.06.13 00:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 13/06/2005 00:20:29
Half the fun for me is building myself up, or rebuilding in some cases. Losses are inevitable, so the real trick is to maximize your gains.
BTW, gang warping in PvP...why?
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
What is your Radical Dream? |
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.13 00:32:00 -
[13]
yea, wow is not my idea of a top pvp game eather. 
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.06.13 00:50:00 -
[14]
Fully agree that combat is way too fast sometimes. (read: blobs)
However, how do you fix it? Increase hitpoints? Won't work. People will simply use more ships to kill you just as instantly.
As long as focus-fire wins NOTHING will help this situation. Unfortunately, I cannot think of a workable solution. (If I could, I'd probably be making more money than I currently do...)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.06.13 00:54:00 -
[15]
Workable solution would be surpressive fire counting for something, that's not very hard to work into the equation.
Convert Stations
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Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2005.06.13 01:02:00 -
[16]
WoW pvp compared to EvE pvp is like playing in a sandbox compared to building a skyscraper, in nearly all aspects.
Sure, you dont have any risk of loosing anything (short of a few silver for occasional repairs). But i wonŠt ever get the kind of thrill i feel always in eve pvp, where you know you can loose everything, but also strip your enemy of his precious stuff when you manage to kill him first  .
You find gankers in both games nevertheless, but as you (the poster) stated, you knew what you where up to, so that doesnt count as an excuse.
People who fly any type of under-insured Tech II vessel should at the same time they aquire the vessel write off the money and count it as a loss, people who fly a BS can always insure it for about its original value, so they wonŠt loose that much.
You can earn 30 mil for plat insurance easily in some two-three man mining op in under an hour (large barge + mining apoc fill a can in under 20mins)
If you prefer ratting, go to a dead-end system and check the belts, you will get several BS kills per hour.
I admit, i play WoW from time to time for that "quickie fun-pvp fix", but for the real thing i prefer EvE, my true love 
Patience wins. |
Nybbas
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Posted - 2005.06.13 01:09:00 -
[17]
90% of the people i know who quit eve for wow have come back to eve the other 10% are retards...
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Zezman
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Posted - 2005.06.13 01:10:00 -
[18]
I've never played another game where my heart literally races and I feel and hear the blood pumping in my ears when I jump into a system I know is gate camped. The pure thrill of excitement of this game is unique. I hate carebear games that prevent you from ever taking any real risks of loss. I would play another game at the drop of a hat if it had permadeath, because that would be the ultimate in gaming intensity.
(»)(»)
À\Oo/
À=\/=
This is Rat. It is a vermin. It has eaten all of Bunny's lettuce. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.06.13 01:21:00 -
[19]
Just stop buying a clone Zezman, works wonders for the pulse.
Convert Stations
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Bluestealth
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Posted - 2005.06.13 01:30:00 -
[20]
:( -V- also use these kind of spots to gank frigs.... they warp in are aligned to warp out in about 4 secs... wont come if to many BSes in system... so you can never get enough damage to insta gank them, have multiple spots so you never know which they will use, some use WCS in their ships, some use full damage, they warp between safes in under 2 mins, and warp out before coverts can get to them always, often have a covert to make more spots on demand.... nearly 0 risk and gets them frig kills sometimes... so sick of all these 0 risk activities that are supported by CCP.... o and 1 logged out when a AF had her into low armor... that person never snipes without stabs now :(.... low risk to nearly no risk.... ooo wee sniping 4tw!
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.06.13 02:06:00 -
[21]
I only have one comment to make, and its not aimed at you. I just love it when imbeciles scream about ganking, and how it takes "no skill" then end up getting ganked with 3 to 1 odds in their favor just because they dropped out of warp a minute early
Ganking is an imbalance, not a profession. Trying to insult someone by calling them a ganker is like trying to insult someone by pointing out they wear a heavy coat in winter
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.06.13 02:27:00 -
[22]
I think its sort of funny that the attitude towards new players etc.. is always good riddance.
Well thats fine and dandy but if EvE loses keeps losing players in the long-term and fails to gain new customers Everybody will be stuck playing WoW :)
I do believe costs need to be nerfed a little, everything else is being nerfed anyways. Not make it a free for all but maybe a little easier on folks who do not spend 10 hours a day playing with 3 paid accounts running Macros etc..
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2005.06.13 03:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: HUGO DRAX
I think its sort of funny that the attitude towards new players etc.. is always good riddance.
Well thats fine and dandy but if EvE loses keeps losing players in the long-term and fails to gain new customers Everybody will be stuck playing WoW :)
I do believe costs need to be nerfed a little, everything else is being nerfed anyways. Not make it a free for all but maybe a little easier on folks who do not spend 10 hours a day playing with 3 paid accounts running Macros etc..
I play 3 hrs a day and not everyday either and I'm doing fine. And Eve isn't losing players. The number of players is actually increasing. Whiners can quit and spare us all the forum replies.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable)
"This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2005.06.13 06:39:00 -
[24]
Thing is, Fairimear isn't complaining about ganking per se - she's complaining about the briefness of combat.
Thats something i'd agree with... If there was more time involved - say minimum of 20 sec to a minute for an encounter.
Sniping etc is fine, but it would be more enjoyable if things took longer.. how this can be done i dont know..
The problems stopping longer combat are - massed fire <shrug> its too effective. Short time to warp out - there is no time to run to catch someone and lock them down before they run... if it took some 10-15 seconds to get into war _even when aligned_ then it would be something...
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2005.06.13 06:40:00 -
[25]
Switching to wow for that reason does make perfect sense, you can deny it if you want.
In wow you can pvp as much as you want, die as many times as you want, nothing will happen you don't lose anything.
Of course this also means most of the times it's pointless to pvp .... unless you're having fun doing just that. :) |
Balazs Simon
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Posted - 2005.06.13 08:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vel Kyri
Thing is, Fairimear isn't complaining about ganking per se - she's complaining about the briefness of combat.
Thats something i'd agree with... If there was more time involved - say minimum of 20 sec to a minute for an encounter.
Sniping etc is fine, but it would be more enjoyable if things took longer.. how this can be done i dont know..
The problems stopping longer combat are - massed fire <shrug> its too effective. Short time to warp out - there is no time to run to catch someone and lock them down before they run... if it took some 10-15 seconds to get into war _even when aligned_ then it would be something...
I agree that it would be cool, that combat would take longer...
But if you just change the warpout time even when aligned, as you suggested, every primary target would go down...
15 sec in a sniper fleet vs sniper fleet if there is more than 5 ship on each side = you die in less than 10 sec
(ofc in full dmg mod fitting)
The rule is than you need to tacle the enemy to kill it...
and simply because it is nearly impossible to get near a sniper fleet with a tacler... this lead to the current situation.
What we need is 2 thing.
1 st Faster Cov Op ships... MUCH MUCH FASTER... 1000 - 2000 m/s for example
This can allow the teams to warp closer to each other.
2 nd The changes Oveur mentioned in on of his post about BMs.. the one whe nhe mention warping to an object will be possible not just to 15 - 60 Km, but even 15 - 250 Km + when you fit those nasty moduls wich give you "warp accuracy" you can warp to objects in double point scrambler range.
I remember my first fleet battle, it was in HLW in curse with a combined forces of ATUK / STAIN / XATIC and a Small CFS gang wich I was part of... THOSE WERE THE FLEET BATTLES (there were close range / medium range fights), not this nonsense sniping fests taking place (seriously you have no other way to fight nowdays, and you die only if you screw up = bug / lag = you get frustrated = BAD !!!)
In the past lot of battles took place when the 2 fleet was sitting on the same gate/ both waiting for the other to jump through (NOT on sniper spot, but on the gate), than suddenly all started, there were primarys as alway ofc, but a lot of individual fighst took place.. and it was a hell of a fun.
I can say I'm experienced in combat, I'm in war situation in FA nearly since the CFS war. It was becoming worst and worst as time passed. PPL realized, they cant die if on sniper spot, and just moved there, cus it is more safe!
And this is the main porblem, being on sniper range = safe
If ccp can fix this , this will give other range comabt a chance.
1 Faster cov ops
2 bigger ranges to warp to
3 maybe a modul on cov ops, that allow you to warp to any ship you see ony our overwiev (possible just with this modul ofc)
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Holy Smoke
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Posted - 2005.06.13 08:32:00 -
[27]
This is why CCP is increasing HPs on each ship 
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.06.13 08:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Holy Smoke
This is why CCP is increasing HPs on each ship
since when?
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2005.06.13 08:46:00 -
[29]
yup, I have to say that aligned sniping is one of the easiest and uncounterable things to do in eve.
you simply cannot get that bs, whatever you do. All you can bet on is him getting asleep on his keyboard (the same with scanning probes).
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Typherin laidai
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Posted - 2005.06.13 09:06:00 -
[30]
I make my money from PvP ... spent about 12 hours online this weekend (most of that drunk)
And only gained
4 * Alpha mod Expanders
1 * Shadow Serp 1mn MWD
I dont mine , Dont run missions, and dont NPC
who really cares how much money you make as long as you have fun...
the stuff I got this weekend was worth what ? 40mill ? (not sure how much the MWD is worth)
thats 3 mill roughly per hour lol.... pathetic... but I enjoyed it none the less 
Typherin Care Negotitation Expert level 5
Originally by: Eris Discordia
*gives Typherin some loving*
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