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Niklas
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Posted - 2005.06.13 21:54:00 -
[1]
Guys why does every ship have a shield system if they were intended to armor tank? Lets scrap armor tanking as we know it and make every ships primary defense shield tanking. Remove the stupid shield boost penalty on the cap relays, and keep all the ships slots the same. This simple idea will make armor actually last longer in pvp, and make the game more realistic.
Give all ships 10times the armor hps they currently have. Make the armor reps at least 10times less effective. Make all the armor plates 10times more effective. This would make it harder to WTF pawn someone, you could still own some one with a gankaddeon but they would have time to target you now  One more thing to add is to make the ships take structural damage as the take armor damage. Not much. For every 100hp of armor damage take 1 hp of structure. Repairable only at stations or POS's.
Now before you go nuts, my apoc has 5760hps, with the change it would have 57600. So it would take 5,760,000hps of armor damage before it got to 0% structure.
This change will definatly increase the duration of battles, which can be far to short, and still make shield tanking the primary defense. It would also help those who want to passivly armor tank. Some rolled tungstein plates and a few armor hardeners will make it very time consuming to kill some ships but not impossible by any means.
Ive been intaganked a few times, and with this change i could atleast beg for my life before i died 
Thanks for Reading
Niklas
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.06.13 21:56:00 -
[2]
I suggested this once, but definitely not to the absurd scale you have. Armor tanking would be just slapping on plates to survive shorter battles, while shield tanking would be better for longer battles, and all ships can do both.
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HeLlRaIzA666
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Posted - 2005.06.13 21:57:00 -
[3]
yes, that will be fair, a geddon with 3 slots , shield tankin, where as the scorp has 8 med slots, shield tankin.. yes, so so fair hmmm
--------------------------------------------
In War There Are No Runners Up...
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Niklas
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:09:00 -
[4]
yup an arma with 8 low slots for say 3-tungsten plates worth 21k armor each, and 5-damage mods. so now that arma has about 100-120k hps, plus 5 damage mods. It would probably blow the hell out of the scorp. Even though shield tanking would be a primary, doesnt mean that passive armor tanking with 100k armor hps would not be effective.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:11:00 -
[5]
Nah imho armopur tanking is ok just increrase overall armour and shield hp so battle last much longer and neither tankers get disadvantage
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Niklas
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:20:00 -
[6]
Look im an orginal arma and apoc man, but i would still like to see these changes. Active armor tanking really seems stupid compared to active shield tanking. The idea that we can reform armor from energy is a hard step to reach. Armor should be effective, but you should not be able to repair all your armor hps in 43sec. 5760hps, 2-tech2 armor reps. 3.6 cycles at 12 sec per cycle. Armor should have a cubic butt ton of hps, and take a long time to repair if damaged.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:31:00 -
[7]
Realisticly it might be a problem but i dont car about realism in game.
And whats more important let CCP concentrate on critical issues , this is is imho not important as shield tankers and armour tankers are balanced and a bit different to make it interesting
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:36:00 -
[8]
what are you a dummy? 10 times the armor? no armor tanking? please...
SPACE NOOB:
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:39:00 -
[9]
Amargan please go back to play with your frinds in priamary school thank you.
Niklas i dont think its abad idea its interesting but at the current stage of Eve with so many other critical things i dont really think its worth a try.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Niklas
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:42:00 -
[10]
must not beable to read very well, I said no active armor tanking. would not 10x the armor be an effective aromr tank? sorry if you didnt figure that out. most people like the current system so they can instagank people, those who fit 8-damage mods and such. If a ship can do 800-1000 damage per second, why does the armor hp only equal 4-6k on a bs???. wow a total of 10-15 seconds of life for a ship. I know if this were instituted you would actually have to think about you setup alittle more.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:47:00 -
[11]
I would prefer a safe multpier for current arnour and shield hp to make batttles last longer , leaving the active armour tanking
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Niklas
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:50:00 -
[12]
Earthan, what are you thinking, 3-5times the armor or shields, and leave the rest alone???
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 22:58:00 -
[13]
yes somethingk like this but closer to 5-7 times i think or even your 10 .
I mean bs battles are ajoke for me now.they should be something epic with you being able to call suypport, think about tactics.And they last seconds, what really matters is , im not jocking , the speed with wich you activate modules and issue other orders , a bit of a reflex game...
The bs battles were much better long time ago around 1 year ago, tough in other aspects Eve is much better now.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Ardor
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Posted - 2005.06.13 23:34:00 -
[14]
Several ships attack one ship and the attacked ship dies in seconds. For many players that's no fun. For sure not on the receiving end but also for most people who gank. I think this kind of gank combat in fleet battles or gate camps is the biggest problem in Eve but it's by far the most effective way to get kills.
Increasing HP is not the solution to this problem. Increasing HP will be the death for 1:1 combat because the chance to jamm a single opponent during combat so you can run becomes higher as greater the number of HP is. Scrambling in 1:1 will become pointless because before you kill your opponent there is a very high chance he will jamm you so he can run. If you increase HP you must nerf EW. This will make EW completly underpowered for those who use EW in an offensive way.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.13 23:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Earthan on 13/06/2005 23:58:19
 Originally by: Ardor
Several ships attack one ship and the attacked ship dies in seconds. For many players that's no fun. For sure not on the receiving end but also for most people who gank. I think this kind of gank combat in fleet battles or gate camps is the biggest problem in Eve but it's by far the most effective way to get kills.
Increasing HP is not the solution to this problem. Increasing HP will be the death for 1:1 combat because the chance to jamm a single opponent during combat so you can run becomes higher as greater the number of HP is. Scrambling in 1:1 will become pointless because before you kill your opponent there is a very high chance he will jamm you so he can run. If you increase HP you must nerf EW. This will make EW completly underpowered for those who use EW in an offensive way.
well a point but still it must be done we cant continue with bs fight as it is.
I really had loads more fun in bs fights around 1 year ago .You had timeto think to test osme things in combat call for frinds , enjoy the combat.
Sure it wont save you from dying from 5 bs fire fast but still it will take considerably more time.
Well maybe making warp scrambling immune to jamming?If once you warp scrmble enmy thats it .
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Niklas
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Posted - 2005.06.14 01:08:00 -
[16]
Andor
This change will not kill em, just because armor hp is increased doesnt mean that everyone will carry a jammer. And if your worried about the other person jamming you then fit a mod to increase targeting strenght. 1 bs will still take out another ship, it will just take longer, unless you cant sustain your cap on the em long enough to kill the target you should have no worries.
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infused
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Posted - 2005.06.14 01:10:00 -
[17]
I'm sorry, but this is by far the worst suggestion i've ever heard...
Would unbalance everything.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Santiac
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Posted - 2005.06.14 02:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Santiac on 14/06/2005 02:05:25
Edited by: Santiac on 14/06/2005 02:04:03
as for realism of active armor tanking - wouldn't it be feasable that when we've accomplished making drones and warp engines, that we've made cwute little nanobots with a tiny pack of plasma that it could extract and place over the damaged area, the plasma would then mimic the atomic structure of material next to it and harden. The plasma in the pack would regenerate X amount of plasma / time from the energy delivered by the ships capacitors? :)
At least as feasable imo as regenerating and upholding a forcefield made up of some other sort of materialized energy substance that can deflect EMP/thermal/kinetic/explosive damage ;P
________________________________________
<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Amargan Nagil
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Posted - 2005.06.14 02:10:00 -
[19]
well if you guys knew anything about the new dreadnought class-that should be more than epic enough for all of you! there! now you are all dummies! dreadnoughts are coming.... with 20k armor :)
SPACE NOOB:
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yeah its my bunny! all mine! |
Zenst
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Posted - 2005.06.14 04:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Earthan
Nah imho armopur tanking is ok just increrase overall armour and shield hp so battle last much longer and neither tankers get disadvantage
So agreee, but CCP prefer to nerf guns/dmg output over just doubling all the SHeild/HP. I suspect they want to increase sheild/armour as they muted before, only just now people seeing the benifits of such a change so its more fashionable.
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Hatchplug
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Posted - 2005.06.14 04:55:00 -
[21]
I think this is a very interesting idea which CCP should consider. Currently, there is little difference between shields and armor. This way, it would become:
Shields: Low HP but fast regeneration
Armor: High HP but slow regeneration
This is already somewhat true, though the difference is too small. A change would definitely make the game more interesting, though I would not be as extreme as OP suggests.
Increase armor and armor plates by 3x. Decrease armor repair speed by 2x but at the same cap usage per point. Increase shield boost speed by 2x but at the same cap usage per point. Increase shield natural regeneration by 3x.
CCP has also signalled that they want to increase the survivability of ships, so this would be killing two birds with one stone. |
Orph
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Posted - 2005.06.14 07:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Santiac
Edited by: Santiac on 14/06/2005 02:05:25
Edited by: Santiac on 14/06/2005 02:04:03
as for realism of active armor tanking - wouldn't it be feasable that when we've accomplished making drones and warp engines, that we've made cwute little nanobots with a tiny pack of plasma that it could extract and place over the damaged area, the plasma would then mimic the atomic structure of material next to it and harden. The plasma in the pack would regenerate X amount of plasma / time from the energy delivered by the ships capacitors? :)
At least as feasable imo as regenerating and upholding a forcefield made up of some other sort of materialized energy substance that can deflect EMP/thermal/kinetic/explosive damage ;P
I agree with this guy 
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Stealthbite
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Posted - 2005.06.14 08:03:00 -
[23]
10x hit points makes NPC'ing unbalanced
1/2 damage from guns makes NPC'ing impossible
There is more to think about then PVP (Hey those of us who PVP have to make ISK some how) when suggesting changes. I donĘt want to shoot your idea down but give you constrictive criticism to help improve on the idea. GL!
~Stealth
Yarr! |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.06.14 09:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Amargan Nagil
well if you guys knew anything about the new dreadnought class-that should be more than epic enough for all of you! there! now you are all dummies! dreadnoughts are coming.... with 20k armor :)
welll yea and propably with xll guns and torps wich deliver insane dmg wich ends up in the same seconds lasting battles
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.06.14 09:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hatchplug
I think this is a very interesting idea which CCP should consider. Currently, there is little difference between shields and armor. This way, it would become:
Shields: Low HP but fast regeneration
Armor: High HP but slow regeneration
This is already somewhat true, though the difference is too small. A change would definitely make the game more interesting, though I would not be as extreme as OP suggests.
Increase armor and armor plates by 3x. Decrease armor repair speed by 2x but at the same cap usage per point. Increase shield boost speed by 2x but at the same cap usage per point. Increase shield natural regeneration by 3x.
CCP has also signalled that they want to increase the survivability of ships, so this would be killing two birds with one stone.
your peronal standing to me is -10 from now on...
Shield tank > Armor tank in pvp, because you need low slots for dmg mods. Well and EW > shield tank, so...
And now let's nerf armor tank(and 1mil sp thrown away) so that we can fit plates and do crappy dmg. No thanx.
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Mesasone
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Posted - 2005.06.14 10:02:00 -
[26]
Short of a complete overhaul of ship specs and module usage, I do not think there is a solution for the problems at hand. To increase HP, you would have to consider what would happen to set ups. It would likely become very difficult to sustain many tanking load out that are not capable of running indeffinately due to the increased duration of battles. Not to mention the effects on EW and weapon usage, populsion modules and the likes.
Now, I would like to see battles last longer, and I dont think there is anyone who wouldnt... I'm just suggesting that simply increasing HP would not nessicarily be effective. Then again, I'm making huge assumptions... and what do I know... somebody prove me wrong and I will be happy.
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Marconious
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Posted - 2005.06.14 10:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Niklas
Guys why does every ship have a shield system if they were intended to armor tank? Lets scrap armor tanking as we know it and make every ships primary defense shield tanking. Remove the stupid shield boost penalty on the cap relays, and keep all the ships slots the same. This simple idea will make armor actually last longer in pvp, and make the game more realistic.
Give all ships 10times the armor hps they currently have. Make the armor reps at least 10times less effective. Make all the armor plates 10times more effective. This would make it harder to WTF pawn someone, you could still own some one with a gankaddeon but they would have time to target you now One more thing to add is to make the ships take structural damage as the take armor damage. Not much. For every 100hp of armor damage take 1 hp of structure. Repairable only at stations or POS's.
Now before you go nuts, my apoc has 5760hps, with the change it would have 57600. So it would take 5,760,000hps of armor damage before it got to 0% structure.
This change will definatly increase the duration of battles, which can be far to short, and still make shield tanking the primary defense. It would also help those who want to passivly armor tank. Some rolled tungstein plates and a few armor hardeners will make it very time consuming to kill some ships but not impossible by any means.
Ive been intaganked a few times, and with this change i could atleast beg for my life before i died
Thanks for Reading
Niklas
Your an Idiot, go back to Mining
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.06.14 11:10:00 -
[28]
Lol... 10 times the armor is redicoulus, but imo its really annoying to the "flavor" of the game to see battleships fall like flies in any engagemente with more than 2 ppl - I mean I know thats necessary for game balance but BS doesnt really look like they r tough more like they where made of paper and glue (and sometimes the models dont help either *cough* tempest *cough*).
I remember an upgrade to armors and structures used to be in a dev blog like 5 month ago dunno what happened then...
- Gob |
Azeal Reece
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Posted - 2005.06.14 11:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hatchplug
I think this is a very interesting idea which CCP should consider. Currently, there is little difference between shields and armor. This way, it would become:
Shields: Low HP but fast regeneration
Armor: High HP but slow regeneration
.
wow insta caldari gank or what......... all battles are alrady over to fast, and tanking/rechage of shields means nothing at all when ur taking fire from 5 ganking bs's......... will just mean every1 uses ammar/gellante/min for pvp cuz there better, oh no wait, they already do :/.....................
we need to inc the hp or all ships imo, battles are over too fast
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Drommy
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Posted - 2005.06.14 11:33:00 -
[30]
to be fair, imo sheild tanking is WAY overpowerd, large sheild boosters are good anyway, then u get a sheild amp. and then if thats not enugh u can switch for an XL worth more than 2 armour reps. so u can have an xl and an amp running in the same amount that a armour tanker could have 2 reps running and still boost a hell of alot more. then u have passive recharge rate. skills to increase almost every asspect of sheild boosting, and now there more skills coming out to make it more uber :)
/me goes to buy a raven and stop trying to beet tehm and join them
/me puts on the firemens uniform and awaits a good flaming (but ya know its true :P)
_______________________________________________
A good leader takes their people where they want to go
A great leader takes their people not where they necessarily want to go, but ought too. |
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