| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc
Bitten.
107
   |
Posted - 2013.01.08 20:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sir John Halsey wrote:Oxandrolone wrote:The main problem is not the warp core strength and its so hard to tackle them....
The problem is with a perfect skilled virtue scanner you need to go to 1.00 AU which is mostly gonna be atleast 2 scans and then when you dictor lands with them it has about 3 seconds before it can drop a bubble meanwhile the venture aligns and warps in about 1.5 seconds.
The only way to catch one who is paying attention is too pre-bm the sight (so you dont have to scan it)
and then warp there in a cloaky T3 with +3 jam strength and decloak it with a bumb so it doesnt align and warp off before you cloaking delay ends. Or cloaky with smartbombs i guess might work. Tackle it is not a problem. If they are afk you can easily kill them. You have mods to tackle them ;) ... Actually you can do it with one mod only. If they are in your hole and you can't kill them, you are doing it wrong: In your hole you should already have the ladar/radar scanned + all incoming WHs. You can either warp to ladar cloaked, bookmark fly dictor and bubble or warp a regular ship to make them run back to the exit WH which is bubbled. Pick your poison. There is one more case ... smart people ... you won't be able to kill them anyway which makes all this chit chat about the +2 stab useless :)
what if as in 100% of my case they are not in your home, and you need to combat them, you need 2 scans where your combats are on d-scan thats atleast 12 seconds. then you got to warp to them also on d-scan and even when you enter grid they can align and warp before you land and can drop a bubble, all of this without a single module.
i dont minf if they fit warp core stabs, or jammers, or prop mods to get away. but now they got a stupid ore hold so they dont need to fit low-slots to make them better miners (expanders)
they shouldnt only be killable while afk... |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1576
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 20:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Ayeson wrote:
So you think people are entitled to kills because they can scan? They they deserve to be spoon fed a kill because they can land on grid with someone?
Do you think fitting an extra point requires more skill that combat scanning someone without them seeing you?
Why on earth do you see them as exclusive 
Maybe some players are just more skilled?
Like for example being skilled enough to both fit a ship, and scan, and they deserve this much coveted, defenseless mining frigate kill... and not you 
Also, miner gank is a miner gank, barges and such could all be stabbed up to +10 for all I care.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
557
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
I don't disagree with you mate and personally i don't feel that it's worth my time trying to catch one... But some people have posted KM's in here where they have fielded a half a billion isk fleet to kill one of these little buggers, like we should be impressed or something 
Personally i feel that with their current abilities, it's more down to luck than player skill as to whether you catch a venture. (i.e. they are afk)
I think CCP could have made the venture just as viable without going to the extreme that they did and then maybe in the future they could have added cruiser size ship that performed similar to the venture.
... |
QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
This thread has given my time in the bathroom on the clock tons of joy. You have seriously validated my time spent in here. The venture is cheap, its hard to scan, it requires extra points, it can go 2k ms and it can hold 5000m3.
My old gassing cyclone aligned in 12 seconds, had 3 stabs, and could only go 200ms. Neither one has been killed by gankers. I, usually, pay attention to dscan so therefore I am hard to gank. Should I be nerfed? |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
The +2 warp strength is completely necessary and justified because it very likely directly led to the creation of this epic fail thread. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
557
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Did it? Read the op again... 
... |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
11
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Given the warp strength was the first thing mentioned and also given you bothered to create this thread, I assumed you attempted to tackle one with an expensive cloaky T3 (but obviously with a +3 scram fitted) and it got away. How dare it.
http://adhocracy.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=15747506 |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
557
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
No not at all... it's not rocket science to realise you need 2 scrams to catch one. But i think i have explained my feeling multiple times already.
This was intended to be a discussion thread but some of you guys interpreted it as a whine thread. 
... |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc
Bitten.
107
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 22:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
just happened again. 0.5 AU in perfect scanner with virtues, ******* ridiculous |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters
Talocan United
65
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 22:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
I've found with the ventures alot of people have become complacent with DScan or go afk.
I mean we found 2 ventures orbitting a cloud afk who proceeded to continue to orbit the cloud while we were giggling our asses off trying to hit them with t3 BCs.
I agree that the +2 warp core strength is a bit OTT for a cheap frig, but 9 times out of 10 we have a HIC/DIC.
TL:DR People who aren't watching Dscan will be caught and people who are will get away like usual (even in their cruisers/bcs)
Cheers,
Sith
May you be one with Bob |
illy velo
Timber Wolves
Splinter Cell.
27
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 00:05:00 -
[71] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I can't really argue there. I just hate the little *******. i know corps that have chosen to gas mine instead of shooting sleepers because it's "easier". Now what am i to do with all my t3's?
Considering Exhale only allows 2 or 3 ship types in their plex fleets this should be great news for some of your corpies. As a Proteus / Tengu pilot I wasn't able to make any money while in Exhale. Now? Killing them backwater vital / instrumentals in our C5 statics nightly.
Seriously, the risk reward on venture fleet / instrumental is crazy good. Each ship is paid for in about 12 cycles on a C320.
|
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
152
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 03:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Like I said earlier, Ventures aren't hard to kill in sites...this one happened to be a grav
http://kb.hardknocksinc.net/index.php/kill_detail/4859/
Ask me about Rengas-dar, HRDKX's Most recent, groundbreaking, game-changing, wormhole-collapsing research endeavour. |
Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 03:38:00 -
[73] - Quote
http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18175
http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=18140
Nerf Venture indeed.
Edit: Creating functioning links is hard so you need to right click and open in new tab. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
557
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 08:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
Lol nice work Rengas
... |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
327
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
learn2chitsa |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1576
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I don't disagree with you mate and personally i don't feel that it's worth my time trying to catch one... But some people have posted KM's in here where they have fielded a half a billion isk fleet to kill one of these little buggers, like we should be impressed or something Personally i feel that with their current abilities, it's more down to luck than player skill as to whether you catch a venture. (i.e. they are afk) I think CCP could have made the venture just as viable without going to the extreme that they did and then maybe in the future they could have added cruiser size ship that performed similar to the venture.
I don't really think it's unreasonable to regard a cloaky Proteus with faction scram (or hell, faction scram+faction point) as a fairly standard part of an everyday wormhole gang. In many cases it's the mainline ship. Honestly. I sort of get your point (lolpun), but as what comes to our normal operations in w-space, the +2 wcs of Venture makes no difference, the Great Hammerhead of the Skies is my goto ship anyway.
I feel that the Venture was designed to promote risk-taking in low & null, where typical fleets really need to adapt... +1billion ISK cloaky tacklers aren't the norm there, like they are in w-space.
As what comes to your skill argument. that doesn't hold water, sorry. +2 wcs poses an equipment requirement from the ganker, player skill requirements are exactly the same.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Bliss20
Freyr Vipers
Invictus Void
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 10:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:you don't catch ventures at a ladar site, you catch them at the WH the run to when you spook them with combats on D.
What he said! |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 10:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:. I, usually, pay attention to dscan so therefore I am hard to gank. Should I be nerfed?
There is the proof. Nerf him!
Venture though is some quirky little beast. I love it, also just bought a t1 fitted sixpack of those to have my roommates giving gas sucking a shot!
I'm normally not that eager to gank ventures so I cba to care to much. I'd consider an autocannon-fitted hound though. Just for laughs and jiggles. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
557
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 10:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
Roime wrote:
As what comes to your skill argument. that doesn't hold water, sorry. +2 wcs poses an equipment requirement from the ganker, player skill requirements are exactly the same.
Well let's just agree to disagree on that one.
Thinking about it, i guess my main gripe stems from the fact i feel it has taken away from gameplay (for the hunters) and better kill mails. Sure, i could fit my ships specifically to overcome the +2 warp strength or organize a small fleet to kill a frigate but at the end of the day it's not worth the effort... Which is admittedly a matter of perspective.
... |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1578
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 11:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Rgr, that's cool. I just see it in a way that you need to be exactly as ninja to sneak up on an alert miner, regardless of what kind of tackle module you need to have fitted on your ship.
About that perspective, true. I personally don't see, or get, much value from miner/other non-combatant kills. Sure, you can get valuable mails (lolminer pods worth a bil), and popping those Macks is in line with the Law of the Jungle, but I just feel kinda empty after the pod is gone.
Was it worth it for me? Was it worth it for the victim? Was it good or necessary for the game?
It certainly doesn't give me what I'm after for in this game.
Not even relevant, just shiptoasting. And I'll probably still pop the next Mack I see on scan, because, why not.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Random Woman
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 11:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
Just alpha them, no need for points then ;) |
QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 14:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Yeah I am going to be honest here. The ONLY times I have EVER been killed while doing pve in a wormhole, was while I was not watching Dscan. Ive lost nighthawks and Drakes to c3 sites. After the fourth loss I had enough and decided to stop being lazy.
The people we kill in ladar sites are being lazy. The venture just makes it get away faster. I can guarantee you that if the people you are scanning are watching DScan, they cant be caught if you have to combat them. Even if you had rokh with all shield extenders in the mids and a running microwarp drive, you would not be able to catch him at the site if he was watching his Dscan.
Simply put, pray to bob to deliver you lazy farmers for your glorious venture wood chipper. |
Terrorfrodo
370
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 14:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
The Venture is a T2 ship disguised and priced as a T1 ship. It needs to cost at least 20m, not 500k. For that ridiculously low price it is insanely overpowered.
. |
Praxis Ginimic
220
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 14:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
this is OP |
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
153
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 14:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:
Thinking about it, i guess my main gripe stems from the fact i feel it has taken away from gameplay (for the hunters) and better kill mails. Sure, i could fit my ships specifically to overcome the +2 warp strength or organize a small fleet to kill a frigate but at the end of the day it's not worth the effort... Which is admittedly a matter of perspective.
On the same hand, why wouldn't you fit it, that occator will just warp away with its +2 warp strength an lol at your non TS scram. Let alone all the people that actually fit a stab for some reason.
QT McWhiskers wrote:Simply put, pray to bob to deliver you lazy farmers for your glorious venture wood chipper
Basically this, cross your fingers and pray you found someone who is lazy/stupid or both.
Ask me about Rengas-dar, HRDKX's Most recent, groundbreaking, game-changing, wormhole-collapsing research endeavour. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc
Bitten.
107
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 17:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
+2 warp core strength is not much of an issue.
The problem is it has more yield than a battlecruser, can carry more gas (magic) aligns almost instandly and is so hard to scan.
Yes a battlecruser would still get away if it saw your combats on d-scan, but it only took 1 scan with good skills and good d-scanning (from attacker) the venture takes 3-4 scans usually even with perfect scan strength and deviation. 20-30 seconds where the bear can check d-scan instead of about 8 seconds.
All this would be fine if the bear was fleet boostings his sig smaller and using modules to reduce it but no, all this is pre-build into the ship, there is no trade-offs, unlike most other ships in the game it gets all it needs without a single module. |
Sir John Halsey
16
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 17:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
Oxandrolone wrote:Sir John Halsey wrote:Oxandrolone wrote:The main problem is not the warp core strength and its so hard to tackle them....
The problem is with a perfect skilled virtue scanner you need to go to 1.00 AU which is mostly gonna be atleast 2 scans and then when you dictor lands with them it has about 3 seconds before it can drop a bubble meanwhile the venture aligns and warps in about 1.5 seconds.
The only way to catch one who is paying attention is too pre-bm the sight (so you dont have to scan it)
and then warp there in a cloaky T3 with +3 jam strength and decloak it with a bumb so it doesnt align and warp off before you cloaking delay ends. Or cloaky with smartbombs i guess might work. Tackle it is not a problem. If they are afk you can easily kill them. You have mods to tackle them ;) ... Actually you can do it with one mod only. If they are in your hole and you can't kill them, you are doing it wrong: In your hole you should already have the ladar/radar scanned + all incoming WHs. You can either warp to ladar cloaked, bookmark fly dictor and bubble or warp a regular ship to make them run back to the exit WH which is bubbled. Pick your poison. There is one more case ... smart people ... you won't be able to kill them anyway which makes all this chit chat about the +2 stab useless :) what if as in 100% of my case they are not in your home, and you need to combat them, you need 2 scans where your combats are on d-scan thats atleast 12 seconds. then you got to warp to them also on d-scan and even when you enter grid they can align and warp before you land and can drop a bubble, all of this without a single module. i dont minf if they fit warp core stabs, or jammers, or prop mods to get away. but now they got a stupid ore hold so they dont need to fit low-slots to make them better miners (expanders) they shouldnt only be killable while afk...
The same logic can be applied to anyone running a mag/radar site.
Your probes will be seen, you will be seen on dscan too.
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1581
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 17:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
It's almost like it was a special-purpose ship, no? Unlike a BC, it's actually designed from the ground up for mining and gas harvesting in hostile space! This reminds of ships like covert ops, Orca and titans- they are all much better in their roles than a battlecruiser would be.
40m sig is pretty big for a frigate. Scan sig strength is target sig radius / target sensor strength. Venture has 5 points, resulting in 8. Same as a Thorax. Talos has 10. Imicus 3.73.
Anyway, lolcombatprobes in wormhole space :D
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
153
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 18:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
Roime wrote:
Anyway, lolcombatprobes in wormhole space :D
I agree with everything you said but this, combats get used all the time in wormholes
Ask me about Rengas-dar, HRDKX's Most recent, groundbreaking, game-changing, wormhole-collapsing research endeavour. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Exhale.
558
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 18:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ayeson wrote:.
On the same hand, why wouldn't you fit it, that occator or mastodon will just warp away with its +2 warp strength an lol at your non TS scram. Let alone all the people that actually fit a stab for some reason.
Do you regularly find occators running sites?
You don't really need a point to stop an occator warping.
They see me trolling, they hating... |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |