Last time we use HIC and Rook with smartbombs...... 9 ventures killed with eggs :D

Lol, why nerf, it's the only thing to come to wh players in the past several eve major updates..

You are forgetting the 5k cargo that can fit a couple of sites at a time

And mind your Ladars, or else I will

Rook or Rokh? But yeah, this works well I guess. Scan ladar site, warp in cloaked. Createw corpbookmark, warp HIC in and bubble when landed is nice littel explosions.

But no I don't think it needs a nerf. Are they overpowerd? No. Can they be oneshotted by ArtyCane? I think so. So what is the problem?

If you havent scanned the site down, the ship in the site and its align time isnt going to me a difference. its still going to warp away when it sees probes, no? if not, he's AFKing and is an easy kill...

If you have the system scanned out already, then they're an interesting kill. Should they be nerfed? NO, i don't think so. You just cant use the normal strategy to catch one. Hey, while we're at it, should we nerf the blockade runners, or cloaky transports cos they can't be caught by one point...

WH tears are so weird. I expect it from HS, some even LS. Definitely in the entitled 0.0 space.

In all honesty, unless you are brain dead, gas mining is not that risky to begin with.

Looking at whkills, there were 51 frigates killed so far in January. 31 of them were ventures. They seem to be getting caught.

And there will never be a T2 Venture, so there isn't anything wrong with the current setup.

No tears here mate, i just like my games to feel balanced.

I bet for every one venture killed 10 get away...

Please tell be more about your inside knowledge of CCP's development plans.

No tears here mate, i just like my games to feel balanced.

I bet for every one venture killed 10 get away...

Please tell be more about your inside knowledge of CCP's development plans.

Ventures aint safe at all.
Just fit a sensorbooster and multiple 2 point scrams:

http://www.pr08e.com/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3812

And surely these guys were Noobs, but still...

Who flies in wecanhavenicetoys-space without +3 scrams?

Exceed, one stab invulnerabilitizises your from the sissy point. Thus one vanilla manpoint is not enough to stop the mighty Venture -> river of tears.

Again someone misses the point...

The blockade runner is a T2 ship worth over 100 million isk so no, it is not OP.

Let me ask a simpler question; Do you think the Venture needs the +2 warp strength to be an effective gas mining ship?

Was there a point to your first post?

All i heard was, "I want to be able to kill them easier..."

I think it needs them. its too glass to survive a light rain, so it needs some defense. The +2 warp strength is that defense. You just have to THINK about how you attack, rather than just, "WARP AND POINT FTW!" Think of it as adapting your play style.

I think if a pilot is skilled enough to scan down a frigate without being seen then they deserve that kill and shouldn't have to worry about overcompensating with 4 points.

Then try reading again because all i was asking is if all the abilities are necessary... Only 3 people in here have answered that question so far.

If you use a 3 point scram all you are doing is "WARP AND POINT FTW!" so i'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

I think if a pilot is skilled enough to scan down a frigate without being seen then they deserve that kill and shouldn't have to worry about overcompensating with 4 points.

But whatever, in all honesty i don't even waist my time trying to kill ventures and it's a shame that all a lot of people want to do is mine gas instead of pvp

So you think people are entitled to kills because they can scan? They they deserve to be spoon fed a kill because they can land on grid with someone?

Oh the tears.

CCP seemed to think all the abilities are necessary.

And DESERVE? Seriously? I don't care if you have a maxed out, virtue wearing prober. You don't deserve **** until the KM is on your character sheet.

Oh and you are looking for waste. Waist is the thing my belt goes around to hold up my pants. That is if I ever wore pants.

Do you think fitting an extra point requires more skill that combat scanning someone without them seeing you?

Though, I don't think a leopard is able to post on a forum about a gazelle running away from him, even after he spent three hours sneaking up on it. Personally, I think it would be embarrassing for him...possibly emasculating...but who knows? He's a leopard.

Great, you're proof reading forum posts now... How fun-filled your days must be...
Stop trolling and answer the original inferred question... Do they need all the abilities they have?

Answering my question with another question, I see what you did there. To answer yours, No, Its called being prepared. Starting forum post and calling for a ship to be nerfed because you cant fit a TS scram is laughable.

Yeah but when they leopard gets the gazelle, the gazzelle doesn't turn round and say "haha you just spend 100 mil on true sansha teeth to eat my 1 mil carcass... i make that every 10 seconds eating grass (gas)"

Great, you're proof reading forum posts now... How fun-filled your days must be...

Stop trolling and answer the original inferred question... Do they need all the abilities they have?

Why wouldn't i be able to fit a true sansha scram?

Again i ask, would the venture be good enough without the +2 warp strength? Not looking to get into a pissing contest with internet tough guys.

I don't have an issue with the current setup of the venture. Given that you can get it to almost 3 sec align time, even without the WCS plenty will get away.

And it isn't trolling. It is calling you out on your whiny, elitist, entitled attitude.

And it isn't trolling. It is calling you out on your whiny, elitist, entitled attitude.

So let me get this straight... When you finally get around to comment on the intended subject, you actually agree with me that the Venture doesn't need so many bonuses to be a good miner?!

... what a grade a tard

Blocked

Ill answer your question with another question. Why would they make a specific frigate designed for solo gas mining that dies every time someone lands on grid with it, guaranteed, unless you had more people on grid to defend it?

Design philosophy

• Identify or understand your problem.
Gas ships die alot because they get pointed, they are battlecruisers and warp slow Q.Q

• Devise a plan to rectify it.
Warp Strength bonus to new mining frig, also it goes fast

• Implement your solution.
Done, it works

• Review whether it was successful
Gas ships no longer ALWAYS die when things land on grid, WIN.
Gas ships are still killable and die a lot, Game not broken

Overall, I think its a good design

Thanks for finally being somewhat constructive instead of just being a smart arse.

If you thing a 3 second align time and a sig radius of a drone isn't enough for a active pilot to escape that's your opinion.

If you're not using bubbles to catch gas miners you're doing it wrong.

I don't see how the venture changes anything.

1) Get warpin
2) Squad warp sabre
3) Drop bubble
4) ???
5) Profit

If they're watching d-scan they'll get awayGÇöit doesn't matter if they're in a ferox or a venture.

If they aren't watching d-scan you'll get themGÇöit's as simple as that.

you don't catch ventures at a ladar site, you catch them at the WH the run to when you spook them with combats on D.

I can't really argue there.

I just hate the little *******. i know corps that have choose to gas mine instead of shooting sleepers because it's "easier". Now what am i to do with all my t3's?

oh you have new glasses :-)

My point is, where is the risk?

The only way you can kill one is if the pilot is not paying attention or if you have pre-scanned the site. I'm not saying that they are impossible to catch but i do feel they have too many bonuses. Why do they need + 2 warp strength with such a good align time?

The energy involved in setting up a successful gank is disproportionate to the cost of the ship IMO.

Also, one thing to consider is that it doesn't leave much room for a T2/T3 gas miner because the venture is already so awesome.

Last time we use HIC and Rook with smartbombs...... 9 ventures killed with eggs :D

What is the difference between a venture and a moa? moa is crazy hard to scan aswell, moa can fit stabs, moa aligns just as fast if you fit friction rigs like everyone does and costs fuk all, btw what fuktard mines in a t2/3.
NERF DA MOA!!!

The main problem is not the warp core strength and its so hard to tackle them....

The problem is with a perfect skilled virtue scanner you need to go to 1.00 AU which is mostly gonna be atleast 2 scans and then when you dictor lands with them it has about 3 seconds before it can drop a bubble meanwhile the venture aligns and warps in about 1.5 seconds.

The only way to catch one who is paying attention is too pre-bm the sight (so you dont have to scan it)

and then warp there in a cloaky T3 with +3 jam strength and decloak it with a bumb so it doesnt align and warp off before you cloaking delay ends. Or cloaky with smartbombs i guess might work.

Tackle it is not a problem.
If they are afk you can easily kill them.
You have mods to tackle them ;) ... Actually you can do it with one mod only.

If they are in your hole and you can't kill them, you are doing it wrong:
In your hole you should already have the ladar/radar scanned + all incoming WHs.
You can either warp to ladar cloaked, bookmark fly dictor and bubble or warp a regular ship to make them run back to the exit WH which is bubbled.

Pick your poison.

There is one more case ... smart people ... you won't be able to kill them anyway which makes all this chit chat about the +2 stab useless :)

Do you think fitting an extra point requires more skill that combat scanning someone without them seeing you?

I can't really argue there.

I just hate the little *******. i know corps that have chosen to gas mine instead of shooting sleepers because it's "easier". Now what am i to do with all my t3's?

I don't disagree with you mate and personally i don't feel that it's worth my time trying to catch one... But some people have posted KM's in here where they have fielded a half a billion isk fleet to kill one of these little buggers, like we should be impressed or something

Personally i feel that with their current abilities, it's more down to luck than player skill as to whether you catch a venture. (i.e. they are afk)

I think CCP could have made the venture just as viable without going to the extreme that they did and then maybe in the future they could have added cruiser size ship that performed similar to the venture.

you don't catch ventures at a ladar site, you catch them at the WH the run to when you spook them with combats on D.

. I, usually, pay attention to dscan so therefore I am hard to gank. Should I be nerfed?

As what comes to your skill argument. that doesn't hold water, sorry. +2 wcs poses an equipment requirement from the ganker, player skill requirements are exactly the same.

Thinking about it, i guess my main gripe stems from the fact i feel it has taken away from gameplay (for the hunters) and better kill mails. Sure, i could fit my ships specifically to overcome the +2 warp strength or organize a small fleet to kill a frigate but at the end of the day it's not worth the effort... Which is admittedly a matter of perspective.

Simply put, pray to bob to deliver you lazy farmers for your glorious venture wood chipper

what if as in 100% of my case they are not in your home, and you need to combat them, you need 2 scans where your combats are on d-scan thats atleast 12 seconds. then you got to warp to them also on d-scan and even when you enter grid they can align and warp before you land and can drop a bubble, all of this without a single module.

i dont minf if they fit warp core stabs, or jammers, or prop mods to get away. but now they got a stupid ore hold so they dont need to fit low-slots to make them better miners (expanders)

they shouldnt only be killable while afk...

Anyway, lolcombatprobes in wormhole space :D

.

On the same hand, why wouldn't you fit it, that occator or mastodon will just warp away with its +2 warp strength an lol at your non TS scram. Let alone all the people that actually fit a stab for some reason.

40m sig is pretty big for a frigate. Scan sig strength is target sig radius / target sensor strength. Venture has 5 points, resulting in 8. Same as a Thorax. Talos has 10. Imicus 3.73.

Anyway, lolcombatprobes in wormhole space :D

Do you regularly find occators running sites?

You don't really need a point to stop an occator warping.

I agree with everything you said but this, combats get used all the time in wormholes

I am just waiting for people to set their ships as interceptures in wait at gas clouds, it would seem like such a fun thing to do.

Yep, even for probing ships from noms and sigs.

1st you have to explain why is this a problem.

It isn't one.

Where did i say it was a "problem"?

Answer the question

The Venture is a Frigate designed for mining in hostile environments.

Development
Recognizing the dire need for a ship capable of fast operation in unsafe territories, ORE created the Venture. It was conceived as a vessel primed and ready for any capsuleer, no matter how new to the dangers of New Eden they might be, who wishes to engage in the respectable trade of mining.

The Venture has amazing abilities to quickly drill through to the ores and gases it's after, harvesting them at the speed necessary for mining in hostile space, and getting out relatively unscathed.

When hunting industrials, one always expect them to be stab'ed and one always fit extra points. The Venture has only one low and can have 3 warp points max. It's not a big deal.

Enjoy the venture paper thin tank and smartbomb them to HS.

A well thought out reply. Thanks for taking the time.

You may have inferred that i was "complaining" (not whining) about the warp strength but that was not my intention. I was forced to try rephrase my original question because so many people were missing the point.

I believe the answer to my question was "no, the venture does not need +2 warp strength to be a good gas mining ship." Sure it's a nice bonus, usually reserved for T2 ships (which is another point i was trying to make) but wouldn't a better design choice have been to give it 3 low slots and leave the fitting of WCS down to the player?

As previously stated, i will not put any real energy into hunting a 500k isk frigate but i miss the days of seeing gas mining battleships mining and not knowing if it was bait or not.

You do raise a fair point about me treating this like just a gas mining ship and perhaps it's not fair for me to do but lets not kid ourselves, this is mainly used as a gas mining ship. I have wanted a bonuses gas mining ship for a long time but i feel the venture is too good in ways it does not need to be.

Again someone misses the point...

The blockade runner is a T2 ship worth over 100 million isk so no, it is not OP.

Let me ask a simpler question; Do you think the Venture needs the +2 warp strength to be an effective gas mining ship?

Having tested out its mining capabilities, I find them quite lacking - not surprising given it's supposed to be an entry level ship in that respect.

From a gas sucking perspective, this little devil has no equal and I'm loving it for that!

Not sure where you are coming from here.

As a mining ship the venture is far better than the mining cruisers used to be. with max skills, and the right fit using drone mining augmenter rigs, and T2 mining drones, it can pull in up to 980m3/min combine that with the 5000m3 ore bay it is a great mining ship. Even for mining veterans. Considering this ship can fairly safely mine in low sec, where you can not survive 5 minutes in a mining barge, I would say its potential as a mining ship is far from lacking. Keep in mind a Rokh(previously the best non barge miner) with 8 miner II's only pulls in about 850m3/min

Considering a max skilled miner can not pull in much more than 1500m3/min in anything but a HULK without boosts 980m3/min is a dam good yield. Especially when considering the low skill requirements.

As far as gas mining goes it is only 6% better yield than a 5 turret ship with maxed gas mining skills. Mind you the gas going into the large ore hold is a nice bonus. As a gas miner it is only mildly better than what we had before, aside from its ore hold and GTF out ability.

There's no 'too good' possible. As everything realted to EVE economy, if the Venture is really too good to be true, people will use it, sell the gas, and eventually the price will drop, making the venture only as profitable as the people is willing to risk it, effectively making it 'okayish for the work'.

I guess I've become too used to the Exhumers and their level of output, so to me, the Venture is a bit meh on mining. I never mined with the old mining cruisers. (side story: my first mining experience was back in 2006 using a bestower and a mining laser at a belt - i had some guy attempt to recruit me at the time by orbiting me in a Vega).

A 6% increase for gas sucking is only midly better, true, but it still is a slippery little devil with its get out capabilities and the large hold that allows to have good 'staying' power. With proper boosting, I've got sub 20s cycle times on my T2 harvesters :)

What is this dribble? How does a hypothetical market crash on gas prices change how good or bad this ship is?

I can`t kill it. Nerf it. Tired of that argument.