| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
ELECTR0FREAK
   |
Posted - 2005.06.22 00:47:00 -
[61]
As a programmer and aspiring software developer, I'd like to point out that if somebody works hard enough to put something into a game, it is probably not going to just get taken out. Changed, tweaked, nerfed, maybe. But probably not taken out.
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 00:48:00 -
[62]
Heh.
I've pulled plenty of things out when they've been concluded to be undesireable. Letting go of something which is hindering the operation of the project is GOOD.
You learn from that as much, or more, than what works.
Say NO to target painters |
Sobeseki Pawi
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 01:29:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 22/06/2005 01:30:07
Target Painting should be for missiles. Not guns.
EDIT: Guns already have tracking computers.
~Sobe |
Wrayeth
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 01:35:00 -
[64]
Personally, I think MWD+Target Painter is currently fine. Before this, frigs were god-moded when MWDing in orbit except when the inty's target had missiles...and since missiles will soon do far less damage against fast-moving targets with small sig radii, the current effect of target painters on MWDing frigs is fair.
Keep in mind that afterburners do NOT cause sig radii of 1000m+; this means a frig can avoid battleship guns while orbiting since it's still possible to fly at speeds greater than 1000m/s. At the same time said frigs will not be 100% invulnerable since drones can actually keep up with such speeds. This solves both the frig invulnerability problem and insta-gank with battleship weapons while the frig is in orbit (as medium and light drones take a while to kill a frig).
So, again, if you think your opponent has a painter, fit an AB. Problem solved. Painters are balanced.
|
Blind Fear
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 04:03:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 22/06/2005 04:03:22
I think they work perfectly. I love getting raped by battleship guns unwebbed at 12k. With 3.5k of transverse, you'd think that I could perhaps dodge a tad bit of fire. But no.
I don't know why CCP bothered to completely rework turret tracking, only to put a module in that completely and utterly breaks everything they have done, all the painful changes and nerfs that they've implemented.
Reguardless of intent, Target Painters + MWDs are broken. Hopefully this is a bug. Otherwise it is a blatent act of outrageous stupidity. Originally by: Wrayeth
So, again, if you think your opponent has a painter, fit an AB. Problem solved. Painters are balanced.
Do missiles still predict and do full damage to frigates? Yes? **** off.
|
Sobeseki Pawi
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 04:20:00 -
[66]
Stop fitting an mwd if it is that risky.
~Sobe |
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 04:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The *simplest* and best soloution is to remove them. 6+ months of them being broken in another way is just a headache I don't want to have to deal with...
I just spent a few days training the signature focusing skill
Oh and it did get nerfed, the mwd bug was removed in addition to tech 2 going from 50% bonus to 30%.
It's useless now, thank you CCP, great work.
________________________________________________________
|
Blind Fear
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 05:18:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Stop fitting an mwd if it is that risky.
Do missiles still predict and do full damage to frigates? Yes? **** off.
If its fixed on SiSi, then we shall see what happens when the next patch hits.
|
Sobeseki Pawi
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 06:57:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Stop fitting an mwd if it is that risky.
Do missiles still predict and do full damage to frigates? Yes? **** off.
If its fixed on SiSi, then we shall see what happens when the next patch hits.
Risk vs Reward, as for the ******* off. Absolutely  .
~Sobe |
Bleakheart
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 07:49:00 -
[70]
At least BS owners are paying close to fair market value for their ships, and not 20+ million for a flying tin can. How dumb can you be now? LOL 
|
Vathar
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 09:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Personally, I think MWD+Target Painter is currently fine. Before this, frigs were god-moded when MWDing in orbit except when the inty's target had missiles...and since missiles will soon do far less damage against fast-moving targets with small sig radii, the current effect of target painters on MWDing frigs is fair.
Keep in mind that afterburners do NOT cause sig radii of 1000m+; this means a frig can avoid battleship guns while orbiting since it's still possible to fly at speeds greater than 1000m/s. At the same time said frigs will not be 100% invulnerable since drones can actually keep up with such speeds. This solves both the frig invulnerability problem and insta-gank with battleship weapons while the frig is in orbit (as medium and light drones take a while to kill a frig).
So, again, if you think your opponent has a painter, fit an AB. Problem solved. Painters are balanced.
Yes, fit an AB ... And how do u cover 70+km to scramble the BS your team is engaging without getting obliterated in the process or getting here to late because you have to go 90% transversal at 1200m/s at it takes you 5 minutes to approach and survive ...
and MWD+target painter is fine; at the moment, it makes large, low tracking guns hit you more often than frig sized guns hitting you unpainted!!! With a proper malus (NOT mwd sig penalty applied twice; read explanations on page 2 of this thread) you could get hit by lucky shots, which is faire, but would not be instafried in close orbit by guns bigger than your ship !! Frigate invulnerability (although highly debatable, I probably never meet that kind of frigs, nor do I pilot them :/) is BAD, but frigate instadeath to large guns with low tracking, no matter what they do, is NOT BETTER.
Oh, and last point, frigates ARE NOWHERE NEAR INVULNERABLE when facing a BS that devotes about 5%-10% of his fitting to ensure suitable countermeasures (nos, web, drones ... painters too, but those qre buggy atm) heck, even a multispec with decent skills will jam a frigate and still be useful for lots of other jobs ... I said 5-10%, but in fact, a single module can be enough to drive a frig away ...
____________
Space Shaman
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) yay, got my bunny too !! |
Sessho Seki
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 13:51:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Sessho Seki on 22/06/2005 13:52:20
Edited by: Sessho Seki on 22/06/2005 13:51:40
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Morons need to be banned from the forums. Please stop posting...
I'm all for anything that will stop "people" like you from posting. (and I use the term "people" very loosely with the likes of you that apparently drags your knuckles)
|
Nyxus
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 15:21:00 -
[73]
Ok people, here it is.
Superfast speeds in combat break the game. Drones don't hit, small guns can't track fast enough to hit the targets they were intended to kill, webbing a microwarp drive ceptor is pointless as they are still going 1500m/s+ even with the web applied. Dual mwd ships were nerfed because of the way extreme speeds break combat.
MWD let you travel fast while making you vulnerable to target painters. ONE mod. After the missile patch, you can use an AB and still evade the vast majority turret fire, and ignore the effects of painters.
Problem solved. Stop whining about not being invulnerable using a mwd anymore. Fit an AB. Adapt. Overcome. This is the way of Eve.
Nyxus
|
DrunkenOne
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 15:31:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Nyxus
Ok people, here it is.
Superfast speeds in combat break the game. Drones don't hit, small guns can't track fast enough to hit the targets they were intended to kill, webbing a microwarp drive ceptor is pointless as they are still going 1500m/s+ even with the web applied. Dual mwd ships were nerfed because of the way extreme speeds break combat.
MWD let you travel fast while making you vulnerable to target painters. ONE mod. After the missile patch, you can use an AB and still evade the vast majority turret fire, and ignore the effects of painters.
Problem solved. Stop whining about not being invulnerable using a mwd anymore. Fit an AB. Adapt. Overcome. This is the way of Eve.
Nyxus
Um what kind of crap web are you using where it only slows inties down to 1500? A 90% web makes a inty going 4km/sec go 400m/sec while still leaving them with a massive sig radius. The more common 87% web makes them go around 520.
Stop whining BS pilots and adapt.
I've got the no-sig blues. |
Dionysus Davinci
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 15:42:00 -
[75]
It would appear next patch, AB is in for combat and MWD is out unless you want a death wish. Which is shame, since a thorax is obviously designed to use one ;_;
|
Blind Fear
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 15:51:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Nyxus
Ok people, here it is.
Superfast speeds in combat break the game. Drones don't hit, small guns can't track fast enough to hit the targets they were intended to kill, webbing a microwarp drive ceptor is pointless as they are still going 1500m/s+ even with the web applied. Dual mwd ships were nerfed because of the way extreme speeds break combat.
MWD let you travel fast while making you vulnerable to target painters. ONE mod. After the missile patch, you can use an AB and still evade the vast majority turret fire, and ignore the effects of painters.
Problem solved. Stop whining about not being invulnerable using a mwd anymore. Fit an AB. Adapt. Overcome. This is the way of Eve.
Nyxus
Hell, lets just go back to pre-tracking nerf days then. That is exactly what these bugged target painters are doing - frigates are out, cruisers.... heh, yeah right, everyone into a battleship. Gank-mode tempests, armas, and megas 4tw! What, you cant fly one of those ships? Get out of my gang, you're useless! Yay, this is the way eve is supposed to be, 3 good ships and everything else isnt worth the space you're wasting.
|
Moadyb
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:00:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
It would appear next patch, AB is in for combat and MWD is out unless you want a death wish. Which is shame, since a thorax is obviously designed to use one ;_;
People, READ before you write. As Meridius has already mentioned, Target painters HAVE BEEN NERFED into oblivion (tested it on sisi). They are absolutly useless now.
|
Blind Fear
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:04:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Moadyb
Originally by: Dionysus Davinci
It would appear next patch, AB is in for combat and MWD is out unless you want a death wish. Which is shame, since a thorax is obviously designed to use one ;_;
People, READ before you write. As Meridius has already mentioned, Target painters HAVE BEEN NERFED into oblivion (tested it on sisi). They are absolutly useless now.
They do exactly what they were intended on SiSi now. They increase sig radius on targets by a lowish percent, allowing better hits and tracking.
What they dont do anymore is allow you to hit stuff you could never have possibly hit at all without them.
|
Nyxus
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:09:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Hell, lets just go back to pre-tracking nerf days then. That is exactly what these bugged target painters are doing - frigates are out, cruisers.... heh, yeah right, everyone into a battleship. Gank-mode tempests, armas, and megas 4tw! What, you cant fly one of those ships? Get out of my gang, you're useless! Yay, this is the way eve is supposed to be, 3 good ships and everything else isnt worth the space you're wasting.
The sky is not falling, the end of the world is not nigh. REPLACE YOUR MWD WITH AN AB AND YOU CAN NOT BE HIT RELIABLY EVEN WITH A PAINTER. GO TEST IT. However, small things (drones, small guns, etc will be able to hit you). If you keep trying to fly like you have been without adapting you will get pwned. Superspeed breaks combat. Period. The only reason you *needed* a mwd was to evade missiles. Thats being changed next patch.
As for Drunken...<ahem> his math beats mine.  However, I would point out a test I did with a mate. Using Medium Pulses on my prophecy, a web and all tracking enh in my mids, with my lows filled with t2 tracking enhancers I could not hit a webbed inty in orbit around me. Not once. So forgive me if I fail to believe that a BS can hit them reliably.
Simple Fix: Don't fit a MWD and you won't get hit. Adapt. Stop whining.
Nyxus
|
Sobeseki Pawi
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Originally by: Nyxus
Simple Fix: Don't fit a MWD and you won't get hit. Adapt. Stop whining.
Nyxus
This isnt adapting. Changing playstyles after the missile patch is adapting. Changing playstyles to suit a module that returns the tracking system to its 2003 days is unadapting and devolution.
You do know that the Painter was changed right? Your precious widdle bundles of frig joy are safe again.
~Sobe |
Blind Fear
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:27:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
You do know that the Painter was changed right? Your precious widdle bundles of frig joy are safe again.
Originally by: Blind Fear
They do exactly what they were intended on SiSi now. They increase sig radius on targets by a lowish percent, allowing better hits and tracking.
What they dont do anymore is allow you to hit stuff you could never have possibly hit at all without them.
No, I hadnt realized that.
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:39:00 -
[82]
I can't believe the whinage about target painters...
How many people actually use them in PvP? Very few.
Their main advantage in in NPCing.
It is not like they are god like either.
With TWO Tech II target painters + Sig Focusing at IV my BS guns (pulses) still miss orbiting frigs.
It is ONE module FFS. I took them off my battleship because they did me absolutely zero benefit in PvP against other battleships (which to be honest is what most battleships tend to fight).
If a battleship pilot goes out and sets up his BS simply to own frigs then why can't he do that? It is not something I see happening that much but it is another OPTION.
These scaremongers here talking about how everyone will be flying BS because of target painters need to really GET A GRIP.
Thanks to the new ECM the underlying trend is actually AWAY from BS atm. When a Rifter can keep a Geddon jammed for an entire battle what is the point in being in a Geddon - and for that matter what the hell is the point in even using target painters anyway when you cant actually use them on anyone.
Frigate pilots need to stop scaring themselves and everyone else with this 'target painters' own all.
Yes OCCASIONALLY they may get ganked by a BS equipped with Target Painters - so what? Its just another scissors sticks and stones option and one of those risks you face...
1) Target Painters are not uber. There is a bug vs MWD that is being fixed. They are not a 'win' button vs frigs
2) Target Painters are not likely to become a standard fitting on BS. I certainly haven't seen any evidence that they have. In a fleet battle a BS wants to kill other BS and most BS pilots do not set up their BS to counter frigs (which its own escort should be dealing with). I used target painters and I took them off for something that gave me an advantage against other BS.
3) Target Painters have many counters. If your in an inty you have a faster lock then any BS (even with sensor boosters). Jam or even God forbid be original and tracking disrupt the BS. If its jammed or tracking disrupted even painters arent gonna do it any good.
Please god stop this silly 'nerf' nonsense...
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:48:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 22/06/2005 16:54:02
Originally by: Hardin
How many people actually use them in PvP? Very few.
You couldn't be more wrong tbh. They're a musthave for all sniperships nowadays, all longrange fleets fit TP over Tracking Comps now, and both close and longrange fleets fit them as anti-frig defense.
Originally by: Hardin
It is not like they are god like either.
They are. 1400mm's hitting an orbitting frig at 5km isnt godlike? Ofcourse, thats a bug that's thankgod getting fixed.
Originally by: Hardin
3) Target Painters have many counters. If your in an inty you have a faster lock then any BS (even with sensor boosters). Jam or even God forbid be original and tracking disrupt the BS. If its jammed or tracking disrupted even painters arent gonna do it any good.
You don't have a counter if you can't lock something over 25km can you? All these counters work for a BS vs BS, they don't help a frigate unless it's already nearly safe anyway. (Safe being under 20km)
This fix still leaves the issue with Conquerable Stations though.
/Elve
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 16:59:00 -
[84]
Well Elve maybe I am wrong about how many people are fitting them but then I tend to be shooting a lot of gate camping pirates and Minnie terrorists at close quarters so maybe my experience is not typical of deep 0.0. In my area of combat I have certainly seen very little evidence of their usage.
Nevertheless I still do not think the module (with the MWD bug fixed) is too overpowered. Its simply an option which gives BS an opportunity to hit frigs. To do so they have to sacrifice something else.
I agree that you should not be hitting an orbiting frig at 5km with BS guns but as I stated I have tested this myself with megapulses (one of the best tracking BS guns) + 2 x tech II TP and good skills and never got near hitting an orbiting Inty...
|
Shayla Sh'inlux
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 17:01:00 -
[85]
Yeah it's really fun, when you aim a couple of TP's at a station and every hit you do is a wrecking one.
It's also a lot of fun to be a 10mil specialized tackler that gets insta-fried by cruiser sized guns because someone fit a TP.
I also have an awesome time when 5 snipers aim TP's and their guns at me and every single 1400 II hits for 1800 damage.
I have said TP's were broken and completely ruin PvP from day 1, but alas, the thing is still around.
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 17:02:00 -
[86]
Once the MWD bug gets fixed, and apparently it is on SiSi, all is fine.
Problem is that without the bug i suspect it will be a rather pointless module.  Go figure.
/Elve
|
Wrayeth
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 17:28:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 22/06/2005 17:30:12
Yay for the target painter nerf! Now frigs will be totally god-moded since missiles will hardly be doing any damage to them and drones still won't be able to keep up (much less do decent damage).
It appears the Devs believe it's all about flying small ships...and, personally, I hate flying frigs. The only reason I have an interceptor at all is because my slow battleship can't catch said god-moded frigs.
I'm sorry, CCP, but I'm seriously thinking about permanently cancelling my subscription. I love(d) flying battleships, and now they'll be worthless.
|
Famine Aligher'ri
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 17:34:00 -
[88]
Wow and this is the leader of PIE? Good thing they only accept one race. Hate to serve under his command.
As the elfboy pointed out, people DOOO use "Target Painters" in combat. It's the best frig support as well hitting anything you can hit due to speed/agility like HAC/CRUISERS orbiting a bit to fast for your blood.
Oh yes, Frigs for example. One of the other ships that are effected by this mod. Can use ECM jammer to jam an opponent. However, why on earth would you use a ECM Mod, to cycle jam a ship for a luck based 1 cycle? What would be the point in killing half your cap for 1 cycle then the rest failing? You would just die the next failed cycle.
Tell ya man, people are smart on EVE.
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Famine Aligher'ri
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 17:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Edited by: Wrayeth on 22/06/2005 17:30:12
Yay for the target painter nerf! Now frigs will be totally god-moded since missiles will hardly be doing any damage to them and drones still won't be able to keep up (much less do decent damage).
It appears the Devs believe it's all about flying small ships...and, personally, I hate flying frigs. The only reason I have an interceptor at all is because my slow battleship can't catch said god-moded frigs.
I'm sorry, CCP, but I'm seriously thinking about permanently cancelling my subscription. I love(d) flying battleships, and now they'll be worthless.
Didn't see this post!
Hey Wrayeth, do you know what these counter mesures are?
- Webber (There is even 12KM webber isn't there?)
- Light to Medium Drones
- NoS
- ECM - Jammers
- Fitting for Combat
Frigs are far from "Godlike" we just have to many un-experienced pilots in the game who think because they fail. We all fail. Thanks for adding to the BS!
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.06.22 18:08:00 -
[90]
There's actually a 40km Webber.
For the rest of us, ie the mortals, there's also a 15km Domination Webber, which deals with those frigates quite nicely.
/Elve
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |