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WizClone
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Posted - 2005.06.24 03:04:00 -
[61]
the mega might need some help. Allow the mega not to receive the malus from a MWD, it would help a little bit.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.06.24 03:25:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Noriath on 24/06/2005 03:25:06
 Originally by: slip66
T2 defense needs to be kicked out soon... like this next patch. Doubt it will happen but it really needs to be on priority. PVP has become very stagnate with these all dmg setups.
What good will tech 2 tanks do? A large Tech 2 armor rep alone costs 50 mil, two reps on a good tank - 100 mil uninsured items onboard and still likely to die. 
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.06.24 04:42:00 -
[63]
Mega is a pretty unimpressive pvp ship IMO apart from 2 scenarios.
gank mode w/ 425's at long range.
gank mode w/ neutrons + covert ops at short range.
Anything else it just doesnt cut it tbh.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Latest Video: Vertigo in Stain |
Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.06.24 05:02:00 -
[64]
gankathron(blasters) is better then gankageddon cuz thorn>HAC/intys>geddon
MAXSuicide > I LOVE U SIIM
MAXSuicide > lets go outback for a quicky
siim > that was so desperate attempt
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Core Bash
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Posted - 2005.06.24 06:32:00 -
[65]
This thread sparked my interest, as I'm a Megathron pilot by heart. So I did a little test..
I, in my Neutron Blaster II'ed Megathron, fought my corp mate (with many less skill points across the board) in his standard shield tanked Raven. We started within blaster range. I have many millions of skill points in gunnery, and his tank withstood the damage long enough to bring me down.
Maybe a gank setup wasn't appropriate? I didn't have much luck with an Electron Blaster II'ed Megathron (with a full armor tank). Again the fight started within blasting range, which is of course usually unrealistic, and his tank easily held up long enough for me to run out of cap booster 800's. So I tried a cap recharger II setup with no prevail.
This isn't a reply to curse out the Raven. It's a damn fine (and scary) ship. This reply is to agree with the opinion that large blaster simply don't do what they were designed to do. "No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters." Have you seen a close range gank tempest with a moderate shield tank? Now that's sheer destructive power.
Large blasters don't deal enough damage to be the king of short range carnage. I say tweak the damage mod and let these bad boys do what they were designed to do.
á
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.06.24 06:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Core Bash
This thread sparked my interest, as I'm a Megathron pilot by heart. So I did a little test..
I, in my Neutron Blaster II'ed Megathron, fought my corp mate (with many less skill points across the board) in his standard shield tanked Raven. We started within blaster range. I have many millions of skill points in gunnery, and his tank withstood the damage long enough to bring me down.
Maybe a gank setup wasn't appropriate? I didn't have much luck with an Electron Blaster II'ed Megathron (with a full armor tank). Again the fight started within blasting range, which is of course usually unrealistic, and his tank easily held up long enough for me to run out of cap booster 800's. So I tried a cap recharger II setup with no prevail.
This isn't a reply to curse out the Raven. It's a damn fine (and scary) ship. This reply is to agree with the opinion that large blaster simply don't do what they were designed to do. "No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters." Have you seen a close range gank tempest with a moderate shield tank? Now that's sheer destructive power.
Large blasters don't deal enough damage to be the king of short range carnage. I say tweak the damage mod and let these bad boys do what they were designed to do.
try fitting 6dm mods, his raven will die be4 he can even down your shields
MAXSuicide > I LOVE U SIIM
MAXSuicide > lets go outback for a quicky
siim > that was so desperate attempt
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.06.24 08:21:00 -
[67]
um... if raven pilots has some brains and gank setup with em/expl. combo and standard sieges will kill untanked mega in 3-4 salvos. That is 40s. In that time, gankatron with neutrons should kill raven.
With electrons... mhmmm, best way is tank like crazy(2x LAR II, 4x hardeners...) and try to outcap him. If he is not tanked for kin/th, he should run out of cap after a 90sec or so. And with tankathron, praetors are your big friend. And don't bother to orbit raven he will hit you, so just sit 2km from him.
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.06.24 09:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: mavskji
The Gunnery skills is for tracking not ROF.
I'm about 99.999% sure you're wrong there 
I did a test with my alt. When I went from level 3 to level 4 I noted the stats of my turrets from Show Info.
The total change to my turrets going from gunnery 3 to gunnery 4 was: nothing.
It did not effect tracking speed and it did not affect RoF. I am 100% I did not get the level 4 show info as level 3. For double checking I will have to reverse-engineer the turret stats, though, at this stage.
Gunnery is 2% RoF per level - reverse engineered turret stats:
150mm railgun II on an Ares with no damage mods - RoF 3.21
Base RoF of 150mm railgun II: 4.25
Relevant skills: Gunnery 5, Rapid firing 4
4.25 * 0.84 = 3.57
3.57 * 0.9 = 3.213
Anyway, as far as blasterthron goes, with covert ops it's scary - without, it's a (generally rather expensive) loss mail waiting to happen, in my opinion.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.06.24 12:44:00 -
[69]
You think the Raven is bad now, last nigth on the test server one Navy Issue Raven fought off 2 megas and several other BS with an awesome tank and was killing BS left in right.
I tried blasters, rails, active tank, harnder tanked and lots of plates taht pushed me over 26k. The only one that let you live was the 26k plate one but the raven's awesome tank didn't let you punch through it. In fact, its reign of terror didn't end till I warp on top of it and hit it with 8 heavy netilzers. All he had was standard Fight Club hanager equipment which is named stuff. Which means no commander loot etc.
So now, not only does the raven have an awesome tank like an apoc it gets awesome damage.
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Conrad Baal
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Posted - 2005.06.24 22:11:00 -
[70]
Don't rails and blasters do kinetic damage? So its little wonder when caldari shields are strong against kinetic damage...?
Originally by: Noriath
Overall though: Don't fight in a hauler, it's not a good idea.
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.06.26 14:27:00 -
[71]
IŚd say its pretty obvious that L-blasters needs an overhaul and
dmg-increase since theyŚre not as destructive and they were ment to be.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.06.26 14:37:00 -
[72]
The mega is fine, blasters need a substantial boost in damage output |
Bracius
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Posted - 2005.06.26 15:03:00 -
[73]
or maybe other guns/missiles dmg reduction
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.06.26 15:22:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Dreez
IŚd say its pretty obvious that L-blasters needs an overhaul and
dmg-increase since theyŚre not as destructive and they were ment to be.
Originally by: Maggot
The mega is fine, blasters need a substantial boost in damage output
Originally by: Bracius
or maybe other guns/missiles dmg reduction
1 & 2: Agreed
3: Needed, yes.
Let me add: Gallente ships larger than frigates tend to need more CPU as they tend to be short on BOTH CPU and PG. Brutix, especially, is in crying need of a substantial CPU increase. Large Railguns might have gotten a slightly too large powergrid reduction.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
WizClone
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Posted - 2005.06.28 00:47:00 -
[75]
don't let this post die ffs, mega needs help!
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.06.28 14:28:00 -
[76]
I would go as far as saying its the Megathron itself that
needs help, except from maybe a tiny increase in Cap & CPU.
1: Increase dmg on all Large Blasters.
2: Make Launchers require Cap while Active.
This way, megathron will rock your world up closeŚn personal
as it were meant to do.
And Ravens will no more be able to focus 100% of their cap
to sheer tanking, but also keeping the offense going.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.28 14:32:00 -
[77]
If blasters are getting a damage boost then autocannons need their damage doubled, at minimum. The weakest blaster already outdamages the best autocannon.
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.07.13 04:12:00 -
[78]
Still dont see any "response" from any "Dev" about lookin
into the Cap and dmg issue on the megathron.
'Trying to argue logically with Evol is like trying to teach a pig to dance. It only makes you look foolish and really annoys the pig ' - Duke Droklar [OC]
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Madcap Magician
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Posted - 2005.07.13 04:30:00 -
[79]
Biggest problem is still the Gankageddon vs. Blasterthron.
I'd call for a restriction of one damage mod per ship, and a slight damage increase to particle blasters.
Put racial guns back where they were designed to operate, and let the specialization actually mean something.
My 2 ISK anyway
________________________
Your end is our beginning. |
Farjung
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Posted - 2005.07.13 05:35:00 -
[80]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
If blasters are getting a damage boost then autocannons need their damage doubled, at minimum. The weakest blaster already outdamages the best autocannon.
Mm, as you know so well, the ability to mix up the damage does count for a lot. Using a meta-Jeagerbomber on a tara (2 light ion II, elec II, tracking disruptor, web, scram, mapc, 400mm tungsten, mag stab II I think I was fitting, maybe one less ion and one more elec), I'm fine on amarr and minnie afs but really struggle against the resists of the gal and caldari to break their tank. And that lovely falloff does count for something I think.
Admittedly that's something of a specialist case. In the battleship arena, the pest gets another mid that could be oh so useful - either being able to mount a tracking disruptor/sensor booster alongside the standard close range modules, or a pretty solid short-term shield tank if you've got tacklers, or a fair number of jammers makes it a fair bit more versatile than the blasterthron imo, and compensates for the lower damage output.
It just seems a bit silly that a full gank railthron will beat out pretty much any non-EW blasterthron if the fight starts at over 10k. :\
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:06:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Fred0 on 13/07/2005 07:06:24
You guys must seriously be doing something wrong if you have that kind of problems with ravens. Unless the raven has you scouted and fitted specifically against you the raven is the weakest bs. The Geddon and Mega will just kill it in 20 secs in my experience. Gank > Tank. And the tempest will gank and tank. The tempest probably has it easiest though since the raven 600 dps is hurt by an xl booster on the tempest. While the 900dps on the tempest will rip the tank within half a minute.
The raven in gankmode only dishes out half the damage of geddon or mega. And noone tanks 1000+ dps unless they've scouted you.
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Soros
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:53:00 -
[82]
Victim:
Alliance:
Corporation:
Destroyed Type: Raven
Solar System: A2-V27
System Security Level: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: (laid the final blow)
Security Status:
Alliance:
Corporation:
Ship Type: Megathron
Weapon Type: Neutron Blaster Cannon II
+ a maller support, the raven died pretty fast
-= Soros =-
= Firmux Ixion =
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:01:00 -
[83]
beefing up the dmg or rof on blasters would be fair compensation for the risk of getting the damn things into range.
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Maggot
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:49:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Maggot on 13/07/2005 08:49:29
Agreed, if you look at the graph of distance vs dps the area under the curve for blasters is tiny compared for other weapons. If weapons are properly balanced the area should be pretty equal. Obviously there are a few other factors, reload time etc, but blasters have no advantage in any other area so should have a greater sized "damage window" than any other weapon. Give em some more lub.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.07.13 09:06:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Sun Ra on 13/07/2005 09:07:49
If a raven has vamps on u need to use them aswell... 6 Electrons + 2 vamps beat any other blasterthron setup when it comes to 1v1.
But yes blasterthrons are very disappointing, and ive switched to an autopest, 2s rof, 4.9 dmg mod, low cap usage, cap draining you just cant go wrong  Not gone against a mega pulse arma but i know it can beat any raven or mega if we start from 30km or closer.
Also from what ive seen tank + cap beats gank anyday for close range 1v1
Frank made me do it |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.07.13 09:50:00 -
[86]
... Blasters could use a huge decrease in cap use yes... but a damage increase?
Hell no! The damage you do in a blaster ship is awesome, and you should still be able to maintain some tank.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.07.13 10:46:00 -
[87]
Gank setups rule the battlefields of EVE. So much so that they have become a problem. Multiple damage mods are the key to these setups. Stacking penalty on damage mods is so small that it's easily ignored.
Greatly increasing the stacking penalty of damage mods is the sure way of reducing effectiveness of gank setups, without nerfing/boosting specific battleships.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.07.13 10:56:00 -
[88]
Edited by: JoCool on 13/07/2005 10:57:29
The new school Armageddons everywhere with tech 2 modules nerfed tanking extremely. The overall damage output vs ability to tank is in inbalance. In my opinion, a solution might be to decrease the Pulse Lasers' range to autocannon range and also decrease Torpedo flight times. Yes, although I do fly Ravens and Scorpions.
Or as alternative, see above the post about stacking penalties. Their stacking penalty at the moment is way to low to get considered.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2005.07.13 11:16:00 -
[89]
No need for more stacking penalties, what needs to be done is splitting the modules.
damage mod a: increases damage 10%, lowers rof 5%
damage mod b: decreases damage 5%, increases rof 10%
same with tracking enhancers, sensor boosters (especially those so that long range = longer targetting times)
This alone will help the mega a lot by bringing more balance between tank/gank
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Bracius
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Posted - 2005.07.13 11:23:00 -
[90]
just did some math:
raven with 6x malkuth sieges and no dmg mods and relevant skills at lvl4 does 240dps 0-100km
mega with modal electrons and skills at lvl4 does ~320dps in range 3km. And 1/2 of that in <10km area.
Yay so it does 50% more dmg... but you need injector to sustain tank for at least some time, while raven can sustain his very long with xl t2 booster. And still can suck you dry or fit 2x 350mm rails on or...
Tanking and ions don't mix because of 2 things:
1. modal ions don't drop
2. t2 ions need too much cpu. (me pets dread cpu )
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