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Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
179
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
About Exchanging Time Yesterday I spent about one hour chasing off farmers. They were usually flying frigates with a minimum of two warp core stabilizers. It usually went like this: I warp in, they warp off to the next plex. I chase them to the next plex, they warp to the first plex (and so on). Or we both sit inside a plex and our efforts countered each other.
The irony of this is of course: I'm not hurting their efforts by trying to run them off. I'm just exchanging my time for theirs. I can run off farmers all day long, the net effect on the warzone will be zero.
Obviously, I am the stronger party in this conflict, why can't I turn that strength into an advantage for my side? Does it not make sense that the superior party, the party that takes more risk, should receive more rewards. Rewards in terms of isk and in terms of contesting the warzone?
If this is not true, then the war will turn into a game of man-hours. The side who spends the most hours will win, and not the one who has the superior firepower, superior strategy, superior logistics or who puts more on the line. That is wrong.
This point is exacerbated in fleets. A fleet of three trying to chase off single farmer is a waste of time. They will spent three minutes for the same effect on the warzone as a farmer has in one minute. I don't think chasing off a single hostile with two or more people should always be a waste of time.
The Castle Metaphor If you catch someone attacking your castle and he has almost climbed your wall when you throw him off, he has to start at the bottom again. In FW the attacker can return to the top of the wall immediately, unless you guard your wall for as long a time as he has been climbing. But of course, if you do stay on that wall to guard it, the attacker will simply climb another unguarded wall, and you'll be running from wall to wall, never really stopping the progress of the attacker.
I propose that we can throw an attacker off the wall and make him start again at the bottom, as is proper when you defend your castle.
Possible solutions There should be consequences of warping out of a plex. I have two flavors of solution, but no doubt others can think of good ones too:
1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall.
2. The timer begins to count down to a neutral state as soon as neither side is in the plex This is a slightly less extreme version of 1. It means that a plex will slowly revert to the neutral state if you leave after chasing off the attacker, which means the attacker can return and salvage some of his invested time. In the case of the example chasing a farmer given above, this will only give you an advantage if the farmer had run down the timers a bit to begin with. If it takes a minute to warp to and go into a new plex, you'll win an extra minute on them for each minute you spend chasing.
P.S. I don't mind farmers. I don't mind them affecting the warzone. I simply think the risk-reward for farmers should be more balanced. Farmers have their own roles in EVE, I just think the extentof which stabbed, noob frig alt farmers affect the warzone is too large at the moment. Large due to chosen plex mechanics. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
316
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is in CCP's backlog, and our CSM representative Hans has been pushing this pretty hard. It should come soon. |
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy Samurai Pizza Cats
103
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
"The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex"
you mean the owning faction right? Cuz that would make it impossible to ever take anything... SLAPD - Star Scientist, I science stars SLAPD is recruiting -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2360715&#post2360715 |
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
179
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Casidy wrote:"The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex"
you mean the owning faction right?
No, if you defend (with noob alts) and an attacker from the opposing faction comes in, your defense is wasted. If a neutral comes in: no problem.
We don't only have this issue with attackers, we have the same issue with people using unskilled alts in noob ships to defend their home systems. If you want to attack or defend systems, you'll better be prepared to fight. If you don't want (or cannot fight) you'd better defend or attack when nobody is paying attention. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
113
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 09:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote: The Castle Metaphor If you catch someone attacking your castle and he has almost climbed your wall when you throw him off, he has to start at the bottom again. In FW the attacker can return to the top of the wall immediately, unless you guard your wall for as long a time as he has been climbing. But of course, if you do stay on that wall to guard it, the attacker will simply climb another unguarded wall, and you'll be running from wall to wall, never really stopping the progress of the attacker.
What really happens: I spot you (dscan), and I hide before you can throw me off. Then I continue once it's clear (decloak). Throwing me off would be podding me back to my home station, so I have to start the journey back to my farming ground/castle wall again.
Also currently the guards of Amarr castles are sitting in tavern (station), or just sleeping at post. They gather once a week and shout at each other angrily (forums) about the peasants climbing all their walls (farmers). They also think that by gathering into big patrols (fleets), and then carefully avoiding enemy castles (why arent Amarr fleets camping Isbra/Eszur/etc. stations?) they can somehow magically defeat those peasants climbing on their walls (roaming). They are all too lazy to actually be castle guards (playing FW). And since its a strange country with no kings who could boot them, or nobles to begin with, the real question is: why aren't these lazy guards take up the noble profession of highwayman, if they hate guarding those bloody castles so much? (quit FW, and go full pirate)
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Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy Samurai Pizza Cats
103
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Posted - 2013.01.13 09:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fair enough, but what abut he the people who are acutually not alts and plexing for control? I think a version of the idea would be if a person from the controlling side chases out the farmer or lone plexer that resets it. SLAPD - Star Scientist, I science stars SLAPD is recruiting -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2360715&#post2360715 |
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
179
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 09:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote: What really happens: I spot you (dscan), and I hide before you can throw me off. Then I continue once it's clear (decloak). Throwing me off would be podding me back to my home station, so I have to start the journey back to my farming ground/castle wall again.
Well, your guys is not hidden, he's clearly visible, people can see him leaving the plex. In fact, your guy would go into another plex after leaving the first, you would effectively be scaling a second wall while at the same time remaining hidden on the first wall if we use your analogy. I think you are making a poor analogy here.
Cynthia, I know you love your plexing alts and have perfected the Bantam/alt plex/deplex to an artform, but you are intelligent enough to see reason here, even though you stand to lose a lot (those billions you earn with those alts) if my proposed change comes through.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote: Also currently the guards of Amarr castles are sitting in tavern (station), or just sleeping at post. They gather once a week and shout at each other angrily (forums) about the peasants climbing all their walls (farmers).
You realize of course that the whole point of guards is not that you need one skilled guard for each unskilled attacker? My point before the analogy was: FW capture system is not good when primarly time invested counts, when low-skilled alt-hours spent (like you do) is an important factor in capturing systems.
About the lazy guards, I'll come to that point in a separate post, since I think its a separate issue.
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Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
179
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 09:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Casidy wrote:Fair enough, but what abut he the people who are acutually not alts and plexing for control? I think a version of the idea would be if a person from the controlling side chases out the farmer or lone plexer that resets it. It would mean a lone firgate trying to plex would actually get a fight and the idiot alt would get run out and see all his work tossed in the trash.
-edit- So there's a bunch of farmers roaming around some of your space, you warp up to the plex, chase it off, stay there for like 20 secs or so, the plex resets, you see he's opened another, pop over there repeat. it's still about you taking action and the farmers wouls never be able to keepup if you actively defending. im fairly drun know so maybe it's a terrible idea.
Let me explain it this way: if the Gallente Federation ask you to guard a weak section of their wall for 15 minutes, and 6 minutes into your guard duty, a hostile is beginning to climb the wall. If you run off as he is climbing, your 6 minute guard duty is wasted. He still needs to climb the entire wall, so if you come back with your friends within 15 minutes, you can still throw him off.
It is insane to reward defenders who run as soon as any attack occurs. Such guardsmen should not receive pay, nor should their services have any effect on the security of the castle.
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Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
113
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 10:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: What really happens: I spot you (dscan), and I hide before you can throw me off. Then I continue once it's clear (decloak). Throwing me off would be podding me back to my home station, so I have to start the journey back to my farming ground/castle wall again.
Well, your guys is not hidden, he's clearly visible, people can see him leaving the plex. In fact, your guy would go into another plex after leaving the first, you would effectively be scaling a second wall while at the same time remaining hidden on the first wall if we use your analogy. I think you are making a poor analogy here. Cynthia, I know you love your plexing alts and have perfected the Bantam/alt plex/deplex to an artform, but you are intelligent enough to see reason here, even though you stand to lose a lot (those billions you earn with those alts) if my proposed change comes through.
No, I will not. I was running 4 plexes with 4 characters in the ancient days where according to the likes of Cearain (spelling probably wrong sorry) and Veshta Yoshida it was impossible to solo a plex. And no, I hate the fact that I need those alts, because out of the 200 players online, 190 wants to sit in station, with dozens of them actually being payed by the enemy. You know exactly who are the ones in Amarr Militia who never had problems with casually fleeting up with the minmatar, or being in same channels as them, talking blatant lies about those who are actually willing to fight. Old mechanics were favouring people like me, because it took skill to clear a plex efficiently, the ragtag band of 3 SFIs and 2 Rifters were doing 1/4th of what I was doing.
Merdaneth wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: Also currently the guards of Amarr castles are sitting in tavern (station), or just sleeping at post. They gather once a week and shout at each other angrily (forums) about the peasants climbing all their walls (farmers).
You realize of course that the whole point of guards is not that you need one skilled guard for each unskilled attacker? My point before the analogy was: FW capture system is not good when primarly time invested counts, when low-skilled alt-hours spent (like you do) is an important factor in capturing systems. About the lazy guards, I'll come to that point in a separate post, since I think its a separate issue.
A skilled player can chase away farmers from multiple systems easily. Or plex multiple systems easily. Problem is you dont want to adapt to the situation (hint: if you make my life real miserable, I will not farm your systems, I will just go to better farming grounds), you want the game to be adapted to suit your needs. No offense, but for example limiting yourself to 1 account when you are facing an enemy that massively outnumbers you is sort of giving up. Those dplexing alts can pay for themselves via PLEX, and if the first 600 mil is the problem, I would gladly loan it for you.
And while I was writing all this, I killed a farmer and chased away another 2. http://24fl.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15888800 |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
464
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 10:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
The 'reset' is too extreme, would reverse the the problem and give defensive work the benefit of unlimited alts in mediocre frigs .. just run 2-3 around to insure that the lone attacking alt runs -> reset plex -> park one.
The autorun timer, as your original idea all those years ago called for (#2), is much more sensible and in tune with what is actually happening .. To use the wall analogy: Guard captain (defensive plexer) patrols the wall, when an enemy tries to scale it (attacking plexer) he coordinates the defence and throws him off but leaves securing the section to the grunts/guards (NPC's) stationed there.
If nothing else changes (rats are too damn weak!), then I'd have the defensive timer run at twice the speed when the 'guard captain' is around and regular speed when he leaves. Reduce the defensive LP if wanted.
We want to create an environment where attacking means committing capable/adequate forces or see an offensive grind to a halt .. we want the plex fights. Benefits for capturing a system (possible 6 points of WZC) more than makes up for that requirement and that is before the e-peen value of actually having done something other than let slip the alts-of-war.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:.... Do you honestly consider the solution to the might-aswell-be-gunless alts to be for the opponent to spam similar alts to counter them? Surely you can see that when "more of X to counter X" makes for very tedious gameplay. |
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Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
127
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 11:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:To use the wall analogy: Guard captain (defensive plexer) patrols the wall, when an enemy tries to scale it (attacking plexer) he coordinates the defence and throws him off but leaves securing the section to the grunts/guards (NPC's) stationed there.
If nothing else changes (rats are too damn weak!), then I'd have the defensive timer run at twice the speed when the 'guard captain' is around and regular speed when he leaves. Reduce the defensive LP if wanted. .
Those grunts should be the new players. When I joined FW, I asked what should I do. I was told to go run some defensive plexes. So I did. I died, I had many crazy ideas, I died again and again. But I took plexes, and guess what? I was happy that no matter how little it is, my contributions counts a bit. I still remember that feeling of "wow, I did something in lowsec and I didnt die!". Nowadays people join and want to know the fastest way for farming for a new titan, or get 758 kills per month.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: Do you honestly consider the solution to the might-aswell-be-gunless alts to be for the opponent to spam similar alts to counter them? Surely you can see that when "more of X to counter X" makes for very tedious gameplay.
When I was living in Ostingele, there were no farming around us. We made their life so miserable, they went to farm elsewhere. One of us were running down timers, while other was killing the "pirate" and "goon\AAA\TEST\whatever" main of the farmer. Third player was camping the stargate, and they were dying by the dozens, she even managed to get top killer of the militia for a few days. Speaking of which when were you in top 10 killers of your own militia last time, Veshta? I am already sick and tired of seeing my own fits used against me, or dying to the fleet compositions that were stolen from us after they managed to bring 30 to fight 6 guys. I wont tell all the tricks, but there are a lot of them. Obviously not all of us can fly 4 combat characters, or put 8 bombers into the right place, but even you could make a dplexing alt too. Thats the easiest solution, so thats what I will tell to people. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
464
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 11:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Those grunts should be the new players.... In the real world with a command structure in place, sure. But in a game where everyone pays to play the idea of that kind of slavery is rather draconian. Besides, CCP has said repeatedly that they will no dictate how/what/why people play the game and I'd say (have for a long time) that the whole defensive plexing part of FW is a forced mode of play .. especially now that we have docking denial and massive benefits for offensive plexing. Were timer to be accelerated with a defender present then the idea of leaving a man (read: nublet) behind to secure it would not be a big deal, hell I'd probably volunteer if no one else stepped forward .. did that plenty when the only LP around was from missions requiring a bazillion jumps through hostile space.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:When I was living in Ostingele... Why would I aspire to be top-killer when those are more often than not blob-monkeys, campers or worse? I generally avoid both friendly and hostile booster gangs because the mechanic is broken, I avoid blobs because fights are generally rather boring (ganks) and I don't camp anything other than plex buttons .. I am of the conviction that if any change is to be had, someone has to be the first to show that the world still turns after said change .. or to put it another way, I'd rather spend my time debating changes than to exploit the loopholes that are the cause of the debate.
And yes I could make an alt, of course I could, but I won't .. see above. Farmers must go.
Morality. Don't care if I am alone |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
588
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
As I understood FW farming is just 50-60mill per hour i.e. sucks compared to WH or null ratting. And you are trying to make it even less interesting. Well, good luck making your part of sandbox even less attractive than it is now! |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
130
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Those grunts should be the new players.... In the real world with a command structure in place, sure. But in a game where everyone pays to play the idea of that kind of slavery is rather draconian. Besides, CCP has said repeatedly that they will no dictate how/what/why people play the game and I'd say (have for a long time) that the whole defensive plexing part of FW is a forced mode of play .. especially now that we have docking denial and massive benefits for offensive plexing. Were timer to be accelerated with a defender present then the idea of leaving a man (read: nublet) behind to secure it would not be a big deal, hell I'd probably volunteer if no one else stepped forward .. did that plenty when the only LP around was from missions requiring a bazillion jumps through hostile space.
Noobie cant do anything else, you cant send him to oplex as he will just die. Point is when people join, they dont get told anymore to run plexes, they get told to join a corp and be the 75th "blob-monkey" on km.Its not dictating them what to do, its telling them what they CAN do.
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:When I was living in Ostingele... Why would I aspire to be top-killer when those are more often than not blob-monkeys, campers or worse? I generally avoid both friendly and hostile booster gangs because the mechanic is broken, I avoid blobs because fights are generally rather boring (ganks) and I don't camp anything other than plex buttons .. I am of the conviction that if any change is to be had, someone has to be the first to show that the world still turns after said change .. or to put it another way, I'd rather spend my time debating changes than to exploit the loopholes that are the cause of the debate. And yes I could make an alt, of course I could, but I won't .. see above. Farmers must go. Morality. Don't care if I am alone
Did you enlist to participate in a war, or not? Morality is not using exploits and dirty tricks, even if your enemy uses them against you. I would say refusing to put a little effort into FW is much more immoral, as there are hundreds of players who count on you while they cant plex systems. All the players on the other side of either the warzone, fighting, or the world, away from their computers, while you let the enemy gain ground with your bad attitude. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
466
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eve is alive because it never catered to the lowest denominator. Popularity is only a metric one should be concerned about in the short term when building interest or if one lives on FaecesbookGäó .. lessening FW's attraction for farmers, who already outnumber all other groups by a factor of ;insert double digit;, by increasing risk will be a good thing.
Once risk/reward is sorted and advantage shifted to be in favour of pew'ers, you can tweak numbers upwards to bring in more people .. that intake will then have the "proper' ratio.
Pointless argument though as FW has always had much more interest than it should have had, reason probably being that pew elsewhere had become gangrenous, but what started out with a majority population of pew'ers has been reversed to the detriment of Eve as a whole (if everyone can afford anything ...). |
SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2013.01.13 15:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:As I understood FW farming is just 50-60mill per hour i.e. sucks compared to WH or null ratting. And you are trying to make it even less profitable via various time sinks. Well, good luck making your part of sandbox even less attractive than it is now!
Good Lipbite;
I have to agree. While it might be dull to play hunt the wumpus from novice plex to small plex and back again--at least you know for sure where you can find someone to kill--if only you knew how or had a buddy to help you.
Until the new FW rules came along, I could never find any kind of solo fights. Now in Sisiede, somebody tries to kill me every 10 minutes. Maybe it is not completely fair to who wins in FW but it gives small pirate gangs plenty to eat, and lots of slippery victims to chase.
your humble servent SeaSaw |
Gunship
FATAL Warfare Hopeless Addiction
109
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Posted - 2013.01.13 16:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
To the OP +1, excellent post.
The only small thing I would like to add is that you should not be able to enter a plex if you have WCS or a cloak fitted.
Come join us for Amarr FW pvp-áaction. More info here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145548&#post2145548
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Mutnin
SQUIDS.
379
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hey I see that the Galentte farmers have moved to your boarders now.. Perhaps Hans can help you guys, or better yet just forget about FW for anything more than "Fourm Wars" because in game is not worth fighting over anymore. You simply can't beat the numbers of farmers. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
379
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
chatgris wrote:This is in CCP's backlog, and our CSM representative Hans has been pushing this pretty hard. It should come soon.
Sure it is and I'm sure he's working hard on any suggestions for fixes.. I mean he's managed to visit and propose his ideas to us on the forums so often after his free trip to Iceland. I mean I feel so informed as he's done such a great job..
Oh wait it's not re-election time, I guess it will be awhile til he posts wont it.. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
132
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:Hey I see that the Galentte farmers have moved to your boarders now.. Perhaps Hans can help you guys, or better yet just forget about FW for anything more than "Fourm Wars" because in game is not worth fighting over anymore. You simply can't beat the numbers of farmers.
I dunno.. If I could get all the Amarr militia Forum Warriors to do half of what I do, I think at least we could put up a real fight for once. |
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ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.01.13 18:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Mutnin wrote:Hey I see that the Galentte farmers have moved to your boarders now.. Perhaps Hans can help you guys, or better yet just forget about FW for anything more than "Fourm Wars" because in game is not worth fighting over anymore. You simply can't beat the numbers of farmers. I dunno.. If I could get all the Amarr militia Forum Warriors to do half of what I do, I think at least we could put up a real fight for once.
We played the game. It sucks. We aren't interested in wasting hours continuing to play it. Play your alts orbiting buttons, if you want. But its not for everyone. Thats why there aren't that many people playing the occupancy game. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.01.13 18:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP
The reason people keep doing plexes without pvp is because they can get away with it by hiding in back systems. Timer countback is one option. But its not the best option. the best option would be to let militias know where their complexes are being attacked.
If the countback is too draconian then we may find a single blob moving though and the side with fewer numbers can't accomplish anything. I think a notification system with a timer that loses about 2 minutes everytime you warp out would be better. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
316
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Posted - 2013.01.13 19:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:chatgris wrote:This is in CCP's backlog, and our CSM representative Hans has been pushing this pretty hard. It should come soon. Sure it is and I'm sure Han's is also working hard on any suggestions for fixes.. I mean he's managed to visit and propose his ideas to us on the forums so often after his free trip to Iceland. I mean I feel so informed as he's done such a great job.. Oh wait it's not re-election time, I guess it will be awhile til he posts wont it..
If you'd read the dev blog from October of last year...
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73491
Quote: We will be attempting to release two new features to the FW complexes that have been suggested many times by the FW community to increase PVP opportunities in complexes: Have plex capture timers count backwards to the default state when no players are contesting them
As far as Hans post - he posts a LOT on the forums, don't think I'll be able to find his specific post. But if you're not willing to take my word for it, then at least you've got confirmation that the devs have it in their devblog.
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senior moment
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
2
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Posted - 2013.01.13 19:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just a note, some of us who warp off at the first sign of trouble are not all there to farm. I am in FW to learn PVP, but my 6 mil SP is no mach for the hardened amarr like Cynthia, dan and Flyingpocket.. they may all be the same for all I know. I do not fit stabs to my ships.. So when I see them on dscan i will warp off. At least I feel I contributed something to the effort. and yes.. when there is a UK blob.. I will do my best to be in it... one day I hope to change that, but for now.. as a noob, that's what I got to do. Also both the amarr and mini militia chats are full of people, but very few join the fight.. hell they even shoot each other to get LP from the plex.
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Antares 04
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
47
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Posted - 2013.01.13 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:As I understood FW farming is just 50-60mill per hour i.e. sucks compared to WH or null ratting. And you are trying to make it even less profitable via various time sinks. Well, good luck making your part of sandbox even less attractive than it is now!
"Just" 50-60 million isk per hour? So 2 hours of plexing would be 100-120 million then, roughly a new battleship every two hours or multiple versions of anything smaller, save T2?
Perhaps you want an official pay-per-hour from the Militas as well, so that would be another 10 million ever hour just to be enrolled.
What about a huge bounty for every fully captured system as well or a 10 billion isk bounty on the IHUB's while we are at it.
The isk gains should never be what attracts people to FW. PVP should. You want isk? You play a game just to make virtual money? By all means, but those other 'more lucrative' places you mention are indeed better options for you, so I'd advice you to go look those up, because clearly FW is not to your taste.
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Antares 04
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
47
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Posted - 2013.01.13 19:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
senior moment wrote:Just a note, some of us who warp off at the first sign of trouble are not all there to farm. I am in FW to learn PVP, but my 6 mil SP is no mach for the hardened amarr like Cynthia, dan and Flyingpocket.. they may all be the same for all I know. I do not fit stabs to my ships.. So when I see them on dscan i will warp off. At least I feel I contributed something to the effort. and yes.. when there is a UK blob.. I will do my best to be in it... one day I hope to change that, but for now.. as a noob, that's what I got to do. Also both the amarr and mini militia chats are full of people, but very few join the fight.. hell they even shoot each other to get LP from the plex.
You will never learn anything with an attitude like this. 6 million SP is more than plenty. Your ships are as good as you get them, if that is insufficient, improve your character skills in the appropriate areas. While you do, enjoy the fact that your clones are cheap, and so are you ships, and you can lose dozens and be back for more lessons, because those are cheap as well, but very valuable to you as a player.
You want to learn PVP? Go do it.
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SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 20:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
senior moment wrote:Just a note, some of us who warp off at the first sign of trouble are not all there to farm. I am in FW to learn PVP, but my 6 mil SP is no mach for the hardened amarr like Cynthia, dan and Flyingpocket.. they may all be the same for all I know. I do not fit stabs to my ships.. So when I see them on dscan i will warp off. At least I feel I contributed something to the effort. and yes.. when there is a UK blob.. I will do my best to be in it... one day I hope to change that, but for now.. as a noob, that's what I got to do. Also both the amarr and mini militia chats are full of people, but very few join the fight.. hell they even shoot each other to get LP from the plex.
Good Senior Moment;
You would make a better contribution to FW and learn more about PvP if you would fit 2wcs to a rifter or merlin and go sit in one of the hot-spot systems. If you stick to the same system you will learn who is there all-the-time, and who is passing through. Let single players in very fast ships get close enough to tackle you. See how strong their attack is, and warp away when you think the time is right. You won't get any kills this way, but you get plenty of experience about the different fits, you kill lots of drones--and you get lots of tears.
You won't need a new ship very often, and you will earn big bucks too!
your humble servent SeaSaw |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 20:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
senior moment wrote:Just a note, some of us who warp off at the first sign of trouble are not all there to farm. I am in FW to learn PVP, but my 6 mil SP is no mach for the hardened amarr like Cynthia, dan and Flyingpocket.. they may all be the same for all I know. I do not fit stabs to my ships.. So when I see them on dscan i will warp off. At least I feel I contributed something to the effort. and yes.. when there is a UK blob.. I will do my best to be in it... one day I hope to change that, but for now.. as a noob, that's what I got to do. Also both the amarr and mini militia chats are full of people, but very few join the fight.. hell they even shoot each other to get LP from the plex.
No problem SM. There is nothing wrong with that. I used to do that as well when I first started and flew around in my active tanked kestrel capturing plexes. Take your time and have fun with the game. Anyone who curses you for warping off has self esteem issues.
The problem with faction war is not that you do what you do. The problem is what you are doing is actually the best way to win occupancy.
I think you might agree that after you learn how to pvp and have skillpoints and isk you will hope that you will then be able to make a larger contribution to the war effort. But that is not the case. No matter how skilled you are at pvp you will not really be more valuable to your militia's efforts to gain sov than doing what you are doing now. Hiding in plexes in backwater systems with no one there and warping off at the first sign of trouble is the most effective strategy for fw sov warfare. There really is no room for improvement than doing what your doing right now.
Again ccp was given a good way to make fw sov warfare something where pvp skill would count for something. But they declined in favor of their hide and plex mechanic. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1417
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
timer reset should happen when the contester leaves the plex or cloaks. Since if he can not stay inside he can not hold the plex and therefore contest/decontest.
(not on entering or something) a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
88
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 11:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
No, I will not.
I hate the fact that I need those alts, because out of the 200 players online, 190 wants to sit in station, with dozens of them actually being payed by the enemy.
You know exactly who are the ones in Amarr Militia who never had problems with casually fleeting up with the minmatar, or being in same channels as them, talking blatant lies..........
These are my favourite bits.
Your defo not mad though are you? Or taking it all a bit too serious or anything? Nope. Your 100% grounded, and well rounded individual.
NOM.
x |
|
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 13:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
No, I will not.
I hate the fact that I need those alts, because out of the 200 players online, 190 wants to sit in station...
What only ten people like this activity?
If only they knew how much fun it is to multibox alts while they play "hide and plex" fw occupancy.
You're sort of proving the point that ccp failed to make plexing fun. |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
238
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 13:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
to get rid of farmers ... get rid of the tier system ....and cut the lp store profit .... farmers will vanish ....
reverse timers etc are useless there are tons of farmable systems ..... and second level of farming is running missions on high tiers. IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Slade Antonius
In Exile.
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 15:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
senior moment wrote:Just a note, some of us who warp off at the first sign of trouble are not all there to farm. I am in FW to learn PVP, but my 6 mil SP is no mach for the hardened amarr like Cynthia, dan and Flyingpocket.. they may all be the same for all I know. I do not fit stabs to my ships.. So when I see them on dscan i will warp off. At least I feel I contributed something to the effort. and yes.. when there is a UK blob.. I will do my best to be in it... one day I hope to change that, but for now.. as a noob, that's what I got to do. Also both the amarr and mini militia chats are full of people, but very few join the fight.. hell they even shoot each other to get LP from the plex.
Of course there is nothing wrong with warping off sometimes. For example, I warped my frigate out of a plex this morning when a dessie came in. Common sense says that you should run when faced with a fight you can't win and/or you are facing a fit that counters yours very well. However, the only real way to learn what does and doesn't work and how to PVP is to do it. Don't forget that there are a bunch of noobs on the other side too. Take some fights against other T1 frigs and get blown up until you start winning some of them and figure out some fits that work for you.
Like someone said above, 6M is plenty of sp and if you planned well you should be able to fit one or two ships very solidly. And really if you are doing any amount of plexing, buying and fitting T1 frigs with a mix of meta and T2 modules should not be a problem isk-wise. A couple hours of plexing for Amarr at tier 2 will buy me a fleet of merlins to play with and it will be even better for you at tier 3.
Never ever fit stabs though. It gimps your fit and you learn nothing about how to fit a ship to win the fight. If you fit stabs, you are admitting defeat from the start and basically telling yourself that you don't have the skill to fight or the willingness to learn how to.
|
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
189
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 18:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:OP
The reason people keep doing plexes without pvp is because they can get away with it by hiding in back systems. Timer countback is one option. But its not the best option. the best option would be to let militias know where their complexes are being attacked.
This wouldn't help at all.
A. I regularly report people plexing in far off systems. Rarely, if ever does anybody respond. If I add that the plexers are stabbed farmers, nobody will respond. No one wants to spend 5-10 minutes moving to some back system only to see a plexer warp off.
B. It is not a valid strategy to counter the farmer's effect on occupancy, as I explained, you are merely exchanging time. There is no difference between chasing off farmers in a back system or just going there and plexing.
|
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
189
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 18:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:to get rid of farmers ... get rid of the tier system ....and cut the lp store profit .... farmers will vanish ....
reverse timers etc are useless there are tons of farmable systems ..... and second level of farming is running missions on high tiers.
You didn't read the OP very well. This is not to remove farming, farmers are a part of EVE. This is merely to at least give people that avoid fights a disincentive to do so, and to give people who try and get fights an incentive to do so. I don't care if the people that warp out are farmers or not, merely that not staying and fighting should have some kind of penalty.
This penalty will have a side-effect of reducing farming, but I don't think (and don't want) to stop it. |
Solosky
Express Hauler
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 20:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Antares 04 wrote:isk gains should never be what attracts people to FW. PVP should.
EVE PvP is slow and boring - otherwise every pilot would join RvB. Meanwhile virtual money are much more fun because they are indicator of toon's progress and at the same time can be used to purchase stuff. Also regardless of that people think war is a big business (check in-game menu for location of "faction warfare" bookmark) and it's always about money and if there is anything what may attract people to FW - it's easy money for noobs who are not skilled and equipped enough to farm sleepers for 90mil per hour or rats in null belts for up to 150mill per hour (Machariel with assigned fighters).
disclaimer: I don't participate in FW because for me it's overcomplicated and is too cheap to compensate standing hit. Also I expect it will be nerfed even more after all this whine about farmers. CCP like nerfs. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 20:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:ground ctrl wrote:OP
The reason people keep doing plexes without pvp is because they can get away with it by hiding in back systems. Timer countback is one option. But its not the best option. the best option would be to let militias know where their complexes are being attacked. This wouldn't help at all. A. I regularly report people plexing in far off systems. Rarely, if ever does anybody respond. If I add that the plexers are stabbed farmers, nobody will respond. No one wants to spend 5-10 minutes moving to some back system only to see a plexer warp off.
It would completely change the game. The smart militias would not all group together in one or 2 ssytems. They would break the fw front into about 7 different zones and plex/cover them. If were in kamela and saw someone was plexing sosala you could go fight them. But you wouldn't go 10 jumps out to chase someone. Smart Militias would communicate asking who is covering each of the plexes that is under attack and group/position their pilots to most effectively defend their space and attack the enemies space.
Also each person who plexed would not keep trying to plex thinking they could get away with the current hide and plex tactics. There would be no more hiding and they would know it. They would know that they will almost certainly be attacked and so would not try to take plexes unless they were ready to fight.
This would completely change the game into a fast paced chaotic pvp war.
Merdaneth wrote: B. It is not a valid strategy to counter the farmer's effect on occupancy, as I explained, you are merely exchanging time. There is no difference between chasing off farmers in a back system or just going there and plexing.
That is why I agree some sort of penalty for warping off when an enemy lands on grid (or on grid with the accel gate to your plex) should be applied. Say knock off 3 minutes or so.
The problem with the straight up countback that hans proposed is that if you leave your plex to fight some enemy plexing right next to you, your own timer starts to run down! The penalty should only apply if an enemy (or neutral?) lands on grid or on grid with your accel gate before you warp off. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
476
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 20:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:...The problem with the straight up countback that hans proposed is that if you leave your plex to fight some enemy plexing right next to you, your own timer starts to run down! The penalty should only apply if an enemy (or neutral?) lands on grid or on grid with your accel gate before you warp off. So an ADHD afflicted PvP'er-Plexer who chooses option one which is to get some pew, loot, bragging rights and tears should not in your opinion have to make any sacrifice for all that? Kind of greedy don't you think?
Would of course also work if auto-run only engages after a button has been contested, but whatever floats your boat
|
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
189
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
[quote=ground ctrl
It would completely change the game. The smart militias would not all group together in one or 2 ssytems. They would break the fw front into about 7 different zones and plex/cover them. If were in kamela and saw someone was plexing sosala you could go fight them. But you wouldn't go 10 jumps out to chase someone. Smart Militias would communicate asking who is covering each of the plexes that is under attack and group/position their pilots to most effectively defend their space and attack the enemies space.
Also each person who plexed would not keep trying to plex thinking they could get away with the current hide and plex tactics. There would be no more hiding and they would know it. They would know that they will almost certainly be attacked and so would not try to take plexes unless they were ready to fight.
This would completely change the game into a fast paced chaotic pvp war. [/quote]
If you make claims you have to support it either with argument or evidence. I see neither. Just opinion isn't doing it.
Smart militias can already do what you suggest, spread out and cover different areas. You are suggesting they don't spread out because they are missing automated intel?
Have you ever tried to chase of plexers that don't want to do PvP? They simple move on to the next system if you chase them. And the next. And the next. Generating a whole load of messages of 'plex under attack'. In fact, with the implementation needing a mandatory delay of 1-5 minutes of relaying warzone information, the board would mostly red all the time, and the actual informational content would be low. It also misses another important part of intel, enemy numbers and fleet composition. Bad idea all around.
Most people that don't want to fight plex in plain sight. They simply warp out only if you try and enter their plex. The fact that you know it, or other people know they're in the plex they don't care about it as much as you think.
|
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:ground ctrl wrote:
It would completely change the game. The smart militias would not all group together in one or 2 ssytems. They would break the fw front into about 7 different zones and plex/cover them. If were in kamela and saw someone was plexing sosala you could go fight them. But you wouldn't go 10 jumps out to chase someone. Smart Militias would communicate asking who is covering each of the plexes that is under attack and group/position their pilots to most effectively defend their space and attack the enemies space.
Also each person who plexed would not keep trying to plex thinking they could get away with the current hide and plex tactics. There would be no more hiding and they would know it. They would know that they will almost certainly be attacked and so would not try to take plexes unless they were ready to fight.
This would completely change the game into a fast paced chaotic pvp war.
If you make claims you have to support it either with argument or evidence. I see neither. Just opinion isn't doing it. Smart militias can already do what you suggest, spread out and cover different areas. You are suggesting they don't spread out because they are missing automated intel? .
Yes I am. If people see that a group is constantly plexing up in an area then eventually some pilots will go up there - or they will lose the system. But if you don't know if anyone is plexing 10 jumps away you wont go wandering there just to check.
Seriously think about this idea and my responses. Think especially about my response below.
Merdaneth wrote: Have you ever tried to chase of plexers that don't want to do PvP? They simple move on to the next system if you chase them. And the next. And the next. Generating a whole load of messages of 'plex under attack'. In fact, with the implementation needing a mandatory delay of 1-5 minutes of relaying warzone information, the board would mostly red all the time, and the actual informational content would be low. It also misses another important part of intel, enemy numbers and fleet composition. Bad idea all around.
Most people that don't want to fight plex in plain sight. They simply warp out only if you try and enter their plex. The fact that you know it, or other people know they're in the plex they don't care about it as much as you think.
Under the new system there would be no chasing. You wouldn't need to chase them to see if they dock up or plex. Why? Because you don't care what they do unless they enter into a plex, and if they do that, your whole militia will be immediately notified.
Consider this: lets say I am in Todifrauan plexing and I see an enemy (lets call him "rabbit") is plexing in brin. I may go chase him out of the plex. If CCP does the countbacks right I will not lose any time on my plex because no enemy was on grid with me or my accell gate when I warped out of the plex. But if I land on grid with the rabbit or its accel gate before he warps, he will immediately lose 3 minutes of time he spent plexing. (I will gain that time)
Now lets say I sit in his plex and keep running it. He wasted 3 minutes by warping out and is continuing to waste time running to a new system. Now lets say he shows up again in another system a bit further out. If he is far from me, I would ask people in my militia comms if anyone is close to go chase him out. People in my militia could then confirm they will chase him out again. Again he will lose the 3 minutes for warping out and waste more time trying to find a "safe" place to plex. Meanwhile my militia will just keep running timers and fighting people who come into the plexes we are capping. The rabbit will be getting nowhere while our militia will keep capping plexes.
Really just think about it. It will work and make faction war great. CCP just needs to do it. |
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
476
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
The straight up notification system is a dead duck for the reason Merdaneth explained, a better option would be a an additional column (or a hover text) in the militia interface giving you the net change VP/plexes the last 15/30 or 30/60 minutes .. if second is close to 2x the first then system is being actively plexed.
Still does not address the issue of plexes being run by toothless frigs though as they will and do just what Merdaneth said, run ad nauseum. Very few (if any) people have the patience to try to kill something that requires extraordinary measure to even catch for next to nothing.
We could demand that CCP spend all the alt cash they make on FW to have a permanent team assigned to improving FW .. in that case I'd be more than happy to look the other way while farm alts dictate what I can do (ISK) and where I can go (docking) |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
915
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:"We could demand" Who is "we"? All the forum whores who never log in and/or are not part of FW? |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Merdaneth wrote:ground ctrl wrote:
It would completely change the game. The smart militias would not all group together in one or 2 ssytems. They would break the fw front into about 7 different zones and plex/cover them. If were in kamela and saw someone was plexing sosala you could go fight them. But you wouldn't go 10 jumps out to chase someone. Smart Militias would communicate asking who is covering each of the plexes that is under attack and group/position their pilots to most effectively defend their space and attack the enemies space.
Also each person who plexed would not keep trying to plex thinking they could get away with the current hide and plex tactics. There would be no more hiding and they would know it. They would know that they will almost certainly be attacked and so would not try to take plexes unless they were ready to fight.
This would completely change the game into a fast paced chaotic pvp war.
If you make claims you have to support it either with argument or evidence. I see neither. Just opinion isn't doing it. Smart militias can already do what you suggest, spread out and cover different areas. You are suggesting they don't spread out because they are missing automated intel? . Yes I am. If people see that a group is constantly plexing up in an area then eventually some pilots will go up there - or they will lose the system. But if you don't know if anyone is plexing 10 jumps away you wont go wandering there just to check. Seriously think about this idea and my responses. Think especially about my response below. Merdaneth wrote: Have you ever tried to chase of plexers that don't want to do PvP? They simple move on to the next system if you chase them. And the next. And the next. Generating a whole load of messages of 'plex under attack'. In fact, with the implementation needing a mandatory delay of 1-5 minutes of relaying warzone information, the board would mostly red all the time, and the actual informational content would be low. It also misses another important part of intel, enemy numbers and fleet composition. Bad idea all around.
Most people that don't want to fight plex in plain sight. They simply warp out only if you try and enter their plex. The fact that you know it, or other people know they're in the plex they don't care about it as much as you think.
Under the new system there would be no chasing. You wouldn't need to chase them to see if they dock up or plex. Why? Because you don't care what they do unless they enter into a plex, and if they do that, your whole militia will be immediately notified. Consider this: lets say I am in Todifrauan plexing and I see an enemy (lets call him "rabbit") is plexing in brin. I may go chase him out of the plex. If CCP does the countbacks right I will not lose any time on my plex because no enemy was on grid with me or my accell gate when I warped out of the plex. But if I land on grid with the rabbit or its accel gate before he warps, he will immediately lose 3 minutes of time he spent plexing. (I will gain that time) Now lets say I sit in his plex and keep running it. He wasted 3 minutes by warping out and is continuing to waste time running to a new system. Now lets say he shows up again in another system a bit further out. If he is far from me, I would ask people in my militia comms if anyone is close to go chase him out. People in my militia could then confirm they will chase him out again. Again he will lose the 3 minutes for warping out and waste more time trying to find a "safe" place to plex. Meanwhile my militia will just keep running timers and fighting people who come into the plexes we are capping. The rabbit will be getting nowhere while our militia will keep capping plexes. Really just think about it. It will work and make faction war great. CCP just needs to do it.
I would add that What information the notice gave would be subject to debate. Personally I would like to know at least the name of the pilot and the type of plex that was entered or left. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:"We could demand" Who is "we"? All the forum whores who never log in and/or are not part of FW?
I thought the relevant population was all the people who use their alts to farm faction war. Their interests are your main concern right? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
915
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:I thought the relevant population was all the people who use their alts to farm faction war. Their interests are your main concern right? No, not really. At least they log in and play the game which is more than I can say for the forum whores that seem to infest every thread concerning FW. |
Dzajic
90
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 02:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
Having plex timer reset if hostiles are alone inside would be insane boost to defense and for blobs. Just have one large fleet, you only have to visit each site in constellation once in 15-20 minutes , kill the person or small gang inside and then just move on, site is cleared as far as you are concerned. You could just patrol with a blob and prevent any offensive plexing whatsoever. |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
191
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 05:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Have the timer 'count down' at the standard rate as if you were running the site back to neutral. But if you are active in the site it counts to neutral 2x as fast. Once neutral it counts 'up' (i.e. you are running the site to d-plex the system.) at normal rates.
This means if you just chase off the plexer it counts down as if you are there. But if you actualy spend the time to defend it then it runs down faster but Defensive plexing takes the same time as normal. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 17:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:I thought the relevant population was all the people who use their alts to farm faction war. Their interests are your main concern right? No, not really. At least they log in and play the game which is more than I can say for the forum whores that seem to infest every thread concerning FW.
I played it for hours and hours and hours. It still sucks. You still win by hiding alts in back systems and farming plexes. Do you deny this?
Sorry but that does not sound fun to most people. The game has no merit. That is why it is really just you and about 4 others that really care about who is winning faction war. The others are just fariming plexes, or using plexes as a way to get some random pvp.
I played it and it is still broken.
|
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
325
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 17:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:or using plexes as a way to get some random pvp.
Why is this a bad thing? |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
923
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 17:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:I played it and it is still broken. You've been complaining for 3+ years and it still isn't up to your standards. Maybe it's time for you to move on to some other game?
|
|
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 18:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
chatgris wrote:ground ctrl wrote:or using plexes as a way to get some random pvp.
Why is this a bad thing?
I am not saying its necessarilly bad. It is what I did in fw before and after inferno. I used to be happy collecting the killmails even though fw was broken.
But now I want the game fixed. I want to fight for occupancy as best as I can. And I want the way to do that to be something other than putting alts in back systems and running from any pvper that might arrive. As long as that is the best way to win the war the game is broken imo.
Also going in plexes to get fights does seem backward doesn't it? The game should be that we fight in order to capture plexes not we go in plexes to get fights. Woudln't you agree?
Currently it is essentially like RvB. Fights with no real context as to *why* you are fighting. The fighting for no underlying purpose is too contrived.
Perhaps it breaks the immersion for me. I don't know, the few fights I get per 2 hour session just isn't cutting it anymore.
Make faction war involve more fights and give the fights some meaning. Then it will have merit. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 18:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:I played it and it is still broken. You've been complaining for 3+ years and it still isn't up to your standards. Maybe it's time for you to move on to some other game?
They really did nothing to fix what was broken. They just threw isk at the same broken mechanic.
Maybe you should hide your alts in backwater systems and win the war for gallente if you like the game so much. Go enjoy it.
But your constant whining that other people don't share your love of the current mechanic, isn't really adding to the discussion. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
923
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 18:16:00 -
[53] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:I played it and it is still broken. You've been complaining for 3+ years and it still isn't up to your standards. Maybe it's time for you to move on to some other game? They really did nothing to fix what was broken. They just threw isk at the same broken mechanic. I know. So please quit posting in protest. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 19:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:I played it and it is still broken. You've been complaining for 3+ years and it still isn't up to your standards. Maybe it's time for you to move on to some other game? They really did nothing to fix what was broken. They just threw isk at the same broken mechanic. I know. So please quit posting in protest.
Because you know the game is still broken, I should stop posting about it? Another non sequitur from XG.
Really enough posting about people posting. If you want to address some of the points raised about the actual game mechanics then do that.
But like I said above (and you cut out of my quote) you aren't adding anything to the discussion when you just keep moaning that everyone doesn't share your love for the current game mechanics.
Try to post about the game mechanics we are discussing instead of posting your feelings about the people posting, and your input might actually have some value. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
923
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 19:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Because you know the game is still broken, I should stop posting about it? Another non sequitur from XG. You don't play the game, and the vast majority of people who do play the game know that it is mostly working ok.
Since you think the game is broken, and since you don't play the game anyways, why don't you vote with your wallet instead and quit the game instead?
|
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
879
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 06:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
Gunship wrote:To the OP +1, excellent post.
The only small thing I would like to add is that you should not be able to enter a plex if you have WCS or a cloak fitted.
DUDE, GET OUT OF MY COMMS!
We were discussing this re: Nezmor's stabbed plex alts just yesterday. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
879
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 07:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
Defensive plexing having lower LP rewards than offensive plexing makes sense. At least on the face of it. Dust afffecting VP and system capture makes sense. At least on the face of it.
Except now we are lumbered with Dust, we cannot actually do anything to alter the dust planet modifier which, eg, in Aset, is apparently against Minmatar, making the offensive plexers do 25% more VP damage, and reducing our deplexing effort 25%.
This, frankly, is ridiculous in a situation where we cannot - literally cannot due to the half-arsed implementation of the Dust beta - organise an effective defence of the system on the planets. BUGRY has 10 Dust members, and they are stationed randomly about space, taking random missions, in random places, to do random things. The corporation cannot direct their efforts towards the systems we want to defend and deplex.
Thus, deplexing is a woeful time sink. Truly woeful. 3 hours, a dozen plexes, 2% off contestation. Thanks, CCP, I really love the awesome tie-in you have here. Then, when Cynthia signs on her plexing horde, it will probably flip tonight because the momentum is with the plexing alts (plus the LP's and the fact he deploys so many stabbed cloaky Bantams its ridiculous).
Which is fine. I have a life outside of EVE, and Cynthia doesn't. I get spend time humping my wife while Cynthia humps pixels. Each to their own, as they say. All i know is, my wife's analogs are bigger than Cynthia's digitals.
My problem is, the plex rats (as Veshta says) are too pansy and flimsy. Cynthia deploys a Daredevil to nuke even medium plex rats within seconds, then installs Alfred olacar in the cloaky Bantam. No further rats spawn, meaning you don't even need a gun. Welcome back to gunless cloaking plexing alts.
Secondly, defplexing getting lower LP is fine. But no war is run solely on the offensive. That's welping. With station lock-outs, you can't welp-attack contantly and let your defplexing slip, because the logistical stupid is just too great. Thus, 5 toon-hours for one guy sucks 5 guy's one toon hour. Plus, with a 25% VP effect from dust, that's really 6 for, 4 against at the moment, which is a huge skew. The LP payouts are also equally skewed.
LP rewards for defplexing need looking at, as does wiping off the Dust planet modifiers prior to us having the ability to write contracts, defend, and organise with Dust monkeys. CCP has put everything in place to screw up the warzone with Dust, except the ability for us to unscrew it. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
480
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 09:30:00 -
[58] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:.... Cynthia deploys a Daredevil to nuke even medium plex rats within seconds, then installs Alfred olacar in the cloaky Bantam. No further rats spawn, meaning you don't even need a gun. Welcome back to gunless cloaking plexing alts... Predicted this behaviour prior to changes going though, glad to see it confirmed. Quite simply the most efficient way to do it with the current rules .. the plexing speed on Gall/Cald front points towards heavy use of same method as does the speed on Min/Amarr so not 'kosher' to name names I think
As for Dust; The whole idea is for CCP to make cash and the tie-in is rather ingenious, having Dust act as a modifier on the goings on in Eve .. both sides have equal opportunity to affect said modifier as it can swing both ways and the modifiers have been in place for a long time (think it was with October patch). Question is if it wouldn't have been more 'fair' to reset all districts to have no ownership (ie. 0% modifier) when the tie-in was activated.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
926
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 15:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: Just out of curiosity though, what in your view, is required of a person for him/her to be considered 'playing the game'? Farm a bazillion VP/LP per week? ***** on umpteen mails per week?
It's good to see your corp is finally in FW and that you're actually getting some kills. +1.
|
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote: Just out of curiosity though, what in your view, is required of a person for him/her to be considered 'playing the game'? Farm a bazillion VP/LP per week? ***** on umpteen mails per week?
It's good to see your corp is finally in FW and that you're actually getting some kills. +1.
XG does, of course, includes the people who are just farming and whoring kms as playing the sov war game. It doesn't matter to him that the vast majority don't care at all who is winning the sov war. He still wants to count them as satisfied customers. Just like people who used to do nothing but ***** missions were satisfied customers.
If he only looked at people who actually log in and do their absolute best to win sov well it would just be him Nezmor Zarnak and Sasawong.
So despite the fact that only 4 players are really trying to win the game that doesn't mean its broken. After all those 4 people are happy with the mechanic. |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
926
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 17:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:dribble..... -1 to you for never logging in and playing Eve Online. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
XG I have played eve and faction war for hundreds of hours. I don't think playing it for hundreds more will fix it.
Given that comment was in response to the quote below, its obvious that you are just trying to avoid the fact that fw sov war is still broken.
ground ctrl wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote: Just out of curiosity though, what in your view, is required of a person for him/her to be considered 'playing the game'? Farm a bazillion VP/LP per week? ***** on umpteen mails per week?
It's good to see your corp is finally in FW and that you're actually getting some kills. +1. XG does, of course, includes the people who are just farming and whoring kms as playing the sov war game. It doesn't matter to him that the vast majority don't care at all who is winning the sov war. He still wants to count them as satisfied customers. Just like people who used to do nothing but ***** missions were satisfied customers. If he only looked at people who actually log in and do their absolute best to win sov well it would just be him Nezmor Zarnak and Sasawong. So despite the fact that only 4 players are really trying to win the game that doesn't mean its broken. After all those 4 people are happy with the mechanic.
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
259
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 18:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
Don't bother chat, this guy doesn't know how to play Eve. So he goes on and on and on about something he knows absolutely nothing about. I found it amusing at first but it's so obviously a troll it's not worth discussing anything with him. He is terrible and knows he should be playing other games, yet it amuses him to come here and insult a game he doesn't "get". Probably due to some sort of inferiority complex. Got ass raped a few too many times on his main I suppose. Should be banned for filling the forums with nonsense tbh.
chatgris wrote:ground ctrl wrote:or using plexes as a way to get some random pvp.
Why is this a bad thing?
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
926
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 19:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:XG I have played eve and faction war for hundreds of hours. I don't think playing it for hundreds more will fix it.
Given that comment was in response to the quote below, its obvious that you are just trying to avoid the fact that fw sov war is still broken. You're the moron who ranted on endlessly that there should be no rats in plexes... Just sayin'
Anyways, have fun orbiting buttons with your FDU alt. I thank you for helping us achieve FW domination. Keep up the good work! |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:XG I have played eve and faction war for hundreds of hours. I don't think playing it for hundreds more will fix it.
Given that comment was in response to the quote below, its obvious that you are just trying to avoid the fact that fw sov war is still broken. You're the moron who ranted on endlessly that there should be no rats in plexes... Just sayin' Anyways, have fun orbiting buttons with your FDU alt. I thank you for helping us achieve FW domination. Keep up the good work!
More sidestepping.
You are horribly misinformed, and unable to respond the facts that fw sov mechanics are still broken. |
Taoist Dragon
Forced Penetration Hopeless Addiction
203
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:
More sidestepping.
You are horribly misinformed, and unable to respond the facts that fw sov mechanics are still broken.
FW mechanics are not still broken.....there are a lot of people very much enjoying FW in it's current state.
That the FW mechanics are not what YOU want is a completely different thing altogether.
Seriously mate if you don't like it so much go fly somewhere else. If you have CONSTRUCTIVE ideas then post them on F&I area of the forums. This constant whining just make you look like a snivelling 12yr old who's had a cookie take from him.
If you have posted your ideas and CCP are choosing not to implement then we then make the choice. Suck it up and try to adapt to find YOUR kind of fun or just leave. Vote with your wallet and cancel your sub. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
926
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 20:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
And you're the only moron on these forums who thinks the previous system of once (or more) per month massive sov flips was a good idea.
|
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Don't bother chat, this guy doesn't know how to play Eve. So he goes on and on and on about something he knows absolutely nothing about. I found it amusing at first but it's so obviously a troll it's not worth discussing anything with him. He is terrible and knows he should be playing other games, yet it amuses him to come here and insult a game he doesn't "get". Probably due to some sort of inferiority complex. Got ass raped a few too many times on his main I suppose. Should be banned for filling the forums with nonsense tbh. chatgris wrote:ground ctrl wrote:or using plexes as a way to get some random pvp.
Why is this a bad thing?
Like I said Princess nexxala in all of my first few posts I am cearain's alt. My main account expired and I am not really interested in resubbing so I am posting on an alt account.
If you want to address the points I raised feel free. If you just want to name call like XG, I guess you can do that to0, but you lose credibiltiy. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:And you're the only moron on these forums who thinks the previous system of once (or more) per month massive sov flips was a good idea.
My what an intetnet tough guy repeatedly calling other posters a moron.
Yes the cashouts were preferable to this system. Can you remember any of the reasons I gave for that? Or are you the type of person who makes up their mind without listening to reasons? |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:ground ctrl wrote:
More sidestepping.
You are horribly misinformed, and unable to respond the facts that fw sov mechanics are still broken.
FW mechanics are not still broken.....there are a lot of people very much enjoying FW in it's current state. .
I would think they would want to hit about 50k people in fw after 2 expansions focused on it. 15,000 players most of which are just players moving from a different part of the game to farm, is not what I would call a success. But I guess I had different expectations. |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
926
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 22:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Yes the cashouts were preferable to this system. Case closed. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 02:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
I ask you this:
ground ctrl wrote:X Gallentius wrote:And you're the only moron on these forums who thinks the previous system of once (or more) per month massive sov flips was a good idea.
My what an intetnet tough guy repeatedly calling other posters a moron. Yes the cashouts were preferable to this system. Can you remember any of the reasons I gave for that? Or are you the type of person who makes up their mind without listening to reasons?
And you respond with this
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:Yes the cashouts were preferable to this system. Case closed.
There are of course allot of close minded and unreasonable people on the internet but few are so blatant as you. I can only guess you, in fact, did not even read the reasons I gave for prefering the cashout system. And you are, in fact, the type of person who makes up your mind without listening to reason. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
927
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 04:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:There are of course allot of close minded and unreasonable people on the internet but few are so blatant as you. I can only guess you, in fact, did not even read the reasons I gave for prefering the cashout system. And you are, in fact, the type of person who makes up your mind without listening to reason. Log in. Play game. Report your findings.
Remember Step 1. Log in. |
Dan Carter Murray
370
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 04:39:00 -
[74] - Quote
I just want to say to the morons who put alts into opposing militia (Amarr putting alts in FDU or TLF) that my dplexing alt who is Amarr has made me 8 bil isk to date since they made LP changes for dplexing. This isk is from dplexing both high and low contested systems.
Oh noes! I can't make 16 bil. 8 bil isk is fine though. probably 2 bil of that was @ tier 1.
quit crying about the mechanics and put your alt back into Amarr so it can be awoxed. I mean...put it back into Amarr to dplex so your main gets awoxed for being a traitor...I mean just quit crying and your main back into Amarr.
Again, the formula for FW is:
enter plex enemy came to fight? no - you made isk yes - you got pvp did you win? no - you got pvp yes - you got isk and pvp
stfu THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. @DanCarterMurray |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
154
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 11:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:There are of course allot of close minded and unreasonable people on the internet but few are so blatant as you. I can only guess you, in fact, did not even read the reasons I gave for prefering the cashout system. And you are, in fact, the type of person who makes up your mind without listening to reason. Log in. Play game. Report your findings. Remember Step 1. Log in.
Wise frog is wise. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
154
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 11:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:ground ctrl wrote:
More sidestepping.
You are horribly misinformed, and unable to respond the facts that fw sov mechanics are still broken.
FW mechanics are not still broken.....there are a lot of people very much enjoying FW in it's current state.
That the FW mechanics are not what YOU want is a completely different thing altogether.
After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced. People need to be changed, their attitude of "i would rather sit in station for 2 hours, pvp for 10 minutes, farm isk for 5 minutes" should become "i pvp for 2 hours, when i lose, i farm isk for 15 minutes". Also if you are not playing FW, you should stop posting. I sometimes go into wormholes, or nullsec, but you dont see me posting on forums as nullsec/wh resident. |
Dan Carter Murray
375
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Also if you are not playing FW, you should stop posting. I sometimes go into wormholes, or nullsec, but you dont see me posting on forums as nullsec/wh resident.
this
THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. @DanCarterMurray |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Also if you are not playing FW, you should stop posting. I sometimes go into wormholes, or nullsec, but you dont see me posting on forums as nullsec/wh resident. this
How long do you have to play a game before you can post on it?
If the idea is that only people who are currently playing a game are allowed to post then of course it will be all roses - after all people who don't like the game tend to stop playing it.
Just like most catholic priests do not think the celebacy requirement is too onerous. Well if they did think it was too onerous they wouldn't be priests now would they?
If you don't want to hear the views of people who no longer play the game because of problems then don't read the forums. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:ground ctrl wrote:There are of course allot of close minded and unreasonable people on the internet but few are so blatant as you. I can only guess you, in fact, did not even read the reasons I gave for prefering the cashout system. And you are, in fact, the type of person who makes up your mind without listening to reason. Log in. Play game. Report your findings. Remember Step 1. Log in.
I did all three. And the game still sucks so I am reporting why. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 15:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:I just want to say to the morons who put alts into opposing militia (Amarr putting alts in FDU or TLF) that my dplexing alt who is Amarr has made me 8 bil isk to date since they made LP changes for dplexing. This isk is from dplexing both high and low contested systems.
Oh noes! I can't make 16 bil. 8 bil isk is fine though. probably 2 bil of that was @ tier 1.
quit crying about the mechanics and put your alt back into Amarr so it can be awoxed. I mean...put it back into Amarr to dplex so your main gets awoxed for being a traitor...I mean just quit crying and your main back into Amarr.
Again, the formula for FW is:
enter plex
enemy came to fight? no - you made isk yes - you got pvp did you win? no - you got pvp yes - you got isk and pvp
stfu
I am glad you enjoy spending hours of your life multiboxing alts deplexing systems for isk. That does not sound fun to me. I would prefer to actually get pvp on my main that have some context in the war at large.
And don't assume that alts in other militias are doing plexing. |
|
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
259
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 16:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
Please post on your main so we can all see just how "active" in FW you were, oh wait like that would ever happen. FYI just because someone disagrees with your very shortsighted opinion doesn't mean you have to post it 37 times in the same thread. You come off like an enormous douche.
ground ctrl wrote:
How long do you have to play a game before you can post on it?
If the idea is that only people who are currently playing a game are allowed to post then of course it will be all roses - after all people who don't like the game tend to stop playing it.
Just like most catholic priests do not think the celebacy requirement is too onerous. Well if they did think it was too onerous they wouldn't be priests now would they?
If you don't want to hear the views of people who no longer play the game because of problems then don't read the forums.
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 16:17:00 -
[82] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Please post on your main so we can all see just how "active" in FW you were, oh wait like that would ever happen. FYI just because someone disagrees with your very shortsighted opinion doesn't mean you have to post it 37 times in the same thread. You come off like an enormous douche. ground ctrl wrote:
How long do you have to play a game before you can post on it?
If the idea is that only people who are currently playing a game are allowed to post then of course it will be all roses - after all people who don't like the game tend to stop playing it.
Just like most catholic priests do not think the celebacy requirement is too onerous. Well if they did think it was too onerous they wouldn't be priests now would they?
If you don't want to hear the views of people who no longer play the game because of problems then don't read the forums.
My mains subscription lapsed because after playing fw I learned it is still broken. Cearain and Cearaen are my pvp characters.
I don't care if people disagree with my opinions. Really if you like camping gates and collecting frigate kills in your sensor boosted arty thrasher thats fine. Its not my thing, but I hope you have fun. If DCM and cynthia enjoy deplexing by multiboxing alt accounts thats fine. I really hope they have fun too. But thats not appealing to me.
But if someone isn't going to respond to the actual points/suggestions I make about the game, other than just assert they are "short sighted" and then say I come off as a douche - well don't expect any respect in return.
|
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
259
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 16:50:00 -
[83] - Quote
IDK maybe just accept it didn't work for you and move on. It's obviously not for everyone.
Oh and BTW, the sensor booster thrasher is called ADAPTING. You see, some squids won't fight me. So I force them to fight. And I do it a way that makes them realize they would be better off just giving me the GF in the first place. At least then they won't lose a pod and die without firing a shot.
But I suppose not everyone is flexible enough to change up tactics on a whim to adapt to a given situation. Personally that's what I love about Eve. So many ways to pew stuff :) You want to play the game only 1 way, that's cool but it doesn't mean it's **** for everyone else.
ground ctrl wrote: My mains subscription lapsed because after playing fw I learned it is still broken. Cearain and Cearaen are my pvp characters.
I don't care if people disagree with my opinions. Really if you like camping gates and collecting frigate kills in your sensor boosted arty thrasher thats fine. Its not my thing, but I hope you have fun. If DCM and cynthia enjoy deplexing by multiboxing alt accounts thats fine. I really hope they have fun too. But thats not appealing to me.
But if someone isn't going to respond to the actual points/suggestions I make about the game, other than just assert they are "short sighted" and then say I come off as a douche - well don't expect any respect in return.
QCATs is recruiting https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 19:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:IDK maybe just accept it didn't work for you and move on. It's obviously not for everyone.
Oh and BTW, the sensor booster thrasher is called ADAPTING. You see, some squids won't fight me. So I force them to fight. And I do it a way that makes them realize they would be better off just giving me the GF in the first place. At least then they won't lose a pod and die without firing a shot.
So you would prefer goodfights but you cant get them so you somewhat reluctantly fit the sensor boosters to ***** killmails. Some people would doubt you, but I don't. When I couldn't find good fights I considered doing this too.
I even bought some ships to do that and got a kill or two. Of course that was always an option that I had as people have been camping stations and gates with sensor boosted ships for years. I am glad you get enjoyment from it but its not cutting it for me.
But lets stick to with what you said you would prefer - Good fights. You said you weren't getting the fights and thats what lead to you flying the sensorboosted arty thrasher. That is my observation as well. Why aren't we getting enough good fights?
Are we the only ones in eve who wish we could get more good pvp fights?
How many people do you think have left eve because good fights were too hard to come by?
Is there not a thread on warfare and tactics describing how boring eve pvp is because good fights are hard to come by? Have you not seen countless other threads witht he same complaint?
I mean you try to act like I am all alone in wanting mechanics that promote frequent quality pvp but if you honestly answer the questions above I am sure you will realize that eve and ccp would greatly benefit from making FW a mechanic where you can get frequent quality pvp.
Just because the people who find eve boring because of the long waits between fights don't say subscribed forever that doesn't mean eve wouldn't be way better if they made a part of eve where people could get frequent quality pvp.
If they did that with faction war I don't think we would see fw gain 5000 null sec alt farmers. We would see faction war and indeed eve as a whole gain 50-100k new subscriptions - on the conservative end.
But whatever, jsut stop acting like I am the only one who would like to see eve provide a mechanic for frequent quality pvp.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
934
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 19:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
If Eve is boring to you then leave. Please. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 20:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:If Eve is boring to you then leave. Please.
"Adapt or die"
XG helping eve-o forums live up to their reputation of being full of worthless posts. What would happen to them without you?
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
934
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 20:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:"Adapt or die" You don't adapt. You just whine. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
882
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 00:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sorry to hear Cearain got bugged and is nonfunctional. Mostly because you are still here on ground ctrl doing the same job. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
245
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 08:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Hidden Snake wrote:to get rid of farmers ... get rid of the tier system ....and cut the lp store profit .... farmers will vanish ....
reverse timers etc are useless there are tons of farmable systems ..... and second level of farming is running missions on high tiers. You didn't read the OP very well. This is not to remove farming, farmers are a part of EVE. This is merely to at least give people that avoid fights a disincentive to do so, and to give people who try and get fights an incentive to do so. I don't care if the people that warp out are farmers or not, merely that not staying and fighting should have some kind of penalty. This penalty will have a side-effect of reducing farming, but I don't think (and don't want) to stop it.
u haven't read my post ... this will not even reduce farming by a bit .... if you chase away farmer from plex he usually does not return. He just goes to other distant system.
Point is farmers affect the game of system control (which was not in the past) and they also affect the market games a lot. Both are by my humble opinion **** sir and it is ruining game for everyone. Because despite all the gallente and minnie smack on forums if CCP allows and the farmhorde will rollover to the other side no fastforward patches will save you (actually one could, but it would mean I won and CCP Fozzie ****** it up).
http://facwarstats.appspot.com/ <<< here u can see where the farmhorde is now ... Amarr hold your hats. Based on CCPs conflict of interests I propose all who protest agains CCP Fozzie behaviour ad this to your sig.-á HIGH FIVE is LOW FIVE CCP.-á |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
484
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 09:10:00 -
[90] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:u haven't read my post ... this will not even reduce farming by a bit .... if you chase away farmer from plex he usually does not return. He just goes to other distant system.... It will reduce it, simply because the profits from it will plummet.
Farming works because defender (PvP'er) does not want to waste time babysitting timers, especially with extra time on them so the farmer can have several 'active' plexes to work with and just warp around with the only time lost being the time it takes to warp+accel. gate.
Resetting timers would make offensive plexing something to do in blobs so make sure you don't suddenly 'lose' 15 minutes and is to me an exceedingly poor idea. Auto-run timers on the other hand lets the PvP'er penalise the farmer for running without having to stop, if he runs the time it takes him to get back is effectively lost to him.
End result will be a shift towards missions again, but they 'only' affect the markets (which have been crashed for 1+ year so 'meh') and not the all important docking and/or WZC .. while not all that needs to be done to bring balance to the risk/reward of FW it would be a solid step in the right direction.
PS: And yes, farmer can just pull stakes and go far, far away .. but as control stabilizes, people spread out and that ninja wannabe gets a brand new group of followers --> missions. |
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Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
245
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 09:28:00 -
[91] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Hidden Snake wrote:u haven't read my post ... this will not even reduce farming by a bit .... if you chase away farmer from plex he usually does not return. He just goes to other distant system.... It will reduce it, simply because the profits from it will plummet. Farming works because defender (PvP'er) does not want to waste time babysitting timers, especially with extra time on them so the farmer can have several 'active' plexes to work with and just warp around with the only time lost being the time it takes to warp+accel. gate. Resetting timers would make offensive plexing something to do in blobs so make sure you don't suddenly 'lose' 15 minutes and is to me an exceedingly poor idea. Auto-run timers on the other hand lets the PvP'er penalise the farmer for running without having to stop, if he runs the time it takes him to get back is effectively lost to him. End result will be a shift towards missions again, but they 'only' affect the markets (which have been crashed for 1+ year so 'meh') and not the all important docking and/or WZC .. while not all that needs to be done to bring balance to the risk/reward of FW it would be a solid step in the right direction. PS: And yes, farmer can just pull stakes and go far, far away .. but as control stabilizes, people spread out and that ninja wannabe gets a brand new group of followers --> missions.
backwater systems .... no change to farming .... Based on CCPs conflict of interests I propose all who protest agains CCP Fozzie behaviour ad this to your sig.-á HIGH FIVE is LOW FIVE CCP.-á |
dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
541
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 10:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
If you have chased of the attacker, why don't you not just run down the timer?
Merdaneth wrote:1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall.
This means that a medium/large gang can defend every plex is a large number of systems, by forcing the attackers to warp out resetting the timer and moving on.
GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Hidden Snake
Genco Fatal Ascension
245
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 11:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
dexington wrote:If you have chased of the attacker, why don't you not just run down the timer? Merdaneth wrote:1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall. This means that a medium/large gang can defend every plex is a large number of systems, by forcing the attackers to warp out resetting the timer and moving on.
well nanoatron is faster then most of the crap flying around now ... or nanoslasher ... so he will just burn out and back .... and also cloaky farmers will cause more problems. CCP is not solving rootcause just patching the hole and making new holes. Based on CCPs conflict of interests I propose all who protest agains CCP Fozzie behaviour ad this to your sig.-á HIGH FIVE is LOW FIVE CCP.-á |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
If ccp did 2 things plexing would be an awesome pvp game and there would be no more farming:
1) If you warp off when an enemy (or neutal?) is on your grid or on grid with your accell gate then the timer goes 3 minutes in your enemies favor. Not just to zero. So If you are plexing a minor for 1 minute and get chased off your enemy now only has 8 minutes to close the plex. If you leave a plex with no enemies around then the timer stays where it is at. (we don't want to punish people for leaving a plex to fight in another nearby plex) Perhaps we could even say if your ship blows up in the plex and you warp out in your pod you still don't lose the 3 minutes. Again encouraging people to stay and fight.
2) Notify us when plexes are entered and left. Just when where and plextype so we can go fight them. They are supposedly our military complexes ffs. How can the militias not know when they are attacked?
Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
160
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:If ccp did 2 things plexing would be an awesome pvp game and there would be no more farming:
1) If you warp off when an enemy (or neutal?) is on your grid or on grid with your accell gate then the timer goes 3 minutes in your enemies favor. Not just to zero. So If you are plexing a minor for 1 minute and get chased off your enemy now only has 8 minutes to close the plex. If you leave a plex with no enemies around then the timer stays where it is at. (we don't want to punish people for leaving a plex to fight in another nearby plex) Perhaps we could even say if your ship blows up in the plex and you warp out in your pod you still don't lose the 3 minutes. Again encouraging people to stay and fight.
2) Notify us when plexes are entered and left. Just when where and plextype so we can go fight them. They are supposedly our military complexes ffs. How can the militias not know when they are attacked?
Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob.
1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:48:00 -
[96] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote: 1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information.
1) Good point. The three minutes couldn't be repeating. it could alternate though. Perhaps one time its three minutes then it just rolls back to zero if you warp off when an enemy is on grid.
2) Not so. There are not that many plexes open. But if that became the problem then we could ask for a filter such that we see only plex activity within x jumps. |
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
162
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 14:58:00 -
[97] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: 1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information.
1) Good point. The three minutes couldn't be repeating. it could alternate though. Perhaps one time its three minutes then it just rolls back to zero if you warp off when an enemy is on grid. 2) Not so. There are not that many plexes open. But if that became the problem then we could ask for a filter such that we see only plex activity within x jumps.
What you fail to see is that farming is not encouraged by game mechanics. It is encourage by you, and people like you who would rather spend their "precious" time on posting, than fighting for their chosen militia. And people like meditril, or whatever, the lead shitposter of triad. His time is so valuable, farming isk AND having pvp fights is out of question. Farming for 15 minutes, fighting for 45, logging off is out of question. Chatting on TS for 2 hours while blobbing around, scaring away 99% of targets is perfectly acceptable.
In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people? |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:11:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:ground ctrl wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote: 1) I will close large plexes in a minute.
2) We will make you receive so many notifications, you will get 0 information.
1) Good point. The three minutes couldn't be repeating. it could alternate though. Perhaps one time its three minutes then it just rolls back to zero if you warp off when an enemy is on grid. 2) Not so. There are not that many plexes open. But if that became the problem then we could ask for a filter such that we see only plex activity within x jumps. What you fail to see is that farming is not encouraged by game mechanics. It is encourage by you, and people like you who would rather spend their "precious" time on posting, than fighting for their chosen militia. And people like meditril, or whatever, the lead shitposter of triad. His time is so valuable, farming isk AND having pvp fights is out of question. Farming for 15 minutes, fighting for 45, logging off is out of question. Chatting on TS for 2 hours while blobbing around, scaring away 99% of targets is perfectly acceptable. In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people?
Actually what you and sasawong do is encouraged by the mechanics. Multibox alts everywhere and if you get chased out then just hide in another system and keep running plexes. You are doing it right under the current mechanics but that does not sound fun to many. That is why - as you correctly point out - not many people care to do this activity.
You can keep telling everyone do this activity but if they don't think its fun they wont. People would rather pvp or even just talk to friends on comms.
But anyway. Thanks for your first post where you actually address issues with what I propose. I think the issues you raise were adequately addressed. What do you think? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
485
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:13:00 -
[99] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:...Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob. Cearain tried convincing me with the exact same thing and it is still erroneous to say the least. Chasing rabbits is all well and good, but without a shotgun and/or snares the chase is all you will ever get until you collapse from exhaustion and starvation.
A notification system does not solve the problem, all it does is give the hunter a mountainbike so he doesn't deflate as quickly and saves him some time .. the farming issue itself will remain. It is needed for those reason, but don't think it will be the magic bullet.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:...In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people? And when 125 of the 150 people are in actuality farming the snot out of it you are left with a couple of dusin people to Benny Hill them around .. besides, it is easier to sort mechanics than people .. we've been trying the latter for millennia and we are all still twats when all is said and done.
Chasing farmers is loosing proposition as long as they are not penalized for running .. Auto-run timers and appropriate NPC's .. push the bastards into the missions where they can not rock the boat. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
943
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:16:00 -
[100] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: Chasing farmers is loosing proposition as long as they are not penalized for running .. Auto-run timers and appropriate NPC's .. .
Yup.
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kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
190
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
@Veshta ground control is cearain.
@ Cynthia, I play for my amusement. Same goes for most TRIAD players. That's why we don't have 400 or more kills a month, and why we fly together with friends and derp about. instead of being online the entire day and using multiple alts to plex. Come after Eszur and we won't play nice. We are willing to help the rest of the militia as long as we enjoy it. I know you hate us and all but I can't bring myself to care. Keep in mind that you are abnormal and I don't think you can be fixed.
Ps> I now I am too soft and nice for eve. whatever.
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marketjacker
Mafia Redux
46
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:dexington wrote:If you have chased of the attacker, why don't you not just run down the timer? Merdaneth wrote:1. The timer is immediately reset to its neutral state if an opposing side is alone in the plex If you are attacking, and you invested 13 minutes into a 15 minute timer, and you are run off, then you the timer resets and when you return, you'll again need 15 minutes to capture the plex. This way someone chasing off a farmer has actually gained 13 minutes time for his faction, for a 1 minute investment (the warp to the plex). He can chose to stay and invest 15 minutes of his time to run the timer all the way down and take the plex for his side, or he can move on chasing others out of plexes: you've thrown the attacker off the wall. This means that a medium/large gang can defend every plex is a large number of systems, by forcing the attackers to warp out resetting the timer and moving on. well nanoatron is faster then most of the crap flying around now ... or nanoslasher ... so he will just burn out and back .... and also cloaky farmers will cause more problems. CCP is not solving rootcause just patching the hole and making new holes. And conservating the actual state of the battlefield, because offensive plexing will become much more tougher in populated systems (there will be no tactics of ships sitting in more plexes and comming for fight etc. - just blob or nothing).
It's ironic that you think CCP forces you to do the blob or nothing tactic, it's the loss averse nerds like yourself that encourage that more than anything.
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marketjacker
Mafia Redux
46
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:34:00 -
[103] - Quote
Look another thread full of brilliant ideas and great topics. Oh wait it's another **** flinging thread about a game mechanic that ends up boiling down to a handful of people that will NEVER stop playing the game the same way no mattter how much it really changes. Shut down FW for good, the war was over once anyone interesting left years ago. |
Dan Carter Murray
375
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 00:01:00 -
[104] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:Dan Carter Murray wrote:I just want to say to the morons who put alts into opposing militia (Amarr putting alts in FDU or TLF) that my dplexing alt who is Amarr has made me 8 bil isk to date since they made LP changes for dplexing. This isk is from dplexing both high and low contested systems.
Oh noes! I can't make 16 bil. 8 bil isk is fine though. probably 2 bil of that was @ tier 1.
quit crying about the mechanics and put your alt back into Amarr so it can be awoxed. I mean...put it back into Amarr to dplex so your main gets awoxed for being a traitor...I mean just quit crying and your main back into Amarr.
Again, the formula for FW is:
enter plex
enemy came to fight? no - you made isk yes - you got pvp did you win? no - you got pvp yes - you got isk and pvp
stfu I am glad you enjoy spending hours of your life multiboxing alts deplexing systems for isk. That does not sound fun to me. I would prefer to actually get pvp on my main that have some context in the war at large. And don't assume that alts in other militias are doing plexing.
I am pvping on my main. and i wouldn't call it multiboxing. once i hear the shield alarm i alt tab and move alt to new plex to dplex.
but no i don't pvp on my main THIS IS GOLD FLEET BROTHER. WE DON'T NEED NO ******* THRASHERS/SFIs/CANES. @DanCarterMurray |
Kazim Scumling
Judge Enterprises
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:23:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced.
IMO Balance should not be the only concern on a game design. All the games I played which had some kind of faction PvP, had some systems which are against the snowball effect for the winning side. I never seen that "Faction Pride" was enough for a loosing faction to get back from ruins to recover without any kind of game mechanic encouraging them. Without such mechanics war generally sticks into a state that people choose/switch sides depending on if they want to be underdog or winner. After all it's fairly easy to switch sides or even better get the best of both sides like many do right now.
I can say that FW we have now, is more attractive, lucrative and full of action compared to what it was. And I definitely can say it's an improvement, as it encourages people to leave high-sec, to get involved in a bit more "sandbox" side of EVE. In that sense I'm glad.
However it's far from being complete. And the attitude CSM and CCP claiming it's close to be complete, is a mistake. It would be pretty surprising if we see Amarr or Caldari pushing back to get the upperhand on following years (not months but years) with the current rule-set. I hope I'm wrong on that matter as otherwise faction sovereignty would be a very dull part of this game.
Anyways my corp leaving FW next downtime and moving to 0.0 and I want to say "Amarr Victor!" for one last time :) Thanks to both friends and enemies as last 2 months were full of fun and PvP.
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Wiedzmin 3
Affinity Fan Club
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 11:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Kazim Scumling wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced. IMO Balance should not be the only concern on a game design. All the games I played which had some kind of faction PvP, had some systems which are against the snowball effect for the winning side . I never seen that "Faction Pride" was enough for a loosing faction to get back from ruins to recover without any kind of game mechanic encouraging them.
Why not? It is enough for nullbears. And what else is in this game? Farming ISK? Farming killmails? With enough experience the latter is actually less fun. |
ground ctrl
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 18:49:00 -
[107] - Quote
Wiedzmin 3 wrote:Kazim Scumling wrote:Cynthia Nezmor wrote:After all 4 militias could do the same thing, it was perfectly balanced. IMO Balance should not be the only concern on a game design. All the games I played which had some kind of faction PvP, had some systems which are against the snowball effect for the winning side . I never seen that "Faction Pride" was enough for a loosing faction to get back from ruins to recover without any kind of game mechanic encouraging them. Why not? It is enough for nullbears. And what else is in this game? Farming ISK? Farming killmails? With enough experience the latter is actually less fun.
Faction pride does not really keep any null bears frighting for the losing side. In fact nothing keeps people fighting for the losing side. That is why losing sides stop existing and are replaced with new alliances. Unless ccp plans on making new races every time one loses I don't think that will work well in fw.
Plus I don't think Null sec is a very good model. Ever since BOB was taken out and the mittani has been head of goons Null sec couldn't be more dull. Since BOB left the basic premise of null sec is "lets be friends and carebear together." |
Kazim Scumling
Judge Enterprises
14
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 20:52:00 -
[108] - Quote
Btw it seems Amarr is T3 and Minmatar is T2 now. I think they waited for me to leave the FW ;p If things turn out like this my proposition of "Faction Pride is not enough" will go to the sewers :D Amarr Victor!!!! |
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