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Alita Tiphares
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Posted - 2005.06.27 02:24:00 -
[121]
you people still dont seem to understand that when it comes to number of subscribers,
carebears > pvpers
thats why only about 5% of the population inhabits 0.0 space and the rest is mining/hauling/npcing in empire space. Doing something like this would drive ccp to bancrupcy
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.06.27 02:30:00 -
[122]
 Originally by: Alita Tiphares
you people still dont seem to understand that when it comes to number of subscribers,
carebears > pvpers
thats why only about 5% of the population inhabits 0.0 space and the rest is mining/hauling/npcing in empire space. Doing something like this would drive ccp to bancrupcy
that is so true
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QuinHaden
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Posted - 2005.06.27 05:16:00 -
[123]
Originally by: dalman
As far as I know, ONE preson has quit EVE because he 'lost the game' (Ragnar, TTI CEO). I think the way you win a war now makes many more quit. (Have you ever noticed an entity be declared 'dead' once a month )
As if it makes any differenceà Ragnar quit EVE because it was no longer a challenge and he was starting a new company. (yeah a ôreal lifeö oneà) He had amassed a personal fortune of over 7 BILLION (in ISK and BPÆs) back when the most leet of corps had a mere 3 or 4 Billion to their nameà Not only did he quit, but he ôgave everything awayö to those close to him. He didnÆt ebay it, he didnÆt put it under lock and key. He gave it awayà I personally received 750 million of it. Unfortunately I quit EVE Online about 2 months later out of sheer boredom. And the ISK he gave me went to my corp. mates.
I play now, after about 8 months off, but only casually. However he does not. Instead he is the CEO of his own game development studio, named John Galt Games. Google it if you want too.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.06.27 05:42:00 -
[124]
<snide>
Does it make games with Magical Hats in them? 
</snide>
And the rest of you know you want to agree with me. Go head, its ok to agree with a pirate. All the cool kids do :\
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Fellhand
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Posted - 2005.06.27 06:22:00 -
[125]
Really awful idea.
Losing a BS already costs me about 80 mil and I don't even use especially decent fitouts. Losing should be painful, not crippling.
Dreads will almost certainly use T2 insurance if they use insurance at all and from everything that's been said, T2 insurance is pretty useless.
And what the hell is it with a certain faction of players who are devoted to wanting to remove insurance just so they can bully smaller corps? Guys, there is more to the game than constant wars.
_______________________________________________
There is no such thing as too much cynicism
Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats...
Beware of geeks bearing gifs
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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.06.27 06:49:00 -
[126]
Perhaps a better method would be to limit insurance to players that aren't members of a corporation. If you are in a corp, you can quite easily replace most anything that you own. Insurance for billionares shoulnd't be an option.
And that wold be a huge isk sink for the super-wealthy - if they want to play, they have nothing to bail them out if they loose that dread - they just eat the money and life goes on.
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Shittake
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Posted - 2005.06.27 08:16:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Plekto
Perhaps a better method would be to limit insurance to players that aren't members of a corporation. If you are in a corp, you can quite easily replace most anything that you own. Insurance for billionares shoulnd't be an option.
And that wold be a huge isk sink for the super-wealthy - if they want to play, they have nothing to bail them out if they loose that dread - they just eat the money and life goes on.
Why shouldn't billionaires have the option of insurance? What did we do wrong?
I believe that all insurnace should be either (1) limited to 1.0 down through 0.1 space, not 0.0 (2) not applicable to those who START a war and are destroted by the corp/alliance they declared war upon (or some combination of both).
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Kaalise
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Posted - 2005.06.27 09:36:00 -
[128]
Originally by: OffBeaT
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/06/2005 01:58:22
thats too bad. what i say is more real then what you guys are saying..
oh, who the **** cares about my perfict gramer.
what are you some kind of ****head gramer nerd!
huh?
oh, i got too add this if you got somthing too say too me use your real character not your alt or a alt account.. ok, you look like a real weak person too me when you act like this. says somthing about what you are in real life too me. as for my gens or whatever your going on about. if all 6foot 4" 200 pounds fit mtfer that i am ever walked upto you. you would be ****ing and ****ing yourself hoping the cops can get too you in time, long before i even laided a hand on you.. clear enough for you nerd! i hope my grmmer didn't stop you from understanding that.. i like my  they are kind of fun.
Weak person? You mean compared to someone who makes threats of physical violence to someone across the internet? Pathetic.
Oh and please call me an alt, that way I can laugh at you 
.+
(_) Fetch the holy hand grenade |
Avant Royce
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Posted - 2005.06.27 10:22:00 -
[129]
Originally by: ****take
Originally by: Plekto
Perhaps a better method would be to limit insurance to players that aren't members of a corporation. If you are in a corp, you can quite easily replace most anything that you own. Insurance for billionares shoulnd't be an option.
And that wold be a huge isk sink for the super-wealthy - if they want to play, they have nothing to bail them out if they loose that dread - they just eat the money and life goes on.
Why shouldn't billionaires have the option of insurance? What did we do wrong?
I believe that all insurnace should be either (1) limited to 1.0 down through 0.1 space, not 0.0 (2) not applicable to those who START a war and are destroted by the corp/alliance they declared war upon (or some combination of both).
I just had an idea relating to (1): multiply the insurance payout by the system security level you lose your ship in (or some similar function).
This way you keep the carebears happy and diversify 0.0 fleets, while making the insurance system more realistic(lower sec systems are more risky to be in so you should get less insurance payout).
PVP doesnt have to be only for the rich because a lot less ppl will be flying battleships. There will be more cruisers and frigs fighting eachother and battleships will be rarer in pvp combat.
signed
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:47:00 -
[130]
I support nerfing the insurance system, atleast partially. Actually, anything that promotes risk is good for the game as it enhances players' effect on the universe.
One thing I'd like to address is some people referring to their gaming as work. First off, I will separate inner motivation and instrumental motivation (the terms are self-explanatory). Now I urge all of you who play the game for ISK grind to reconsider your priorities. Most importanly a game should be enjoyable most of the playing time, regardless of what you do.
Personally I'm fascinated by risk. I'm not intimidated by losses, because my ISK serves only one purpose: game experience (enjoyment). If I lose something, it's either bad luck or direct or undirect result of my own actions (excluding petitionable technical anomalities).
Try and focus on having fun. Don't create unneccessary pre-requisite demands, they will only make you care about things that don't matter.
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dalman
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Posted - 2005.06.27 14:37:00 -
[131]
It seems like ppl don't understand why insurance discourage the usage of named items.
This for example:
Originally by: OffBeaT
hehe.. i dont know DC, remeber that scorp you and 8 other mOo took out on me. well.. that + my implants = 500mil that day. all i got back was a sinking 110mil.
i would say my loss was pritty dam big for a one day loss..
you don't lose much in combat.
anyway.. BS arnt that big of a deal anymore, not like the past. with t2bs soon comming and dreads and all.
If you have a ship with modules worth 500M, and loose it now, you loose 500M. Without insurance you'd loose 600M.
What kill/death ratio do you have with such a ship? 20:1??? Let's assume that.
And each of these 20 victims loose 50M with insurance. Without insurance they'd loose 150M each.
Let's look at your 'economic killratio'.
20*50:1*500 = 1000M:500M = 2:1
20*150:1*600 = 3000M:600M = 5:1
See the difference?
The added performance of leet modules is worth alot more without insurance.
And everyone that played when insurance lasted 1 week know that none fitted a BS with stock items.
As you as a player with such a expensive ship sure would score higher than a 2:1 killratio with stock modules on, it's absolutely a bad idea looking at your vs your enemies' economy. Hence the only reason for fitting such an expensive combo is to show off.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.06.27 14:56:00 -
[132]
No insurance would be fantastic.
Unfortunatly, it will not, and cannot happen now. With basically every person flying BS, and more importantly, very USED to flying BS, no one would want to suddenly not fly BS.
If there had been no insurance ever, then people would still be mainly flying cruisers and would not be complaining about not getting to fly battleships, because they had never been in them in the first place. Which of course, would be awesome. But now people take for granted that they should all be able to always fly battleships, and only battleships.
And i love the "omg well if you did this griefers would just kill everyone this is just a griefer idea blah blah blah." Mmkay, who do you think is richer, a lvl 4 agent ***** or a "griefer?" Who could afford to lose a BS more? If anything, nerfing insurance would allow agent *****s to continue their agenting in bliss since they never lose ships so its no issue. And PVPers and "griefers" would eventually start to run out of money and would shift over to cruisers and frigs. WHICH WOULD RULE.
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Dreamdancer
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:24:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Dreamdancer on 27/06/2005 16:28:12
Edited by: Dreamdancer on 27/06/2005 16:27:21
Ok, I've been playing the game for about 3 months now. Still no BS's in my stable. Toughest ship I have is a Cyclone. My toon is a carebear type. Minmatar scientist. Oxymoron? Anyway, I play as often as I can and finally have broken 130 mil isk. Just enough to buy a bs and poorly outfit it with no insurance. Now I'll wait a bit longer to get my bs and work up the money for the insurance. Why? Because it has taken this long just to get close to having a bs I don't want to lose it 30 minutes after getting it and have another 3 months to get another.
I do have a thought for you though. How about getting less of a payout the lower the sec of the system you lost the ship in? If I get my nice new rusted Tempest and immediately fly it to 0.0 and it gets blasted out from under me I deserve what I get. Or maybe pay full amount, but raise my insurance premium based on how often I lose ships and where they got splatted? That would match real life.
Geico Agent: You lost another Tempest?
Dreamdancer: Well...you see the rust got so bad that it formed a hole in the bridge and my pod got sucked out and the ship imploded.
Geice Agent: You mean you weren't attacked?
Dreamdancer: Attacked? Why would anyone pirate a Minmatar? All we have is used loin clothes and broken slave control modules.
Geico Agent: Well you know this is going to effect your rates?
Dreamdancer: *sigh* How much now?
editted because c.o.c.k.pit is an obsene word. I'm a bad boy. Gotta go home and wash my mouth out.
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:09:00 -
[134]
good post Dalman, about time this was discussed
my idea would be this
Frigate Insurance - Keep it the same
Crusier Insurnace - Lower payout by 20%, and cost to insure
Battleship Insurance - Lower payout by 60% and cost to insure
or something along those lines
Insurance is supposed to help new players, its not supposed to make war virtualy free
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:43:00 -
[135]
Yea i have to admit one of the top reasons ganking is so common and why 0.0 is hard to enter for minnig corps etc is because there is little if any cost to ganking if a ganker got killed sure he lost his ship modules and clone but all these are easily replacable the insurance pays for the ship modules could be largly tech one rat loot and the clone is easy to replace any other losses are easy to regain via level 4 missions mining etc.
If insurance payed less like say 50% value on ships then it would add cost to ganking
it wont stop it but would reduce it therefore allowing other playing styles to enter 0.0
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!! |
Deadzone
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:47:00 -
[136]
My 2isk about Dreads and Insurance. They shouldn't have any Insurance. Period.
As someone here said only advanced, experienced players will be piloting these things. If you haven't learned by now what is safe and what isn't well, TS. You want to take it into a fleet battle. Sure, go for it but it won't be insured.
They will be ships for the elite and those corps that can afford them.
As for the insurance, I also believe it needs a nerf. As it stands, it is FREE money for losing a ship. That is not the way this game was designed. You should be held responsible for your actions. If you lose something then there needs to be a penalty for it.
For all the modual arguments out there. Well, you put it on that ship knowing all too well it could get destroyed. So don't go whining about it now. You made the choice and you have to own up to the responsibility.
Insurance needs changed.
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:53:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Deadzone
My 2isk about Dreads and Insurance. They shouldn't have any Insurance. Period.
As someone here said only advanced, experienced players will be piloting these things. If you haven't learned by now what is safe and what isn't well, TS. You want to take it into a fleet battle. Sure, go for it but it won't be insured.
They will be ships for the elite and those corps that can afford them.
As for the insurance, I also believe it needs a nerf. As it stands, it is FREE money for losing a ship. That is not the way this game was designed. You should be held responsible for your actions. If you lose something then there needs to be a penalty for it.
For all the modual arguments out there. Well, you put it on that ship knowing all too well it could get destroyed. So don't go whining about it now. You made the choice and you have to own up to the responsibility.
Insurance needs changed.
Bravo
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!! |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:56:00 -
[138]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
With basically every person flying BS, and more importantly, very USED to flying BS, no one would want to suddenly not fly BS.
People are used to fly BS because thats all they have to fly, they are uber compared to cruisers.
Cruisers need more boosts so people might actually want to use them...
There are so many ways of making isk these days, people will adapt.
________________________________________________________
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:59:00 -
[139]
please let the thread die, its obviously not going to happen, so stop posting about it.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.06.27 19:18:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Khargos
please let the thread die, its obviously not going to happen, so stop posting about it.
Thats what they said about stations in space!
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.27 19:19:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Kaalise
Originally by: OffBeaT
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/06/2005 01:58:22
thats too bad. what i say is more real then what you guys are saying..
oh, who the **** cares about my perfict gramer.
what are you some kind of ****head gramer nerd!
huh?
oh, i got too add this if you got somthing too say too me use your real character not your alt or a alt account.. ok, you look like a real weak person too me when you act like this. says somthing about what you are in real life too me. as for my gens or whatever your going on about. if all 6foot 4" 200 pounds fit mtfer that i am ever walked upto you. you would be ****ing and ****ing yourself hoping the cops can get too you in time, long before i even laided a hand on you.. clear enough for you nerd! i hope my grmmer didn't stop you from understanding that.. i like my they are kind of fun.
Weak person? You mean compared to someone who makes threats of physical violence to someone across the internet? Pathetic.
Oh and please call me an alt, that way I can laugh at you
let the big boy stand up for himself ok..
he is a big boy right.
i didnt treaten him.. he insulted my genetics. Over grammer of all things.
Is it ok if i laf at this idot nerd! only a true nerd would say what he said.
i just was letting the nerd know my genetics is just fine in life.
oh yea, if he was in my face saying that, yea.. i would kick his ****en head right in.. but since he is a nerd behind a keyboard he dont got to worrie.
if your gona talk too somone like a ******* you should be man enough too stand upto what your saying..
in my naborhood this is how life is.
he is a alt.. i went looking for him in game..
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Heinky
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Posted - 2005.06.27 19:34:00 -
[142]
No insurance would fix alot for the game, its already beeing destroyed money wise, its to eazy to make money in empire, ccp has made the lvl 4 mission be the "quik way to be a billioner". I dont get it why crokite and bistot is in 0.0 while the lvl 4 are in empire its basicly the same amount of money flow from those two.
We need some balance in the game, when u blow up bs.s now the only trouble u made for the players is they have to go get another one.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.27 19:58:00 -
[143]
Originally by: dalman
It seems like ppl don't understand why insurance discourage the usage of named items.
This for example:
Originally by: OffBeaT
hehe.. i dont know DC, remeber that scorp you and 8 other mOo took out on me. well.. that + my implants = 500mil that day. all i got back was a sinking 110mil.
i would say my loss was pritty dam big for a one day loss..
you don't lose much in combat.
anyway.. BS arnt that big of a deal anymore, not like the past. with t2bs soon comming and dreads and all.
If you have a ship with modules worth 500M, and loose it now, you loose 500M. Without insurance you'd loose 600M.
What kill/death ratio do you have with such a ship? 20:1??? Let's assume that.
And each of these 20 victims loose 50M with insurance. Without insurance they'd loose 150M each.
Let's look at your 'economic killratio'.
20*50:1*500 = 1000M:500M = 2:1
20*150:1*600 = 3000M:600M = 5:1
See the difference?
The added performance of leet modules is worth alot more without insurance.
And everyone that played when insurance lasted 1 week know that none fitted a BS with stock items.
As you as a player with such a expensive ship sure would score higher than a 2:1 killratio with stock modules on, it's absolutely a bad idea looking at your vs your enemies' economy. Hence the only reason for fitting such an expensive combo is to show off.
the point is this ok..
i was here in the days of no insurance and when it was just interposed in the game. i still remeber the noobs freaking out in game over there ship losses. god knows how many i lost too concord f-up's, pirates gang banging at gates or whatever.i dont remeber there being many alliances in thouse days so ill leave them out of it. you had a hard chose in thouse days too eather mine your hole freaking free time away too keep yourself in ships or you can say f-it and buy your isk off eBay. i knew alot of noobs who did that. this is what will happen again if insurance is taken back off. the price of isk on ebay will clime becouse it will be more in demand. so in turn ccp will lose more accounts do too players being more temped too sell it. right now it ant worth buying isk you can make it easy enough with insurance you as a weaker player can get buy.
the loss i took for my ship when i got jumped buy m0o didnt have alot of top mods on it. only 2 that i can remeber an they where on too aid me in combating frig attacks/cruisers. i was hunting frigs and cruisers that day who where hunting me. i just happend too have the bad luck of running into moo that day. i was not at war with them. 8 ships took 10 seconds to gank me i got my sheilds up and 4 torps off. the 8 ships targeting me laged my pod out so it didnt kick into worp like it should of. i had auto set for it.
i just said too DC what i loss that day vs his coment that loss for players isnt that bad these days.
somthing easily said for groupies who never leave the safty of the pack.
insurance should stay as it is or at lest untill other problems are worked out first.
the only players in the game that should not get insurance in the game are the criminals. if we wona get real about it what insurance compony would give insurance too known criminals. anyone with a - past -2.0 shouldnt get insurance.
this is gona make me popular. 
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:03:00 -
[144]
dont remove insurance as a whole, rather make insurance invalid when getting killed by another player. when you die by the hands of a npc the insurance should be valid..
ha, perfect ;)
:P
"We brake for nobody"
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BigBobbom
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:24:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Cosmic Dragon
Tech 1 ships keep insurance the same as its npc made
Tech 2 no insurance at all as its player made
imo, Tech 2 ships are just extra stuff stuck on to a tech 1 hull, therefore why don't we treat the insurence on the tech 2 just like the hull it was built on.
ie. Insurence pays the same amount for the thorax as a demieos.
it would also keep tech 2 ships as more of a rarity.
thats just my 2 cents worth. |
Alocin
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Posted - 2005.06.27 21:40:00 -
[146]
Keep the insurance, though it could use a little tweaking, given the new ships coming in.
As for everyone soiling themselves over the dreadnoughts...THEY CAN'T DOCK (at least, that's what I'm hearing).
So, if they can't dock...
NO INSURANCE.
Carebears and anti-insurance both get what they want. Everybody wins. Also, I want to know where the hell everyone is pulling this "Insurance = new ship" bull. I've been flying a destroyer for over a week now, and have blown it up three times. Each time, I had the best insurance.
Price on my Thrasher: 1.3 mil
Premium Insurance Payout: 750K.
Which means I still have to work for the difference. Just for the ship! I still have to outfit it with guns which means I'm farther behind. I do agree not every player should get all the uber goodies, but nor should this game be that slanted where I'm potentially screwed if I fail. CCP has the right idea with the insurance plan as is now: Penalize me for goofing up, but don't shaft somebody because they blinked. All that really needs to be tweaked is the pricing as well as the insurance for T2 ships.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.06.27 21:46:00 -
[147]
Agreed, insurance should be removed.
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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.06.28 02:45:00 -
[148]
Insurance is needed, but it should be based upon your standing. That is, players with negative ratings should not be able to obtain it(though any current policy will still remain until it lappses, then it can't be renewed).
That seems fair. Pirates live and die and there is no backup. Seriously - would you expect then to even SELL ships to a pirate, let alone insure them? That another idea - pirates should be banned from buying ships outside of escrow or making them themselves, at least in .5 and higher systems. As it is, the "police" do notihng to make life hard on them, and limiting their supply of insurance and easy replacement ships would go a long way towards curbing their wanton behavior.
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2005.06.28 02:59:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Blind Man on 28/06/2005 03:01:24
I think that if insurance gets removed there will be nobody in 0.0 - its next to impossible to PVP in 0.0 and make enough money to lose an insured BS. If these people lost everything they have than they will have nowhere to go.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
BigBadToughGuy
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Posted - 2005.06.28 03:22:00 -
[150]
I can say after playing for two years, we started with no insurance and everything stayed pretty well balanced. You didn't see very many battleships and cruiser battles raged everywhere. Insurance was put in because too many people cried and petitioned because someone blew up their ship. NEWS FLASH - running that risk is part of the game, working your but off to get one is (was) part of the game.
This isn't some single player game where you get things because you think you've reached a certain level. You have to change your mentality and realize that the constant nagging of CCP to spoon feed you ships, safety and security is going to turn this into a lame single player game where you pass people in complete safety at gates and thats it.
Anyone else thought about playing it as it is provided by the people who's vision started it in the first place? I think they came up with a great game, a little tweaking is good, but they spend more time adding safety nets for people that content has been effected. Imagine the content and gameplay we would have if we all grew some spine and let the DEV's work on adding new features and ships. Come on folks.....
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