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Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.26 11:13:00 -
[91]
I don't insure any of my ships.
Don't see the point.
Plat payout isn't much more than basic and not paying the premium.
And I can make the premium money work for me if I keep it.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Aldanor
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Posted - 2005.06.26 11:21:00 -
[92]
I've always been on the buff insurance front, if ppl dont lose much they'll be more inclined to come back and fight again, and again, and again the only reason theyd stop fighting if insurance got buffed is because they got bored fighting, not because they are out of isk. I know its revolutionary, but if there was little to no loss more ppl would actually pvp rather than safespot/hide in stations. The only ppl that would lose from an insurance buff is the sadistic ppl.
Just my opinion from an fps player perspective....
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Marogian
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Posted - 2005.06.26 16:37:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Marogian on 26/06/2005 16:40:03
Edited by: Marogian on 26/06/2005 16:39:48
How about just making it so that when ANY ship is destroyed by a player who you are at war with or who is at war with you, then the insurance is void. This will allow wars to actually be fought successfully but at the same time protecting newbies and players who get their ships ganked by pirates.
This would also make declaring war actually worth the ISK it costs outside of Empire. |
Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.06.26 17:03:00 -
[94]
Insurance could do with some reform IMO.
I suggest that initiating an agression against a player in 1.0-0.1 space voids your insurance with a 15-minute timer. After the timer times out your insurance is valid again.
Declaring war on a corp voids your own insurance for the duration of the war. Insurances for a corp that has been declared on are valid, but they cant insure new ships for the duration of the war.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
Aalekzander Sevvari
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Posted - 2005.06.26 17:06:00 -
[95]
I say keep insurance. If only for the reason that you play a game to have fun, and spending months upon months for a new ship (or less time for smaller ships) really takes the fun out of the game quickly.
Too many people take certain aspects of this game far too seriously, and expect everyone else to throw down their own fun in the name of nerfing.
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Smith
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Posted - 2005.06.26 17:32:00 -
[96]
I havent sifted through all what people have said so if Im repeating something sorry.
If you lose a frigate you get 90% back.
If you lose a cruiser you get 70% back.
If you lose a battleship you get 50% back.
If you lose a dreadnaught you get 30% back.
This way the victim gets a bone back but not so much he can just join the fight straight after assumming he aint super rich.
I think getting rid of insurance is a griefers dream but would kill the game.
Keeping insurance as it is favours careless people too much.
So...I think the bigger the ship the bigger the risk but not so much it cripples the player beyond repair...I do have a heart be a stoney cold one.
Thanks for you time.
Smith.
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.06.26 17:51:00 -
[97]
 Originally by: Sarmaul
Something that no-one has realised: You can only insure docked ships, and Dreadnoughts can't dock.
Secondly, I wish people would read the Dev Blogs before replying with information that is completely errornous about Dreads.
actually they can dock its just that stations look too small just like with battlships really [besides stations are getting resized sometime].
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Angelus X
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Posted - 2005.06.26 18:31:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Smith
I think getting rid of insurance is a griefers dream but would kill the game.
/Agree with that too! 
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Derkan
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Posted - 2005.06.26 18:39:00 -
[99]
dumb idea.. it would kill the game
http://eve-coldfusion.com |
Monstrous Issue
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Posted - 2005.06.26 18:55:00 -
[100]
If components were insurable you'd have a point.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.06.26 19:54:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Now, to dreads. I'd personally would rather have them adhere to the tech2 type of insurance scheme as opposed to the tech1 type. Tech2 insurance in my opinion has been a golden decision on CCP's part in that flying tech2 gives you a definite edge, for a definite price. Dreads will do the same, hence they need to have the same definite price.
So, either make them require components, or make any insrance over basic unavailable for capital class ships, and keep the current insurance balance mcuh like it currently is, which imo is ideal seen from a wider perspective.
Agreed. Capitals should use the T2 insurance scheme.
Insurance is..currently biased by the absecence of T2 BS, mind you.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.06.26 20:02:00 -
[102]
What about:
1. Can only insure in Empire.
2. You can insure only 3 ships of each class per 3-month period before your premium faces a severe hiking.
For example, you own 3 BS, insure them on January 1st, and manage to lose them all in the next 2 months. You can either wait until March 2nd to insure your new BS or you can insure a new BS immediately but your platinum insurance price has been increased to, say, 49M.
(This could do with some tweaking, I guess, and I'm not too sure how feasible it would be to code)
3. Make the insurance premiums change based on number of kills in region in the last 24hrs?
4. Do something about cans left from destroyed players. Maybe make them only able to be opened by a member of the attacking gang/corp/alliance. This means you're the one who actually gains from the other players loss, not some lame vulture alt.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Harlequin01
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Posted - 2005.06.26 20:36:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Harlequin01 on 26/06/2005 20:40:11
I think it would be a much richer game if insurance were removed. Totally agree with Dalman.
I see eve as more of a virtual universe, where you should be able to crush other corporations with your military might! As it is people just bounce back, it gets boring. Killing ships used to mean a lot more imo.
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.06.26 21:12:00 -
[104]
If I could actually make money from PvPing I'd say remove insurance, since I hate NPCing/mining.
We need ship wrecks! \o/
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.26 21:22:00 -
[105]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 26/06/2005 21:33:17
Edited by: OffBeaT on 26/06/2005 21:32:09
Originally by: dalman
With the imminent introduction of Dreads, and Titans, I think this is a very appropriate question;
When will insurance be REMOVED?
Removed! Noą I think not, the only players in this game who would wonĘt something like that done are the real rich kinds that wonĘt the ability too bully smaller corps right out of the game or 00 systems. No Way should pirate gangs banging at gates or alliances have that kind of wipe you out bulling power. That just would not be a good thing nor would it help too get anyone into 00 systems.
Why was insurance introduced?
Yes, a lot of what you have said is true but you stopped short when talking about how in the early days a lot of the knobs when losing there ships with no insurance ended up buying there isk off eBay too get them back. It took a hell of a lot longer too mine for a BS then 2 freaking months let me tell yea. I know I did it in the past. I think because of no insurance and even when it cost too much too inshore something as small as a cruiser. It cost 50 bucks for 10mil in isk in those days. All because of that, no insurance and when we did get it then costing too much too have it. I donĘt wona go back too those days. Know one took any risks then and it slowed the game down too much.
What have happened since?
* Agents in empire make it 'easy' to make safe money very fast.
* All good ore has been removed from NPC regions.
* BS NPCs makes NPC hunting a good income.
* The map has been remade a whole lot.
The game got a lot more risk too it these days, not less. Witch = a lot more isk being spent do too losses. So I donĘt get your point here. Yes we can make more isk these days but saying that we also lose a lot more isk these days. So it still evens out. We all know top agent missions are paying out too much too easily. This I have read is getting fixed.
Also the only ones making big coin npc hunting is the alliances in deep systems itĘs not the norm for npc hunters like me in 00 systems that have too to hunt shallow. I donĘt get too see the 1.5mil rats. Not even 30 jumps in. I pay heavy for ship/mod losses just for that up against alliances/pirates. As for the map, its nothing but bottle necks and choke points. itĘs not an open/safe easy going map at all. The only thing keeping most of us solo/small corps going in 00 systems right now is instaĘs & BMĘs/insurance. thatĘs the only safety for us, an even that ant that great these days with probes up the ass and what have you.
What problems comes with insurance?
First off; Warfare. Warfare is VERY different from what it says on the original EVE-box. It is totally impossible to win a war through military power. The only way to win a war is through harassment. Which I find very sad. I fully understand the argument that this is a game and you shouldn't be totally destroyed.
I donĘt see your point here as well. Without insurance all these problems will still be here. Harassment will probable even be worse on smaller corps. Why not, you now can shut them down as a corps buy that I mean not just keep them from making any isk or locking them out of some systems, but making it so they can lose everything they as players have worked for. Bust there balls right out of the game, right?
I remember the war I was in, it lasted 3 months, we shore as hell lost with our insurance.
Insurance had no factor in keeping the war going.
continued....
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.26 21:22:00 -
[106]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 26/06/2005 21:37:53
Second; Diversity. This is very sad IMO. The insurance system discourage the use of rare modules. With the ship insured, expensive modules does NOT provide a 'bang for the bucks' that is worth it. Without insurance, it is worth it to fit named stuff.
how is this so? Why would The insurance system discourage the use of rare modules.
You use these too have the advantages and nothing more. How wisely you use them should have nothing too do with the insurance system. Anyone who puts these mods on in a fleet battle/solo should know wtf they are doing with them and when too use them, or donĘt put them tfo. Its bad enough you can afford these mods and most players canĘt. Now you wonĘt too take there insurance away from them so you can feel better at using these mods? Huh? I got a problem with that.
This becomes truly IRONIC as CCP constantly introduce new 1337 ship classes and call it 'content', still the insurance system in exactly the same way discourage people from using these ships! As such, ANY really rare module or ship becomes a luxury thing that ppl with loads of money buy just to show off their wealth, instead of the same stuff without insurance being an awesome military unit that spread fear in local.
whelp, these ships/mods are a luxury for a lot of players and should be kept so.
If you can afford too use and fight with them itĘs a statement in its self too others of your power/status vs. them. Not too say your so post too have more skill then newer players and know wtf your doing with them. (ie) so you donĘt lose ships as much? you have skill, kind of thing, worthy of being in these ships rightą
Third; Money sinks.
Make docking fees, the larger the ship class the more the fees. Better taxes, taxes on out of system sales.. They can come up with better ideas then them I hope myself.
The intro of Dreads.
Finally! But the Dreads are becoming exactly what a BS was supposed to be, and was, at the beginning. SO, HOW WILL INSURANCE WORK ON THE DREADS??? The insurance on BSs built on one single idea that is TOTALLY WRONG; "If you have made enough isk to buy a BS, then you've also earned the RIGHT to always have a BS".
So will the stance be the same on Dreadnaughts? When someone buys a Dread, has he earned the right to always have a Dread?
If NO, then how come this change???
No, Dreads are an Elite ship and should be seen that way. ArenĘt they sop post too be kept rare or something that is not common like another ship?
Well, the only way too keep them rare is too inshore them like an elite ship I guess.
Same with T2 BS and whatever is T2 in ships and up.
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XkoalaX
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Posted - 2005.06.26 21:52:00 -
[107]
My ideal on a insurance remake.
From 1.0 to 0.1 you have 0% to 100% on market value, systems 1.0 to 0.5 pay's out 100% on Tech 1 frigates and 0.7 to 0.5 would pay out 100% on Tech 1 cruisers. the rest use the sliding scale.
This way new players have an area to start in and learn bits and pieces of the game. And as you progress thru the learning curve you can move out of the "safe" system and still yield cash back. Wars should never give out insurance (on the starting corp), because no one would insure your car if you said your going to drop it frome a crane.
This will hopefully create a ground for moving out to less secure space but not all the way out to 0.0. Also improve teamwork and more corp based activity the further away from 1.0 you come.
In no way are these figures to be taken as absolutes but rather as a general guideline for discussion.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.06.26 22:51:00 -
[108]
Removing insurance entirely I'm hesitant to comment on, because there are many factors to consider.
The real problem is that battleship loss is usually the largest form of loss your average player takes. Compared to the isk pulled in between losses, its a joke. You pay 32mil for 3 months of coverage? WTF?
Insurance used to be a week long, then it got changed to 3 weeks, then TWELVE? Even when the economy wasn't overinflated with isk, back when npc battleships were only common the the darkest deepest parts of 0.0 space.. 12 weeks was too long.
Insurance was the real killer to pvp, as was the basic crap. There was NO such thing as basic insurance. It was 3 weeks, or nothing. Thats how it should be.
The benefit? Make people pay up 3 times as much.. and those who don't are going to feel a sting to their wallets, rather than pad it up with 40mil isk that came out of thin air.
- 3 weeks of insurance coverage
- NO more basic insurance payout
- NO insurance on capital class ships
There is too much money in EVE as a result of it being easy to get, and there is little point to it, as you don't lose much in combat.
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_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:20:00 -
[109]
If my battleship insurance gets removed than make it so I can kill frigates without blinking an eye, do you have any idea how much more frigate fleets will show up if they remove insurance
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Kashre
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:33:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Blind Man
If my battleship insurance gets removed than make it so I can kill frigates without blinking an eye, do you have any idea how much more frigate fleets will show up if they remove insurance
Would that be all that bad? If insurance were removed, then people would stop flying BS all the time, save them for the money maker and then bring what they could afford to lose. You'd probably see the mega rich people in BS, the well off people in BC, and then a buttload of cruisers and frigates. That *would* add some diversity.
And the BS (and dreads) would still have a place in fleet warfare, which is generally the province of alliances anyways. They'll be needed to take down POS and outsposts/stations.
Either way, I dont think it will make much difference. People are saying if you nerf insurance it will kill PvP... but damn why does everyone think that not being able to afford to fly a BS is the end of the game? There are plenty of other ships classes.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:38:00 -
[111]
Although i completely agree, it's too late in the game to change such things. We cannot expect more 'balanced' fleets, because alot of people have simply spend all their time specialising in Battleships.
I agree with Digi though, insurance needs to be back to the old 3 weeks.
/Elve
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Impale
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:43:00 -
[112]
Bad idea, keep insurance the same.
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GigaIndy
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:45:00 -
[113]
My bs reguarly risk 100mil + in modules alone.
So you wont me to risk another 100mil in the ship it self?
If you remove insurance You'll never see Battleships anymore, Not everyone can afford to lose insane ammounts of money to some moronic gank fleet.
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:46:00 -
[114]
'No-claim' for insurances, where your fee is determined by how quickly and how many shipsin that class you've lost. Make this penalty more harsh for more expensive shipss
Also decrease the payout for battleships a bit and make sure it's even lower for dreadnoughts.
Spacerats recruiting! |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:46:00 -
[115]
Quote:
If you remove insurance You'll never see Battleships anymore
...and what a glorious day that'll be.
__________________________
Finite Horizon
Your end is our beginning.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.26 23:49:00 -
[116]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 26/06/2005 23:53:27
Edited by: OffBeaT on 26/06/2005 23:50:19
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Removing insurance entirely I'm hesitant to comment on, because there are many factors to consider.
The real problem is that battleship loss is usually the largest form of loss your average player takes. Compared to the isk pulled in between losses, its a joke. You pay 32mil for 3 months of coverage? WTF?
Insurance used to be a week long, then it got changed to 3 weeks, then TWELVE? Even when the economy wasn't overinflated with isk, back when npc battleships were only common the the darkest deepest parts of 0.0 space.. 12 weeks was too long.
Insurance was the real killer to pvp, as was the basic crap. There was NO such thing as basic insurance. It was 3 weeks, or nothing. Thats how it should be.
The benefit? Make people pay up 3 times as much.. and those who don't are going to feel a sting to their wallets, rather than pad it up with 40mil isk that came out of thin air.
- 3 weeks of insurance coverage
- NO more basic insurance payout
- NO insurance on capital class ships
There is too much money in EVE as a result of it being easy to get, and there is little point to it, as you don't lose much in combat.
-
hehe.. i dont know DC, remeber that scorp you and 8 other mOo took out on me. well.. that + my implants = 500mil that day. all i got back was a sinking 110mil.
i would say my loss was pritty dam big for a one day loss..
you don't lose much in combat. 
anyway.. BS arnt that big of a deal anymore, not like the past anyway..with t2bs soon comming and dreads and all.
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Takrolimus
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Posted - 2005.06.27 00:10:00 -
[117]
Originally by: OffBeaT
Edited by: OffBeaT on 26/06/2005 23:55:26
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Removing insurance entirely I'm hesitant to comment on, because there are many factors to consider.
The real problem is that battleship loss is usually the largest form of loss your average player takes. Compared to the isk pulled in between losses, its a joke. You pay 32mil for 3 months of coverage? WTF?
Insurance used to be a week long, then it got changed to 3 weeks, then TWELVE? Even when the economy wasn't overinflated with isk, back when npc battleships were only common the the darkest deepest parts of 0.0 space.. 12 weeks was too long.
Insurance was the real killer to pvp, as was the basic crap. There was NO such thing as basic insurance. It was 3 weeks, or nothing. Thats how it should be.
The benefit? Make people pay up 3 times as much.. and those who don't are going to feel a sting to their wallets, rather than pad it up with 40mil isk that came out of thin air.
- 3 weeks of insurance coverage
- NO more basic insurance payout
- NO insurance on capital class ships
There is too much money in EVE as a result of it being easy to get, and there is little point to it, as you don't lose much in combat.
-
hehe.. i dont know DC, remeber that scorp you and 8 other mOo took out on me. well.. that + my implants = 500mil that day. all i got back was a sinking 110mil.
i would say my loss was pritty dam big for a one day loss..
you don't lose much in combat.
anyway.. BS arnt that big of a deal anymore, not like the past. with t2bs soon comming and dreads and all.
Am I the only one who reads Offbeats posts and, after briefly considering whether he is related to ollobrains, despairs for the future of the genepool?
Fallicious arguement, Straw man, Anecdotal 'proof', Unsupported Statements, Opinion dressed up as fact, spelling and grammar of a dead rabbit, criminal misuse of smilies; the list goes on and on.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.06.27 00:15:00 -
[118]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/06/2005 00:18:40
thats too bad. what i say is more real then what you guys are saying..
oh, who the **** cares about my perfict gramer.
what are you some kind of ****head gramer nerd!
huh?
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2005.06.27 00:38:00 -
[119]
Hmmmm.....
T2 ships are very much NOT helped by insurance. To be honest I only really fly HACs, AFs, and ceptors. As soon as we have t2 bses and t2 dreads, it will be ok.
Then, the 'uber' t2 ships will die, and you will have to fall back to your 'guaranteed' t1 equivalent.
Keeps the carebears happy (8 miners is 8 miners weather you have 90% exp resistance or 1%) and means that by wiping out the the expensive ships of an enemy you are costing him dearly :)
Plus it removes another stupid thing from the game that will reduce the uberness of agents: WTS CN Raven 999999 quadrillion isk
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XandarTheCruel
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Posted - 2005.06.27 00:51:00 -
[120]
Insurance is fine as it is now 
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