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VOTE: Remove Alts from Eve? Yay or Nay?

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McBane	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:16:00 - [1] Ok, prolly a bit of a touchy one this, but IÆm interested to know the general opinion on this subject. IÆm against Alts in Eve and think they should be removed û despite using them myself û because I think they take away from the game more than they bring to it. Without going into detail, the following are the key general reasons why I think Alts should be removedà They remove character accountability. They provide a way for a character to circumvent in game rules and mechanisms. They remove risk from a character. Basically, I view Alts as one big Eve exploit. As far as I am aware the only reason CCP made Alts part of Eve was for the purpose of corp espionage. While this is a valid use I think that there could be many other ways of introducing corp espionage without introducing all the problems Alts bring to Eve. Before voting, please assume that If Alts were removed, CCP would provide some form of compensation to those whom have highly skilled Alts û for example, transferring them to a new account with 1 month free per 1mil SP. I am also aware of issues such as trial and second accounts, but these issues are far from the level of Alts as there is already restrictions / money involved which reduce the extent of the Alt like uses for them. So, remove Alts from Eve? Yay or Nay?
sableye	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:20:00 - [2] I vote no, if alts had never been added I think it would be better but now they are here and a few people do use them legitamtly, and many peple can't afford a second account.
MooKids	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:23:00 - [3] Guess it is that time of the month again when someone has to bring this up again. Having alts allow people to try different aspects of EVE, so they are not completely retricted to one way of life. It also allows specialized characters, IE PVPer, Builder, Researcher, Hauler. Dumb idea to remove alts, would result in people quitting the game and completely unneeded. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.
McBane	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:26:00 - [4] Originally by: MooKids Guess it is that time of the month again when someone has to bring this up again. Having alts allow people to try different aspects of EVE, so they are not completely retricted to one way of life. It also allows specialized characters, IE PVPer, Builder, Researcher, Hauler. Dumb idea to remove alts, would result in people quitting the game and completely unneeded. Nay would have done
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:40:00 - [5] No
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:48:00 - [6] Quote: VOTE: Remove Alts from Eve? Yay or Nay? Nay. I have quite a few uses for alts and they do not involve ganking or whatever it is that might upset the crybabies. I'm not alone either. Mai's Idealog
Dark Silver	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:52:00 - [7] Don't forget that having an alt allows you to train to a certain ammount of SP points on a character so that you don't get into the really expensive clone areas, and focus on having different accounts good at doing different things (boy what i would give to take all my SP and split them amongst multiple alts :))
MooKids	Posted - 2005.06.27 00:59:00 - [8] Originally by: McBane Nay would have done Don't expect to post an argument without a counter-arguement. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.
Jana Cova	Posted - 2005.06.27 01:00:00 - [9] ffs
Alt Citizen13	Posted - 2005.06.27 01:38:00 - [10] NOOOO dont kill meeeeee!!!!!!!11
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.06.27 01:47:00 - [11] Yayzored. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Hot Temper	Posted - 2005.06.27 01:52:00 - [12] You would have me die? You meanie
Thousand Fluffles	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:08:00 - [13] Please. We are human too. We live, and love, and breathe just like you.
Snaps	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:19:00 - [14] you mean alts or alt accounts. whats the diffrents, realy? if we all droped are alt accounts eve would go broke real soon. out of the 60 thousand paid accounts 20 grand worth of them i bet are alt acounts easy. this is why players think eve is getting a lot of new players that i bet its not.
SPIONKOP	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:21:00 - [15] no ffs
Chith	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:23:00 - [16] More than any other MMO I've seen, Eve already binds a significant amount of permanency to main chars. I hereby deem you a malcontent. --- The Tarsis Shriners
Eirelynn	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:24:00 - [17] Hey, I have a better idea. Lets kill all the mains instead. Anyway, what about ppl who used to pay for two accounts, then paid $10 (or whatever the fee is) to transfer a trained char to a single account? For example, I have a carebear industrialist to support my pvp character. What happens then if alts are removed? Do I just lose a 8 mil sp char just cause my 'main' has 10 mil sp?
Khargos	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Khargos on 27/06/2005 02:29:35 NO, STOP POSTING THIS.
Balklanac	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:29:00 - [19] I am not for killing alts. But I am for alts being declared...in character bio.Basically all chars per account being visible when you click on one characters bio.That way alts remain but you cant pull any Willy Wonka **** like bankrupting an enemy corp or spy without consequence to your main.
Noriath	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:40:00 - [20] On the one hand alts that you just make to have different characters are fine, but I don't like people who commit crimes with one character and reap the benefits with another that can't be held responsible. That's just idiotic.
Eirelynn	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Balklanac I am not for killing alts. But I am for alts being declared...in character bio.Basically all chars per account being visible when you click on one characters bio.That way alts remain but you cant pull any Willy Wonka **** like bankrupting an enemy corp or spy without consequence to your main. Hey, I like Willy Wonka.
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2005.06.27 02:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Cylynex I vote for stop posting the same stupid threads over and over again. If you don't know what these are, sign up any of my exciting courses, just send me 100 Mil ISK and I'lll enroll you: 101 - Alts and their Non-Impact on Society 102 - Jet Can Mining, Ore Thieves and You 103 - I WAS PK'D (And nobody cares) 104 - THE EVIL BOOKMARKS. How even the complainers use em. 105 - Eternal Newb 106 - Insincere "Thank you CCP" Threads - The real story. 107 - Level 4 Missions and Economics 108 - OMG BOOKMARKS AGAIN. 109 - Dumb Polls that like 5 People reply to not counting the 5 or so that make fun of the poll. Signed.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.06.27 03:15:00 - [23] Nay! I personally dont have any use of alts (2 accounts) but its silly idea at this point, imho. Some people have 15+ mil SP on 2 characters, so which one is alt there? -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2005.06.27 03:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/06/2005 03:05:47 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/06/2005 03:05:07 Originally by: Cylynex I vote for stop posting the same stupid threads over and over again. If you don't know what these are, sign up any of my exciting courses, just send me 100 Mil ISK and I'lll enroll you: 101 - Alts and their Non-Impact on Society 102 - Jet Can Mining, Ore Thieves and You 103 - I WAS PK'D (And nobody cares) 104 - THE EVIL BOOKMARKS. How even the complainers use em. 105 - Eternal Newb 106 - Insincere "Thank you CCP" Threads - The real story. 107 - Level 4 Missions and Economics 108 - OMG BOOKMARKS AGAIN. 109 - Dumb Polls that like 5 People reply to not counting the 5 or so that make fun of the poll. Oh and lets not forget 110 - why carebears are whimps!!! 111 - why are the mean people greifing us :( 112 - THIS WELL USED GAME FEATURE IS AN EXPLOT ZOMG! 113 - Carebears sux lol 114 - why my corp > your corp 115 - how yuo rich ppl get so rich!!11 116 - why people are going to leave eve because of the next patch!111 117 - goodbye all (nobody cares) 118 - eve is unfair for me, please nerf the people doing better than me :( Sheessh... As usuall... no luv for research... 119 - The Research Lottery from Hell 120 - Own up! Who's hoarding all the t2 BPOs? - - Two tales: Silver Burning
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2005.06.27 03:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Herko Kerghans Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/06/2005 03:05:47 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/06/2005 03:05:07 Originally by: Cylynex I vote for stop posting the same stupid threads over and over again. If you don't know what these are, sign up any of my exciting courses, just send me 100 Mil ISK and I'lll enroll you: 101 - Alts and their Non-Impact on Society 102 - Jet Can Mining, Ore Thieves and You 103 - I WAS PK'D (And nobody cares) 104 - THE EVIL BOOKMARKS. How even the complainers use em. 105 - Eternal Newb 106 - Insincere "Thank you CCP" Threads - The real story. 107 - Level 4 Missions and Economics 108 - OMG BOOKMARKS AGAIN. 109 - Dumb Polls that like 5 People reply to not counting the 5 or so that make fun of the poll. Oh and lets not forget 110 - why carebears are whimps!!! 111 - why are the mean people greifing us :( 112 - THIS WELL USED GAME FEATURE IS AN EXPLOT ZOMG! 113 - Carebears sux lol 114 - why my corp > your corp 115 - how yuo rich ppl get so rich!!11 116 - why people are going to leave eve because of the next patch!111 117 - goodbye all (nobody cares) 118 - eve is unfair for me, please nerf the people doing better than me :( Sheessh... As usuall... no luv for research... 119 - The Research Lottery from Hell 120 - Own up! Who's hoarding all the t2 BPOs? - Oh god how could i forget! I must be getting old. .. on a related note 260K RP and no BPO
DARTHEXIDOUS	Posted - 2005.06.27 03:37:00 - [26] NAY.
Bubba Fett	Posted - 2005.06.27 03:38:00 - [27] I'd love to see alts gone. I have alts and use them for some stuff that I wouldn't risk my main for, but I'd be happy to get rid of them if they took them out of the game. Perhaps they could transfer half the alt's skill points to the main character so all the training time wouldn't be wasted to compensate people for the loss of their characters. It seems like the main reason to have alts is to avoid consequences. Alts doing suicide ganks in high sec, alts doing corp thefts, alts doing scams, the list goes on and on. Sure, some people make hauler or industrial alts, but you could add those skills to your main and all you'd lose would be the basic skill points you got when you created your alt. I think alts take more away from the game than they add.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.27 03:40:00 - [28] get yer grubby hands of my alt. ------------- The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Dane	Posted - 2005.06.27 04:17:00 - [29] Sounds like a lot of alt paranoia out there... Nay.
Hi'Ryan Greetos	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:31:00 - [30] Because I am living person too and I can say things I could not dare to say. Don't hate me please.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:35:00 - [31] Eh, if it came to it I'd like alts removed completely, but removing that (unlikely) option, they could at least increase the ridiculously short recycle time. Up it to a few weeks, and make it so if you log on to an alt while it's on the biomass queue the countdown is restarted. That stops people from recycling for suicide kessie gank-squads and the like. And I can't think of ONE realistic, proper reason why somebody would need to create a new alt after creating 3 in a hurry. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Oron	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:46:00 - [32] i dont like alts but you cant take them away after sutch long time so: no
Bozse	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Bubba Fett I'd love to see alts gone. I have alts and use them for some stuff that I wouldn't risk my main for, but I'd be happy to get rid of them if they took them out of the game. Perhaps they could transfer half the alt's skill points to the main character so all the training time wouldn't be wasted to compensate people for the loss of their characters. It seems like the main reason to have alts is to avoid consequences. Alts doing suicide ganks in high sec, alts doing corp thefts, alts doing scams, the list goes on and on. Sure, some people make hauler or industrial alts, but you could add those skills to your main and all you'd lose would be the basic skill points you got when you created your alt. I think alts take more away from the game than they add. So u'r saying that on my other account where i have one 24m SP char and one 9m SP char i would have to lose 4,5m SP, not going to happen and if it would ccp would lose so many customers that they wouldn't know what hit them.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:54:00 - [34] Quote: So u'r saying that on my other account where i have one 24m SP char and one 9m SP char i would have to lose 4,5m SP, not going to happen and if it would ccp would lose so many customers that they wouldn't know what hit them. Ugh, I hate that 'argument'. Do you think CCP are really so shallow that they base the welfare of the game below trying to get as many people playing (and paying) as possible? If they did, EVE would be a WoW clone. If they did, they wouldn't be removing instas and increasing log-off timer. If they did, EVE would have been dead a year ago. While I (grudgingly) agree that it's too late to remove alts after people have trained them up, they should really stop the unaccountability and alt spammage. Massively increase the recycle time and make all alts linked (ie, you can see who is whom's alt) to the main would be a good move. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.06.27 08:10:00 - [35] Only way they can remove alts is to make the game stop accepting new ones. I know quite a few people who's trained up alts on other accounts, then transfered them to their main account when they can do what they are supposed to do. Ynay? -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Bozse	Posted - 2005.06.27 08:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Nero Scuro Quote: So u'r saying that on my other account where i have one 24m SP char and one 9m SP char i would have to lose 4,5m SP, not going to happen and if it would ccp would lose so many customers that they wouldn't know what hit them. Ugh, I hate that 'argument'. Do you think CCP are really so shallow that they base the welfare of the game below trying to get as many people playing (and paying) as possible? If they did, EVE would be a WoW clone. If they did, they wouldn't be removing instas and increasing log-off timer. If they did, EVE would have been dead a year ago. While I (grudgingly) agree that it's too late to remove alts after people have trained them up, they should really stop the unaccountability and alt spammage. Massively increase the recycle time and make all alts linked (ie, you can see who is whom's alt) to the main would be a good move. Im not saying that there is no issues with alts in general i was mearly pointing out a big hole in he's sollution with the alts that are trained, and alot of people will leave the game if ccp starts to remove/only allowing 50% of the SP to be transfered thus taking away the time spent and payed for to get those SP. And i know that they are not in to the whole "lets get 1m subscribers and be rich" mentality but i do think they would lose to much by getting rid of trained alts that are in game atm.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.06.27 08:32:00 - [37] Boo... I like my alts. Only thing they actually do is hold two corporations for me. They don't even really ever undock. Both those corps were actually once active, now all that remain are my two alts.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.27 08:48:00 - [38] I vote NO. I would vote yes, if there was a way to work around your corp history with your main. If the reputation system would be more flexible reputation and history could be sufficient to provide acountability. As it is, too many peiople are simply too narrow minded for this to work like it is. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.06.27 08:50:00 - [39] What'd happen to the Alt Factory then! [Heterocephalus glaber]
AlexK100	Posted - 2005.06.27 08:52:00 - [40] no ffs Please use old threads unless you have some NEW idea. PS I vote for temporary forum bans for whinners
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.06.27 09:09:00 - [41] Originally by: AlexK100 no ffs Please use old threads unless you have some NEW idea. PS I vote for temporary forum bans for whinners I vote for permenant everything bans for alts. --- So, what was that you fed me? Battery acid, mostly. That must be why I feel charged up! Ho ho! Actually, you'll just die. ...oh.
hired goon	Posted - 2005.06.27 09:14:00 - [42] I agree with a permanent everything ban for alts. ------------ We come in peace. And tanks.
Gungankllr	Posted - 2005.06.27 09:51:00 - [43] There's a difference between alts used on the forums to be a general ass to alts used as industrial characters, for hauling, or to deliver stuff from empire to a character with a low security status. Alts do have their uses, it's just the gomers that feel the need to smack without involving their main is the problem. Most of the posts out there that are either started by an alt, or are contributed to by an alt end up being locked due to generally bad behavior. I don't mind alts ingame for industrial stuff, but I wish there was a way to limit alt posting to only the buy/sell forums so people don't use a locator agent to find you after you've bought a 6 billion isk ship or a 3 billion isk module. Just my two cents. www.hadean.org
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.06.27 10:13:00 - [44] I vote for removal of the alts. Why does everyone think they deserve the right to experience everything? The game would be so much better if people could no longer be their own miners, producers, traders, haulers, fighters, agentrunners and scouts at the same time. Eve already has a great skillsystem allowing you to switch trades. The only thing it would need it to swap attributes for lots of ISK. I think the most important reason why people don't like the idea of removal of alts is because they already have millions of skillpoints in those. Perhaps if CCP would come with some sort of one time relocation system of skillpoints between characters the transistion would be a lot less painful. The only issue would be with the people with multiple accounts, but I can live with that I guess. Spacerats recruiting!
Naos Zapatero	Posted - 2005.06.27 10:14:00 - [45] Agreed, but nothing will ever be done about it its too late now. EVE would have been so much better without them.
Matrix Aran	Posted - 2005.06.27 10:21:00 - [46] Um no. Keep them. Enough said.
Sha Dar	Posted - 2005.06.27 12:55:00 - [47] Edited by: Sha Dar on 27/06/2005 12:55:30 No. If people want to play with two account they should be able to, and besides, do you really think with EVE being the niche game it is, that CCP are going to close down hundreds of paying account for no good reason.. ?
Roshan longshot	Posted - 2005.06.27 13:56:00 - [48] Originally by: McBane Ok, prolly a bit of a touchy one this, but IÆm interested to know the general opinion on this subject. IÆm against Alts in Eve and think they should be removed û despite using them myself û because I think they take away from the game more than they bring to it. Without going into detail, the following are the key general reasons why I think Alts should be removedà They remove character accountability. They provide a way for a character to circumvent in game rules and mechanisms. They remove risk from a character. Basically, I view Alts as one big Eve exploit. As far as I am aware the only reason CCP made Alts part of Eve was for the purpose of corp espionage. While this is a valid use I think that there could be many other ways of introducing corp espionage without introducing all the problems Alts bring to Eve. Before voting, please assume that If Alts were removed, CCP would provide some form of compensation to those whom have highly skilled Alts û for example, transferring them to a new account with 1 month free per 1mil SP. I am also aware of issues such as trial and second accounts, but these issues are far from the level of Alts as there is already restrictions / money involved which reduce the extent of the Alt like uses for them. So, remove Alts from Eve? Yay or Nay? WTF over.... This is a dead horse, so dead their is no meat left on it. Alts or in proper terms Characters 1,2,and 3 are there for a reason. Dont like projictile guns...try lasers with you Amarr Alt. Character one is pure combat, but you need a BPO researched? Log onto Character #2 feel like a jerk today? Log onto character #3 and go PK.. Sombody must have been riped off by a alt..... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box and from this site.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.06.27 14:03:00 - [49] Quote: I vote for stop posting the same stupid threads over and over again. If you don't know what these are, sign up any of my exciting courses, just send me 100 Mil ISK and I'lll enroll you: 101 - Alts and their Non-Impact on Society 102 - Jet Can Mining, Ore Thieves and You 103 - I WAS PK'D (And nobody cares) 104 - THE EVIL BOOKMARKS. How even the complainers use em. 105 - Eternal Newb 106 - Insincere "Thank you CCP" Threads - The real story. 107 - Level 4 Missions and Economics 108 - OMG BOOKMARKS AGAIN. 109 - Dumb Polls that like 5 People reply to not counting the 5 or so that make fun of the poll. Generally the threads have a topic. That topic will give clues as to what the thread is about. If that topic pertains to anything on your list, simply do not click on it. There, your problem is solved. Now stop whining... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Ob Noxious	Posted - 2005.06.27 14:06:00 - [50] While in some part I agree that alts are abused, I must also say that it would mean my death if they were removed. I do not roam around and cause grief to the general populace, but I do perform a certain amount of Intelligence work when required. This alone makes me very useful. If alts were removed, my death would be fairly painless since I don't have lots of skill points as yet, but, on the other hand if alts were removed I would simply appear on another account and still be in the game to perform my given tasks. So, I have mixed feelings about this discussion.
Alttastic	Posted - 2005.06.27 14:07:00 - [51] You can't remove me, I have 10 kids to feed.
Flyyn	Posted - 2005.06.27 14:14:00 - [52] I am not an Alt, at least I was not born that way. I was the main character on this account till my owner seen a Min BS and said "Gawd that is ugly!!!" So I became an alt... I do get to go out once and awhile and harrass some Amarr skunk. Maybe one day my cheap arse owner will fess up another $15 and buy a second account, and transfer me to there...
missedme	Posted - 2005.06.27 14:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Alttastic You can't remove me, I have 10 kids to feed. And your late with the child support payments... Get off the idea, we alts are here to stay - I am used a lot sometimes more then my masters main.
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2005.06.27 15:10:00 - [54] I would be 200% for removing alts, but it's not going to happen... And all alts are not just "disposable characters", some are "secondary mains" or so, so no way I guess. But (old thread, so let's bring back old propositions), what about "declaring" alts on you info screen, in a header in our bios maybe? just declaring all characters names on the same account, problem 90% solved... some people wouldn't like this (you can enjoy using another character without being convo'ed by all your "main"'s friend or something alike), but I don't think this would be a serious problem...
Ebil Fred	Posted - 2005.06.27 16:24:00 - [55] Uses for alts 1) What about us forum warriors. Some of us are banned by our corps from posting with our mains. 2) A main that is a law abiding citizen of Eve and an alt thats an ore theif / pirate / escrow scammer. Tell me how you could integrate those professions. 3) Always away from home fighting with your main?? Why not have an alt that you log on to make trades then log off and log main back on to continue the gate camp or whatever?? 4) Same as 3 but to tend the labs / factories. After all we have to make money to pay for the combat ships don't we. 5) Been here a while and got a lot of experience? Maybe you want to pass on some of that knowledge and experience. Make an alt and sit in noob corp chatting to noob pilots. Me? Options 1 and 5 I dont have any skills past the ones I got when I was created. my main has been here a looong time and sometime I'm sure I'll be recycled to allow another just like me to see some more new faces in a different noob corp. Any other suggestions for jobs an alt can have? Cheers EF PS soz for slightly long post but the "ban the alts threads" are a recurring theme apparently normally brought on by someone getting ripped off and assuming its an alt.
Skeeve	Posted - 2005.06.27 16:50:00 - [56] I'd vote NAY.. with a provisio.... make alts ACCOUNTABLE.. i.e. no more of this I have a "good guy" for regular play and a "scamming alt" so I can screwwith people .. Make all a players alts show up on your Bio.. Solves a lot of needless pain... The only ones who disagree are the ones who take advantage of others and have something to hide. MAKE ALTS ACCOUNTABLE!! "SHOW US YOUR HOOTERS!" - traditional greeting at the Annual Owl Fanciers Convention
Khargos	Posted - 2005.06.27 16:52:00 - [57] let thread die plz kthnx bye.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.06.27 19:21:00 - [58] Quote: WTF over.... This is a dead horse, so dead their is no meat left on it. Alts or in proper terms Characters 1,2,and 3 are there for a reason. Dont like projictile guns...try lasers with you Amarr Alt. Character one is pure combat, but you need a BPO researched? Log onto Character #2 feel like a jerk today? Log onto character #3 and go PK.. Sombody must have been riped off by a alt..... 1. It takes just as long to train up laser guns on a Minmatar character as it does on an Amarr one. 2. You won't have learning skills or general gunnery skills on your Amarr alt so it'll actually take LONGER to train on the alt. 3. How is 'I don't want to be accountable for my actions and be a jerk' ANY kind of valid argument!? Seriously, do you expect to be able to put a mask on in real life and go punch people in the face and not be accountable for that? Do you expect or want other people to go don a similar mask and do the same to you? Because that's what an alt is. Being a jerk is a big part of EVE. Escrow scamming, ore thievery, corp theft, etc, are all good things I personally wouldn't want removed. However, NONE of these take ANY risk to do with alts. You are completely unaccountable for your actions. Nobody can get revenge. It's all reward, no risk, which I shouldn't have to point out is seriously ****** up. There is no good argument for the removal of alts besides those people who have already spent time training them up. Training - it takes longer to train on an alt than it does on a main. You also don't lose anything by training with your main. This is a retarded argument. Roleplaying - frankly, if you feel your roleplay is stifled by the race you are, you're not very inventive OR imaginitive. There are Minmatar religious fanatics, Caldari freedom lovers, etc. Being a jerk - you call this an argument!? Accountability and responsibility are the two most important parts of any modern society. Without them, everybody is merely looking out for themselves, because they have nothing to lose by doing so. Bring accountability into the game, CCP, whichever way you want. Removing alts, showing 'family' ties, whatever. But for the love of god, just DO IT! --- So, what was that you fed me? Battery acid, mostly. That must be why I feel charged up! Ho ho! Actually, you'll just die. ...oh.
McBane	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:02:00 - [59] lol, so that's an overall Nay then - with a lil ole bit hostility of the topic chucked in to give that forum authenticity! CCP are bound to remove'um now then! lol
Sadist	Posted - 2005.06.27 20:15:00 - [60] I think 2nd accounts are an exploit, you dont see me ***ing. Its the way these guys from iceland earn more lettuce and they're not giving it up. I've never seen forum whining make some sane(this is arguable though) people willfully forfeit their revenue. --------------- Originally by:** Dark Shikari "One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
Lig Lira	Posted - 2005.06.27 21:29:00 - [61] The sum of SP across my 3 alts is about 27mil, let me put that all into one character and you can get rid of alts.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2005.06.27 21:48:00 - [62] Accountability is a very important aspect in any persistent world, especially one that involves PvP. For this reason, I support the removal of alts, but since I'm certain that won't happen, I instead support making some way for players to automatically know what characters are run by the same player.
Knukalz	Posted - 2005.06.27 21:54:00 - [63] Yay. It will **** off a lot of people to start, but once they stop crying, Eve will be a better game.
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2005.06.27 22:28:00 - [64] nay i use all my alts contantly and have them all trained, i only call this my main because it was my first character
gameforce	Posted - 2005.06.27 23:32:00 - [65] Edited by: gameforce on 27/06/2005 23:33:09 No way 0mg h4xors i quit eve if they gonna remove my army of alts
NanoRunner	Posted - 2005.06.27 23:34:00 - [66] They need to go, but it is too late. How do you compensate someone for the training done on alts of an account? Possibly give them a big surge of SP to place where they want i guess. Agian alts break this game and many of it core concepts, but this mistake prolly cant be reversed now. At the least they should make all alts share a last name, and share sec rating.
Dakath	Posted - 2005.06.28 01:26:00 - [67] Alts. Yes, IF the player can pick which ones go and transfer all skill points to his main, on the skills of his choice. Multiple accounts? Multiple accounts mean multiple payments to CCP. Real. Life. Money. CCP guys have families to feed just like the rest of us. Multiple accounts are here to stay, forever. Get used to it. I chopped Bunny into little pieces. \ ( )( X > ) ( .x ) / < _ Muahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Sic Transit Gloria Bunny!
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2005.06.28 02:49:00 - [68] Like I've said before, have it be one of the requirements for transmuting a character to jove, forfeit alts. Convert Stations
aeti	Posted - 2005.06.28 02:52:00 - [69] remove alts: no expose alts: yes
Rayisa	Posted - 2005.06.28 03:26:00 - [70] Nay... I have Multiple Personality Syndrome... Ray is my main, only cause she is cuteist. "Big, Strong, WOW!"
Aleis	Posted - 2005.06.28 03:50:00 - [71] although i hate people htat exploit them via Alt thievs, they have a lot of respectable uses and it's to late to change anyhow, You can bet every one that runs a starbase has an alt logged there just so they can run them.
Nathaniel Stark	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:42:00 - [72] As several posters have mentioned, Alts have legitimate uses, enabling players to try out aspects of the game that they are unwilling or unable to experience with their mains. Also, now that Alts have been ingame for so long, and many players have Alt characters with hefty skillpoint totals, it would be pretty hard to take away Alts witout a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. The problem that most folks have with Alts is not that players have two or three characters, but rather that an Alt is a totally anonymous way to act like a [muppet / corpthief / griefer / insert pejorative] with no possible comeback. Solve this by adding to each character's bio an indication of the names of other characters held by that character. This also solves the issue of using a suicide Alt then deleting it, since it would be easy to see who the main is. Basically, I think very few players are upset with being scammed, robbed or griefed as long as there's some culpability.
Earthan	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:49:00 - [73] yes remove them. But truly th eproblem is still with poeple having multiple accouts , they can still do the same things. So removing altsseems abit pointless in the end Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Earthan	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:50:00 - [74] Originally by: Nathaniel Stark As several posters have mentioned, Alts have legitimate uses, enabling players to try out aspects of the game that they are unwilling or unable to experience with their mains. Also, now that Alts have been ingame for so long, and many players have Alt characters with hefty skillpoint totals, it would be pretty hard to take away Alts witout a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. The problem that most folks have with Alts is not that players have two or three characters, but rather that an Alt is a totally anonymous way to act like a [muppet / corpthief / griefer / insert pejorative] with no possible comeback. Solve this by adding to each character's bio an indication of the names of other characters held by that character. This also solves the issue of using a suicide Alt then deleting it, since it would be easy to see who the main is. Basically, I think very few players are upset with being scammed, robbed or griefed as long as there's some culpability. Nice idea Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Discorporation	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:51:00 - [75] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Like I've said before, have it be one of the requirements for transmuting a character to jove, forfeit alts. no problem with this, whatsoever :D [Heterocephalus glaber]
fairimear	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:55:00 - [76] Edited by: fairimear on 28/06/2005 09:58:03 No why? If players want multiple acounts they are allowed, can't afford 1? not my problem. Alts provide a means of expressing one's opinions without backlash. Many eve players are vindictive, bias and highly arogant. posting with a main can lead to more trouble. Why some 1 been spilling your little secrets and you can't get at them? thats what you get for keeping secrets or lieing. Alts used to theif ore, corp hanger and so on? Yep they exist in RL to. their called con-men and change their name, appearance and life style to operate in a manner they can't be traced or take any blame. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Baleine4Nerver	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:57:00 - [77] Definately NO I can only afford 1 acct and use my 3 chars for different tasks. In fact I am an alt, my alt brother and I simply perform money making tasks to supplement my main. We love him to bits and do not mind transfering all our isk to him so he can buy ships to be podded in. Also, the game would be severly restricted to 1 char.. say your at war and in enemt territory, how you going to make momey.. and further more, how could you specialise in PvP ? and manufacturing.. you could'nt. Alts are cool, I say that because I'm not used for anything sinister, just building refining etc. While my alt bro does other stuff. And further to your comment on 1 month free for every mill SP.. that would just not cut it for me. I would expect to be able to transfer all my alts SP into my main, if alts were to be removed. I suspect the majority of players would feel the same, its not the money, its the time invested.
Earthan	Posted - 2005.06.28 09:58:00 - [78] they are so many areas alts blow up. Scouting part.You dont need to risk a main character you send your alt.Sounds unimportant but it really destroys a lot. Corp thieving,insulting etc. and much more, doesnt come to my mind atm but once been thinking about it and came to conclusion alts are really evil . Stars, stars like dust, all around me....
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2005.06.28 10:11:00 - [79] I would like to see alts leave the game. If only because it would force players to interact, i.e. you cannot be the pirate in low sec one day then give your goods to your alt with a good security rating to go sell or buy you stuff. You would have to deal with some other players. As it is now, everyone does everything for themselves so why bother dealing with others. I think it hurts the game. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Malken	Posted - 2005.06.28 11:36:00 - [80] every account in this game already have a specific number. just have every post on these forums have a corresponding number identifying the account # wich the character is from. then you can have your alt and the others can have their accountability, if they connect the dots that is. Quote: 2005.05.13 06:58:00 For your termination of Pazuzzu we have paid you the bounty that was set to his head: 207,258,235 ISK
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.06.28 11:38:00 - [81] dont allow alts to post on this forum simple 1 main name for each poster. Apart from that leave alts in the game they serve a useful purpose.
Dahins alt	Posted - 2005.06.28 11:57:00 - [82] so if I vote "yes", is there any chance that I'll stop killing over and over the same DDC/CLS alts in Y-MPL? Truly, there was a point when 95% of the new entries in local were alts.
Sweetpain	Posted - 2005.06.28 12:21:00 - [83] Originally by: ollobrains dont allow alts to post on this forum simple 1 main name for each poster. Apart from that leave alts in the game they serve a useful purpose. I use only one character on the boards every single time i do post here, but i do not use the character i play in eve with the most. Does this make this toon my alt or my main? Posting on the boards reflect your person not your character unless you are posting in the roleplaying section of the forum. if you violate the rules of the board it do not matter if the post where made by your main alt or alt 2, just as it does not matter if the in game violation where doen by your mian alt ot alt 2, the result is action taken against your account. The only reason people are upset over postings on the boards using alts is that it limit their possibility to reteliate to their personal opinions against the characters they have in the gamne. And the people that get upset over this should be grateful they posted with thier alts since taking actions in game against someone because you did not agree to them on the boards is considered harrasement, stalking or mategaming as you in game use information your in game character would not have. so instead getting upset that i posted this post using my main forum poster and not my main playing character, you should be gratefull cause if you replyed in any way to one of my in game characters it could be considered harrasement, and in that i saved you from the risk of losing your account. this is my personal opinions as account owner why does it matter what signature i used on the post? does my opinions get less value because i used an little active toon in game to do it with? keep asking devs over and over and over to remove alts having posting rights and the result might very well be that they remove the boards instead or moderate them heavily instead. Treat people with respect and respect their opinions as accoutn owners cause that is what they are, not alt or main. each post on this board comes from an account that is paid for monthly just as yours, and in that both hold the same value for the makers of this game. If this board have flaws its up to the moderators to fix it, and any post the diminishing the value of a persons opinions based on what character the post where posted with should be deleted. Posting statements like "Go away alt, no go recycle" is a threat, but few moderators seam to think of it like that. that very statement can be drawn out as someone asking the account owner to leave as they opinions hold no value on the topic discussed. So next time someone post "Go away alt, now go recylce" hopefully the statement will be acted upon as the harrasement it really are. Account owner of EVE.
Lady Amira	Posted - 2005.06.28 12:22:00 - [84] Do you know what? I really dont think removal of alts would clear up any of the stupidity we see on the forums. Forums all over the net have huge numbers of idiots posting all sorts of trolling and other useless posts. Is anyone seriously suggesting they would war dec someone for posts they didnt like on the forum "if only they knew who to attack" You may find one or two forum flame wars would spill over into the game but I'm guessing these would be an insignificant minority. People like to talk up what they would do if it wasn't an alt but TBH talk is very cheap especially on forums on the net. Accountabilty in game?? Lemme see...... Are you really telling me the game would be better without the likes of Zeepo and Tenaj? No risk in game = boring. They add risk to empire mining and the market / escrow / real estate trading. Piracy again an important part of the game IMHO I see no reason why a pirate cant have an alt in empire trading to pay for the pirates activities?? You may not want to trade with an alt of a pirate if you knew but I can assure you hundreds of players will so your boycott will acheive nothing. I refine for my main because when we were in empire he worked for the caldari navy and thus has a truely awful standing with Guristas pirates. Rather than lose 70% of the refine I do the refining in 0.0 (venal region for those who care.) Oh and BTW my main is MrMuttley. I only posted with this alt cos shes better looking
Thyro	Posted - 2005.06.28 12:28:00 - [85] Originally by: McBane Ok, prolly a bit of a touchy one this, but IÆm interested to know the general opinion on this subject. IÆm against Alts in Eve and think they should be removed û despite using them myself û because I think they take away from the game more than they bring to it. Without going into detail, the following are the key general reasons why I think Alts should be removedà They remove character accountability. They provide a way for a character to circumvent in game rules and mechanisms. They remove risk from a character. Basically, I view Alts as one big Eve exploit. As far as I am aware the only reason CCP made Alts part of Eve was for the purpose of corp espionage. While this is a valid use I think that there could be many other ways of introducing corp espionage without introducing all the problems Alts bring to Eve. Before voting, please assume that If Alts were removed, CCP would provide some form of compensation to those whom have highly skilled Alts û for example, transferring them to a new account with 1 month free per 1mil SP. I am also aware of issues such as trial and second accounts, but these issues are far from the level of Alts as there is already restrictions / money involved which reduce the extent of the Alt like uses for them. So, remove Alts from Eve? Yay or Nay? 1st of all define what is an ALT 2nd which from the 3 chars is not an ALT
Sweetpain	Posted - 2005.06.28 12:50:00 - [86] Edited by: Sweetpain on 28/06/2005 12:50:54 Originally by: Lady Amira Do you know what? I really dont think removal of alts would clear up any of the stupidity we see on the forums. Forums all over the net have huge numbers of idiots posting all sorts of trolling and other useless posts. Is anyone seriously suggesting they would war dec someone for posts they didnt like on the forum "if only they knew who to attack" You may find one or two forum flame wars would spill over into the game but I'm guessing these would be an insignificant minority. People like to talk up what they would do if it wasn't an alt but TBH talk is very cheap especially on forums on the net. Accountabilty in game?? Lemme see...... Are you really telling me the game would be better without the likes of Zeepo and Tenaj? No risk in game = boring. They add risk to empire mining and the market / escrow / real estate trading. Piracy again an important part of the game IMHO I see no reason why a pirate cant have an alt in empire trading to pay for the pirates activities?? You may not want to trade with an alt of a pirate if you knew but I can assure you hundreds of players will so your boycott will acheive nothing. I refine for my main because when we were in empire he worked for the caldari navy and thus has a truely awful standing with Guristas pirates. Rather than lose 70% of the refine I do the refining in 0.0 (venal region for those who care.) Oh and BTW my main is MrMuttley. I only posted with this alt cos shes better looking rules are allways made to prevent the exstremes, without them the rules would be unessesary. If ONE person declare war on your main based on your post on the boards rules have to be made, actions have to be taken to prevent it. Curcumstances also come in to play, call one person an idiot face to face in private and its a statement, do it surounded by people in public and its an criminal act, especially if that persons public reputation is important to them. Board are a public place. ¿ game better without the likes of Zeepo and Tenjai, no. But the game would be a better place if the game recognized the actions of them for what it is, if stealing was an criminal activity it would provide the thieves with some excitement rather then have them fly around playing gouvernment cleaning crew protected by ConCord, but i do fear characters like Tenjai and Zeepo would find new professsions rather fast, but thats just speculation from my side, maybe they would not :)
Dufas	Posted - 2005.06.28 12:54:00 - [87] no your an idiot plz end yourself...have a nice day
Knukalz	Posted - 2005.06.28 17:57:00 - [88] Originally by: Dufas no your an idiot plz end yourself...have a nice day why do all forums seem to attract people like this?
Khargos	Posted - 2005.06.28 18:07:00 - [89] Originally by: Knukalz Originally by: Dufas no your an idiot plz end yourself...have a nice day why do all forums seem to attract people like this? Its really because of the pretentious europeans. and the redneck kill-um-all US players.
NanoRunner	Posted - 2005.06.29 00:03:00 - [90] "As several posters have mentioned, Alts have legitimate uses, enabling players to try out aspects of the game that they are unwilling or unable to experience with their mains. Also, now that Alts have been ingame for so long, and many players have Alt characters with hefty skillpoint totals, it would be pretty hard to take away Alts witout a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. " I have yet to see a truly legitmate use of an alt. Feel free to detail the many uses you know of. Remeber you can only train 1 character at a time so anything you train on the alt could have been trained on your main anyways. Wait I know your gonna say well my mining alt has stats that favor leaning mining skills, YeS but any time gained by those stats would be easily offset by the time you have invested in learning skills on your main so they do not save you any real time. Not even sure why you think creating a mining alt is legitamite anyways, since your exploiting game mechanic to get the best of both worlds which CLEARLY wasnt intended thus the reason why each race has different stats, yet they ALL can train EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME. Dont get into the convinence either of logging a empire space miner cause you dont want the hassle of making 25 jumps to go there with your main to mine because ding ding ding again that is just an exploit agian of alts that really wasnt intended THUS the point of not being able to instantly jump to any point in the game in the first place. So again feel free to list them all out but be sure to carefully screen your legit uses of alts to ensure none of them serve to exploit or work around a game design element to make things easier for you, that was clearly not supposed to be that way like the examples i listed, where the dev's would have just let all characters do that if they intended 1 player to be able to do all of that. Again remeber the concept is that 1 person is a character not the combined efforts of 3 characters = 1 person. Fire away :)
NanoRunner	Posted - 2005.06.29 00:06:00 - [91] Like I said alts wont get removed BUT it seems fair to me that sec rating is shared for an entire account IE if make an alt to pk and grief the sec rating will be the same for any character on my account :) and all characters should have a "family" name so you know if a guy is just a jerk that he is the same jerk when he logs onto an alt. Nothing you can do about multi account users, but the more done to limit this the better.
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2005.06.29 08:36:00 - [92] Originally by: ollobrains dont allow alts to post on this forum simple 1 main name for each poster. Apart from that leave alts in the game they serve a useful purpose. "usefull" -> scouting, refining, checking camped stations, going through chokepoints, hauling and so on for yourself you mean I guess? ahem that's exactly why I think they "should" be removed.... They're not supposed to be "usefull", but to allow us to do some testings with the character creation and to have a little fun with another race when we have used our 'real' character for years. Anything else contributes to ruin EVE. OK that's just my personnal opinion, but like everyone here I'm pretty sure I'm right Using alts as "usefull" muppets is slavery, nothing less, and should be condamned by Concord for the dignity and freedom of humankind.

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