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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 11:58:00 -
[1]
Hope everyone is able to connect to eve now.
Now that I am able to I have two questions.
Will CCP be making plans so when this happens again there is something that can be done within a few hours to remedy the problem?
Compenstaion for the game play and time lost, may have not been CCP's problem. But you deliver a product if you cannot deliver you owe me a refund just like RL I dont care if your supplier was asleep at the wheel all weekend not my issue :) make it right on the basis of good customer service.
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Hella May
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:01:00 -
[2]
In CCPS charges they discount for the one hour a day down time they provide. Since it isnt always 1 hour downtime but much less you actually owe them money....
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:04:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Hella May
In CCPS charges they discount for the one hour a day down time they provide. Since it isnt always 1 hour downtime but much less you actually owe them money....
Erm.. I think hes talking about the people from Australia or the US and such that haven't been able to connect to Eve for 3 days now, or maybe even longer.
I actually kind of agree with him, but its going to be a bit hard to police really.
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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:08:00 -
[4]
Yep I think the major drop was Saturday when a bunch of players were not able to connect. For some its been even longer. :(
Funny how it gets fixed on Monday
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DeODokktor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hella May
In CCPS charges they discount for the one hour a day down time they provide. Since it isnt always 1 hour downtime but much less you actually owe them money....
Pass some of that **** over here..
Some GOOD SMOKIN..
Honestly tho.. it depends on where this fault was..
Even if it wasnt in their own internal network then they could still get compensation for a bad link. If they get compensation for it then yes they should probably pass compensation back to the customer.
If the bad link was 4 hops out from their provider & Their network then they shouldnt entertain reinbursements.
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Julius Hawk
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:27:00 -
[6]
CCP has been more than happy to compensate in the past. Get me 2 new ships after the Exodus patch came out.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:34:00 -
[7]
I was connected most of the weekend without issue.
I think they are having local ISP or router problems which is hardly CCPs fault. Ask your ISP for compensation instead.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
CagedRage
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:41:00 -
[8]
No i live in Canada and had the same problem . I couldnt log into eve since around 7:00 gmt saturday until monday after down time.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:42:00 -
[9]
Weird. .. never had a problem. Mined jaspet all weekend.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Derisor
I was connected most of the weekend without issue.
I think they are having local ISP or router problems which is hardly CCPs fault. Ask your ISP for compensation instead.
Dont think so mate was it was all over the world. If you see other threads here CCP asking for trace routes and the connection timed out in Iceland, from all of the traces I have seen posted from different players from every where.
Compenstaion would be nice if not oh well. But CCP needs to have a plan in place when their provider drops the ball players cannot play you have ****ed off customers, and new accounts cannot sign up lost revenue for CCP.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:48:00 -
[11]
Anyone who gets cheesed off so much over one weekend of downtime really needs to put things in perspective a bit better.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Angela Charlsworthy
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Angela Charlsworthy on 27/06/2005 12:50:14
At least it gave you a chance to see your family again, you remember them don't you 
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:53:00 -
[13]
Correct me if i am wrong but the cause for the peeps being unable to connect was routing problems of some backbones or something. CCP has nothing to do with them. Can't blame them for any net routing problemthat occurs.
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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Derisor
Anyone who gets cheesed off so much over one weekend of downtime really needs to put things in perspective a bit better.
Well if you missed a weekend I think you would see things different light. Troll move along and go mine some jaspet
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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Correct me if i am wrong but the cause for the peeps being unable to connect was routing problems of some backbones or something. CCP has nothing to do with them. Can't blame them for any net routing problemthat occurs.
But I can blame them for.
One - Having a crap provider who cannot fix things on the weekend
Two - Not having a back up plan.
Its lost revenue for CCP also.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BARF
Originally by: MOS DEF
Correct me if i am wrong but the cause for the peeps being unable to connect was routing problems of some backbones or something. CCP has nothing to do with them. Can't blame them for any net routing problemthat occurs.
But I can blame them for.
One - Having a crap provider who cannot fix things on the weekend
Two - Not having a back up plan.
Its lost revenue for CCP also.
How do you know it was their provider? The Internet is one giant game of pass the parcel. Think of a road network. If you can't get to my shop because of a blocked junction thirty miles away it's not my fault.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:12:00 -
[17]
I remember now why I never come to the forums 
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Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BARF
I remember now why I never come to the forums
And this whole thread is why I try not to read General...
-------------------------
Grand Agitator
Currently homeless, mail or convo if interested
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Death Merchant
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:18:00 -
[19]
To Whomever caused this weekends outage (for some of us):
Thanks to you I was able to,
1) Mow the lawn
2) Move the living room furniture around for my wife....twice
3) Open my new Dremel Power Tool setup that I got for christmas
4) Take the dog to pet groomer,
5) Buy a new chair mat, since the one Ive been using seems to have holes worn it from playing eve.
6) Do some nice system maintenance on my computer, should run eve much better next time I play it.
7-100) All the other things that I put off to play eve.
I think maybe there should be quarterly weekend failures. My wife and my dog appreciate what youve done.
Sincerly,
Death Merchant
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:18:00 -
[20]
im not to bothered as i did't lose any skill time.
But frankly the ones saying it's not ccp's fault so should not compinsate are probably not in the group of players that suffered.
They pay ccp to provide eve, and to pay for server maintinance.
They then pay the provider not us.
And to that end CCP is responsible to see that the prouct they are paid to pay for works and any 1 that is involved their end has it working.
So yes CCP as the ones we pay are the only reasonable ones to blame/seek compensation from.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BARF
Will CCP be making plans so when this happens again there is something that can be done within a few hours to remedy the problem?
From what I hear, the problem was that 3 major backbone routers went down over the weekend. These are certainly not owned by CCP, and may not even be owned by their ISP. That's the downside with the internet, so many people own so many different bits and supply different people under different contracts, that chasing down just who should be doing what can take time, and a gang of high-powered lawyers. Short of CCP taking over the entire backbone infrastructure of the net, there's very little they can do.
Originally by: BARF
Compenstaion for the game play and time lost, may have not been CCP's problem. But you deliver a product if you cannot deliver you owe me a refund just like RL I dont care if your supplier was asleep at the wheel all weekend not my issue :) make it right on the basis of good customer service.
Customer service and goodwill issues aside, the structure of the internet makes this whole thing a very grey area. CCP are responsible for keeping their servers online, but at the same time you are responsible for providing yourself with an internet connection to the eve server. Now, if it's the eve server's connection that goes down, it's obviously CCP's fault. If it's your connection to your ISP, it's your responsibility. But what happens if it's some random link in the middle? Where do you draw the line? As far as they're concerned, their server is online and connected. As far as you're concerned, you're online and connected. In that situation, neither of you are to blame, it's the muppet in the middle with the broken router. The best you can do is shout very loudly at the owner of said router (which CCP have undoubtably been doing) until they fix it.
Originally by: fairimear
But frankly the ones saying it's not ccp's fault so should not compinsate are probably not in the group of players that suffered.
They pay ccp to provide eve, and to pay for server maintinance.
They then pay the provider not us.
And to that end CCP is responsible to see that the prouct they are paid to pay for works and any 1 that is involved their end has it working
But they also agreed to be responsible for providing their own internet connection to access eve. At what point in the chain does responsibility pass from CCP to the user? You wouldn't expect CCP to compensate you and be responsible for it if your ISP went down, you'd moan at your ISP. But what if the fault is one hop on from your ISP? As far as you're concerned you're connected to the internet, but can't access eve. Should CCP take responsibility at that point, when really it's your ISP's provider that's messed up, and it's probably 5+ hops away from anything CCP can touch. Maybe we should run a traceroute, and split the run in half, whoever's nearest the fault takes responsibility?
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:47:00 -
[22]
This is why I never wanted to get into any kind of network administration. When things are working great, your department's invisible. But if one little thing goes wrong for even the shortest time, you're head's on the chopping block and some tubby guy starts sharpening his axe.
Look, this is an online game. CCP does not own the internet, so they can't be held responsible for connectivity issues stemming from a user's ISP or their shoddy wireless LAN setups. However, they're really great for handling their stuff at their end.
When have you ever heard of any network connection problem that didn't get investigated afterwards? CCP is also very good at being forthcoming with information about network problems, and their aftermath reporting has never been anything like 'Dunno why that happened! Bye!' And yes, they've been more willing to give free playtime to people when patches go bad than any other developer out there, and not because of the fracking whiners on the forums.
So can we please put an end to the chicken little threads? Pretty please?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
SPIONKOP
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Posted - 2005.06.27 14:51:00 -
[23]
I had some ISP problems a few weeks ago, sounds similar to whats went on this weekend.
I do not expect CCP to refund the time i lost, its not their fault.
However it maybe a wise move for CCP to put in some form of alternate route so at least folks can train skills and watch the forums for updates. As I am no network engineer I am not even sure that they could do anything in this case, maybe someone from CCP could post a dev blog?
By the way, what did go wrong?
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GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2005.06.27 15:16:00 -
[24]
I wish you morons would get it in your head that CCP owes you fk all, it was a problem beyond their control.
If you're going to a concert having bought the tickets beforehand and on the way realise that the bridge over the river has been washed away and the next one is too far away so you'll miss the concert, do you really think the concert promoter should refund you? Perhaps the bridge owner, afterall freak weather conditions are their fault aren't they, they should have built 4 backup bridges in case of the freak chance that the main one fails!
F***ing leeches like you BARF make me sick. Always trying to get something for nothing when you're not entitles to it. You're the kind of person who sues a charity organisation for millions because you slipped on the wet pavement outside their shop. Who cares if 1,000s of needy people lose out as long as you're good, eh?
Blowing s**t up since May 2003
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.06.27 15:24:00 -
[25]
We're still investigating what cause this. But to describe what we have done to try to address this, here goes (oh, and no I am by far a network admin, so bear with me  )
Last Thursday we put up a proper multi-homing setup. This means we not only have standard redundancy where you have two fibers to the same provider, but also redundancy between providers - so we also have a connection to multiple providers now working in paralell (as opposed to having a "standby" fiber link to another one).
Last Saturday, some crazy **** starts to happen to routes for about 1000 of our customers distributed all over the world. There was no localized pattern, people from Canada as well as Australia were having problems connecting. Still, it was not the whole countries that went out either, only select providers, so this pointed toward routing for sure.
Anyways, we try to locate failures in close by providers network, which peer (that's means "connect to each other") with either of our backbone providers to try to trace back to some points which could be causing this. But didn't find anything conclusive (as pointed out earlier, other cores went out and can certainly have been the cause, but still not conclusively so)
What we did today was to manipulate our end of the setup, talking to our backbone providers and changing a bit BGP setups in hopes that it would lead to the people which had such bad routes to use atlernative routes!
Seems to have worked for the most parts, we will try a couple of other tricks tomorrow with our providers but so far, those that had problems seem to be able to connect again.
We still have our special IP address (157.157.139.10) open and answering ICMP pings so if you still have problems, please try to do a traceroute to that destination and paste it here.
We are doing everything we can to fix this from our side, but as pointed out here earlier, it's not just some buttons we need to press, this is the internet, if it's outside our providers network, it's hell to get back into order 
However, to answer the initial poster, there is no structured compensation for events like this. We don't control the internet and the EULA clearly states that we are not responsible for any outages which might occur due it, we can't even see who had problems and who didn't because you didn't even reach our systems at all!
However, I can understand any loss any of you experienced due to this. I suggest you contact a GM, and if it's within reason I'm sure he will try to assist you as much as he can.
_____________________________
I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:26:00 -
[26]
OMG OVeur fix t3h intarweb u nub.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Oveur
We still have our special IP address (157.157.139.10) open and answering ICMP pings so if you still have problems, please try to do a traceroute to that destination and paste it here.
Heh, is that TomB's CS:Source machine?
"Six digit ping? What the frack?"
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:52:00 -
[28]
i dont care for being componsated for the 2 days i lost accoutn wise. but i would like to have my agent standings which i lost and the 2 days training time i lost restored some how ( just my luck that my skill finnished 1 hr after loosing connection)
_____
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 17:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: dantes inferno
i dont care for being componsated for the 2 days i lost accoutn wise. but i would like to have my agent standings which i lost and the 2 days training time i lost restored some how ( just my luck that my skill finnished 1 hr after loosing connection)
How the hell was your agent standing affected by two days of connection problems?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 17:52:00 -
[30]
if you use your head i could of been in a middle of an mission which came to an end during those 2 days which made me losse standings with the agent and faction.
_____
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: dantes inferno
if you use your head i could of been in a middle of an mission which came to an end during those 2 days which made me losse standings with the agent and faction.
Oh wow, your character is ruined.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
sidthesexist
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:17:00 -
[32]
i agree this wasnt ccps fault so compensation shouldnt be forth coming but one area where they were weak was comunication there seemed to be more info on eve-i than there was on the official forum 
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:18:00 -
[33]
no not at all...but its stil annoying and would take ccp or gms very little difficulty to reverse, i think after 2 days of not been able to play which ive paid for the least they can do is repair any dmg to characters no matter how minor. and im sure you would be complaining if you were one of the people affected.
_____
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: dantes inferno
no not at all...but its stil annoying and would take ccp or gms very little difficulty to reverse, i think after 2 days of not been able to play which ive paid for the least they can do is repair any dmg to characters no matter how minor. and im sure you would be complaining if you were one of the people affected.
I might petition it if say I lost a nicely fitted megathron to a connection issue that was CCP's fault. Certainly not about a small standings reduction which can be negated by doing a mission or two. So you lost a bit of standing -- do some missions and get it back (plus agent rewards to boot).
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:22:00 -
[35]
Draximus lol's at this thread
Clearly a faultthat CCP is not responsible for, CCP offer look at compensation on a 1 by 1 basis (which cost's them money and time)
People still Biach......
Well done CCP for how you have handled this, I bet SoE or WB would have raised the two fingered salute!
-------------------------------------------------
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:23:00 -
[36]
ive petitioned the loss of standings also the loss of 2 days training time which is what is realy annoying. and what concern is it of yours if i request my agent standings to be restored? tbh as u obviously wernt affected by this problem why are you bothering to respond to this thread? you wernt inconvinenced by this, and i am perfectly within my rights to request the standings to be restored. if ccp refuse thats their perogotive..its not for you to decide what i petition or not petition
_____
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: dantes inferno
ive petitioned the loss of standings also the loss of 2 days training time which is what is realy annoying. and what concern is it of yours if i request my agent standings to be restored? tbh as u obviously wernt affected by this problem why are you bothering to respond to this thread? you wernt inconvinenced by this, and i am perfectly within my rights to request the standings to be restored. if ccp refuse thats their perogotive..its not for you to decide what i petition or not petition
I was going to respond to this, but there's really no point. Have a nice life!
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:27:00 -
[38]
I think in all honestly CCP will sort that for you, it doesn;t sound unreasnable
I think Blinkie was more having a go at your
Waa waa waa , weres my compensation attitude
You may not have ment that, but thats how it came out
-------------------------------------------------
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:33:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Draximus Cane
I think in all honestly CCP will sort that for you, it doesn;t sound unreasnable
I think Blinkie was more having a go at your
Waa waa waa , weres my compensation attitude
You may not have ment that, but thats how it came out
I think you're right. :)
All that being said, CCP's usually pretty good at reimbursing for things that should be reimbursed. But as in life, the way you carry yourself dictates a lot about how people react. I imagine a belligerent(sp?) style of petition will not help you out.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:40:00 -
[40]
"belligerent"
i aint the foggiest what that means?
_____
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:41:00 -
[41]
Keep on topic.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
kieron
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:46:00 -
[42]
Play nicely, gentlemen. No need for exchanging flames. Just agree to disagree with each other. I don't want to lock the thread.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: dantes inferno
"belligerent"
i aint the foggiest what that means?
Think how people talk to others when drunk and angry.
That's "belligerent".
Basically, CCP cannot have a single plan that addresses the bajillion things that can go wrong with the internet. As each issue arises, they will address it as quickly as possible and try to create a failsafe to prevent it in the future, if possible. If possible. If possible. Get it?
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 18:58:00 -
[44]
Originally by: GlimmerMan
F***ing leeches like you BARF make me sick. Always trying to get something for nothing when you're not entitles to it. You're the kind of person who sues a charity organisation for millions because you slipped on the wet pavement outside their shop. Who cares if 1,000s of needy people lose out as long as you're good, eh?
Look perssonally 1 day 2 days no days sutis me fine. But in the real world if I tell a customer I cannot provide them a service beacuse one of my suppliers screwed up my cusotmer tells me to get bent and I am the one who has to make it right thats ccp's call if they want to do it or not.
You my friend need to stay on subject and keep the personal insults in the playground. Bet you were not affected by this eh? now stfu and go run to mommy beacuse somone to your place on the swing
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Toshihiro Nishikado
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Posted - 2005.06.27 19:09:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Toshihiro Nishikado on 27/06/2005 19:09:51
Originally by: BARF
But in the real world if I tell a customer I cannot provide them a service beacuse one of my suppliers screwed up my cusotmer tells me to get bent and I am the one who has to make it right thats ccp's call if they want to do it or not.
But in the real world if....
You ordered a ticket for a sports event, and then you car broke down, the road was closed, you girl freind god sick....
Do you ask the stadium to refund your tickets ?
...and how do you think they will respond....
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Domalais
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:00:00 -
[46]
This just in: CCP is creating an entire backup internet to prevent this from happening ever again. This new internet, named EVENet, will be at least 1000millionbajillion times faster than the previous internet, totally eliminating connection lag. In addition, they are creating their own propriatary protocols for use on EVENet, which through dark evil magick and the sacrifice of 1000 amarrian citizens daily will entirely eliminate packet loss and dropped traffic. Whenever you establish a connection to the EVE server, a tamed EVENet lesser demon will personally escort your opening packets to their source, lighting ablaze any router and destroying the soul of any sysadmin who dares stand in their unholy path.
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GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:23:00 -
[47]
Originally by: BARF
Originally by: GlimmerMan
F***ing leeches like you BARF make me sick. Always trying to get something for nothing when you're not entitles to it. You're the kind of person who sues a charity organisation for millions because you slipped on the wet pavement outside their shop. Who cares if 1,000s of needy people lose out as long as you're good, eh?
Look perssonally 1 day 2 days no days sutis me fine. But in the real world if I tell a customer I cannot provide them a service beacuse one of my suppliers screwed up my cusotmer tells me to get bent and I am the one who has to make it right thats ccp's call if they want to do it or not.
You my friend need to stay on subject and keep the personal insults in the playground. Bet you were not affected by this eh? now stfu and go run to mommy beacuse somone to your place on the swing
Did my analogy not make it clear for your tiny little mind? Lets try again. You not getting to a concert because a bridge is out preventing you getting there is not the fault of the concert promoter and rightly they owe you nothing. If you can't log in to EVE becasue of an internet infrastructure issue it is tough luck and CCP owes you nothing as it is clearly beyond their control.
Your analogy is stupid, no part of the chain of delivery owned by or delivered on behalf of CCP was affected. By your totally flawed argument if your CPU failed and you couldn't play for a week until you got a replacement, CCP would have to compensate you because you couldn't play depite it not being their fault?
"mommy" - Ah this explains it - American, you're from the land that common sense forgot. The land where burglars can sue property owners for falling through a skylight window and injuring themselves while trying to rob the place. No wonder you have a skewed sense of reality!
Blowing s**t up since May 2003
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:35:00 -
[48]
Edited by: dantes inferno on 27/06/2005 20:36:12
Quote:
CCP would have to compensate you because you couldn't play depite it not being their fault?
i 100% agree ccp shouldnt have to compensate 1 penny as it wernt their fault. im asking as a courtesy considering we lost connection for 2 days due to circumstances beyond our control that any damage done to our characters due to this is repaird. it dosent harm me to ask, it wouldnt harm you if it happend. and if it is to much of an inconvinecne/not possible for ccp they can and would say no, in that case fair enough. but it dosent harm any one to ask considering it is alrady connected to the open lost connection petition.
p.s. thanks to corvus for explaining what belligerent meant i had not come across the word before.
_____
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:36:00 -
[49]
This thread is now completely useless.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Santiago Cortes
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Posted - 2005.06.27 20:41:00 -
[50]
We've tried asking nicely twice, let's not make it a third time.
{The Forum Rules} | {Email Us!} |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.06.27 21:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Toshihiro Nishikado
Edited by: Toshihiro Nishikado on 27/06/2005 19:09:51
Originally by: BARF
But in the real world if I tell a customer I cannot provide them a service beacuse one of my suppliers screwed up my cusotmer tells me to get bent and I am the one who has to make it right thats ccp's call if they want to do it or not.
But in the real world if....
You ordered a ticket for a sports event, and then you car broke down, the road was closed, you girl freind god sick....
Do you ask the stadium to refund your tickets ?
...and how do you think they will respond....
And the problem with the internet is that it fits neither of those scenarios.
If EVE is down, then whatever occurred to cause it to go down is irrelevant. Whether it's CCP's fault or not, CCP owe me my subscription money, because they're contracted to provide a service; just as Tesco selling me faulty goods because their suppliers loused up, doesn't let Tesco off the hook.
If my ISP is down and I can't get on to the net, CCP are in no way responsible, and wouldn't have to pay me a bent farthing; just as, if I can't make the concert because my car died, that's my own bad luck.
But neither event happened. People were connected to the net, and EVE was up and running. The problem's somewhere in between; and, as was said earlier, the bits in between can't even be correctly identified half the time, let alone can we work out who owns them and whose fault it was.
If you wait seven years, you might be able to sue Henry Van Statten. Provided you work out which place beginning with "S" he was dumped in
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.06.27 22:42:00 -
[52]
Its NOT CCP's problem.
Quit whining. It's like .5 of a dollar.
In the time you have spent whining you could have picked up that amount of change from the pavement if you had applied yourself.
You have a right to complain, I also have a right to ridicule you for being so petty.
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.06.27 22:46:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Tenashi on 27/06/2005 22:46:06
internet broke down isn`t ccp`s fault, if they add standing to u then they better add standing to every one...
edit, can`t it just be locked or something?
Everlasting Vendetta - EVE Search |
Antic
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Posted - 2005.06.27 23:17:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Oveur
We still have our special IP address (157.157.139.10) open and answering ICMP pings so if you still have problems, please try to do a traceroute to that destination and paste it here.
as far as i have heard, most people who cant access the came cant access the eve-online webpage either. Thus they wouldnt be able to paste their trace log here.
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Archilies
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Posted - 2005.06.28 04:01:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Archilies on 28/06/2005 04:01:54
CCP, i just won the lottery, if u ever get bored of ppl, gimme a shout and ill finance u forget bout all the others.
ps, if u have a dreadnought u can come
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.06.29 08:36:00 -
[56]
It doesn't appear to be a problem at CCP's end, I think it's a problem with the interweb thingy.
ex P-TMC
If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2005.06.29 09:33:00 -
[57]
Originally by: BARF
Compenstaion for the game play and time lost, may have not been CCP's problem. But you deliver a product if you cannot deliver you owe me a refund just like RL I dont care if your supplier was asleep at the wheel all weekend not my issue :) make it right on the basis of good customer service.
In this sence, Eve is like Pizza. CCP doesn't deliver, they just keep the store open so you can enter. You have to go to them and pick it up. If you cannot get to them, they are not responsible.
If it was soething CCP did specifically, like a buggy patch then I'd agree with you.
And if you realize that it is not CCP's fault, why do you expect them to compensate you? Do you sue god when it rains, and ruins your plans?
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Darius Shakor
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Posted - 2005.06.29 09:57:00 -
[58]
Quote:
If EVE is down, then whatever occurred to cause it to go down is irrelevant. Whether it's CCP's fault or not, CCP owe me my subscription money, because they're contracted to provide a service; just as Tesco selling me faulty goods because their suppliers loused up, doesn't let Tesco off the hook.
My got thats the lamest.... ok, listen to someone who has worked several years in retail customer service.
First of all, CCP owes you nothing for several reasons.
-They do not control the internet routers between their servers and your house
-They do not have contract with the people who do hence no responsibility to their running standards
-There is no way of them knowing who was unable to connect and who wasnt. Maps of the internet with blackedout or red-flashing areas that indicate problems only exist in movies and cartoons, not on the wall of CCP Central Command and Internet Preservation Centre (CCIP for short I think they would call it if it actually existed, but it doesn't)
-I could simply come here now and say to them 'I could not connect, I want some money back for my downtime! Even though I could anyway. They refund you and they leave the door open for stupidity like that. Buess you couldn't think about that though could you.
And as for you Tesco example, man thats just wrong on so many levels. Do you even know how customer service in retail actually works? Sit down and let me explain it to you simply.
-Retailer buys from the manufacuter, so they now own the goods, not the makers of the goods.
-Customer buys it and takes it home, to find it doesn't work out of the box.
-Customer takes it back, retailer might test it if they need to.
-Retailer refunds customer, customer doesn't tear shop appart.
(Now, thats as far as you have seen the process. That doesn't mean thats the end of the process. Thats like saying I can't see past the horizon at Blackpool beach, so the world must end there.)
-Here is what happens next, retailer slaps a returns label on it with a unique code and fills out any paperwork needed for the manufacturer incuding purcase details from the customer, AND from their purchase of the goods from the manufacturer originally.
-Retailer sends it back on a truck to the manufacturer, they test it again.
-Manufacturer then refunds the retailer too since they have a contract with the retailer to do so. So they do not lose any money.
Where is the similarity with this situation and CCP? Please tell me because I would love to know. Who does CCP have a contract with to allow them to refund you? Tesco will refund you because the company gets it money back from the manufacturer who is ultimately accountable for the faults. Do you think Tesco would be one of the largest and wealthiest shopping chains in the world if they handed out free money on refunds with no return?
A router on the internet belonging to some telecom company fails near the server that black out most of the traffic to their server. S### happens, get over it, not CCP's fault, and not their position to issue refunds.
I do agree that they should do what little they can to fix it. That usually, in this case, invilves finding where the faulty router is, be it Iceland or Afganistan, and phoning the owner up to see if they can fix it. But thats all. The owner can tell them to go shove it if they want to and that will not be CCP's fault. And they cannot know where it is since they don't have that map I mentioned a moment ago with the blinking red lights. That means that is people could not be arsed to submit IP traces like requested >HERE< they cannot know who to phone in the big wide world.
Now give it a rest people, thats as real as it gets!
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Analysis[Ceasefire]....Complete - 'Term given to the act of firing, causing the ceasation of the life it is directed at |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.06.29 10:11:00 -
[59]
Quote:
If EVE is down, then whatever occurred to cause it to go down is irrelevant. Whether it's CCP's fault or not, CCP owe me my subscription money, because they're contracted to provide a service; just as Tesco selling me faulty goods because their suppliers loused up, doesn't let Tesco off the hook.
...
Originally by: "EULA º12"
NO WARRANTIES
The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided ôAS IS,ö with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
1. read
2. think
3. talk
Mixing that up will always end up with yourself looking like an idiot.
Mai's Idealog |
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