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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2195
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Posted - 2013.01.17 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:I*snip* Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. *snip*
Right. Well what some of us are saying is that CCP has been talking about giving modular POS's attenuation since 2006. You said they'd get attention this year, last year. Now we find out you don't have any kind of plans at all? What I for one would like to know isn't what CCP is NOT saying... I want to know what you ARE going to do about modular POS's.
The modular POS concept has been "going forward" on broad general themes that never materialize for over six years. We know it's a big project. CCP said that six years ago. We know you might not be able to drop the whole thing on us at once. You said that six years ago. What might be helpful is if CCP DID (as opposed to 'said') something that I can't find in a thread or a blog from 2006.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2197
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Posted - 2013.01.17 18:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Modular POS Thread from 2006
Another of many Modular POS threads in 2008 w/ more Dev response, and here's the useless CSM making it an issue in the same year.
Anyone remember this thread from 2011? It's on the old forums... it's interesting to go up a level there and see all of the topics they got player feedback on.
...and to top it all off: Keynote from Fanfest 2012 that talks about POS's (linked at 46 min).
"POS's... we're gonna re-do POS's." ~CCP
...so DO IT. 
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2208
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Posted - 2013.01.17 22:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adding a few notes about why POS numbers might look like they do and why it's a bad idea to judge based on that:
1) POS's are a corp level asset. ...so I can't just set up a POS of my own accord if I'm in another corp. By design, there will be far fewer people interfacing with POS's in the logs... however everyone in the corp benefits in some way from a corp POS.
2) POS's are a pain in the a** to set up and maintain. Now, the IDEA of a POS is awesome! I still remember first going into nullsec being guided by the hand by a snigg vet and led to their little pirate gate camper POS waypoint. "This is a safe-safe spot." bookmark it." So we have our own secret base in a system with no stations?! That's awesome! Now that I know how to set them up, I know I don't want to bother with it. Too much hassle and too much risk of being killed by my own creation. This turns off a lot of would-be POS owners.
3) The differences between "my" POS and "A" POS are negligible.
4) Need sov to anchor.
There are a lot of would-be POS owners out there that haven't set one up simply because of the above issues. Fix even a few things and you'll see the number of POS owners rise. Everyone wants their own station... they just don't want a busted up buggy time-sink. See "small holding".
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2208
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Posted - 2013.01.17 23:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
A POS should be able to grow up to be an outpost.
~ 'nother side note.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2210
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Posted - 2013.01.17 23:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Taawuz wrote:Fix pos's or it's Shoot Jita Monument CTA's!
*torches and pitchforks*
In a more coherent sense, I think the reason why Crucible, Inferno and Retribution were that great was because they were fixing **** that was broke and I honestly do not think I actually like the new ccp development roadmap. Do you know what the roadmap is? Because I haven't a clue.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2210
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Posted - 2013.01.18 00:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't think that CCP disagrees that POS's need to be redone. From what I've read it seems to be just a couple of things:
1) CCP Doesn't think enough players care. You guys are doing a good job of correcting that here.
2) Will modular POSs bring more NEW players into the game? That's a little harder to say... let's be honest: most players don't even think about setting up a station in their first couple of months. I sure didn't come to EvE for the stations. Stations are a little more complex and require a lot of game knowledge to understand all of their functions... and to set one up you need to read a friggin' phonebook written in Greek. That's a hard sell to a newcomer especially. The real crux of this thread is whether POS's are going to bring in fresh meat or coming out with panda avatars or something will do better.
...that's the last I'll say on this. It's *popcorn* time for me.
GL o7
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2227
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Posted - 2013.01.19 00:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:You have GOT to be kidding me. POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is? What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix? "Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es. You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing. Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2228
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Posted - 2013.01.19 00:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Gogela wrote:Arronicus wrote:You have GOT to be kidding me. POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is? What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix? "Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es. You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing. Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever. The POS rebalance has been many years overdue, and we were actually promised it a year ago, so development into limited engagements, while perhaps not drawing exclusively away from POS revamping, did directly draw away from the resource pool that we were informed what, last december (2011) was going to go towards the pos revamp. Actually they've been taking about the need for a POS re-write since 2006. Don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of wanting the POS's to get fixed. I'm just saying if the foundation of an argument is shaky the probability of winning decreases. Here's a list of some links to devs talking about modular POS's going back to 2006.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2248
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Posted - 2013.01.22 05:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Seagull wrote:Hey all Thank you for your participation in this discussion. First, let me spell out what we agree on in CCP:
- The current starbase system has a number of usability problems and design issues that cause pain for pretty much anyone who uses a starbase.
- People use starbases for a number of different purposes in the game, and many of the areas of the game where they form a key part, are ones we haven't iterated on in a long time - or the starbases are so fundamental to a type of gameplay, that the shortcomings of the existing system are felt daily.
- Lots more people are affected by starbases and starbase-related mechanics in the game, than just the people that manage them - and there are many cases where they are managed and used by "Enablers" and "Instigators" who use the capabilities of the starbase in the schemes of a larger group.
- Structures that players create, own, build and do stuff with is a very cool thing. We can see tons of potential in how a re-vamped system could both fix the stuff that's broken about the existing system, and open up for all kinds of exciting new things for both new and old players to do in EVE.
For all of these reasons, we wanted to create a new and better system, and started work to design and prototype an approach dubbed "modular POS:es" last release - the system you have heard about in various places. The result was design work and a prototype, where the prototype and art requirements were centered on stuff that was very cool for the person creating the starbase. This was not the entire ambition of the design, but it was where the prototype and art requirements were focused. Because there were too many open questions around the functionality outside the features for starbase creation, we could not responsibly green light the design to go into production for the summer expansion. When we talk about "the POS system" only affecting a "small portion of the community", we are referring to the focus of the prototype, not to the current starbase system or the concept of the full "modular POS system" - but this does not come across well in the CSM Summit minutes. The potential for player created and owned structures in EVE is great. But just like both me and CCP Unifex talked about in our recent devblogs, and in the summit sessions, we need to work out how we can realize each piece of that, using our new processes. One expansion worth of work won't be able to address all the problems with the current system, while also giving us all the new possibilities. While we weren't ready to commit to implementing the prototype we have at the moment, we are not abandoning either starbases or their potential. You will see the first results of our new way of planning expansions towards the end of February, and you can follow the process through the CSM participation and also some updates I'll be giving. I can't and won't promise that specific features or fixes will be part of the summer expansion until we have gone through our pre-production phase. Thanks for reading this, and for engaging in this discussion. Sounds like "same ****, different day" to me. You've been "working out what needs to be done" since 2006. While I appreciate your frankness, I can't say I'm real impressed w/ what you've achieved (edit: with regards to POSs) (ie. seemingly nothing). Poor show.
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