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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. You mean the metric they do reveal with some consistency?
Not Politically Correct wrote:I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes. PLEXes make no difference in that count (and counting the money would be inaccurate anyway since there is no single fix cost for an account).
Mrk Paradox wrote:They identify a connection, which the server can record. That, unlike ips, are not dynamic. GǪbut which doesn't tell you anything since, again, it's not unique or tied to a single person in any way. If you're saying that you want the client to start mapping its close-by network, I'm sure there is a nice collection of privacy laws that would classify EVE as illegal spyware at that pointGǪ Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1019
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:
but why does it matter?
there's over 50k on right now, and over 25k at the lowest/slowest time of day.
isn't that good enough?
You are confusing the # of players connected to the server with the total number of active (i.e. paid somehow) accounts.
players Gëá accounts
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
226
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. You mean the metric they do reveal with some consistency? Not Politically Correct wrote:I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes. PLEXes make no difference in that count (and counting the money would be inaccurate anyway since there is no single fix cost for an account). Mrk Paradox wrote:They identify a connection, which the server can record. That, unlike ips, are not dynamic. GǪbut which doesn't tell you anything since, again, it's not unique or tied to a single person in any way. If you're saying that you want the client to start mapping its close-by network, I'm sure there is a nice collection of privacy laws that would classify EVE as illegal spyware at that pointGǪ
Sure it does. If you came to my home and used my wifi, I'd know who you were. I wouldn't know your name per se, but I'd know who you were in relation to the conenction on my network. I'd also be able to keep a record of that and if you came over to my house again with a different device, I could track that as well.
We aren't talking about privacy laws here, we are talking about account connections. I would then be able to systematically disable or block, those mac addresses from using my network.
Sure you could start an anonymous alt account and log back in, but if it became related to a previously used account (I'm sure there are more distinguisable means to link accounts from users on ccp's servers) that one would get banned as well.
This isn't a matter of discussion anyways, because we are all apparently talking about business models and players versus ccp. I do not know how their servers are coded, but administratively, you are not anonymous. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
61
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. You mean the metric they do reveal with some consistency? Not Politically Correct wrote:I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes. PLEXes make no difference in that count (and counting the money would be inaccurate anyway since there is no single fix cost for an account). Mrk Paradox wrote:They identify a connection, which the server can record. That, unlike ips, are not dynamic. GǪbut which doesn't tell you anything since, again, it's not unique or tied to a single person in any way. If you're saying that you want the client to start mapping its close-by network, I'm sure there is a nice collection of privacy laws that would classify EVE as illegal spyware at that pointGǪ
Ok. Let me put it this way. Is there any way for US to find out how many active, non-trial, accounts there actually are? |
Nicor Syke'Nexen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:
but why does it matter?
there's over 50k on right now, and over 25k at the lowest/slowest time of day.
isn't that good enough?
You are confusing the # of players connected to the server with the total number of active (i.e. paid somehow) accounts. players Gëá accounts
no.
what i'm saying is:
there's still tons of people that play the game, so the number of active accounts is irrelevant to us, the common player.
when the max number of concurrent daily logins drops to the 40-45k range, then maybe it's time for concern.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3323
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:
when the max number of concurrent daily logins drops to the 40-45k range, then maybe it's time for concern.
Then you must have been concerned the past year. That's what it has been. Sigh. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
226
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. You mean the metric they do reveal with some consistency? Not Politically Correct wrote:I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes. PLEXes make no difference in that count (and counting the money would be inaccurate anyway since there is no single fix cost for an account). Mrk Paradox wrote:They identify a connection, which the server can record. That, unlike ips, are not dynamic. GǪbut which doesn't tell you anything since, again, it's not unique or tied to a single person in any way. If you're saying that you want the client to start mapping its close-by network, I'm sure there is a nice collection of privacy laws that would classify EVE as illegal spyware at that pointGǪ Ok. Let me put it this way. Is there any way for US to find out how many active, non-trial, accounts there actually are?
Not publicly I'm sure. Only accounts actively logged in. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:
Not publicly I'm sure. Only accounts actively logged in.
Doesn't that kind of make you wonder? If I were providing a service like this, for pay, I would want to know what that number was on an hourly basis, and would base business decisions on it. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1019
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. You mean the metric they do reveal with some consistency?
Would that be the 450K "subscriber" number being currently bandied-about by CCP?
Otherwise, please direct me to the material. I don't think I've seen anything where they disclose exactly how the number of "subscribers" is determined (or defined) but I obviously cannot see or read everything that might be available. If CCP's definition of a "subscriber" is in fact the same as what I described, that would be news to me, and awesome for them.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Sure it does. If you came to my home and used my wifi, I'd know who you were. GǪbecause you can access the wifi access point I used to connect to the internet. CCP can't, so they have no idea.
Quote:We aren't talking about privacy laws here, we are talking about account connections. We are talking privacy laws because the only way for that MAC to be useful would be if the client recorded the MAC of the NIC it uses to connect to the server, and tried to map out the overall network around it so that it can be uniquely identified separately from other NICs that might share the same MAC. Only then could it report back to CCP its identity. That kind of active crawling and mapping out of your private LAN for the purpose of identifying you would quite quickly bash its heads against laws against exactly that kind of thing.
Not Politically Correct wrote:Ok. Let me put it this way. Is there any way for US to find out how many active, non-trial, accounts there actually are? Yes. Ask CCP. They publish that number every now and then. That is exactly what their GÇ£active subscriberGÇ¥ numbers have always counted, at least as far back as the QENs and GÇö as far as I know GÇö long before that as wellGǪ because its' the only subscriber number that actually matters to anyone. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Yes. Ask CCP. They publish that number every now and then.
Are you talking about the infamous 450k number? Or is it published somewhere else?
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1019
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:
but why does it matter?
there's over 50k on right now, and over 25k at the lowest/slowest time of day.
isn't that good enough?
You are confusing the # of players connected to the server with the total number of active (i.e. paid somehow) accounts. players Gëá accounts no. what i'm saying is: there's still tons of people that play the game, so the number of active accounts is irrelevant to us, the common player. when the max number of concurrent daily logins drops to the 40-45k range, then maybe it's time for concern.
"Tons of people" does not produce a usable numeric result in my spreadsheet so it's quite relevant to this uncommon player's interests.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3323
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Honestly, who cares ?
Really.
As long as there are folks playing the game and there doesn't seem to be any panic wafting from the CCP offices, what the heck does it even matter. Really? Why does it matter ?
Jeez, just play the game.
Log in and make the number higher if that makes you happier.
America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Are you talking about the infamous 450k number? I don't know. What's your source for that number and why is it infamous?
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1019
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Are you talking about the infamous 450k number? I don't know. What's your source for that number and why is it infamous?
This might help in terms of context: Linky
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:This might help in terms of context: Linky No, not really, since it doesn't tell me where he got the number from or why it's infamous.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
The problem is that I don't really like the way that the game has been going. More precisely, the direction that the game seems to be headed in. I didn't realize until the CSM 7 December Meeting Notes came out, that CCP is the driving force behind many of the things I don't like. I thought that stuff just happened on it's own and CCP didn't care enough to do anything about it.
Thus my post. Do they know what they are doing and the effect it is having? Are they willing to change direction if a better direction is pointed out to them? It doesn't seem that either is true. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote: I didn't realize until the CSM 7 December Meeting Notes came out, that CCP is the driving force behind many of the things I don't like.
You did not realize CCP is the games' creator ? Really ? America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
706
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 18:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doc Fury wrote:This might help in terms of context: Linky No, not really, since it doesn't tell me where he got the number from or why it's infamous. the number comes straight from the horse's own mouth: Linkage
no ide why it is infamous, though. I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1828
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 18:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Another problem is that I spent several years as a contract programmer. First rule is give the client what they ask for as long as it is possible to do that efficiently and profitably. I've been working as an software analyst, system designer and a project manager for almost 8 years now and I have never been in a situation where I had to satisfy the concerns and needs of multiple thousands of client(s) with different perspective and different tastes. So no, while the "first rule" by what you were saying does apply, it's not in the way that you think it applies.
So, TL;DR, your whole posts can be summed up as this. "I'd rather have other players-áget shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave |
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Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
226
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Posted - 2013.01.19 18:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
Not publicly I'm sure. Only accounts actively logged in.
Doesn't that kind of make you wonder? If I were providing a service like this, for pay, I would want to know what that number was on an hourly basis, and would base business decisions on it.
I'd assume that's proprietary information reserved by the companies entrusted with said private information to be honest.
I don't wonder who pays ccp or how many people do beyond my own transactions. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1107
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 18:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
I cast my vote for the OP in favor of Bad Post of the Day award today. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
62
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Posted - 2013.01.19 18:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:Another problem is that I spent several years as a contract programmer. First rule is give the client what they ask for as long as it is possible to do that efficiently and profitably. I've been working as an software analyst, system designer and a project manager for almost 8 years now and I have never been in a situation where I had to satisfy the concerns and needs of multiple thousands of client(s) with different perspective and different tastes. So no, while the "first rule" by what you were saying does apply, it's not in the way that you think it applies. So, TL;DR, your whole posts can be summed up as this.
Your signature line, not included of course, tells me everything I need to know about you.
Programming is programming. It doesn't matter how big the user base is. I've written stuff for use by thousands. All had different perspectives, etc. I did my best to give them what they wanted, not what I wanted or thought they should have. You write for the people who pay you, not for yourself. The software developer's likes and dislikes are irrelevant.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
1088
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 18:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:We aren't talking about privacy laws here, we are talking about account connections. We are talking privacy laws because the only way for that MAC to be useful would be if the client recorded the MAC of the NIC it uses to connect to the server, and tried to map out the overall network around it so that it can be uniquely identified separately from other NICs that might share the same MAC. Only then could it report back to CCP its identity. That kind of active crawling and mapping out of your private LAN for the purpose of identifying you would quite quickly bash its heads against laws against exactly that kind of thing. I do programming for doing L2 virtualized networking, and it's damn easy to create multiple interfaces for each client with their own MAC address and different gateway MAC addresses, unable to even trawl the local net for identifying information.
Hell, this is already the case with botters running clients under virtual machines. Nyan |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
4269
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 19:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
To accurately guess the paying subscriber base they look at the number of people who did indeed pay per month or the number of time codes "consumed' a month.
Accurate numbers usually haven't historically included trial accounts.
If that was the case wow would have 20 million players now, eve around 4 million.
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Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
132
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Posted - 2013.01.19 19:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote: Programming is programming. It doesn't matter how big the user base is. I've written stuff for use by thousands. All had different perspectives, etc. I did my best to give them what they wanted, not what I wanted or thought they should have. You write for the people who pay you, not for yourself. The software developer's likes and dislikes are irrelevant.
You might be right for business software, where the user dictates the interface and workflow. In this case if you watch the old videos the people who created CCP made "exactly the game we wanted to make", not "hey I bet people will pay for it if we make this".
True that was 10 years ago, but why after they've been doing great all this time should they change for entitled assholes like you? |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
414
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Posted - 2013.01.19 19:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Let me spin this, what if players have the wrong idea?
If CCP has the wrong idea they will go out of business. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 19:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Let me spin this, what if players have the wrong idea?
If CCP has the wrong idea they will go out of business.
Not even Incarna could achieve THAT. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
63
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 20:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mickeysoft (Microsoft) hasn't gone out of business, and everything they have ever released has been garbage. Go figure. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1109
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 20:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Mickeysoft (Microsoft) hasn't gone out of business, and everything they have ever released has been garbage. Go figure.
Welcome back to the forums, NickyYo. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |
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