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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
58
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 15:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
What if CCP is building a game that isn't what people want to play? I keep playing because there are parts of the game I like, even though I don't like most of it. After reading the CSM7 Meeting Minutes, it appears that CCP is responsible for a lot of the things I don't like.
Originally, I blamed the problem on the players, but, after the CSM7 meeting, I think I'm starting to see where the real problem lies.
As developers of the game, they can take it in any direction they want as long as people are still willing to pay for it. But are they even headed in the direction that will make them the most money?
They mention, periodically, that they have 100s of thousands of players, but the information on paying subscribers seems to be hard to find. What are the chances that they are counting the thousands of trial accounts that have expired as 'players', or the three accounts I have that I shut down? Figuring out how many paying subscribers they have should be trivial, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.
Sorry for getting side-tracked there. The real issue is, are they ignoring the options that would make this game more accessible and more desirable to more people, and to us, the active players?
Do they still have the Incarna mindset? That what the players want doesn't matter? |

Solstice Project
Highsec Outlaw Elementary School
2587
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 15:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
First ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Bump Truck
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
264
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Do you have any examples or ideas?
To paraphrase you've just written "I'm not sure about the direction CCP are heading in, I have no analysis of what that is or how it should change, what qualities do you guys think this undefined object has".
This makes it kind of hard to respond.
Are you talking about HighSec or Lowsec, about the shift to themes, about the danger of themeparkism, about Goonswarm the HBC or the Russians? Are you talking about expansions or lack of them?
They're definitely not going to do another Incarna, they're terrified of the players now. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3322
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:
As developers of the game, they can take it in any direction they want as long as people are still willing to pay for it. But are they even headed in the direction that will make them the most money?
If that was their goal, EVE would be a terrible game by now after a Decade.
Not Politically Correct wrote: Sorry for getting side-tracked there. The real issue is, are they ignoring the options that would make this game more accessible and more desirable to more people, and to us, the active players?
More accessible like WoW ?
These sound more like your desires. America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between. - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1446
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:But are they even headed in the direction that will make them the most money?
you can't be serious with this. Of course not. This would drive it against the wall. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |

Whitehound
399
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
When CCP has got the wrong ideas then we go shooting the monument in Jita and post pictures of ponies. But first do we need to let them get the wrong ideas or it is just not much fun. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:What are the chances that they are counting the thousands of trial accounts that have expired as 'players', or the three accounts I have that I shut down? Slim to none, since they can easily differentiate between a trial, an active, and an inactive account.
Quote:Figuring out how many paying subscribers they have should be trivial, but I've never seen it mentioned anywhere. That's because it's not trivial. There is almost no metric that can be used to reliably tie an account to a specific player GÇö every last indicator will be full of exceptions that mean that it doesn't actually indicate that two accounts do or do no not in fact belong to the same person. The best they can do is use surveys and hope to get a representative sample (which they most likely won't) and then hope that they can extrapolate from there.
Quote:Sorry for getting side-tracked there. The real issue is, are they ignoring the options that would make this game more accessible and more desirable to more people, and to us, the active players? What options would that be? Seeing as how we've already seen what happens when they deliver something players don't want (the GÇ£just keep playingGÇ¥ hypothesis has been proven wrong too many times to be sensible), it doesn't particularly seem like they're not giving people what they want already. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
61
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ok. One example. CCP seems to think that High Sec ganking is a necessary part of the game.
Necessary for what? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Ok. One example. CCP seems to think that High Sec ganking is a necessary part of the game.
Necessary for what? For the game economy to work properly and to counter the ability to hide corp-related activities in NPC corps. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Natasha Stone
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:That's because it's not trivial. There is almost no metric that can be used to reliably tie an account to a specific player GÇö every last indicator will be full of exceptions that mean that it doesn't actually indicate that two accounts do or do no not in fact belong to the same person.
I dunno, they got a clean sweep of my accounts when I was (wrongly) banned a while back. They can use email addy, they can use real name, they can use IP addresses. Plenty of ways. |

Nicor Syke'Nexen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
lets see:
worried about company income? check
worried about sub numbers? check
i smell an ex-wow player... anyone else? |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1714
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
OP is lacking content.
CCP is also responsible for all the things you like in the game.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
748
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Posting in a stealth "I want space-barbies" thread. Malcanis for CSM8 |

Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
733
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
EvE is very enyojabe during 3-4 years, here realy a lot things to do and explore - discovery, but longer you play and spent time in EvE more exousted and bored people are.
In my case after 6 years in EvE is realy hard to being active player and extract fun from this game like before, because here nothing new for veterans, and veterans are core of this game, CCP should think about these people more than about newbis and people who spent like 2 - 4 years in game because they got a lot features and content still to discovery while realy old players see nothings new.
EvE isn't game, its style of living. |

bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lock this thread due to lack of content please. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Natasha Stone wrote:I dunno, they got a clean sweep of my accounts when I was (wrongly) banned a while back. They can use email addy, they can use real name, they can use IP addresses. Plenty of ways. GǪnone of which can be reliably tied to a specific person: does a different email address mean a different player? No, I have a near-infinte amount of addresses at my disposal. Does the same email address mean the same player? No, couples my have share accounts. Does a different IP mean a different player? No, IPs are quite dynamic. Does the same IP mean the same player? No, NATed LANs can contain any number of players and are still very common for some institutions and residential areas. Can two players share the same name? Yes. Can a single player use different names for different accounts? Yes, there is no verification process.
To account for all contingencies and exception creates such an uncertain mess that you might as well just ask people and accept the selection errors. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

baltec1
Bat Country
4833
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:What if CCP is building a game that isn't what people want to play?
We would have known about it 10 years ago. |

Natasha Stone
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Natasha Stone wrote:I dunno, they got a clean sweep of my accounts when I was (wrongly) banned a while back. They can use email addy, they can use real name, they can use IP addresses. Plenty of ways. GǪnone of which can be reliably tied to a specific person: does a different email address mean a different player? No, I have a near-infinte amount of addresses at my disposal. Does the same email address mean the same player? No, couples my have share accounts. Does a different IP mean a different player? No, IPs are quite dynamic. Does the same IP mean the same player? No, NATed LANs can contain any number of players and are still very common for some institutions and residential areas. Can two players share the same name? Yes. Can a single player use different names for different accounts? Yes, there is no verification process.
Are you suggesting the majority of people lie about their identity when prompted to give their full name and date of birth when making a new account? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Natasha Stone wrote:Are you suggesting the majority of people lie about their identity when prompted to give their full name and date of birth when making a new account? I'm suggesting that no rule that could be suggested as a metric GÇö not even in combination with other such rules GÇö would be GÇ£cleanGÇ¥ enough to provide a good answer, given all the ways accounts can be created and used in this game and given the rather mixed demographic that would employ those accounts.
All you'd end up with is a semi-uncertain estimate, and there are far easier ways to get one of those than trying to account for all the variables required for any kind of automated counting method. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
226
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Minus a mac address I guess. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
733
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:lets see:
worried about company income? check
worried about sub numbers? check
i smell an ex-wow player... anyone else?
Would you say this when you see 2000 online, and CCP close to bankrupt? probably yes, because some people are against new people in game or new ideas, some people are afraid from gaming evolve progres , some people want eve offline. EvE isn't game, its style of living. |

Whitehound
399
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Ok. One example. CCP seems to think that High Sec ganking is a necessary part of the game.
Necessary for what? You first need to distinguish between the different ganks and then see if the good outweighs the bad.
Not all ganks are bad. Those for profit are reasonable and you should be able to see your mistake and learn from it. This can be fun for both.
Other ganks only spoil the game for others and are anti-social and depressing (it is typically the case when the gankers retreat to a logic of "my loss is smaller than yours").Those are not good for an MMO and CCP has been changing the game to reduce these. |

Flakey Foont
206
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
I hope they don't make the game "more accessible to the masses." I for one like being in an environment where dumb people will fail as they should be allowed to do in RL.
Justin Beiber sold the most songs last year. Is he a great artist? C'mon, a bunch of Verizon/Best Buy clerks spouting business plans is laughable.
Example from post above: " some people are afraid from gaming evolve progres..." |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12738
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Minus a mac address I guess. GǪare not transmitted across devices (but could conceivably be reported by the client); are not unique; and do not indicate a single person using the computer in question. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Nicor Syke'Nexen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tarvos Telesto wrote:Nicor Syke'Nexen wrote:lets see:
worried about company income? check
worried about sub numbers? check
i smell an ex-wow player... anyone else? Would you say this when you see 2000 online, and CCP close to bankrupt? probably yes, because some people are against new people in game or new ideas, some people are afraid from gaming evolve progres , some people want eve offline.
but neither are anywhere near happening.
relax, game is fine.
i'd even go so far as to say the game is perfect, compared to any other MMO.
|

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1019
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. That report should be easily accomplished via one line of SQL, and I'm sure it's already being run.
/Imma' gonna' go out on a limb, and bet right now that number is significantly less than 450K.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |

Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
61
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 16:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
I didn't mean the number of individual players. I meant the number of paid accounts. All they have to do is count money once a month to figure that out. Ooops. Forgot about PLEXes.
I never said they have a game that no one wants to play. I did say that there are parts of it I like. What I'm asking is if they are ignoring ways to make it better.
I'm not an elitist. I don't feel like a god because I have been able to hang on for three years. I would enjoy having more people in the game. So would CCP. They aren't going to get them unless they make some changes.
What percentage of trial accounts turn into subscribers? Why is that?
One of my problems with a lot of this is that this is the only on-line game I've ever played.
Another problem is that I spent several years as a contract programmer. First rule is give the client what they ask for as long as it is possible to do that efficiently and profitably.
CCP doesn't seem to care about that at all.
Edit: BTW, that comment about Hi Sec ganking being necessary to keep the economy stable is pure hogwash. |

Nicor Syke'Nexen
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I've got a 'metric' I'd like to see CCP reveal that does not suffer from any inaccuracies or abstract difficulty whatsoever, and that's the number of accounts that are presently active, minus trial accounts. That report should be easily accomplished via one line of SQL, and I'm sure it's already being run.
/Imma' gonna' go out on a limb, and bet right now that number is significantly less than 450K.
but why does it matter?
there's over 50k on right now, and over 25k at the lowest/slowest time of day.
isn't that good enough?
why do people get hung up on the number of subs so much? |

Ammzi
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
1296
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Ok. One example. CCP seems to think that High Sec ganking is a necessary part of the game.
Necessary for what?
Oh, you're one of those people. *searches repository for answers*
Here we go: Go back to WOW. This is not Hello Kitty online quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
226
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 17:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Minus a mac address I guess. GǪare not transmitted across devices (but could conceivably be reported by the client); are not unique; and do not indicate a single person using the computer in question.
They identify a connection, which the server can record. That, unlike ips, are not dynamic. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
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