Wardecs are perfect as is.
PVP corps can deny industrial corps access to their preferred play style because eve is a harsh and cold universe.

Problem is, it's not harsh and cold for the PVP corp. They get what they want without any consequences. We need a counter mechanic for industrial focused players that provides the same emergent gameplay fun!

I introduce the Marketdec. Corp A can bribe Concord to restrict all market interaction for Corp B. Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.

Same result for the other half of the game.

I'd love to see this mechanic abused. Locking permitless miners out of markets perhaps?

oh, also i think we just all missed the flaw of:

buy goods on an out of corp alt.
contract it to your other character.
totally ignore this entire mechanic.

Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.
.

Isn't that all smart players do with wardecs anyway? Stay docked, contract to alts and red frog resulting in a contract and login game that sucks all the fun out?

no, smart players disband and reform the corporation.

This already exists. It's called GÇ£wardecsGÇ¥ and/or GÇ£alliesGÇ¥ and it's available to industrial corps right now.

Not with POS running research jobs.

my wardec immune npc corp laughs at you.

This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.

This 1000 times.

They are here for a reason. The same people that cry foul about you keeping an NPC alt would have no hesitation about Awox-ing your corp or disbanding your entire alliance with a meta alt. Don't let others dictate strategy unless you like being a follower.

not even an npc alt, it's a main character. as the goon so eloquently points out, there's nothing in high sec worth fighting or owning so why not sit in a wardec immune npc corp?

Personally, a few reasons. 1) T2 invention. 2) 0.75 production in a POS 3) JC access to 0.0 PI 4) social aspects

Personally, a few reasons. 1) T2 invention. 2) 0.75 production in a POS 3) JC access to 0.0 PI 4) social aspects

In one war we crippled our enemy by destroying their supply of t3 cruisers. So what you want is already in game.

You don't need a PoS in high sec to produce the things that dominate the marekt. You only need to be in an NPC corp, working out of an NPC station.

That's not what I want though.

I want you to do that and effect the MARKET in that region. Same way hulkagdon effected the market, and how ice interdictions can effect the market. Edit: these are larger impaters than I want high sec corps to have as well. I want to make it clear, I want regional impact, not overal market impact like can be gained through hulkagedon type events.

We can't sustain those though.

Nor does it make the NPC corp industrialist worse than the player run one.

I'm competing with a group of people that literally run high sec industry, and I"m not allowed to impact them? That's rediculous.

If T2 industry, and the refining of high concentration ores was run through a player run station, what happens when you take that station offline?

I don't think it's neccesary to "destroy" the station, but other high sec corps should have the means, in war, to take it offline so it's not usable, and then flip it.

That one system can have significant impact on the market in that region.


High sec industrial corps should be allowed to influence the market through warfare. This core to industrial activity. As an industrialist my goal is to sell as much of my stuff as possible, AT THE BEST PRICE I CAN GET. But I have very little recourse when it comes to enforceing my will upon the market.

The abundance of goods that comes out of any given region by an entire group that can not be impacted, makes it impossible for a high sec corporation to strategically enforce their will in that market.

You can't stop the building.

I like how you think. Lots of great ideas. Agreed, buffs to player corps are a major need along with the making wardecs matter in high sec. And pretty much for the OP. If an industrial corp cannot handle being wardecced, or cannot or will not hire guards. Then realistically speaking, you're failing. Even the lowliest industrial worker can clobber someone with a big freaking wrench. If you get decced by a griefer corp. Grab some cheap frigates, fit some weapons and other modules. Then go swarm them. I notice lots of those griefer corps like to fly more expensive ships since they know they probably won't lose them. So blow some of their ships up and cost them some money and grief.

I dont get these "fight back" folks, have you ever been decced? Wardeccers dont fight to lose, they station hump. Bringing frigates against massively buffer tanked battleships resulting in easy drone kills or docking games while they lulz in local.

I'm looking for an alternative to space combat. They deprive me of my game, meaning I either pvp or dont play. I want a mechanic to return the favor.

I dont get these "fight back" folks, have you ever been decced? Wardeccers dont fight to lose, they station hump. Bringing frigates against massively buffer tanked battleships resulting in easy drone kills or docking games while they lulz in local.

Perhaps an NPC corp would help?

The right of every capsuleer to earn isk, unimpeded, shall not be infringed.

That's not what I want though.

I want you to do that and effect the MARKET in that region. Same way hulkagdon effected the market, and how ice interdictions can effect the market. Edit: these are larger impaters than I want high sec corps to have as well. I want to make it clear, I want regional impact, not overal market impact like can be gained through hulkagedon type events.

ban npc corps

and where do all the people in npc corps end up?

High sec industrial corps should be allowed to influence the market through warfare. This core to industrial activity. As an industrialist my goal is to sell as much of my stuff as possible, AT THE BEST PRICE I CAN GET. But I have very little recourse when it comes to enforceing my will upon the market.

Wardecs are perfect as is.
PVP corps can deny industrial corps access to their preferred play style because eve is a harsh and cold universe.

Problem is, it's not harsh and cold for the PVP corp. They get what they want without any consequences. We need a counter mechanic for industrial focused players that provides the same emergent gameplay fun!

I introduce the Marketdec. Corp A can bribe Concord to restrict all market interaction for Corp B. Now pvpers must mine and build their own stuff, thus forcing the industrial playstyle on them.

Same result for the other half of the game.

You can do this, Its just a question of money and intel.

I dont get these "fight back" folks, have you ever been decced? Wardeccers dont fight to lose, they station hump. Bringing frigates against massively buffer tanked battleships resulting in easy drone kills or docking games while they lulz in local..

What good is the bounty on a high sec corp, who doesn't undock, and has nothing to lose?

There's no control over the T2 market. The corporation that's responcible for the bulk of the market can't be wardeced. Ganking isn't the solution. Is anyone denying that the bulk of T2 products on the market isn't made by people in NPC corporations?

I face the equivilent of a NPC corp guy being able to come to null, and if I shoot them CONCORD pwns me and they can shoot me all day. I'm not exagerating this.

There is NO sufficient means of poking the biggest instigators in EVE. The only thing ganking enough people to have an impact will do, is lead to changes that make EVE safer. Gank enough frieghters and CCP will do something with them. Gank enough miners and CCP will...

When I fly around high sec, I see miners from NPC corps. I don't see many miners from player run corps. And when they are in a corp, I check that corp out and it's usually an incredibly small number of people, usually whatever sitting in the belt mining, with a name having only a numerical difference.


I already got the intel part down. I know exactly who it is that impacts me. There isn't enough ISK for anyone to fight back.
I have the tools to fight back against other player run corporations, but they aren't the ones impacting me. The corporations that impact me, CCP says I can't put a bounty on them, and if I want to poke them I have to gank them.

The supply line aspect of it all doesn't really bother me. Ganking frieghters to disrupt the enemy is about the only thing that's working. NPC corp guys moving goods is fine with me. I think it's actually good for the game that the NPC corps be used to avoid the wardec for the purpose of moving things around; crazy, I know.

It doesn't matter where you play, if you're an industrialist and you're in a player run corporation, ther'se four corporations that will have massive impact on what you do, and you can't do **** about it. We can't disrupt NPC corp production enough to reach a point where player run corps have control over the goods on the market; it's never happend.



Give that power to the high sec corporation and they will grow, they will fight to hold onto it power. Those that can't, will ally with those that can. Those that simply wouldn't lke to take part in a more dynamic high sec would just have to pay whatever the player run corporations decide they should.

Wardecs represent a significant level of risk and effort. High sec corporations that stay together are not being rewarded for assuming any of that risk and effort. They have nothing to win or lose.

I believe that high sec corporations should be fighting over the power to control T2 production.
Not the ability to do it, but to tax people for doing it.

That would be an incredibly meaningful thing for people to declare war on each other over in high sec.

War is pretty meaningles when there's nothing being faught over.
And the people we should be going to war with, can't be decced because they have no reason to join a player run corporation.

Let the player run corporations tax those people.

In order to accomplish getting people out of NPC corps and into player run corps, you need a really big carrot and a complete overhaul of how corporations work.

For starters, corporations should pay thier employees instead of tax them like what happens in real life. Basically what there should be is first a corporation market just for its employees which you can easily sell your goods to your own corporation without dealing with outside people. Of course you can do this with corporation contract, but its a pain and not automated.

Secondly, (and some people don't like this) there should be better methods to manage wealth in a corporation. Letting employees have access to some wealth without giving them access to its entireity. It might cut down on corp theft but the truth of the matter is that because you can't control this, people don't want to put the effort into starting a corp.

Also, corp mates should not be able to kill each other automatically without recourse. Concord should get involved with such events. Again, I know people won't like this change, but if the idea is to get people out of NPC corps you need to give them a bigger carrot to get them out.

Isn't that all smart players do with wardecs anyway? Stay docked, contract to alts and red frog resulting in a contract and login game that sucks all the fun out?

and where do all the people in npc corps end up?

Show me a hardcore PvP/pirate/ganker/wanker that doesn't have a perfectly law-abiding hisec carebare money-maker alt and I'll show you a liar.

effectively 1man player corps, deccable but undissolvable (because there is no NPC corps)

and as a miner i have no interest in any of those. hence, npc corp.

I've always felt that the variety of ore should be a lot more granular though out the various sec level's as well... where you find better ore in .5 systems than in .9, and varieties of or in low sec unavailable anywhere else.

Anyway, carry on...

But pvp players are stalking you and fighting you and generally getting all the way up into your cheese fries. Why shouldn't you have to work to get up into our business?

.

Wardecs are perfect as is.
PVP corps can deny industrial corps access to their preferred play style because eve is a harsh and cold universe.

Problem is, it's not harsh and cold for the PVP corp. They get what they want without any consequences. We need a counter mechanic for industrial focused players that provides the same emergent gameplay fun!

That's not something that the industrial player is *doing*. If pvp corps attacking industrial corps only had to throw in the dec and walk away, then we'd be talking.

But pvp players are stalking you and fighting you and generally getting all the way up into your cheese fries. Why shouldn't you have to work to get up into our business?

Additionally, as an experienced user of game mechanics, I know that I would be using that same 'industrial dec' on you. And probably as many corps as I possibly could.

Remember, any tool given to you is also given to me, and vice versa.