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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.07.03 00:40:00 -
[1]
It's been going around in my head all day that as soon as the new patch comes out, all of caldari is going to have its hands tied while it spends a month training the new missile skills.
Meanwhile the other 3 races are well on their way to frieghters and dreadnoughts.
Does this seen a little slanted to anyone else and does anyone else think that the missile skills should have been released early even if with no effect until patch day?
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Fenga Montego
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Posted - 2005.07.03 00:42:00 -
[2]
Highly doubt it. Nothing prevents the Caldari from training Freighters and Dread skill as well.
The other races have to train the XXL guns and whatever, too, right? Same difference :P
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.03 00:53:00 -
[3]
agreed with raw
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.07.03 01:45:00 -
[4]
Why.....
They nerfed turrets before they bought in tech 2 guns.
We spent months training those, while you boys lorded it up doing something else..
Your turn
--------
"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
'A Streetcar Named Desire' |
Santiac
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Posted - 2005.07.03 02:37:00 -
[5]
i must agree - could have been deployed a bit earlier for all the missile users out there, a small patch that would require 0.5 - 1 more hour of downtime at some random tuesday a small month ago wouldn't have hurt :)
And haven't been around long enough to see what went on with the turret skills everyones talking about (or otherwise i just didn't notice :P), but as the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right :)
But in the end it's either this, or people not understanding for a month why the new fancy skills doesn't work yet ;P
on a sidenote in case i sound biased, i dislike missiles ;o
________________________________________
<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Alexander Reikson
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Posted - 2005.07.03 07:57:00 -
[6]
Oh noes, missle users will finnally have to train some skills close to number of skills that turret users have to train to be similar effective. What a pity. 
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Pesht
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Posted - 2005.07.03 08:04:00 -
[7]
Wow, I sense a lot of hostility from turret users, seems most of their logic is centered around revenge more than reasoning. It's not about having to train skills, it's about losing all your effectiveness with a weapon for 2 months.
However, this is kinda pointless, seeing as they didn't release them early, so missile users, myself included, will just have to deal. Meh, annoying, but not a permanent setback. I'm really looking forward to the changes myself, lack of skills or no. Will be nice to have missiles hitting their target almost as fast as turrets now.
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:20:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Alexander Reikson
Oh noes, missle users will finnally have to train some skills close to number of skills that turret users have to train to be similar effective. What a pity.
Oh, the turret users bite
If you bothered to read the post you'd see my problem wasnt with having to train new skills, but the fact they release them at the same time as the new ship classes so we are pre-occupied for weeks while everyone else steams ahead to their dreads.
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.07.03 10:20:00 -
[9]
Speaking as a Caldari missile user, I have no complaints unless light missiles can't pwn interceptors even with the new skills.
(I fully expect heavy missiles, Cruise missile and Torps to be useless against fast frigs, unless you web and/or paint the frig.....)
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Hast
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Posted - 2005.07.03 12:03:00 -
[10]
oh noes.
Serves you right. I've been training mostly gunnery skills or spaceship command since I started. thats the price you guys have to pay for killing so many of my ceptors 
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Delacho
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Posted - 2005.07.03 14:10:00 -
[11]
jeez, only takes like 2 days to get all the skills at lvl3. at that point missiles will be usuable again. then you can afterwards max out to 5 for that extra little punch.
2 days is about the timeframe till server settles down and game gets playable again anyway. so you'r loosing nothing in time in the end.
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Pestily
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Posted - 2005.07.03 18:37:00 -
[12]
im a missile user and im agreeing with Delacho... it really wont take much time to get the skills up enough so your missiles will be useable... and also the missile overhaul was announced ages ago and people knew that T2 launchers will be coming out so if you were smart like me you would already have learn or started learning the type of missiles u use most to level 5 so your prepared for everything. just my 2 cents. :)
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.03 19:15:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Sadist on 03/07/2005 19:15:18
Any whining about:
1. Caldari ships sucking in general
2. Shield tanking being worse than armor tanking
3. Why does my EW suck?
4. Missiles sucking after nerfbat.
5. Anything else, that you might find unsatisfactory or unbalanced in regard to your caldari race, ships, and primary skills
WIll now be placed into "Stupid caldari whining for the "I WIN" button" category and the person whining will be labeled as an idiot and a loser.
Thank you for the attention. If you disagree, feel free to go kill yourself.
---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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hellraiser 2
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Posted - 2005.07.03 19:23:00 -
[14]
i'm sure some people don't read the posts before they make a comment on it ..lol
The turret nerf has nothing to do with this because you didn't have to train 5-6 new weapons skills when it happened.
Even if all missile users trained their skills to level 5 you still got to train them new skills before you can use your BS right again.
to train all skills from missiles you would now need to train 13-14 skills whereas a turret user needs to train 10 not including weapons upgrade and specializations skills.
Anyway Rawthorm's point which i agree with is that most caldari pilots will have to first spend time training missile skills on top of the probable 2 month training needed to get that dreadnaught, we have all been waiting for. 
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Santiac
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Posted - 2005.07.03 21:38:00 -
[15]
I really don't get some of these posters mentality, there is next to no discussion on these forums just name calling and general *****ing about the next guys views.
Post was what people opinions was on missile skills not being released before the changes occured,
and to get back on topic:
This only stouts the missile users ability to play with the changes when they occured (granted for perhaps only a couple of days), it doesn't set back that they could train other stuff untill they got out, and it wouldn't make them train for the changes in less time then turret users did. From what i've heard turret users were treated the same, but that does not mean, that because the devs might not havde taken it into consideration back then, that they aren't allowed to take it into consideration next time they do it. In the end everyone might be busy training a few of the new skills (i.e. i'm going to take a gander at those neat leadership skills :>) so to me it seems like making mountains out of mole hills in either case, i couldn't care less if the evul missile users had been allowed to train the skills a month ago or they had to wait, but my common sense and tree-hugging side tells me it wouldn't have hurt anyone either if they had been allowed to :) nor if groups that use specefic items (armour, shield, <type> turrets, missiles, racial ships etc.) were allowed to do so in the future.
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<insert clever/witty comment here>
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.03 22:35:00 -
[16]
Think of this: While all turret users were training their turret skills to 4 and 5, you were able to train things like engineering, electronics, navigation, etc. You were the ones that had your weapons use approximately zero skillpoints.
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Pesht
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Posted - 2005.07.03 22:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Selim
Think of this: While all turret users were training their turret skills to 4 and 5, you were able to train things like engineering, electronics, navigation, etc. You were the ones that had your weapons use approximately zero skillpoints.
Turret users having to train up new skills did not coincide with the unveiling of the most skill intensive ships to date, that's the difference.
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.07.03 23:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pesht
Originally by: Selim
Think of this: While all turret users were training their turret skills to 4 and 5, you were able to train things like engineering, electronics, navigation, etc. You were the ones that had your weapons use approximately zero skillpoints.
Turret users having to train up new skills did not coincide with the unveiling of the most skill intensive ships to date, that's the difference.
Thats the line i've been stuggling to find all day. Simple and right to the point.
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Lefia
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Posted - 2005.07.04 03:54:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lefia on 04/07/2005 03:57:06
Frankly I don't see how up to this point missle users have been in any way unable to train caldari BShip up to level 5 and spaceship command up to level 5. Since these are the ONLY two prerequisits for flying the dreadnaught (won't even mention the freighter because weapons training doesn't even effect this thing, as it has no slots), any deficiency in these two skills is not the fault of CCP. Also, we already know that citadel torps are probably going to need torp level 5(4?) and missle launcher operation 5, again no reason why you shouldn't have these trained anyway if you want to fly a dread. As far as the new missle skills, it was already said that you are about 2 days behind... an entire 2 days. For a ship that is supposed to take at least 2 weeks to build, and will probably take another week or two worth of mining and mineral purchasing efforts, coupled with the need to train advanced spaceship command 5, I don't really see as a week in either direction is going to make a monumental difference.
Lets keep things in perspective people, it's going to be at least a month before we're even close to seeing a dread of any kind remotely close to being in space. By the time they do hit space, a few days extra missle training is not going to make or break any of the people who are going to be able to even afford building these hulking beasts.
Originally by: hired goon
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I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had.
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Haoleboy
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Posted - 2005.07.04 09:16:00 -
[20]
While missles have had much need for more skills, the fact that we are getting all our support skills, ontop of T2 is a bit unfair. Yes, gunnery has more SP, but you didnt have to think "support or T2?" Also, most Caldari have good gunnery skills anyways, just to fly other race ships if nothing else. I dont think Caldari will really be gimped too much, unless you wanna go T2, but thats your choice.
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Slaveabuser
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Posted - 2005.07.04 09:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rawthorm
It's been going around in my head all day that as soon as the new patch comes out, all of caldari is going to have its hands tied while it spends a month training the new missile skills.
Pffft, missile users have been blessed for a long time. Relatively few skills to train to do much damage.
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Nytemaster
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Posted - 2005.07.04 09:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Nytemaster on 04/07/2005 09:56:58
Training missile skills up to level III or IV won't be all that tough really. I mean I had all my gun skills to level IV pretty quick, it was the level V's that took forever. Using this knowledge and prerequisite knowledge about tech II missile requirements wash. Besides, I don't remember turret users getting much notification on their nerf and tech II guns didn't come out until after the nerf had been in effect. Looks like turret users have something to complain about, no?
Nytemaster
Mega-Deth |
duduk
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Posted - 2005.07.04 22:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nytemaster
Edited by: Nytemaster on 04/07/2005 09:56:58
I don't remember turret users getting much notification on their nerf and tech II guns didn't come out until after the nerf had been in effect. Looks like turret users have something to complain about, no?
Turret users will always have a lot of hate for missile users. Mind you they didn't have to train up new skills in order to be effective, they just had to bump their pre-existing skills up. As far as turret users not having much notification. Well that's a bunch of bull. Turret users had heaps of warnings before the nerf, but most took it for granted and didn't bother testing them out on sisi. Now the player base is more educated. Anyway it is a bit childish and sad to be saying 'you must pay now' personally I'm more interest in having balance in the game. then again I probably have stronger rl values, but hey. ccp says we have to wait. so I will wait.
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Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.07.04 23:26:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 04/07/2005 23:28:12
Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 04/07/2005 23:27:20
ANYWAY im just gonna traned all the new missle skills to klev 5 including that new engering skills that does 2% reduction in shield boost cap use, o and for the people saying its not gonna take long , well yallk are wround, look at ther ranks, and some takes 1 day and a few houres just to get on lev 3 from lev 2
Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime!
Image done by Denrace |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.05 01:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: duduk
....interest in having balance in the game. then again I probably have stronger rl values, but hey. ccp says we have to wait. so I will wait.
thats a lot to infer based on simply on his feelings about skills in a game.
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duduk
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Posted - 2005.07.05 21:30:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: duduk
....interest in having balance in the game. then again I probably have stronger rl values, but hey. ccp says we have to wait. so I will wait.
thats a lot to infer based on simply on his feelings about skills in a game.
..actually it speaks volumes. Remove the 'skills' aspect from the equation and you have hatred, revenge and jealousy. The scary thing is this isn't role playing. Pretty sad really.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.05 22:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pesht
Originally by: Selim
Think of this: While all turret users were training their turret skills to 4 and 5, you were able to train things like engineering, electronics, navigation, etc. You were the ones that had your weapons use approximately zero skillpoints.
Turret users having to train up new skills did not coincide with the unveiling of the most skill intensive ships to date, that's the difference.
Listen up. You've had a great thing going for you for a very long time. Now you don't and the timing isn't great.
Take 15 minutes, cry a bit, then move on.
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Amon Evakrace
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:11:00 -
[28]
what a load of *****ing, cant we all at least agree that ccp have totally*****ed it up with the light missles? i mean jesus, for being the "most powerful" of the 4 factions, as said in the new cool intro ofc, the caldari really take the shaft in frig/inty/af warfare now.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:15:00 -
[29]
Oh noessss!!11
think of the missile users! THE MISSILE USERS!!11
- Gob |
Talos Munjab
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:53:00 -
[30]
This is so sad, when projectile turrets were nerfed, did we he sympathy from the caldari...NO all we heard was haha your no longer the uber tempest users. well sorry to say this but tough luck caldari, you can no longer have a supur uber ship by training a third of the skills gunery users need. so cry all you want, this needed to happen and now it has deal with it like the 3 other races had to.
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Corvus Anderran
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:16:00 -
[31]
So actually, despite all the whining, the only point people really have is that they won't be able to fly a dread as soon as someone who doesn't use missiles? Gimme a break, any advantages over skill training times are mitigated by a) the massive build time and b) the massive amount of minerals needed. Besides, if you so desperately want the new dread and freighter skills so quick, train them anyway. Missiles aren't as bad as people claim anyway, just stick a target painter and webber onto your setup. Sure, it's make a sacrifice, but meh, you can't have everything.
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Odet
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:32:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Odet on 06/07/2005 21:32:10
Originally by: Sadist
Edited by: Sadist on 03/07/2005 19:15:18
Thank you for the attention. If you disagree, feel free to go kill yourself.
lol. was going to post something like that, but then i remebered why i got banned last time....
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:46:00 -
[33]
Oh come on, it is not like EVERY pilot will train to use Dreadnoughts anyhow.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Galk
Why.....
They nerfed turrets before they bought in tech 2 guns.
We spent months training those, while you boys lorded it up doing something else..
Your turn
have to agree lol
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redrum3
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Posted - 2005.07.07 03:30:00 -
[35]
CCP wins I quit
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Lagar
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:56:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Lagar on 07/07/2005 11:57:11
Edited by: Lagar on 07/07/2005 11:57:02
ok let me tell you this.. so far EVERY one has had a disadvantage with their guns nerfed changed or otherwise.. EXEPT the caldari.... It's caldari's time or else caldari will rule whole of eve.. and even tho i am caldari i respect balance.. wanting everyone to fight on a very equal power (exept the jove ofcorse) so this patch is totaly briliant.
And considering that now that one cant enter other empires space without taking the risk of being ganked by pirates (yer i have seen a few)
it's quite acepteable.. now one cant take a barge just everywhere.... now you have to think before you act in empire.
If you dont like the nerf start training the new missile skills and the nerf will get nerfed.. somewhat.. just dont expect the torp insta ganking frigates anymore.. and it's like it should..
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:01:00 -
[37]
If you want to feel for someone disadvantaged towards dreadnoughts, Try minmatar, who's dreadnought is 2 turrets with 1 bonus to them and 2 launchers with 1 bonus to them, so matari have to train the new missile skills, new XL missile skills, new XL turret skills and finally the dreads 
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-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Macdorek Hackshield
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:24:00 -
[38]
Training not a issue. I new as well and silly me, I been working on missle skills. But there is a problem with new skills. It in the bugs section. You can hit before training, soon as train either the new skills and now you miss.
I not care what your using, it should be trained and the higher the better. But to start a training and now can't hit what you hit before, that seems wrong.
This will get fixed. They want missle users to have right missles for the job is all and the skills to use them. Strange concept
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The Major
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:33:00 -
[39]
It took me half an hour to train two skills to level 1 that made standard missiles hit at the same range they used to. 30 minutes. That's nothing. Now as I train those skills up higher my missiles will become MORE effective than they were before the patch. I'll be getting longer ranges and higher damage from a relatively small amount of training time.
I don't see this as any great inconvienience to my trek to a Dreadnaught. A trip I don't even intend to start until I can afford to lose one. Which probably won't be for a few years. And of course regaining the investment on a Dreadnaught will be tricky. You won't be able to farm missions in them any better than you can a good Battleship, you can't take them into empire and you can't even move system without a gang of buddies. In terms of money making ability I'd suggest you stick to Battleships.
So with that in perspective I have no problem with spending a week training missile skills that will result in me hitting harder, faster and with more power than ever before.
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KoeShadowhawk
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Posted - 2005.07.07 13:05:00 -
[40]
New skills = cool, can still hit BS's easy but now cruise can go (with skills) like 8.2 km/s. Thats FAST, so stop whining and adapt.
i do wish i could like turn in my 8mil sp in gunnery into like 4mil sp in missiles, now that would be handy :D
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.07 17:09:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 07/07/2005 17:09:35
Originally by: Rawthorm
Meanwhile the other 3 races are well on their way to frieghters and dreadnoughts.
Does this seen a little slanted to anyone else and does anyone else think that the missile skills should have been released early even if with no effect until patch day?
I have put 6 million into gunnery fyi while you where running around with 3-4 million in SP doing lvl 4s in your raven. I also have at least 2 months till I have maxed my gunnery for all gallentte releated skills.
Just letting you know.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:01:00 -
[42]
but doesn't the cold war era trailer state we are of military and corporate might or something like that?
 ppppppppppppppp
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Jalia Kovac
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
If you want to feel for someone disadvantaged towards dreadnoughts, Try minmatar, who's dreadnought is 2 turrets with 1 bonus to them and 2 launchers with 1 bonus to them, so matari have to train the new missile skills, new XL missile skills, new XL turret skills and finally the dreads
TouchÚ.
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RapierX
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:47:00 -
[44]
i think the wrong arguement was made here
the biggest problem i have the changes are with power grid usage it gimps every caldari ship that realies on missiles hell a kessie can only fit 2 launchers it doesnt have hard points for guns.the devs response is "train the new skill" when you increase something 200% to 300% what the hell is 10% gonna do for you. Caldari ships are supposed to have cpu problems not grid problems and now we have both.all other races can fit thier weapons and we cannot thats my biggest gripe. if you wanna say ravens do too much damage then you havent been in enough fleet battle its bring a gunship or dont bother going becuase your missiles will never hit the target before it gets melted
I have a big problem with being nerfed becuase of agent runners. my 2 cents
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Ademaro Imre
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Posted - 2005.07.08 01:53:00 -
[45]
Caldari and Minmatar are nerefed from the beginning for new players because to effectively use all the highslots for firepower, those races have to do the most cross training.
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