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Demolishar
United Aggression
742
   |
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Thread over, your anecdotal experience trumps everything, clearly.
If we're ignoring everything but the completely objective: Characters are a commodity, and my original point stands. |
Jantunen the Infernal
O C C U P Y
102
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
I don't even have much SP and I still think that clone costs need to be reduced. Atleast maybe add a new extremely high rank skill to reduce them by a certain percentage so that those who wish for cheaper clones can spend their valuable time and SP on acquiring it, when those who don't can just focus on more important everyday skills and come out ahead in that area. |
Demolishar
United Aggression
742
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jantunen the Infernal wrote:Atleast maybe add a new extremely high rank skill to reduce them by a certain percentage so that those who wish for cheaper clones can spend their valuable time and SP on acquiring it.
This is an awesome and deliciously ironic idea. |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
84
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
I am currently in an Omicron, though I do plan on getting into much more expensive clones eventually. If it gets fixed before I get there, I'll be appreciative.
TBH, I'd like it if we could get comparatively low cost BPOs and then mass produce ourselves through PI and corpse collecting.
Only other question I really have is why is it that pods are only worth 1m unless the clone inside them had implants? If I manage to pod an Upsilon why don't I get credit for the clone on the kill report?
C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
Tramp Oline
District of Power
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Give us a skill to reduce clone costs and make our standing with the owner of the station with the medical facility reduce it even more. The way refining costs work. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
Home Front Coalition
295
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Wrayeth wrote:Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Roguelike games from the past simply took X percentage out of your wallet. It was a great incentive to not sit on your money. This could be easily gamed just by focusing on having lots of assets and keeping your wallet small. Besides, it's not like my wallet has lots of ISK in it, anyway. In regards to the original question, would a passing dev care to respond, even if it's just "we're still looking at it but don't have anything concrete that we can share"?
Completely true, especially with this economic model where it's smarter to invest then to let it sit anyway. Personally after your ship has died and you have lost your implants, I think a player has been punished enough. To throw an economic sanction on top... what is this, Dark Souls!? So far no-one has been able to provide me with a satifying answer to the question why these costs exist in the first place, apart from it's an ISK sink. This topic offers, again, a chance to plainly ask what are they for? Excuse me my stupidity if the answer is so obvious I'm just looking past it. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
754
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Flat rate jump-clones for cheap & remove the 24 hour transfer throttle. Make jump clones cost 100,000ISK and make the transfer time just one hour. That would shift a lot of people from a mindset of PvP phobia into one of PvP eagerness. Because OP is right - after a certain point your pod is your most expensive component.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
939
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
If a player wishes to pvp at BC ship level or below (all races) for most of his/her game time, what would be the optimal number of skill points to train, before stopping to keep clone costs at the minimum level needed to cover said skill points?
This is not a signature. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
494
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Demolishar wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277
Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Dumbest thing ever. Characters are just another commodity. In real life if you owned some sports car and suddenly ran out of money to run it, what would you do?
Unlike the random pawn I just don't do things because mu humor depends on day's weather and I don't have the feeling owning superficial goods make of me someone better. So sorry but I can't understand this sports car thing because in my mind when you need this kind of stuff you have some deeper personal/identity issue to solve than you sports car problem.
Quote:Oh of course, YOU'd scream to the government to reduce fuel prices and refuse to ever drive again until they do.
No I'm on the side who's looking at [insert whatever automobile manufacturer] and other useless actors and sees the truth little people want to face: you don't need them for nothing, absolutely nothing they can do will ever convince me I need them to improve my self or my life style, but THEY need cheep and brainless minds for sure.
I like original, respectable and responsible people so sorry once again, but this example is not talking to me at any level.
Quote:Everyone else with common sense would sell it (to someone with the cash to buy it and run it), and buy a smaller, more economical car that they can afford to run.
Well again, you're talking about Eve pixels like those were worth of anything else than the personal appreciation you give to them. You might see them as some way of whatever fake, unpersonalized internet pixels worth of whatever value.
To me it's only worth of how much time I'm willing to pay for my subscription and the day come where it worth nothing, it goes down the toilet like every single unworthy thing I've ever done or got because I could.
To bring this more on the OP line of discussion, it's simply idiot to sell the character you put in so much effort because at some point whatever rule or game mechanic pushed the idiocy point at levels beyond all logic. Well bring logic to eve is a mistake I'm aware of that, but at this single point here I can safely say Eve is worth of nothing if improving your character to be able to explore all the areas of Eve gaming requires you to become stupid.
Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++ |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2534
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 22:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP needs to remove clone costs and the goofy standings requirements for jump clones in high sec. Both are a barrier for high-risk PVP behavior.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries
Mistakes Were Made.
116
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 23:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
Just going to point out clones are 50% off if you buy them in a FW upgraded system, even if you aren't in FW. So, they're half whatever youre paying now. Just go do that, and stop bitching about it hurting to be an older player. If anything, your clone cost should be justification to fit out those cheap ships more expensively. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
494
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 23:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Just going to point out clones are 50% off if you buy them in a FW upgraded system, even if you aren't in FW. So, they're half whatever youre paying now. Just go do that, and stop bitching about it hurting to be an older player. If anything, your clone cost should be justification to fit out those cheap ships more expensively.
Well if idiocy deserved to make clones be more expensive, many players would pay billions for 10million sp characters...
You can't be serious can you?
Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++ |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
74
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 23:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
I thought people playing this game loved the cold harsh reality of risk vs reward and would get a huge thrill out of high SP clones being enormously expensive! What a rush, pvping and risking having to spend so much isk on a replacement! Whooosh!
or maybe not?
|
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
589
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 07:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
I don't get it. Couldn't you just not buy the clone?
You get one for free you know.
You'll lose a bit of SP, but it seems ISK is more precious than SP in your position.... |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
54
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 08:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
My clone costs 45 mil empty (i.e. no implants). You can buy a brand, spanking new battlecruiser for that. So yeah, cost comes into it when it starts to break the bank.
In regards to losing skillpoints, just...no. If I didn't want those skillpoints, I would've stopped training a long time ago. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
4029
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 08:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:I thought people playing this game loved the cold harsh reality of risk vs reward and would get a huge thrill out of high SP clones being enormously expensive! What a rush, pvping and risking having to spend so much isk on a replacement! Whooosh!
or maybe not?
It's supposed to be a choice. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose and all that. With clone cost you'll get extra costs just because you have played longer regardless of what you fly, how you fit it or what implants you use. It turns a simple frigate loss to a potential grind to replace when replacing it should be almost effortless for everyone. Alternatively it makes people increasingly avoid fighting where there is a high risk of getting podded. This is all generally speaking. If you're space rich, you don't give a damn about clone costs, but that isn't the norm and doesn't change the pressure the mechanic puts on player behavior.
So what is this reward I'm getting for the extra cost of medical clones? It hasn't increased my income for years and I've trained almost all relevant skills to 5 too long ago, so it isn't combat performance either. It's just punishing veteran players and long time loyal customers for no particular reason. At best you could say, that I'm paying the price in order to be more versatile, but that is more of a last desperate attempt to defend the current system, then it is a solid reasoning for having the system in the first place.
I've said it long ago, that the system doesn't make much sense and causes problems, but the problem isn't acute enough to warrant a fix until enough vocal players reach those high SP levels. It'll happen at some point though, sooner or later.
|
Spurty
V0LTA
Verge of Collapse
750
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 14:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Here's a better idea: you can't train if you're logged out or docked up or cloaked
Now I'm off to find a wall to head butt
---
GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥
GÇò Philip K. **** |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
800
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 16:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Tom Gerard wrote: In no way was this the subject of discussion. Your post reveals that you lack the gleam of intelligence required to be a forum troll, therefore I assume you lack the education to process the information. As friendly internet traveler I suggest you consider: Reading Comprehensionhttp://www.phx.devry.edu/samplereadingcomprehensionquestions.htmlDeVry will sort you out, they offer 8 week sessions and the next one is opening in only 6 weeks, so register now! Biggest piece of sh*tposting I've ever seen. The terrible attempt at sarcastic humour could've ended after "subject of discussion". You, sir, get an award.
U MAD BRO?
Hey, I just met you... and this is crazy but you popped my Rifter, so don't pod me maybe? |
Dave Stark
1670
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 17:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
here's a controversial idea; flat rate for clones after a reasonable level of SP as not to alienate new players. after say, a year's worth of SP which is what? ~15m sp?
so keep the system as it is now, until you hit 15m sp, then after that have a flat rate for clones. still an isk sink, and it doesn't hurt your wallet if you get podded in an 8 year old character.
"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system." |
Demolishar
United Aggression
743
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 17:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:I don't get it. Couldn't you just not buy the clone?
You get one for free you know.
You'll lose a bit of SP, but it seems ISK is more precious than SP in your position....
 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3397
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 18:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
I have to agree with Wray on this one.
While I am the first to admit that there is a certain logic to better clones costing more... and in the grand scheme of things 45mil should not be a big hurdle to an older character on top of the normal cost of a PVP loss.
However, what gets to me is that it makes it very, very difficult to justify using a cheap ship for... well anything actually. This wouldn't be that bad except that some of the most entertaining things to do in EvE are even more fun when done in a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser. It's galling to pay many, many times the cost of that ship for every (inevitable) loss.
I do it anyway, but the fact is that it is a highly annoying deterent to having otherwise inexpensive fun... and inexpensive fun should be a viable option no matter how old and experienced your character is.
Now don't get me wrong, other costly bits when you die such as the better implants, should stay as they are. They are a completely voluntary enhancement to your character. Your clone cost is not something you can control, unless you choose to give up skills that you spent perhaps months training... which I don't view as very reasonable.
I'd gladly harvest bio mass in my spare time for the option to have a BP to build my own clones (of various types) and even sell them at competetive rates on the market... although I'd prbably have to work a good Soylent Green pun into the process somehow.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
74
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 23:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Your clone cost is not something you can control, unless you choose to give up skills that you spent perhaps months training... which I don't view as very reasonable.
But it is viewed as very reasonable to expect you to be ok with losing a ship that you spent months playing to get the ISK to buy or to manufacture.
|
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
87
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 02:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:lol, the amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding.
"You started playing the game earlier than me, so **** you, deal with the clone costs."
Yeah, cause a mechanic that punishes people for staying loyal to the game and discourages PVP is a good mechanic.
Malcanis, I really wouldn't want this guy advertising for me.  |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Your clone cost is not something you can control, unless you choose to give up skills that you spent perhaps months training... which I don't view as very reasonable.
But it is viewed as very reasonable to expect you to be ok with losing a ship that you spent months playing to get the ISK to buy or to manufacture.
You aren't forced to carry that ship with you regardless of whatever else you may be flying. If SP loss was limited to anything in excess of that which was being used just short of podding those would be the same. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
94
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 03:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
I agree with the OP, reason being CCP wont change is money, specifically PLEX. Greed has taken hold and wont let go. Dont expect any changes or sympathy from CCP. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
3527
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 08:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:lol, the amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding.
"You started playing the game earlier than me, so **** you, deal with the clone costs."
Yeah, cause a mechanic that punishes people for staying loyal to the game and discourages PVP is a good mechanic. Malcanis, I really wouldn't want this guy advertising for me.
What makes you think his opinion on the subject is any different?
Malcanis for CSM 8
Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
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