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Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 50	Posted - 2013.01.22 17:00:00 - [1] - Quote I recall seeing a dev post at one point stating that they were looking at the clone costs for higher-end clones. I haven't really seen anything about it since, and clone costs have been the primary reason why I never roam around in cheap, disposable ships anymore. While I may have been around a long time, my income has not markedly improved over my years in EVE, and the cost of my clone has become rather prohibitive.
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.22 17:26:00 - [2] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1658	Posted - 2013.01.22 17:44:00 - [3] - Quote How about we reverse the costs on clones. The lower the clone grade, the MORE expensive it is. New players shell out 150mil for each clone popped, and 10yo bittervets should get free clones. problems solved, eve is left with only bittervets to populate its space. will the last titan out please turn off the servers? *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Tom Gerard Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan 783	Posted - 2013.01.22 17:55:00 - [4] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: How about we reverse the costs on clones. The lower the clone grade, the MORE expensive it is. New players shell out 150mil for each clone popped, and 10yo bittervets should get free clones. problems solved, eve is left with only bittervets to populate its space. will the last titan out please turn off the servers? In no way was this the subject of discussion. Your post reveals that you lack the gleam of intelligence required to be a forum troll, therefore I assume you lack the education to process the information. As friendly internet traveler I suggest you consider: Reading Comprehension http://www.phx.devry.edu/samplereadingcomprehensionquestions.html DeVry will sort you out, they offer 8 week sessions and the next one is opening in only 6 weeks, so register now! (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 486	Posted - 2013.01.22 18:03:00 - [5] - Quote Demolishar wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Dumbest thing ever. -á-á-á-á-á-á / \|__\|-á-á-á This is a tears cup, fill it ! Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++
Sal Landry School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 29	Posted - 2013.01.22 18:09:00 - [6] - Quote Oh the trials and tribulations of having massive amounts of SP... think of the 1%!
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1966	Posted - 2013.01.22 18:45:00 - [7] - Quote Sal Landry wrote: Oh the trials and tribulations of having massive amounts of SP... think of the 1%! Having a massive amount of SP doesn't make isk grinding much faster than basic skills. At-least not at the exponential rate of clone cost increase. Plus most SP is situational, it allows for more avenues to interact with the game, yet you can only interact via so many methods at once. Once past 54m SP, which happens to be just about the 3 year retention mark. The bang for the buck in t1 frigs and cruisers starts to spiral sharpy as you always have to pay for the next grade higher. Specially if you die quite often due to bubbles or simply CCPs awful latency during the ship transfer in podding. With just leads to even more grinding. Punishing old pvpers who play the longest with more pve time. Or its just a ploy to force long standing hooked customers to plex more often as they think those that have been playing for that long will not leave for any reason. That or it makes them create alternate accounts supported by large SP highsec dwelling ex-mains because that's where the safest money is right? They had more avenues for sinks to lighten the load of clone costs such as bounty concord taxes and activation and claiming of killrights in highsec not lowsec. Yet they didn't go for these obvious small sinks which would add up over time. And leaving new modules as drops only are lost sinks when bpc LP store versions could add to sinks. Dusters should at least help drain some isk yet they have yet to ever revisit their old archaic ratios.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 170	Posted - 2013.01.22 20:19:00 - [8] - Quote The next clone cost adjustment will happen when enough older pvp players stop training their characters due to clone costs. Since apparently most players are lurkers and don't pvp much, or have an empire alt to train instead, that might be awhile. I do find myself weighing clone cost when I decided to use my main pvp char or alt pvp char at times. Maybe that was the intent. Only use what you can afford to lose. Edit: And buy a second account from power of 2 to train a pvp alt when you main gets too much sp.
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 383	Posted - 2013.01.22 20:22:00 - [9] - Quote My sign says it all. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.
ITTigerClawIK Galactic Rangers R O G U E 173	Posted - 2013.01.23 07:42:00 - [10] - Quote i have to admit, i really dont like shelling out an extra 35 mill after going out in a cheap ship for some fights to pay an extra 35 mill for a new clone, not that i get podded that often of course.
Ris Dnalor Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 432	Posted - 2013.01.23 07:52:00 - [11] - Quote Wrayeth wrote: I recall seeing a dev post at one point stating that they were looking at the clone costs for higher-end clones. I haven't really seen anything about it since, and clone costs have been the primary reason why I never roam around in cheap, disposable ships anymore. While I may have been around a long time, my income has not markedly improved over my years in EVE, and the cost of my clone has become rather prohibitive. you get a free clone, every time your pod is destroyed. If you don't want to pay for a clone upgrade that will preserve all your skillpoints, then don't. After your pod gets destroyed a few times your cost for that clone upgrade will become cheaper. Problem solved. No need for CCP to waste yet more manpower considering how best to mollycoddle folks. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961 EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody - Qolde
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 293	Posted - 2013.01.23 09:29:00 - [12] - Quote Roguelike games from the past simply took X percentage out of your wallet. It was a great incentive to not sit on your money.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 51	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:26:00 - [13] - Quote Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Roguelike games from the past simply took X percentage out of your wallet. It was a great incentive to not sit on your money. This could be easily gamed just by focusing on having lots of assets and keeping your wallet small. Besides, it's not like my wallet has lots of ISK in it, anyway. In regards to the original question, would a passing dev care to respond, even if it's just "we're still looking at it but don't have anything concrete that we can share"?
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3460	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:30:00 - [14] - Quote lol, the amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding. "You started playing the game earlier than me, so **** you, deal with the clone costs." Yeah, cause a mechanic that punishes people for staying loyal to the game and discourages PVP is a good mechanic. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm Want to enable BBcode on the forums? Here's how.
Dr No Game Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 49	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote Just curious - I notice when passing through FW systems that upgraded system offer a discount on medical costs. I'm sure it wouldn't be the most convenient arrangement, but could high-SP characters not take advantage of this to lower their costs? (iirc the discount can be up to 40+% which is significant when you're getting up to the 100's of millions of ISK)
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 51	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:51:00 - [16] - Quote Dr No Game wrote: Just curious - I notice when passing through FW systems that upgraded system offer a discount on medical costs. I'm sure it wouldn't be the most convenient arrangement, but could high-SP characters not take advantage of this to lower their costs? (iirc the discount can be up to 40+% which is significant when you're getting up to the 100's of millions of ISK) The problem with this is that, if the opposing faction takes the system, you lose access to your clone. As such, IIRC, you get shunted somewhere else when you die, losing skillpoints.
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:52:00 - [17] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Demolishar wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Dumbest thing ever. Characters are just another commodity. In real life if you owned some sports car and suddenly ran out of money to run it, what would you do? Oh of course, YOU'd scream to the government to reduce fuel prices and refuse to ever drive again until they do. Everyone else with common sense would buy a smaller, more economical car that they can afford to run.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3461	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:56:00 - [18] - Quote Demolishar wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Demolishar wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Dumbest thing ever. Characters are just another commodity. In real life if you owned some sports car and suddenly ran out of money to run it, what would you do? Oh of course, YOU'd scream to the government to reduce fuel prices and refuse to ever drive again until they do. Everyone else with common sense would sell it (to someone with the cash to buy it and run it), and buy a smaller, more economical car that they can afford to run. What's the point of this analogy? It doesn't apply at all. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm Want to enable BBcode on the forums? Here's how.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 51	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:57:00 - [19] - Quote Sorry, no interest in selling my character. My character is my history and reputation within EVE (such as they are). Moreover, after using the character for 9 years, I've kind of grown attached. Finally, I like being able to do all of the many different things this toon is capable of. I just find the exponential ramp-up in clone costs prohibitive, especially since I can only use something like 30% of those skillpoints at any given time.
ElQuirko Protus Correction Facility Inc. 1016	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:29:00 - [20] - Quote Tom Gerard wrote: In no way was this the subject of discussion. Your post reveals that you lack the gleam of intelligence required to be a forum troll, therefore I assume you lack the education to process the information. As friendly internet traveler I suggest you consider: Reading Comprehension http://www.phx.devry.edu/samplereadingcomprehensionquestions.html DeVry will sort you out, they offer 8 week sessions and the next one is opening in only 6 weeks, so register now! Biggest piece of sh*tposting I've ever seen. The terrible attempt at sarcastic humour could've ended after "subject of discussion". You, sir, get an award. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:30:00 - [21] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Demolishar wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Demolishar wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Dumbest thing ever. Characters are just another commodity. In real life if you owned some sports car and suddenly ran out of money to run it, what would you do? Oh of course, YOU'd scream to the government to reduce fuel prices and refuse to ever drive again until they do. Everyone else with common sense would sell it (to someone with the cash to buy it and run it), and buy a smaller, more economical car that they can afford to run. What's the point of this analogy? It doesn't apply at all. Clone cost = running cost/ fuel. Char = car.
Elvis Fett Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 188	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:37:00 - [22] - Quote Demolishar wrote: Clone cost = running cost/ fuel. Char = car. What kind of sports car do you know that takes fuel that costs 1000x more than regular fuel? OP it is a dumb mechanic. Although I am relatively low SP and my clones are cheap, I feel for you. High SP doesn't mean you have a lot of isk, I know plenty of rich low SP characters and broke high SP characters. So hopefully CCP will fix it, but in the meantime come play in FW. Not only are there more fights here then anywhere else, we're low sec so you shouldn't be losing any pods. The only problem with little pod loss comes lots of people running very expensive pods, so yeah you got to fight those.
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:53:00 - [23] - Quote Demolishar wrote: High SP doesn't mean you have a lot of isk Yes, it does. It's simply tied up in a certain asset, which you can easily sell.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 51	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:08:00 - [24] - Quote Demolishar wrote: Demolishar wrote: High SP doesn't mean you have a lot of isk Yes, it does. It's simply tied up in a certain asset, which you can easily sell. If you're talking about the character as an asset, I don't view the character as such. As I've said before, my character is my history and reputation within EVE. In a sense, my character is me. I'm not going to sell myself. In short, not everyone is an alt-aholic. Not everyone wants to use a different character. This is the character I started with, and I'm going to hold on to it until someone pries it from my cold, dead hands. My character is not an "asset."
Stegas Tyrano GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy 150	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:17:00 - [25] - Quote Give players the ability to produce their own clones. Add it as a POS module. [PROPOSAL] INGAME ADVERTS FOR PLAYERS
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:23:00 - [26] - Quote Wrayeth wrote: Demolishar wrote: Demolishar wrote: High SP doesn't mean you have a lot of isk Yes, it does. It's simply tied up in a certain asset, which you can easily sell. If you're talking about the character as an asset, I don't view the character as such. As I've said before, my character is my history and reputation within EVE. In a sense, my character is me. I'm not going to sell myself. In short, not everyone is an alt-aholic. Not everyone wants to use a different character. This is the character I started with, and I'm going to hold on to it until someone pries it from my cold, dead hands. My character is not an "asset." I have a unit of tritanium. I've had it for a long time. I care about it. I love it. I take it everywhere with me. I'm going to hold onto it until someone pries it from my cold, dead hands. My unit of tritanium is not an "asset."
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 51	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:30:00 - [27] - Quote Demolishar wrote: [quote=Wrayeth][quote=Demolishar] I have a unit of tritanium. I've had it for a long time. I care about it. I love it. I take it everywhere with me. I'm going to hold onto it until someone pries it from my cold, dead hands. My unit of tritanium is not an "asset." While that's your prerogative, I would point out that that unit of tritanium does not represent your entire existence in EVE. It has not been the means through which you interact with the cluster. It is not the face your friends and enemies know you by. It is not something you've been progressively customizing over a decade. In short, that unit of tritanium is not "you".
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 362	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:44:00 - [28] - Quote Demolishar wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Cant tell if you are serious or trolling. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 18:51:00 - [29] - Quote Wrayeth wrote: Demolishar wrote: [quote=Wrayeth][quote=Demolishar] I have a unit of tritanium. I've had it for a long time. I care about it. I love it. I take it everywhere with me. I'm going to hold onto it until someone pries it from my cold, dead hands. My unit of tritanium is not an "asset." While that's your prerogative, I would point out that that unit of tritanium does not represent your entire existence in EVE. It has not been the means through which you interact with the cluster. It is not the face your friends and enemies know you by. It is not something you've been progressively customizing over a decade. In short, that unit of tritanium is not "you". Most people I know don't even own their original character any more.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3471	Posted - 2013.01.23 19:38:00 - [30] - Quote Demolishar wrote: Wrayeth wrote: Demolishar wrote: [quote=Wrayeth][quote=Demolishar] I have a unit of tritanium. I've had it for a long time. I care about it. I love it. I take it everywhere with me. I'm going to hold onto it until someone pries it from my cold, dead hands. My unit of tritanium is not an "asset." While that's your prerogative, I would point out that that unit of tritanium does not represent your entire existence in EVE. It has not been the means through which you interact with the cluster. It is not the face your friends and enemies know you by. It is not something you've been progressively customizing over a decade. In short, that unit of tritanium is not "you". Most people I know don't even own their original character any more. Thread over, your anecdotal experience trumps everything, clearly. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 19:44:00 - [31] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Thread over, your anecdotal experience trumps everything, clearly. If we're ignoring everything but the completely objective: Characters are a commodity, and my original point stands.
Jantunen the Infernal O C C U P Y 102	Posted - 2013.01.23 19:47:00 - [32] - Quote I don't even have much SP and I still think that clone costs need to be reduced. Atleast maybe add a new extremely high rank skill to reduce them by a certain percentage so that those who wish for cheaper clones can spend their valuable time and SP on acquiring it, when those who don't can just focus on more important everyday skills and come out ahead in that area.
Demolishar United Aggression 742	Posted - 2013.01.23 19:48:00 - [33] - Quote Jantunen the Infernal wrote: Atleast maybe add a new extremely high rank skill to reduce them by a certain percentage so that those who wish for cheaper clones can spend their valuable time and SP on acquiring it. This is an awesome and deliciously ironic idea.
Alaekessa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 84	Posted - 2013.01.23 20:05:00 - [34] - Quote I am currently in an Omicron, though I do plan on getting into much more expensive clones eventually. If it gets fixed before I get there, I'll be appreciative. TBH, I'd like it if we could get comparatively low cost BPOs and then mass produce ourselves through PI and corpse collecting. Only other question I really have is why is it that pods are only worth 1m unless the clone inside them had implants? If I manage to pod an Upsilon why don't I get credit for the clone on the kill report? C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust.....
Tramp Oline District of Power 5	Posted - 2013.01.23 20:06:00 - [35] - Quote Give us a skill to reduce clone costs and make our standing with the owner of the station with the medical facility reduce it even more. The way refining costs work.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 295	Posted - 2013.01.23 22:03:00 - [36] - Quote Wrayeth wrote: Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Roguelike games from the past simply took X percentage out of your wallet. It was a great incentive to not sit on your money. This could be easily gamed just by focusing on having lots of assets and keeping your wallet small. Besides, it's not like my wallet has lots of ISK in it, anyway. In regards to the original question, would a passing dev care to respond, even if it's just "we're still looking at it but don't have anything concrete that we can share"? Completely true, especially with this economic model where it's smarter to invest then to let it sit anyway. Personally after your ship has died and you have lost your implants, I think a player has been punished enough. To throw an economic sanction on top... what is this, Dark Souls!? So far no-one has been able to provide me with a satifying answer to the question why these costs exist in the first place, apart from it's an ISK sink. This topic offers, again, a chance to plainly ask what are they for? Excuse me my stupidity if the answer is so obvious I'm just looking past it.
Katran Luftschreck Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps 754	Posted - 2013.01.23 22:04:00 - [37] - Quote Flat rate jump-clones for cheap & remove the 24 hour transfer throttle. Make jump clones cost 100,000ISK and make the transfer time just one hour. That would shift a lot of people from a mindset of PvP phobia into one of PvP eagerness. Because OP is right - after a certain point your pod is your most expensive component. EvE Forum Bingo
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 939	Posted - 2013.01.23 22:14:00 - [38] - Quote If a player wishes to pvp at BC ship level or below (all races) for most of his/her game time, what would be the optimal number of skill points to train, before stopping to keep clone costs at the minimum level needed to cover said skill points? This is not a signature.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 494	Posted - 2013.01.23 22:15:00 - [39] - Quote Demolishar wrote: Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Demolishar wrote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277 Sell your char, buy a lower SP char, get lower clone costs AND a nice lump sum left over as well. Dumbest thing ever. Characters are just another commodity. In real life if you owned some sports car and suddenly ran out of money to run it, what would you do? Unlike the random pawn I just don't do things because mu humor depends on day's weather and I don't have the feeling owning superficial goods make of me someone better. So sorry but I can't understand this sports car thing because in my mind when you need this kind of stuff you have some deeper personal/identity issue to solve than you sports car problem. Quote: Oh of course, YOU'd scream to the government to reduce fuel prices and refuse to ever drive again until they do. No I'm on the side who's looking at [insert whatever automobile manufacturer] and other useless actors and sees the truth little people want to face: you don't need them for nothing, absolutely nothing they can do will ever convince me I need them to improve my self or my life style, but THEY need cheep and brainless minds for sure. I like original, respectable and responsible people so sorry once again, but this example is not talking to me at any level. Quote: Everyone else with common sense would sell it (to someone with the cash to buy it and run it), and buy a smaller, more economical car that they can afford to run. Well again, you're talking about Eve pixels like those were worth of anything else than the personal appreciation you give to them. You might see them as some way of whatever fake, unpersonalized internet pixels worth of whatever value. To me it's only worth of how much time I'm willing to pay for my subscription and the day come where it worth nothing, it goes down the toilet like every single unworthy thing I've ever done or got because I could. To bring this more on the OP line of discussion, it's simply idiot to sell the character you put in so much effort because at some point whatever rule or game mechanic pushed the idiocy point at levels beyond all logic. Well bring logic to eve is a mistake I'm aware of that, but at this single point here I can safely say Eve is worth of nothing if improving your character to be able to explore all the areas of Eve gaming requires you to become stupid. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2534	Posted - 2013.01.23 22:55:00 - [40] - Quote CCP needs to remove clone costs and the goofy standings requirements for jump clones in high sec. Both are a barrier for high-risk PVP behavior. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Arronicus Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made. 116	Posted - 2013.01.23 23:00:00 - [41] - Quote Just going to point out clones are 50% off if you buy them in a FW upgraded system, even if you aren't in FW. So, they're half whatever youre paying now. Just go do that, and stop bitching about it hurting to be an older player. If anything, your clone cost should be justification to fit out those cheap ships more expensively.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 494	Posted - 2013.01.23 23:06:00 - [42] - Quote Arronicus wrote: Just going to point out clones are 50% off if you buy them in a FW upgraded system, even if you aren't in FW. So, they're half whatever youre paying now. Just go do that, and stop bitching about it hurting to be an older player. If anything, your clone cost should be justification to fit out those cheap ships more expensively. Well if idiocy deserved to make clones be more expensive, many players would pay billions for 10million sp characters... You can't be serious can you? Gò¡Gê¬Gò«n+ên+¦n++n+¦n+ëGò¡Gê¬Gò«-á don't haten++
Zaraz Zaraz Imperial Planetology Academy 74	Posted - 2013.01.23 23:09:00 - [43] - Quote I thought people playing this game loved the cold harsh reality of risk vs reward and would get a huge thrill out of high SP clones being enormously expensive! What a rush, pvping and risking having to spend so much isk on a replacement! Whooosh! or maybe not?
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 589	Posted - 2013.01.24 07:42:00 - [44] - Quote I don't get it. Couldn't you just not buy the clone? You get one for free you know. You'll lose a bit of SP, but it seems ISK is more precious than SP in your position....
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution 54	Posted - 2013.01.24 08:08:00 - [45] - Quote My clone costs 45 mil empty (i.e. no implants). You can buy a brand, spanking new battlecruiser for that. So yeah, cost comes into it when it starts to break the bank. In regards to losing skillpoints, just...no. If I didn't want those skillpoints, I would've stopped training a long time ago.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 4029	Posted - 2013.01.24 08:13:00 - [46] - Quote Zaraz Zaraz wrote: I thought people playing this game loved the cold harsh reality of risk vs reward and would get a huge thrill out of high SP clones being enormously expensive! What a rush, pvping and risking having to spend so much isk on a replacement! Whooosh! or maybe not? It's supposed to be a choice. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose and all that. With clone cost you'll get extra costs just because you have played longer regardless of what you fly, how you fit it or what implants you use. It turns a simple frigate loss to a potential grind to replace when replacing it should be almost effortless for everyone. Alternatively it makes people increasingly avoid fighting where there is a high risk of getting podded. This is all generally speaking. If you're space rich, you don't give a damn about clone costs, but that isn't the norm and doesn't change the pressure the mechanic puts on player behavior. So what is this reward I'm getting for the extra cost of medical clones? It hasn't increased my income for years and I've trained almost all relevant skills to 5 too long ago, so it isn't combat performance either. It's just punishing veteran players and long time loyal customers for no particular reason. At best you could say, that I'm paying the price in order to be more versatile, but that is more of a last desperate attempt to defend the current system, then it is a solid reasoning for having the system in the first place. I've said it long ago, that the system doesn't make much sense and causes problems, but the problem isn't acute enough to warrant a fix until enough vocal players reach those high SP levels. It'll happen at some point though, sooner or later.
Spurty V0LTA Verge of Collapse 750	Posted - 2013.01.24 14:27:00 - [47] - Quote Here's a better idea: you can't train if you're logged out or docked up or cloaked Now I'm off to find a wall to head butt --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. ****
Tom Gerard Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan 800	Posted - 2013.01.24 16:39:00 - [48] - Quote ElQuirko wrote: Tom Gerard wrote: In no way was this the subject of discussion. Your post reveals that you lack the gleam of intelligence required to be a forum troll, therefore I assume you lack the education to process the information. As friendly internet traveler I suggest you consider: Reading Comprehension http://www.phx.devry.edu/samplereadingcomprehensionquestions.html DeVry will sort you out, they offer 8 week sessions and the next one is opening in only 6 weeks, so register now! Biggest piece of sh*tposting I've ever seen. The terrible attempt at sarcastic humour could've ended after "subject of discussion". You, sir, get an award. U MAD BRO? Hey, I just met you... and this is crazy but you popped my Rifter, so don't pod me maybe?
Dave Stark 1670	Posted - 2013.01.24 17:41:00 - [49] - Quote here's a controversial idea; flat rate for clones after a reasonable level of SP as not to alienate new players. after say, a year's worth of SP which is what? ~15m sp? so keep the system as it is now, until you hit 15m sp, then after that have a flat rate for clones. still an isk sink, and it doesn't hurt your wallet if you get podded in an 8 year old character. "100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."
Demolishar United Aggression 743	Posted - 2013.01.24 17:42:00 - [50] - Quote Herr Wilkus wrote: I don't get it. Couldn't you just not buy the clone? You get one for free you know. You'll lose a bit of SP, but it seems ISK is more precious than SP in your position....
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 3397	Posted - 2013.01.24 18:24:00 - [51] - Quote I have to agree with Wray on this one. While I am the first to admit that there is a certain logic to better clones costing more... and in the grand scheme of things 45mil should not be a big hurdle to an older character on top of the normal cost of a PVP loss. However, what gets to me is that it makes it very, very difficult to justify using a cheap ship for... well anything actually. This wouldn't be that bad except that some of the most entertaining things to do in EvE are even more fun when done in a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser. It's galling to pay many, many times the cost of that ship for every (inevitable) loss. I do it anyway, but the fact is that it is a highly annoying deterent to having otherwise inexpensive fun... and inexpensive fun should be a viable option no matter how old and experienced your character is. Now don't get me wrong, other costly bits when you die such as the better implants, should stay as they are. They are a completely voluntary enhancement to your character. Your clone cost is not something you can control, unless you choose to give up skills that you spent perhaps months training... which I don't view as very reasonable. I'd gladly harvest bio mass in my spare time for the option to have a BP to build my own clones (of various types) and even sell them at competetive rates on the market... although I'd prbably have to work a good Soylent Green pun into the process somehow. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base.
Zaraz Zaraz Imperial Planetology Academy 74	Posted - 2013.01.24 23:11:00 - [52] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Your clone cost is not something you can control, unless you choose to give up skills that you spent perhaps months training... which I don't view as very reasonable. But it is viewed as very reasonable to expect you to be ok with losing a ship that you spent months playing to get the ISK to buy or to manufacture.
Not Politically Correct Veerhouven Ventures 87	Posted - 2013.01.25 02:17:00 - [53] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: lol, the amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding. "You started playing the game earlier than me, so **** you, deal with the clone costs." Yeah, cause a mechanic that punishes people for staying loyal to the game and discourages PVP is a good mechanic. Malcanis, I really wouldn't want this guy advertising for me.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 602	Posted - 2013.01.25 03:05:00 - [54] - Quote Zaraz Zaraz wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: Your clone cost is not something you can control, unless you choose to give up skills that you spent perhaps months training... which I don't view as very reasonable. But it is viewed as very reasonable to expect you to be ok with losing a ship that you spent months playing to get the ISK to buy or to manufacture. You aren't forced to carry that ship with you regardless of whatever else you may be flying. If SP loss was limited to anything in excess of that which was being used just short of podding those would be the same.
bongsmoke School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 94	Posted - 2013.01.25 03:08:00 - [55] - Quote I agree with the OP, reason being CCP wont change is money, specifically PLEX. Greed has taken hold and wont let go. Dont expect any changes or sympathy from CCP.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3527	Posted - 2013.01.25 08:31:00 - [56] - Quote Not Politically Correct wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: lol, the amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding. "You started playing the game earlier than me, so **** you, deal with the clone costs." Yeah, cause a mechanic that punishes people for staying loyal to the game and discourages PVP is a good mechanic. Malcanis, I really wouldn't want this guy advertising for me. What makes you think his opinion on the subject is any different? Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm

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