| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lythius Arcturnus
   |
Posted - 2005.07.03 20:00:00 -
[1]
I feel an obligation to pass on this information as a result of my recent misfortune.
This information is not available in the game anywhere unless someone tells you or you learn from experience.
After you set up a POS, when an enemy comes near your POS, the "locking range" of your tower will determine whether or not your guns fire at the opponent depending on how far from the POS they are. Even if your guns have a 225 KM range, with a medium tower your guns will only activate if the opponent comes closer than about 189KM. 20 BS's can kill your POS in about a day without your guns ever firing a shot if your opponents fit their ships with long range guns and stay outside the "locking range" of your tower. Some say this is intentional to make POS's killable, others think its an oversight in the games design. You can choose whichever you like.
The ranges are (to the best of my knowledge)...
Small tower= 150ish KM
Medium Tower= 189ish KM
Large tower 250ish KM
You can see why a large tower is the only tower that offers any real hope of defense. I have heard its possible for some ship setups to still shoot from outside a large towers locking range, however from that distance the guns don't do enough damage to really make a dent, and the added HP of a large POS's tower would also add more protection.
This information is not shown in the towers "show info" window, and there is no in-game indictation of this. All the guides I read before setting up my POS talked about how only 100's of battleships could destroy a POS. This is not correct at all. That only applies to a large tower.
I have my own opinions on the issue, but I want to keep this post purely informative so people don't have to waste their time and money finding out something that should already have been made clear before hand.
I hope this information helps some people avoid nasty situations.
|
Mis Exodus
|
Posted - 2005.07.03 20:05:00 -
[2]
wel if this is true then ccp needs to ad that info into tower info now.
thats very important to know
|
Lythius Arcturnus
|
Posted - 2005.07.03 20:17:00 -
[3]
My reaction exactly :)
|
Dark Shikari
|
Posted - 2005.07.03 20:39:00 -
[4]
This is why you don't put a small or medium tower in contested territory. If its not in contested territory, it should be easy to defend.
--
Dark Shikari: POS Consultant!
Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required! |
Ravenal
|
Posted - 2005.07.03 21:32:00 -
[5]
sensor boosting modules please...
...new sig coming up
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Septh Mac
|
Posted - 2005.07.03 22:01:00 -
[6]
This is very important info, that needs to be writen somewhere, i have a small tower n wasnt aware of this, now i'm gona have to upgrade it
|
Jessa
|
Posted - 2005.07.03 22:21:00 -
[7]
The idea I think, is that you do not rely solely on your POS defenses to defend your starbase.
The power of the sentries combined with the POS range gives conventional seige groups a very limited choice in how they attack the starbase. Just because the guns can not hit them does not mean that you can not defend against their assault, you just need to attack them.
Ive read your other posts on this and for the large part you're just whining, CCP designed the starbases with alliances and corps in mind defeding and attacking their assets and your entire argument so far has been "this is unfair because my POS cant fight off the attackers on its own". You have to be prepaired to defend your assets if you're going to put them in a position where they will be vounerable to attack.
As for the infosheet I do agree it could do with alot more information regarding the control tower etc, or at least a clarification from CCP about how they are supposed to work. There is alot of mixed feelings in the playerbase about this kind of thing and like in your case it has ended up with one party accusing the other of exploiting the game mechanics when they may or may not have been doing so.
When me and my m8's took down the small POS we stayed out of its locking range aswell, and like other people have stated they've done the same without any action from CCP, which suggests it isnt a bug or an exploit at all, just a lack of information. Invariably the owner of any POS that is attacked will complain that their adversaries are exploiting or not playing fair if they do not meet the owners personal criteria of how their starbase should be attacked, its the same kind of attitude people have towards pirates when they get ganked, I doubt any clarification will change that much tbh.
|
Lythius Arcturnus
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 00:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 04/07/2005 00:18:54
Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 04/07/2005 00:17:55
Don't criticize my whining in another post in this post Jessa. This post is purely informative. I just wanted to pass along need to know information to people who might not have it.
But by all means feel free to criticize me in the other thread :)
I still think its broke though. Lets look at how many BS's it takes to kill the different size towers in a day....
Small= 15
Medium= 20
Large= 300
Not exactly linear is it.
|
Moominer
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 00:38:00 -
[9]
This "feature" becoming common knowledge alongside the changes to locking targets whilst inside the POS bubble and alongside the introduction of dreadnoughts, small and medium POS setups are now incredibly vulnerable to anything other than decent sized corporations or alliances.
This coming patch will see POS becoming one of the most important aspects of 0.0 territorial control. I am quite dissapointed this is happening before many POS issues (including better manageable access) have been resolved.
There is a massive disparity between the lock ranges of POS towers and the guns they are apparently designed to fire at:
Railgun Battery: 225o+105f = 330km
Beam Laser Battery: 210o+90f = 300km
Artillery Battery: 180o+150f = 330km
Cruise Missile Battery: 324km
Amarr, Minmatar have a 50% bonus to optimal range putting them at 405km and 420km total range respectivly without even considering any range-enhancing ammo! Caldari CTs have a 50% bonus to missile velocity putting them at a whopping 567km range with Cruise batteries.
It is utterly missleading to have defence batteries with range attributes like these and then cap a "lock range" attribute that isnt even visible, there are many, many small and medium POS owners who will be unaware of this who must be made aware of it prior to Tuesdays patch.
|
Attiladehun
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 09:34:00 -
[10]
just a little note about youre post of destroying a pos in one day.
Lets see we were with 20+ snipers shooting a medium pos, we started friday and destroyed sunday. That's euhm exactly 1day indeed -_-, now serious it has 17M shield hp where people have to sit at long range with low dmg ammo and like low dmg on it. It doesn't take 1day it takes more since you have reinforced mode too, but that depends on how much stuff you put in the pos. It takes more then 1day maybe 2days if you don't take reinforced in it. But man 2 damn days for 30people non-stop shooting a damn medium pos bleh and you are complaining?
At some point i can understand youre critisisme about the lockrange of a pos, but we didn't knew it either we only found out on trying another pos therefor we knew where to engage, but still even youre 189km is not right either, we have had a destroyed ship 190k+ at some other pos no idea how it came and still no idea how it is. So pos are rather strange atm and ye without the info about pos lock range you should have gotten or looked into that matter before.
A bs can't shoot his target before locking it either eh, it works the same way maybe ccp will add something like target array (increasing lockrange) dunno if it's for this patch haven't looked into that matter.
Besides in my opinion a pos is rather cheap then expensive, it should be more expensive then a few bs.
|
Lythius Arcturnus
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 11:30:00 -
[11]
It would only take about one day with 20 BS's to kill a small or medium POS if the attack was co-ordinated correctly.
The first couple days you guys let your numbers dwindle at night down to 10 or 11 people and the shield was actually recharging.
20 BS's going at it for a solid day could do it easily.
|
Dahin
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 13:21:00 -
[12]
WHAT????
We found and shot a small tower defended with a mix of med/small rails/lasers. And we were getting shot through the whole time.
Do you actually tell me that if we moved to X km we could shoot it without getting shot???
|
Dahins alt
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 13:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dahins alt on 04/07/2005 13:22:56
 Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus
It would only take about one day with 20 BS's to kill a small or medium POS if the attack was co-ordinated correctly.
The first couple days you guys let your numbers dwindle at night down to 10 or 11 people and the shield was actually recharging.
20 BS's going at it for a solid day could do it easily.
It takes 2-3hrs for 6-10 bs to put a small pos into reinforced.
Then it took 6-7hrs with a damn armada to completely wipe it when it had the defenders in it :(
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 13:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus
You can see why a large tower is the only tower that offers any real hope of defense. I have heard its possible for some ship setups to still shoot from outside a large towers locking range,
1 sniper APOC + 2 tracking link scorps are by
(1+0.075*16+0.15*8)*100km=340km
It looks to me that running a POS ist not meant to be a one man show.
--
$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
|
Lythius Arcturnus
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 14:02:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 04/07/2005 14:03:05
Edited by: Lythius Arcturnus on 04/07/2005 14:02:13
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus
You can see why a large tower is the only tower that offers any real hope of defense. I have heard its possible for some ship setups to still shoot from outside a large towers locking range,
1 sniper APOC + 2 tracking link scorps are by
(1+0.075*16+0.15*8)*100km=340km
It looks to me that running a POS ist not meant to be a one man show.
Well, I can't speak for the developers, but I can tell you that a TON of POS's are one man shows, so if they aren't meant to be then expect T2 prices to stay pretty high for a long time to come.
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 14:31:00 -
[16]
I remeber a tec 2 prodder told us in ships and fittings that they tried to sell cap recharger II for 8MISK. Some ppl bought all of them and reentered them into the market for 13MISK. As long as players are able to spend that money they will stay at that price.
I kept some tec 2 build items from agent missions because i thought i would make a nice profit after the agent nerf. That was a bad mistake. Prices are so low now that i will most prob. trash them when i clean my assests next time.
I'm not realy sure why you mantioned prices for tec 2 modules but you are plain simply wrong.
--
$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
|
Lythius Arcturnus
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 14:52:00 -
[17]
Fine, im wrong. Have a happy day now :)
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 15:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus
Fine, im wrong. Have a happy day now :)
Sadly I don't. I joined a small corp a while befor to learn more about POS. And as more I learn as more do i get a clear picture of the future. Small corps will loose there money to pirats (I have a great respect for pirates. There life is not easy and it's hard to fill that role. And yes someone has to because we play a role playing game.) who catch there haulers. Mega Corps building tec 2 items will be forced to set up there own POSes and prices will even more drop.
Hopefully COSMOS will help here.
--
$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
|
Karazaan
|
Posted - 2005.07.04 16:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus
Fine, im wrong. Have a happy day now :)
Sadly I don't. I joined a small corp a while befor to learn more about POS. And as more I learn as more do i get a clear picture of the future. Small corps will loose there money to pirats (I have a great respect for pirates. There life is not easy and it's hard to fill that role. And yes someone has to because we play a role playing game.) who catch there haulers. Mega Corps building tec 2 items will be forced to set up there own POSes and prices will even more drop.
Hopefully COSMOS will help here.
Oh well, I guessed it had to happen again, the BIG corps/alliances Doom (tm) argument. Why would small corp lose all their cash to pirate?
Why would mega corp if they setup their own pos bring the price down? Look the opposite to me.
I'm so curious if a nice devs could do a database query to see how many people (playing or not since small and big have dead meat equally I'm sure) are in corp with more than 100 members (again, alt included) and how many for corp with less than 100 all put together. |
Lythius Arcturnus
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 01:17:00 -
[20]
It looks as though this problem has been fixed in the patch.
All towers now show a line in show info that says "Activiation Proximity 250KM".
Looks like everything is fine now.
|
Strey Renim
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lythius Arcturnus
All towers now show a line in show info that says "Activiation Proximity 250KM".
Does this mean what it says (ie. every tower's targeting range has been changed to 250km), or do the towers now just show their unchanged previously stated targeting distances?
(I can't get in game for a long time now, s'why I'm asking. Thanks)
|
Dloan
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 07:52:00 -
[22]
I'd assume that all towers can now target at 250km. What was so confusing before was that guns had an activation proximity and, contrary to any other imformation, we could only assume that's the distance they would target and shoot.
|
Septh Mac
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 07:57:00 -
[23]
Yes all towers are the same now (250km)
|
Strey Renim
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 08:51:00 -
[24]
This is great news. I was a bit worried about setting up a small one, but now I can rest assured it won't be so easily blown up.
Thank you. |
Imhotep Khem
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 13:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dloan
I'd assume that all towers can now target at 250km. What was so confusing before was that guns had an activation proximity and, contrary to any other imformation, we could only assume that's the distance they would target and shoot.
Isint this the case? If you put a gun 20km to the back of your POS its going to have 20km sorter locking range than one placed in the front of your POS for objects located toward the front of your POS!?
____
If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Domalais
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 14:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Isint this the case? If you put a gun 20km to the back of your POS its going to have 20km sorter locking range than one placed in the front of your POS for objects located toward the front of your POS!?
No. The tower does all the locking. All you have to be worried about with the guns is the firing range, and that's usually more than enough.
|
Dionysus Davinci
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 14:55:00 -
[27]
What is activiation range? Because I found if you warp in at a 100kms now, a POS won't open fire (At least the small i found) till about 98 KMS.
|
Dloan
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 14:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
If you put a gun 20km to the back of your POS its going to have 20km sorter locking range than one placed in the front of your POS for objects located toward the front of your POS!?
True, but irrelevant, if your POS activation range is less than your gun activation range.
|
Com Cam
|
Posted - 2005.07.09 23:41:00 -
[29]
so is it possible to increase the tower activation range? or is 250km the best you will ever get with guns that can engage a target at much greater ranges. which cuts your guns to 250km also reguardless to what their stats say. this also kind of makes some of the tower bonuses useles (range bonus) or does it?
on another note, are the POS missile batteries worth the time / effort / isk to anchor and use? I ask this with the missile "adjustments" in mind. I have not been in game for a little while and will be out for a bit longer, but I am trying to keep up with what is going on until I can log in again.
"always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
|
Elise Masutra
|
Posted - 2005.07.10 11:02:00 -
[30]
big things still hit big targtes quite well, so u can do some good damage to BS or dreads with them
_________________________________________
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |