Requiring boosters be on grid is one of the most player upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall.
Yet it seems it didn't get much attention from the csm meeting:

That's because it's stupid to remove them. (Unless ofc, they allow the linky tech 3 cruisers to be supertanked, which will then get whined at).
Period

Removing offgrid boosters is a bad move, and will surely mean that they have to give some boost back to Solo/Small-Gang PvPers

I guess that's because really, CCP are a business, and will go with the masses to create the most profit. It's a shame to wave goodbye to such an adrenaline pumping, exciting game, and welcome this "Not-so-sandbox" they're slowly creating.

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts
2. Ancilliary Shield Boosters
3. Making blasters good again.

For that i'm thankful, however, for what we're about to recieve, I am not.

P.S. CCP, If 1 person could change your mind, DO NOT REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING. You're nerfing it enough already.
-Buhhd

Aren't T3 cruisers currently only good for 'solo' flying when you happen to own an OGB or two?

Removing offgrid boosters is a bad move, and will surely mean that they have to give some boost back to Solo/Small-Gang PvPers, otherwise they've just totally nerfed that mechanic even more, and EVE becomes much, much less of a "sandbox".
-Buhh

These boost allow small/Solo pilots the ability to engage those massive blobs people always complain about xD

Removing offgrid boosters is a bad move, and will surely mean that they have to give some boost back to Solo/Small-Gang PvPers, otherwise they've just totally nerfed that mechanic even more, and EVE becomes much, much less of a "sandbox".
-Buhh

Well, if it isn't going to be fixed I might as well move a couple booster alts into my FW world. :) If you see any unknown Lokis, Tengu's, or Absolution's in the Amarr war zone say Hi!

Solo/Small-gang pvpers already got big gift from CCP: cheap T1 logi ships.

Exactly this.

EVE is becoming ALTSONLINE.

They already plague low sec so much, I would have no idea which are yours. Pretty much you would be fool to pvp in low sec without your booster alt.

If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module?

/c

If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module?

/c

Eve became altsonline years ago matey.

Or I could argue that a Single pilot is controlling them all... Still Solo.

And anyway, We're talking about boosts, not ******* Falcon/Logi

It is quite possible that to do away with OGB they will have to rework how all "boosts" work, which may neccessitate exactly what you suggest.

It would be much preferable than the current situation. You want to boost a fleet? Be present at the battle.

As I've stated repeatedly restricting links to be on-field only is a bad idea. Fleets can't all always be on the same grid at the same time. If I'm part of a small gang chasing potential targets around the interceptors are going to need the benefit of skirmish gang links, but because they have different warp speeds there's two options here, neither of which are attractive at all: either the interceptor warps after the target alone and loses the fleet bonus, or it warps along with the boosting ship - while that ensures the interceptor will have the skirmish bonuses when they land, you're cutting the ceptor down to less than a quarter of its original warp speed and so chances are you won't be able to catch up with a target that's warped off ahead of you.

There are other problems with forcing links to be on field including the fact that the only way to get the best industrial bonuses is to use a several billion isk ship that's completely immobile and defenseless for five minute blocks of time - forcing the bonuses to be on grid won't bring the ship on grid, it will simply mean that the only reason anyone will ever use the industrial core is for compression jobs.

There are ways to solve the problem of invincible OGB ships - forcing all of them to be on grid is not one of the more comprehensive solutions.

I completely agree. I was just pointing out that Chribba may actually be unintentionally predicting the future.

Hmmm VISIBLE TITANS at gate camps .. lovely.

Titans for fleet boosting for gate camps is a common practice in lowsec?

Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:



In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.

Which supports the point that on grid boosting by no means equals instant death.

For the argument above discussing interceptors, they completely over look the fact that whomever those interceptors are hunting are also likely to not have boosters with them in most cases... so it's pretty much a wash between both groups.

I play solo and OGB makes life harder for me. I have fewer targets since I avoid known OGB "soloers". I don't OGB and I solo and I'm more or less a casual player and I'm against running 2 clients. I think most players feel this way. Yeah you have the hardcores who must have every advantage, but they're a vocal minority.

For truly solo players, OGB is bad and it kills solo gameplay. People wanting to keep OGB are the same people who defended OP stuff in the past (like ECM damps and the other billion things that have been balanced over the years), claiming that it was the only thing keeping them competitive.

That's not what keeps solo play competitive. It's casual players who don't check forums every day for the latest info on ____ so they're easier to kill using whatever happens to be OP at the moment. That doesn't make your small gang gameplay any more/less viable, you're just increasing your range of blobby targets based on the number of people who don't OGB.

Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.

Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.

I don't think boosting while sitting 400km away is kosher either. Boosting ships should be within target range. This would give the added benefit of harder to dual-box, which is always good in my book.

But hey, this is eve, if you want to dual-box and say you're solo, go right ahead. Just don't complain about "solo" gameplay dying out because people refuse to "1v1" you.

It supports the point that nerfing off-grid boosting changes less than they hope for and breaks more than they intend.

Yeah, because I'm sure things will get much easier for you when that boosting alt is sitting 400 km away, as opposed to some random safe spot.

imo they should at least add boosters to killmail or battle report or whatever they are called now

it would be a nice reference for intel and end the mystery of "true solo" )))

There is no reason to think that will happen any more often than the "solo" pvpers who bring in the logistics alt or falcon alts.

Yes it happens occassionally, but its really pretty rare.

I personally don't have any problem with a boosting ship trying it's best to sit on the far side of the grid from the enemy... it rather makes sense. At least the enemy knows what they are dealing with, and if they choose to try and drop probes to warp in on the boosting ship they have a bit easier time of it.

It will bring about (comparitive boosting strengths aside) a situation where Command Ships (set up with a heavy tank, or buffer to take advantage of a fleets logistics capability) are used primarily with big fleets, and T3 Cruisers are used more with small fast moving gangs using speed tanking and range to their advantage.

I view this as sensible and logical.

I guess that's because really, CCP are a business, and will go with the masses to create the most profit. It's a shame to wave goodbye to such an adrenaline pumping, exciting game, and welcome this "Not-so-sandbox" they're slowly creating.

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts
2. Ancilliary Shield Boosters
3. Making blasters good again.

For that i'm thankful, however, for what we're about to recieve, I am not.

P.S. CCP, If 1 person could change your mind, DO NOT REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING. You're nerfing it enough already.
P.P.S. Sorry for completely hi-jacking your thread OP.
-Buhhd

Reducing ganglink bonuses and increasing effectiveness in other ways
As I've said before, this is something we definitely want to do. Links are both too effective in their direct bonuses as well as their ability to be used off-grid. However getting this specific issue fixed is going to need to wait until after 1.1. Once we have the room to implement some changes to the way warfare links work from the ground up, expect changes to a lot of other modules and mechanics to happen at the same time.

Eve Online is a MassiveMultiplayerOnline game, not Solo Tetris Online.

OGB has to go away, it's a bad mechanic and since you're talking about sandbox where is the "consequence" for the POS kissing multimillion fit/implants booster alt?
-none, you can't get retribution, he's totally safe behind the POS shields providing overpowered boosts from 1m to 285 AU large system.

No idea, but my assumption is she's getting smacked in the face with a nerf bat. Just as my loki/legion/tengu/proteus/eos/claymore/damnation/vulture pilots are.

-Liang

While i agree that t3' boosts are OP at the moment, off grid boosting is not. It's been my general experience that the only people complaining about "off-grid" boosting are those that cant be bothered to take advantage of it themselves, or those that can't think for themselves and find a counter, off grid is a essential asset for smaller gangs to operate in this game where everything is becoming more risk adverse by the day.

It was my understanding that fleet command ships were getting a buff, as in getting bonuses to two types of boosts instead of one. Damnation for example would give the 3% bonus per level to armored and skirmish, Claymore to siege and skirmish, eos to information and armored, and vulture to information and siege (IIRC, the exact combinations may be different).

The T3s would get a 2% bonus per level to three types of boosts, so a Tengu could boost information, skirmish, and siege for example.

This is correct accordingly to latest information delivered by CCP devs

So apparently CCP Fozzie is not a CCP dev or a CCP game designer? I linked you to his post and quoted it here. Links are getting smacked in the face, both on grid and off. It sounds like the entire mechanics may change eventually.

-Liang

So apparently CCP Fozzie is not a CCP dev or a CCP game designer? I linked you to his post and quoted it here. Links are getting smacked in the face, both on grid and off. It sounds like the entire mechanics may change eventually.

-Liang

5% per level ship bonuses are getting removed from T3 boosting subsystems according to the changes I was talking about.
That probably qualifies as a smack in the face.

I guess that's because really, CCP are a business, and will go with the masses to create the most profit. It's a shame to wave goodbye to such an adrenaline pumping, exciting game, and welcome this "Not-so-sandbox" they're slowly creating.

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts
2. Ancilliary Shield Boosters
3. Making blasters good again.

For that i'm thankful, however, for what we're about to recieve, I am not.

P.S. CCP, If 1 person could change your mind, DO NOT REMOVE OFF GRID BOOSTING. You're nerfing it enough already.
P.P.S. Sorry for completely hi-jacking your thread OP.
-Buhhd

So apparently CCP Fozzie is not a CCP dev or a CCP game designer? I linked you to his post and quoted it here. Links are getting smacked in the face, both on grid and off. It sounds like the entire mechanics may change eventually.

-Liang

they should make a bubble effect about 100k radius if you are inside the bubble and in the same fleet you get the bonus, outside the bubble no bonus, maybe a falloff effect of 50k where you get diminished boost.

No, no, no. They should make it 25Km and reduce the tanking abilities of boosting ships so they can only fit a DCU. Better?

u mad about losing your OP toys?

Show me on the doll, where the bad booster touched you.

One thing is for sure. You're worrying that the on grid change, isn't going to work as you'd hoped and I have a feeling you'll be oh so mad when it arrives.

Too easy.

Not really.

-Liang

The technical limitation is simply that applying and comparing gang bonuses is an exponentially increasing computational load as participants increase in number. Loads like this are ultimately what end up limiting fleet fight sizes.

Adding a range check would make this section of each server tick much heavier, and certainly it would lower large fleet server performance measurably.

One thing is for sure. You're worrying that the on grid change, isn't going to work as you'd hoped and I have a feeling you'll be oh so mad when it arrives.

One thing is for sure. You're worrying that the on grid change, isn't going to work as you'd hoped and I have a feeling you'll be oh so mad when it arrives.

We all know there is no such thing as a fair fight in Eve.

IMHO the offgrid boosting is certainly a bit of a ***** tool, similarly to the guy shouting for 1v1 GFs with his cloaky falcon alt.

There is no difference.

I tried to find some pew the other day, just me on my own in an Omen.
Finally found a guy who immediately changed ship to a Tornado clumsily tried to get range to snipe and etc etc.
Obviosly that didnt work so went back to a stabber - probes cam out (why I was 100k off the station?) and before he dropped in the T3 undocks.
Seriouisly this is what solo PvP is about now?
Obviously I tipped my hat at the lady and left.

Its seems to me to be all about NO RISK whatever happens.
As soon as some obvious OP tactic gets nerfed they are out in droves defending their NO RISK PvP.

Some of the drivel on here is just painful to read - tldr "Dont nerf my I WIN button!!!"

As far as the technical issues surrounding this - and I dont prefer to be an expert on what will work for the game (like 99.9% of this Omnicient community )

.. Why cant the boosts work on a ranged basis? doesnt the Orca work like this?

One thing to remember is that if this is removed from T3, its not like it makes the ships useless. They have many other roles.

We all know there is no such thing as a fair fight in Eve.

IMHO the offgrid boosting is certainly a bit of a ***** tool, similarly to the guy shouting for 1v1 GFs with his cloaky falcon alt.

There is no difference.

The range based boosts are computational heavy and scales horribly with number of people on grid. I doubt CCP will be willing to go that way.

Excuse me if I still think the only risk averse is the guy not willing to commit his ship to the fight because of some very bad mechanic offering huge advantages, read all the benefits but with NO RISK.

If you're not risk averse you'll bring your boosting ship to the fight, if you're risk averse and not willing to risk loosing your boosting ship then you leave it at the station.
Battlecruisers have enough slots to fit at least one gang link, those should be used more often in gangs for links rather than neut/salvager

It was my understanding that fleet command ships were getting a buff, as in getting bonuses to two types of boosts instead of one. Damnation for example would give the 3% bonus per level to armored and skirmish, Claymore to siege and skirmish, eos to information and armored, and vulture to information and siege (IIRC, the exact combinations may be different).

The T3s would get a 2% bonus per level to three types of boosts, so a Tengu could boost information, skirmish, and siege for example.

The issue is the cost of fitting multiple links atm - the co-processors render any ship useless in a proper fight if it wants to fit 3 links. Fit 1 link to each ship you say? OK, but you only have 3 booster slots (gang / wing / fleet) and one of those requires a really heavy duty skill investment to use.

The fixes to link slots for command and T3 ships will be welcomed with open arms - I look forward to flying on-grid liks myself (and sometimes do already) but T1 battlecruisers will also need to be able to fit multiple links for them to be used a lot.

Utimately, our corp / alliance already has draft fits ready to deal with this change in all our doctrines as we learned long ago this is EVE - Adapt or Die.

Making them on-grid is not going to make it better, if anything it will get worse. it's still the amount of bonuses you get that's the problem.

Again solo means 1.

Not 1 + 1 falcon alt; Nor 1 + 1 logistics alt; Nor 1 + 1 booster alt.

The math shouldn't be that hard.

We use command ships for on-grid boosting anyways. Enemy FCs generally don't target them because they have such massive tanks, so it's usually better to go for the logi or dps.

Its not a problem by any means. Its just another one of the many ways in this sandbox game someone can have an advantage.

If you hate them so much why dont you train up a toon for a year and a half and have boosts. Or wait, are you not wanting to spend the time and money like the boosters did?

You get what you pay for in this game and the amount of time you put in......

Its not a problem by any means. Its just another one of the many ways in this sandbox game someone can have an advantage.

If you hate them so much why dont you train up a toon for a year and a half and have boosts. Or wait, are you not wanting to spend the time and money like the boosters did?

You get what you pay for in this game and the amount of time you put in......

I have access to tengu, loki and legion links, the boost amount is broken.

We use command ships for on-grid boosting anyways. Enemy FCs generally don't target them because they have such massive tanks, so it's usually better to go for the logi or dps.

doesn't the math also say that solo PvP = 1 v 1, not 4 v 1?

Celly

+1

I happen to agree with the statement
"You get what you pay for in this game and the amount of time you put in" wholeheartedly!!!

And yeah, CCP have only boosted solo in 3 ways the last few years.
1. Tech 3 Cruiser Boosts

I'm not quite sure how making all your enemies tougher is "helping solo", since by definition, if you have a booster, you aren't solo.
If you have a booster, you aren't "getting better at 1vX". You're just going up to a 2vX fight instead. Yeah, two ships is going to be more effective than just one.

It's clearly not an issue for CCP at this time, so I spent this morning fitting a Loki for OGB, and will be setting up either a Sleip or a Damnation/Absolution this afternoon.

Hate to say it, but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

3 of my accounts have toons on them with all leadership skills to lvl 5, it was done intentionally, other accounts have pilots that can run the 5 link legion or tengu, again, done intentionally.
A decent gust of wind would likely rip those ships apart simply because of the role they are fit for.

I find the problem with most of our targets as a corp is the fact that most people can't grasp the way we fly and blame boosts.

Boosts aren't the reason you can't hit my ship thats another game mechanic entirely (sig radius/speed vs gun resolution)..

Everyone knows me I fly ....

Both effected by boosts.

DOH!




Yes of course, everyone knows you. It is definitely not just in your own mind where you are famous. Definitely not.

CCP have already stated on several occasions that OGB is going away

Which means it will happen sometime between soonGäó and never.



This is so good it has to fattening.

You can now kill people directly with logistic ships and jammers.

If you cannot see how a logi or a jammer more directly affects a fight than a booster then you do not deserve to be in a fleet.

Eve Online is a MassiveMultiplayerOnline game, not Solo Tetris Online.

OGB has to go away, it's a bad mechanic and since you're talking about sandbox where is the "consequence" for the POS kissing multimillion fit/implants booster alt?
-none, you can't get retribution, he's totally safe behind the POS shields providing overpowered boosts from 1m to 285 AU large system.

We like to fly essentially more or less nano fits. Now as an FC in my fleet I naturally think when we head out what are my weaknesses? Obviously long range webbing ships. Say I run into an actual tanky webber such as the brick loki. I have already prepared for this and whether the loki has boosted web/point range or not he will still die because his counter is in place and ready to damp him into nothing. The good thing about this little juicy ship is effectively removes all forms of "nuisance" ships from the field whether they have boosts or not.

By that logic CCP could go ahead and buff thrashers (or insert any other random subcap ship) to do 100000 DPS because you can counter them with sensor dampeners as well?

This has become a bad thread, and I feel bad for starting it.

If you think you can win without your ogb alt then do it. But we all know you won't put down the crutch.

If you weren't so dependant on them you wouldn't be in this thread making bad arguments of why OGBs don't really change much.

Pad your killboard with leet "solo" and "small gang" kills while you can. CCP knows OGBs are a cancer for the game's long term health. Its just a matter of time before it is removed.

OGB are less of an asset as a logi or a falcon considering they don't directly affect a fight..

Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:



In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.

If OGB goes away, shouldn't fleet bonuses also only apply when being on grid and not just in the same system? Surely the knowledge from a skill cannot have longer range than an active module?

/c

I don't believe its technically possible for CCP to prevent OGB. Prevent boosting from a POS yes, but not applying the boosts to one grid in a system.

It would be pretty easy to limit to on grid. For example they could limit the boost to locked friendly targets. If they wanted to make it more active, you'd even have to activate a module on your target to give it a temporary boost (longer than cycle time, obviously). (Of course that might have unintended/intended(?) implications like jamming the booster)

Alternatively they could cause the booster modules to generate a pulsing aura comparable to smartbombs, just larger, which applies a temporary buff. In this case buff duration and cycle time could be comparable.

Easy quick fix for low and null: Have turning on a non-mining boost module light a beacon in system.

Easy quick fix for low and null: Have turning on a non-mining boost module light a beacon in system.

Posted in the thread about combat battlecruisers:



In addition there's the issue of "on-grid" not necessarily meaning "at risk". I can park my boosting ship 300km from the gang and nobody will be able to touch it.

I would think limiting it to a grid would be an easy check. Is the ship in your fleet and visible in space? I so, it gets a boost.

Requiring boosters be on grid is one of the most player upvoted proposals on the csm's assembly hall.

Yet it seems it didn't get much attention from the csm meeting

It's super difficult to probe ships on grid and it takes a long time c/d?

Exactly this.

At the moment you very rarely see "Fkin blobbers" or anything like that in local (You do, but theyre just scrubs).

EVE is supposed to be fun, unfortunately now, people are so risk averse that they only fight in huge numbers, OGB allow you to do things like this:
http://cyn0.syn-dot.com/index.php/kill_related/12833/ (Please allow the KB link it's to prove a point).

Without the tengu boost, we would've ALL died, and without the loki we couldn't of caught anything. Tell me how that is going to IMPROVE this game? So now blobs can dominate you with a push of a button? At this moment, blobs have to think about what they're going to do tactically, and not underestimate their opponent, after the OGB nerf, its instadeath

What a crock of crap....

People who use off-grid alts are lazy, risk adverse people, they are looking to gank, not take on some blob...

I use OFG boosters all the time in fleets. Not solo ganking.

If OFG boosting gets nerfed to only being able to boost ongrid. Miners will cry. Since this Nerf will have to cover both PVP and PVE boosting.

Maybe not a beacon, but at least some way to trace it. Like maybe a scanner module meant to tap into fleet comms and detect their boosters.

Simple questions that will help decision making;

Should an EXTREMELY specialized toon with over 20 mil sp not give an advantage to the fleet it is in?

What is the success ratio of the people complaining about the boosters? Do they even understand pvp?

If a tengu booster increases shield ehp shouldnt Pith-A invulns be nerfed too?

Afterburners are the only prop mod that gets better velocity by getting one with a better name. Since that increases speed and helps sig tanking shouldnt it be nerfed along with loki booster?

Did the alliances with on grid boosters win the recent alliance tournament?