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Moominer
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Moominer on 06/07/2005 00:20:33
Having been a newbish Raven pilot before patch I am looking at the new missile skills, especially T2 launchers, and wondering if new cruises can compete with pre-patch torp damage taking into consideration the new skills at a minimal level 4.
Pre-Patch Torp Damage - Stock Modules
Torp Damage @ lvl5 Torp = 450 * 1.25 = 562.5
ROF of Siege Launcher I @ Lvl5 MLO & Lvl4 Caldi BS = 24 * 0.75 * 0.8 = 14.4s
DPS = ( 562.5 * 6 ) / 14.4 = 234.375 dps
Pre-Patch Torp Damage - Arb Siege
Torp Damage @ lvl5 Torp = 450 * 1.25 = 562.5
ROF of Arby Siege Launcher @ Lvl5 MLO & Lvl4 Caldi BS = 19.20 * 0.75 * 0.8 = 11.52s
DPS = ( 562.5 * 6 ) / 11.52 = 292.97 dps
Post-Patch Cruse Damage - Stock Modules
Cruise Damage @ lvl5 cruise & lvl4 warhead upgrd = 300 * 1.25 * 1.08 = 405
ROF of Cruise Launcher I @ Lvl5 MLO & Lvl4 Rapid Launch & Lvl4 Caldi BS = 22 * 0.9 * 0.88 * 0.8 = 13.93s
DPS = ( 405 * 6 ) / 13.93 = 174.44 dps
Post-Patch Cruse Damage - Tech2 Launchers
Cruise Damage @ lvl5 cruise & lvl4 warhead upgrd = 300 * 1.25 * 1.08 = 405
ROF of Cruise Launcher II @ Lvl5 MLO & Lvl4 Rapid Launch & Cruise Launcher Spec 4 & Lvl4 Caldi BS = 22 * 0.9 * 0.88 * 0.8 * 0.92 = 10.25s
DPS = ( 405 * 6 ) / 10.25 = 237.07 dps
As PG is lower on cruise launchers it would be possible to fit less PDU II's and more BCUs, increasing damage further...
Siege II and new skills are obviously going to outperform this in raw DPS, but considering the range, speed and better expl radius and expl velocity of cruises they could be a decent alternative.
Some math/figures may be out, please correct if so
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:33:00 -
[2]
looks very interesting, problem will be convincing all the raven pilots in my corp who are crying bloody murder to take a look at cruise as an alternative.
The stunning lack of tech 2 bcus is helping in no way whatsoever, btw.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:35:00 -
[3]
if it matters any I'm a Raven pilot IN LOVE with the new changes. I feel invincible right now.
Fear the range... heh, like any apoc in the game can outdamage a raven at 200km+ when I have cruise missles?
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Elfaen Ethenwe
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:42:00 -
[4]
yeah, see my thread about a caracel with level 5 in skills 250km anyone
<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->
Together we Gank, Divided we Pop.
<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<->-<-> |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:44:00 -
[5]
Problem is it was already hard to break some tanks with 6 siege launchers and you now have to equip 'something else' to take cruisers and frigates down.
If you equip assault launchers, it makes it impossible to kill BSs. If you equip guns, either you'll have tracking problems against frigates with medium rails or won't do enough damage with smalls.
Which leaves drones and a Caldari race that is forced to train for missiles, guns, EW (unless they give Caldari a rail BS) and drones.
I used to fly a 6 siege + 2 x 125 TII rails and had to equip a webber to kill frigs with rails so I switched to lasers (much better tracking) to spare a mid slot.
Now for PvP I don't care much, the Raven was already crap for fleet engagements it can't be worse.
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FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:16:00 -
[6]
hmm the numbers aren't as bad as I thought. was thinking I wouldn't be able to break the tank on high end NPC BSs but looks like once I get the skill trained on cruise I should be able to rat fairly well with my raven. granted i'll still need to use drones to kill frigs. but from what i've been told cruise are fairly effective on cruisers
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:30:00 -
[7]
I'm actually REALLY enjoying having Cruise Launchers on my Raven.
With all the damage mods I can fit now, I've got no problem keeping up with the damage output of my Torpedo Raven before. All while being able to fit a T2 XLarge Shield Booster as well as a couple small railguns (which I might swap for Nosferatus). Training Warhead Upgrades and Rapid Launch to IV will almost be like having another BCS fitted too. Throw in the fact that Shield Compensation helps me counter a bit of the loss in cap recharge due to having less PDS fitted, and I'm a happy camper. :)
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:52:00 -
[8]
I didn't want to mention this before the patch - why take away from people's desire to cry too early? :)
But yes, a set of 6 cruise launchers with 2 bcu's does significantly more damage, at greater realistic range, than a set of 6 sieges did (with no bcu's) before the patch.
The idea is here, USE CRUISE LAUNCHERS!
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ElricUK
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:55:00 -
[9]
I was just thinking through this idea myself and lo someone has already done the math. 
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.06 02:03:00 -
[10]
Shh. Ravens are clearly nerfed to death because they do mediocre damage with no skills whatsoever and setups which are no longer optimal.
Anyone who disagrees is a caldari hater.
Morons. In 2 months time, when people are getting 4-5m SP in missiles, the raven is going to be absurdly good.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:13:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: keepiru
looks very interesting, problem will be convincing all the raven pilots in my corp who are crying bloody murder to take a look at cruise as an alternative.
The stunning lack of tech 2 bcus is helping in no way whatsoever, btw.
And who might that be Keep.
cough
And who was the one saying they use cruise launchers cuz they could fit 2 tach beams.
cough
And who said that cruise launchers would be more viable than seige before this patch(but still worthless)
cough
sure as heck wouldn't have been me now would it Keep
cough cough
 irony is blissfull.
Seeing people change their opinions from corp discussions ingame and posting it in forums
priceless.
If you wanna make our corp discussions a display on forums, Something I've never done on forums myself but lets go with it.
And when someone pays to build a char for 2 years to have one patch make it totally worthless for next two monthes or more IS bloody fricken murder.
cough
No worries, won't be in Nova much longer........
infact
as soon as this patch is downloaded, we'll take care of that for you.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:17:00 -
[12]
I wouldnt call them worthless by any stretch of the imagination.
You show me a weapon apart from cruise i can put on a bs and do 200+ dps from 0-180k, thats hardly worthless. And this is quite beside the point, but whos taking corp matters on forums now?
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:41:00 -
[13]
what's that you wanna buy my gunnery account and you'll make it worth my while.
sorry but selling accounts is against the eula.
mmmm k tks bye
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Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:19:00 -
[14]
There were a few problems with the raven pre patch:
Almost useless in pvp due to missile flight times, except for anti frig fleets and 1v1 or 2v2. But in a giant fleet they were junk.
WAY overpowered in pve. I have almost 2mil sp in gunnery, and about 100k sp in missiles. I could barely kill some spawns in my apoc, but could afk solo almost every spawn in a raven. Yea, that's ballanced 
Post patch the raven looks like this:
VERY viable in pvp. 6 cruise, 1 large shield booster, lots of hardeners, 6 BCS in the lows. You can hit a BS from 0m to 200km and have a full tank, with very little flight time to worry about. Just watched a alliance mate take on 4 BS's in his raven (sniper BS's). They were running like roaches when you turn the light on. His tank held strong while he put multiple BS's into structure.
Ballanced in PVE. Now I do (obviously) more damage in my apoc to NPC's. But that's because of the extra 1.6mil sp in gunnery. If I chose to train up my missile skills I think they'd be on par.
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Moominer
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Posted - 2005.07.06 18:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Moominer on 06/07/2005 18:54:00
Maximum DPS post patch with all skills level 5:
Post-Patch - Maximum DPS with Cruise
Cruise Damage @ lvl5 cruise & lvl5 warhead upgrd = 300 * 1.25 * 1.1 = 412.5
ROF of Cruise Launcher II @ Lvl5 MLO & Lvl5 Rapid Launch & Cruise Launcher Spec 5 & Lvl5 Caldi BS = 17.60 * 0.9 * 0.85 * 0.75 * 0.90 = 9.0882 sec
DPS = ( 412.5 * 6 ) / 9.0882 = 272.33 dps
Post-Patch - Maximum DPS with Torp
Torp Damage @ lvl5 Torp & lvl5 warhead upgrd = 450 * 1.25 * 1.1 = 618.75
ROF of Siege Launcher II @ Lvl5 MLO & Lvl5 Rapid Launch & Torp Spec 5 & Lvl5 Caldi BS = 19.2 * 0.9 * 0.85 * 0.75 * 0.90 = 9.9144 sec
DPS = ( 618.75 * 6 ) / 9.9144 = 374.46 dps
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:31:00 -
[16]
ahhh if they'd only increase the max targetting range of the raven, I'd be a happier camper.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
ahhh if they'd only increase the max targetting range of the raven, I'd be a happier camper.
Doesn't it already have the longest targeting range
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Zaintiraris
ahhh if they'd only increase the max targetting range of the raven, I'd be a happier camper.
Doesn't it already have the longest targeting range
That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with it  I'd like to be able to target at least 100km with it, ideally, but I kind of doubt that wish will get granted.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:54:00 -
[19]
hay i really enjoy having more missle skill to get to lev 5 i have 13 new missles skills to get to lev 5 now :P :)
Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime!
Image done by Denrace |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:56:00 -
[20]
Your math confuses and enrages Alowishus.
Simple question:
Will post patch Arb Cruise Launchers with lvl5 (only on what's required to learn other skills)/4 skills outdamage post patch Siege 1 with same skills? It's all I want to know.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zaintiraris
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Zaintiraris
ahhh if they'd only increase the max targetting range of the raven, I'd be a happier camper.
Doesn't it already have the longest targeting range
That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with it I'd like to be able to target at least 100km with it, ideally, but I kind of doubt that wish will get granted.
Sensor boosters
Or did you want to snipe with a full defense on as well?
________________________________________________________
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Moominer
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Moominer on 07/07/2005 00:49:42
Originally by: Alowishus
Will post patch Arb Cruise Launchers with lvl5 (only on what's required to learn other skills)/4 skills outdamage post patch Siege 1 with same skills? It's all I want to know.
Assuming MLO 5 and rest level 4:
Post-patch Arb Cruise
Dmg @ Cruise 4 & Warhead Upg 4 = 300 * 1.2 * 1.08 = 388.8
ROF @ MLO 5 & RL 4 & Caldi BS 4 = 17.60 * 0.9 * 0.88 * 0.8 = 11.15s
DPS = (388.8 * 6)/11.15 = 209.21 dps
Post-patch Siege I
Dmg @ Torp 4 & Warhead Upg 4 = 450 * 1.2 * 1.08 = 583.2
ROF @ MLO 5 & RL 4 & Caldi BS 4 = 24 * 0.9 * 0.88 * 0.8 = 15.20s
DPS = (583.2 * 6)/15.20 = 230.21 dps
Keep in mind its easier to fit more BCUs with cruise launchers that will raise DPS, and you should be seeing higher damage vs cruisers due to the better explosion radius compared to torps.
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THE D0CT0R
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Posted - 2005.07.07 10:53:00 -
[23]
Aye, Cruise rocks.
There's a nice Domination Cruise launcher in the wts forum
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bigsteve
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:03:00 -
[24]
RIGHT LADS
YOUR DPS CALCULACTION MAY THINK THAT ITS BETTER BUT, ITS BULL
I HAVE SHOT A CRUISE MISSILE AT A STATIONRY SHUTTLE IT DID 10.5 DAMAGE.
YOU GUYS ARE FORGETTING TO INCLUDE SIGNATURE RADIUS AND EXPLOSION RADIUS.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.07.07 11:15:00 -
[25]
WRITING ALL IN CAPS PROVE THAT WHATEVER I WAY IS TRUE...
Cruises aren't working well on small targets, and it's done on purpose.
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Natasha Kerensky
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:23:00 -
[26]
you know, yesterday i logged in and took my Raven out NPC'ing and i was suprised, my Cruises were doing about 77 dmg per hit on frigates!
However i do have Cruise Missles 5 and was packing 5 bcu's, but it was still alot better than i expected.
I could toast frigs in one volley, (love the new missle speed, btw!) and suprisingly it took multiple volleis to take out a cruiser!!
totally not what i expected
and uh, hehe, i was launching them out of my "Malkuth" Seige Launchers as well, since they were loaded with cruises when the patch hit....hmm, i wonder if i should hold onto them, might become a collectors item
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FORUMZ! Because none of us, is as dumb as all of us |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:43:00 -
[27]
If you think about it, cruise missiles should be better than torpedoes - that's why it's a rank 5 skill.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Bruce
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Posted - 2005.07.19 02:14:00 -
[28]
Just to through more data into the frey. I have shot at 2K NPC rats with juggernaughts with L3 of new missile skills, and L4 old skills. Yes I got roughly 41 dmg per hit, but!! I also got a few hits on them that were 300+ dmg. Now the rats were not orbiting, but coming at me from 30+ km.
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