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Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.07.06 00:45:00 - [1] CCP releases one of the most godly patches ever, making EVE even more like a vast Homeworld simulation. In a way its a bit like some classic turn based strategy games, in terms of getting the resources to build outposts and dreads and putting them together. The improvements are amazing, possibly bigger than Exodus. And people threaten to quit, whine all over the place, and troll every thread with crap about quitting EVE. ?!!!!!?!?!!!!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! Somebody help me understand wtf is going on? Or a whiner clarify why people are hating on the patch? -- Dark Shikari: POS Consultant! Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required!
IIIAsharakIII	Posted - 2005.07.06 00:49:00 - [2] Edited by: IIIAsharakIII on 06/07/2005 00:49:18 Because for some people in this game its like taking a step backwards. Don't get me wrong the other features are interesting, but the missile patch is what irks me, nothing to quit over, but definatly a set back.
Ander	Posted - 2005.07.06 00:51:00 - [3] It's cause there are too many changes which affects different professions. Missiles getting 'nerfed' and loads of new skills required to be trained , ever caldari raven pilot gets **ed aswell as other missile using pilots. 0.4% sec boosts from 750k npcs 'nerfed', every pirate and bounty-hunter out there gets ed. Many of the highways which were added a year ago to encourage people to travel gets 'nerfed', traders and people who travel a lot gets **ed. Several client-side bugs: _____ underlinebug in chat wallet not updating properly in some cases Other bugs/problems: Drones which doesnt stop attacking even if you call them back. (Verified and crosschecked with corpmate) Seriously too easy to solo the 4/10 PHI operation complexes. This is just a short portion, you get the point. Overall I still like this patch, however the 750k NPC nerf does affect me. I dont like that though. http://www.eve-pirate.com Headlines: EVE-PIRATE.COM - DOES NOT CONDONE THE NEXT PATCH!
BlueSmok	Posted - 2005.07.06 00:54:00 - [4] Yeah the travel has seriously affected my game play, I don't mind that they've killed some of the more super highways, but Auto pilot shouldn't take you through low sec if you tell it you want a "SAFE" route... *Laws to suppress tend to strengthen what they would prohibit. This is the fine point on which all the legal professions of history have based their job security. Bene Gesserit Coda
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.07.06 01:00:00 - [5] Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience. The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt. Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2005.07.06 01:02:00 - [6] I agree 100% digi, Me being someone who actually trained in other missles other than torps...Im looking forward for further testing. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.07.06 03:35:00 - [7] Gallente 4TW

Abdalion	Posted - 2005.07.06 03:40:00 - [8] Let's please not let this turn into a bloodbath. -- I ♥ You.... Stolen from Eris®

infused	Posted - 2005.07.06 03:43:00 - [9] It's going to take some getting use to, just like Exodus... I think CPP should release a patch in smaller sizes in future. IE: Only patch the missiles and get that correct, then the highways, etc etc so it's not so much at once. [World Domination] [Patch 3366-3538: Mirror Here]
JarmenKell	Posted - 2005.07.06 03:46:00 - [10] Originally by: HUGO DRAX Gallente 4TW we got nurfed with the gunnery before, u saw the skils we got to do now. thats what u guys got to do now. just at the wrong time though. althoug, i dont lke this new patch, and skills like hacker and archiology, are making the game look boring just like real life. stick toa rcade style ps. there is a limimit on what a game should have to be called a a game
JarmenKell	Posted - 2005.07.06 03:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Abdalion Let's please not let this turn into a bloodbath. how many threads are blocked. tell CCP to go on the server and system restore to the earlier version. than rething the new patch for the next 6 months.
Znaei	Posted - 2005.07.06 03:47:00 - [12] I agree, Missiles will rock after I finish training the new skills. Sure I wont be able to kill a frig with a single missile, but thats cool. Makes it more fun. clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh
J0an0fArc	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Dark Shikari CCP releases one of the most godly patches ever, making EVE even more like a vast Homeworld simulation. In a way its a bit like some classic turn based strategy games, in terms of getting the resources to build outposts and dreads and putting them together. The improvements are amazing, possibly bigger than Exodus. And people threaten to quit, whine all over the place, and troll every thread with crap about quitting EVE. ?!!!!!?!?!!!!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! Somebody help me understand wtf is going on? Or a whiner clarify why people are hating on the patch? Yeah taking a step backwards wasn't my idea of a good patch... I've got nearly 16 million skill points and caldari ship are my primary focus, so you know about all the shield tanking skills needed, the power conserving skills etc. etc. the list goes on... Not to mention what it takes to get to torps and in preperation of dreds start on BS 5... only to find out that my Bs now does less damage than my interceptor does. Way ****ed off.. but thankfully fly more than one race... just lots of new skill avenues to train... the overall changes to the game are awesome... I just believe that the Nerf to the Caldari race and Caldari Pilots as a whole should have been staggered instead of all imposed at once.. I mean common i have gone from solo'ing level 4's to not being able to complete a lvl 3... Rediculous if you ask me. Mine or Die.
darmoth	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:03:00 - [14] I am getting sick of seeing people say missles DID'T get nerfed they most certianly did get NERFED. Heavy missle does 37.5 dmg to a frig per missle. 250mm rail gun does 75+ to same frig now you freaking tell me that a 160 dmg missle pre patch did not get nerfed. ya maybe in 2 months when i have all 5 rank 2 skills at level 5 I will be close to were i was but what am i suspose to do for the next 2 months mine? maybe i can go lose a few billon in ships trying to haul thru low sec space cause there is no way around it now. you tell me.
Jackal79	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:04:00 - [15] As a newer player I find the changes to missiles very frusterating. I used to be able to mine solo in an osprey with 3 tech 2 miners and a heavy launcher quite easily. Now that my heavy missiles do 18 DAMAGE I cannot do this without alot of frustration and spending 15 minutes killing a spawn. I can understand making the missiles a bit less powerful. I can't understand decreasing the damage heavy missiles inflict to 18 on shields and 34 on armor. I mean come on! Damn! I do not want, and I will not spend 5 months training missile skills to become a threat in the game.
J0an0fArc	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:11:00 - [16] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience. The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt. Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai. Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot. as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it... Mine or Die.
J0an0fArc	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:17:00 - [17] Originally by: darmoth the worse part is thre trying ther best to force everyone to gang and go into low sec systems. that works great if your in the 12 millon sp range and have few billon to waste. I worked for 2 weeks mineing ot build my ship which i still can't afford to insure yet. Not to mention the money I invested in implants. Now i am supose to risk all that time so one rat in a battle ship can take out my battle cruiser in few seconds and set me back nearly a month of work? I think not I would rather pay my money to another game then waste my time in this one. Not so much all that Darmoth, What has happened there is that SOLO players have been nerfed, It would be near impossible to solo anything now. Especially caldari coughs I mean I'm in a corp with some highly skilled players, but I love solo work... Especially missions and yes 0.0 hunting... Impossible now, or until lots more training is done... *Thought 16mill SPS would be enough CCP* Guess I was mistaken! Mine or Die.
Minsc	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:18:00 - [18] Originally by: darmoth I am getting sick of seeing people say missles DID'T get nerfed they most certianly did get NERFED. Heavy missle does 37.5 dmg to a frig per missle. 250mm rail gun does 75+ to same frig now you freaking tell me that a 160 dmg missle pre patch did not get nerfed. ya maybe in 2 months when i have all 5 rank 2 skills at level 5 I will be close to were i was but what am i suspose to do for the next 2 months mine? maybe i can go lose a few billon in ships trying to haul thru low sec space cause there is no way around it now. you tell me. Uh...that 75+ damage on the frig is rare good hit, plus you have to consider that the turret will probably miss 1 in 3 shots...so as far as DOT goes it is just about the same. The changes to missles bring them right on par with the rest of the weapon types. I primarily fly gallente ships but can fly caldari cruisers and I tested on sisi both without the new skills and also with them. It really is pretty close to balanced now, plus with the new missle skills damage can get even better than before, add in a target painter (and they do make a huge difference) and you can do well. I almost took down a 750k BS spawn on sisi in a caracel, and that was after taking down his escort.
darmoth	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Kage Getsu Look at the concept of a torpedo in real life. A weapon that's just an explosive with an engine on it. You have to fire one directly at a slow or stationary target to even hope of hitting. Imagine a small motorboat circling around a warship. Imagine that warship trying to hit it with torpedos. Same idea when your Raven launches torpedos at an orbiting interceptor. now imagine a rowboat sittign still and a heavy guided missle hits it dead in the center and does 32 dmg scratching its paint. then guy in the row boat sinks your cruiser with his paddle. thats about what it is now. Weather you beleave its a nerf or a balance the fact is you can't change an entire empire's combat system in one patch and expect people to spend weeks training to get back wre they were. when the other 3 empires are not nearly as effected as the caldari who's primary wepon is missles.
Eirelynn	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:21:00 - [20] I think it's just cause when someone is happy with the patch they just get back to playing Eve. When someone isn't happy, they go to the forums and whine. So you will always hear more complaining than "good patch" comments.
Tekka Nub	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:24:00 - [21] Ok stop shooting frigs in a BS and maybe that will solve your problem... To the guy who says his heavy missles do 30 somthing damage... Sound like its verus frigs... try using light missles Stop whining... the missile changes are fine
Slaxl	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:27:00 - [22] Edited by: Slaxl on 06/07/2005 04:26:53 Originally by: J0an0fArc Originally by: DigitalCommunist Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience. The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt. Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai. Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot. as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it... Digi is right, it is a balance. Your interceptor doesn't hit a megathron harder than your raven will do when you try it out on another battleship, thats the problem here, you're using your raven to shoot frigates, its fine when shooting other battleships. Also so you have to train 5 new skills just to hit like a battleship? well do you want to know how many skills it takes a gunnery based ship to hit like a battleship? its more than 5 ill tell you that.
Harry Saq	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:30:00 - [23] God these Caldari crybabies are making me sick! This patch is awesome from what I have seen so far. There are not too many things I can't find good about it, aside from the new font that is. Thank god the lame Caldari have to finally have some skills to pile up isk, I love it! I was getting freakin tired of all the damn Ravens running out of my lvl 4 agent's base. Hopefully I might actually see someone, other than me, NOT in a Raven now, sweet!
J0an0fArc	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Slaxl Edited by: Slaxl on 06/07/2005 04:26:53 Originally by: J0an0fArc Originally by: DigitalCommunist Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience. The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt. Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai. Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot. as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it... Digi is right, it is a balance. Your interceptor doesn't hit a megathron harder than your raven will do when you try it out on another battleship, thats the problem here, you're using your raven to shoot frigates, its fine when shooting other battleships. Also so you have to train 5 new skills just to hit like a battleship? well do you want to know how many skills it takes a gunnery based ship to hit like a battleship? its more than 5 ill tell you that. nope wasn't shooting a frigate, and yes i know how many skills for gunnery based ships it takes as i'm nearing 5 mill SP's in gunnery... Mine or Die.
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:50:00 - [25] I think what is getting the older players in a bind, is that this patch made noob's out of them. People with 16 million skills with battleships worth 200 million in ship and mods can't even swat an anoying 250k frigate without 3 months of skilling up - then still maybe not. Someone said that Torps were not supposed to hit frigate - but that is exactly what they have been doing for 2 plus years. Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
J0an0fArc	Posted - 2005.07.06 04:59:00 - [26] Originally by: BIRDofPREY I think what is getting the older players in a bind, is that this patch made noob's out of them. People with 16 million skills with battleships worth 200 million in ship and mods can't even swat an anoying 250k frigate without 3 months of skilling up - then still maybe not. Someone said that Torps were not supposed to hit frigate - but that is exactly what they have been doing for 2 plus years. Ya hit the nail on the head with that one... It's all i'm hearing from corpmates at the moment... We all fly 2 or more races and some fly all races, just a pain when you can't hold your own on a cruiser or even a frigate... thankfully high gunnery skills and amarr bs's trained way up as well as gallente... it'll all even out... ina few months! Mine or Die.
Rafein	Posted - 2005.07.06 05:17:00 - [27] Edited by: Rafein on 06/07/2005 05:18:51 Originally by: darmoth thats about what it is now. Weather you beleave its a nerf or a balance the fact is you can't change an entire empire's combat system in one patch and expect people to spend weeks training to get back wre they were. when the other 3 empires are not nearly as effected as the caldari who's primary wepon is missles. Um, they did it for 3 of 4 empires when the gunnery patch went in. And it was balancing. Gunnery has weapon tracking issues, where large turrets will struggle to hit small, fast ships. Missiles now have that with the blast radius Vs. Signature strength. Think of it this way, if your missiles blast range is 50 Km, and my ship is only 25 KM, I don;t get hit by all of the blast, and should only take half the damage.
marioman	Posted - 2005.07.06 05:30:00 - [28] would just like to comment on a few things: I have no problems 1 shotting frigs with my 250mm IIs on my eagle or 425 protos on my mega, using my Eagle with arbalest assaults fitting with bloodclaws, fighting guristas, new missile skills lvl 1-2 i was doing 44 dmg (out of 100 total of the missile), now these are LIGHT missiles against a FRIGATE, something is wrong there i will say Also me and a couple guys just got through running some COSMOS complexes, i was in an eagle, he was in a harpy, other guy in a sacrilige, the guy in the HARPY aggroed a group of SIX scorpions and 1 RAVEN, and tanked them all Want to run lvl 4's solo? fight guristas with a high kinetic resistance AF (enyo/harpy) lol
SkyAlt	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:02:00 - [29] You know, the only thing I'm **ed about are all the missile launcher powergrid changes. All of my minmatar setups are **** now. I can't fit anything remotely good. Its either projectile guns or missile launchers. That's it, I can't combine the 2. Well I can but I can't fit 2 light artillery and 2 standard missile launchers? WTF. Back to the world of uselessness they go.
SkyLander	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:02:00 - [30] Whoops had one of my alts there that is me...... __________________________________________________

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