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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:45:00 -
[1]
CCP releases one of the most godly patches ever, making EVE even more like a vast Homeworld simulation. In a way its a bit like some classic turn based strategy games, in terms of getting the resources to build outposts and dreads and putting them together. The improvements are amazing, possibly bigger than Exodus.
And people threaten to quit, whine all over the place, and troll every thread with crap about quitting EVE.
?!!!!!?!?!!!!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! Somebody help me understand wtf is going on? Or a whiner clarify why people are hating on the patch?
--
Dark Shikari: POS Consultant!
Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required! |
IIIAsharakIII
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: IIIAsharakIII on 06/07/2005 00:49:18
Because for some people in this game its like taking a step backwards.
Don't get me wrong the other features are interesting, but the missile patch is what irks me, nothing to quit over, but definatly a set back.
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Ander
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:51:00 -
[3]
It's cause there are too many changes which affects different professions.
Missiles getting 'nerfed' and loads of new skills required to be trained , ever caldari raven pilot gets ****ed aswell as other missile using pilots.
0.4% sec boosts from 750k npcs 'nerfed', every pirate and bounty-hunter out there gets ****ed.
Many of the highways which were added a year ago to encourage people to travel gets 'nerfed', traders and people who travel a lot gets ****ed.
Several client-side bugs:
_____ underlinebug in chat
wallet not updating properly in some cases
Other bugs/problems:
Drones which doesnt stop attacking even if you call them back. (Verified and crosschecked with corpmate)
Seriously too easy to solo the 4/10 PHI operation complexes.
This is just a short portion, you get the point.
Overall I still like this patch, however the 750k NPC nerf does affect me. I dont like that though.
http://www.eve-pirate.com
Headlines: EVE-PIRATE.COM - DOES NOT CONDONE THE NEXT PATCH! |
BlueSmok
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Posted - 2005.07.06 00:54:00 -
[4]
Yeah the travel has seriously affected my game play, I don't mind that they've killed some of the more super highways, but Auto pilot shouldn't take you through low sec if you tell it you want a "SAFE" route...
*Laws to suppress tend to strengthen what they would prohibit. This is the fine point on which all the legal professions of history have based their job security.
Bene Gesserit Coda |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:00:00 -
[5]
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Ly'sol
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Posted - 2005.07.06 01:02:00 -
[6]
I agree 100% digi,
Me being someone who actually trained in other missles other than torps...Im looking forward for further testing.
--------------------------
Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:35:00 -
[7]
Gallente 4TW 
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Abdalion
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:40:00 -
[8]
Let's please not let this turn into a bloodbath.
--
I ♥ You.... Stolen from ErisŪ |
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infused
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:43:00 -
[9]
It's going to take some getting use to, just like Exodus...
I think CPP should release a patch in smaller sizes in future.
IE: Only patch the missiles and get that correct, then the highways, etc etc so it's not so much at once.
[World Domination]
[Patch 3366-3538: Mirror Here] |
JarmenKell
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:46:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: HUGO DRAX
Gallente 4TW
we got nurfed with the gunnery before, u saw the skils we got to do now.
thats what u guys got to do now. just at the wrong time though.
althoug, i dont lke this new patch, and skills like hacker and archiology, are making the game look boring just like real life.
stick toa rcade style ps. there is a limimit on what a game should have to be called a a game
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JarmenKell
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Abdalion
Let's please not let this turn into a bloodbath.
how many threads are blocked. tell CCP to go on the server and system restore to the earlier version. than rething the new patch for the next 6 months.
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Znaei
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Posted - 2005.07.06 03:47:00 -
[12]
I agree, Missiles will rock after I finish training the new skills. Sure I wont be able to kill a frig with a single missile, but thats cool. Makes it more fun.
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
J0an0fArc
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
CCP releases one of the most godly patches ever, making EVE even more like a vast Homeworld simulation. In a way its a bit like some classic turn based strategy games, in terms of getting the resources to build outposts and dreads and putting them together. The improvements are amazing, possibly bigger than Exodus.
And people threaten to quit, whine all over the place, and troll every thread with crap about quitting EVE.
?!!!!!?!?!!!!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! Somebody help me understand wtf is going on? Or a whiner clarify why people are hating on the patch?
Yeah taking a step backwards wasn't my idea of a good patch... I've got nearly 16 million skill points and caldari ship are my primary focus, so you know about all the shield tanking skills needed, the power conserving skills etc. etc. the list goes on... Not to mention what it takes to get to torps and in preperation of dreds start on BS 5... only to find out that my Bs now does less damage than my interceptor does. Way ****ed off.. but thankfully fly more than one race... just lots of new skill avenues to train...
the overall changes to the game are awesome... I just believe that the Nerf to the Caldari race and Caldari Pilots as a whole should have been staggered instead of all imposed at once.. I mean common i have gone from solo'ing level 4's to not being able to complete a lvl 3... Rediculous if you ask me.
Mine or Die. |
darmoth
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:03:00 -
[14]
I am getting sick of seeing people say missles DID'T get nerfed they most certianly did get NERFED.
Heavy missle does 37.5 dmg to a frig per missle.
250mm rail gun does 75+ to same frig now you freaking tell me that a 160 dmg missle pre patch did not get nerfed. ya maybe in 2 months when i have all 5 rank 2 skills at level 5 I will be close to were i was but what am i suspose to do for the next 2 months mine? maybe i can go lose a few billon in ships trying to haul thru low sec space cause there is no way around it now. you tell me.
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:04:00 -
[15]
As a newer player I find the changes to missiles very frusterating. I used to be able to mine solo in an osprey with 3 tech 2 miners and a heavy launcher quite easily. Now that my heavy missiles do 18 DAMAGE I cannot do this without alot of frustration and spending 15 minutes killing a spawn. I can understand making the missiles a bit less powerful. I can't understand decreasing the damage heavy missiles inflict to 18 on shields and 34 on armor. I mean come on! Damn! I do not want, and I will not spend 5 months training missile skills to become a threat in the game.
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J0an0fArc
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot.
as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it...
Mine or Die. |
J0an0fArc
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: darmoth
the worse part is thre trying ther best to force everyone to gang and go into low sec systems. that works great if your in the 12 millon sp range and have few billon to waste. I worked for 2 weeks mineing ot build my ship which i still can't afford to insure yet. Not to mention the money I invested in implants. Now i am supose to risk all that time so one rat in a battle ship can take out my battle cruiser in few seconds and set me back nearly a month of work? I think not I would rather pay my money to another game then waste my time in this one.
Not so much all that Darmoth, What has happened there is that SOLO players have been nerfed, It would be near impossible to solo anything now. Especially caldari *coughs* I mean I'm in a corp with some highly skilled players, but I love solo work... Especially missions and yes 0.0 hunting... Impossible now, or until lots more training is done... ***Thought 16mill SPS would be enough CCP*** Guess I was mistaken!
Mine or Die. |
Minsc
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: darmoth
I am getting sick of seeing people say missles DID'T get nerfed they most certianly did get NERFED.
Heavy missle does 37.5 dmg to a frig per missle.
250mm rail gun does 75+ to same frig now you freaking tell me that a 160 dmg missle pre patch did not get nerfed. ya maybe in 2 months when i have all 5 rank 2 skills at level 5 I will be close to were i was but what am i suspose to do for the next 2 months mine? maybe i can go lose a few billon in ships trying to haul thru low sec space cause there is no way around it now. you tell me.
Uh...that 75+ damage on the frig is rare good hit, plus you have to consider that the turret will probably miss 1 in 3 shots...so as far as DOT goes it is just about the same. The changes to missles bring them right on par with the rest of the weapon types. I primarily fly gallente ships but can fly caldari cruisers and I tested on sisi both without the new skills and also with them. It really is pretty close to balanced now, plus with the new missle skills damage can get even better than before, add in a target painter (and they do make a huge difference) and you can do well. I almost took down a 750k BS spawn on sisi in a caracel, and that was after taking down his escort.
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darmoth
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Look at the concept of a torpedo in real life. A weapon that's just an explosive with an engine on it. You have to fire one directly at a slow or stationary target to even hope of hitting.
Imagine a small motorboat circling around a warship. Imagine that warship trying to hit it with torpedos.
Same idea when your Raven launches torpedos at an orbiting interceptor.
now imagine a rowboat sittign still and a heavy guided missle hits it dead in the center and does 32 dmg scratching its paint. then guy in the row boat sinks your cruiser with his paddle.
thats about what it is now. Weather you beleave its a nerf or a balance the fact is you can't change an entire empire's combat system in one patch and expect people to spend weeks training to get back wre they were. when the other 3 empires are not nearly as effected as the caldari who's primary wepon is missles.
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Eirelynn
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:21:00 -
[20]
I think it's just cause when someone is happy with the patch they just get back to playing Eve. When someone isn't happy, they go to the forums and whine. So you will always hear more complaining than "good patch" comments.
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Tekka Nub
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:24:00 -
[21]
Ok stop shooting frigs in a BS and maybe that will solve your problem... To the guy who says his heavy missles do 30 somthing damage... Sound like its verus frigs... try using light missles 
Stop whining... the missile changes are fine
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Slaxl
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:27:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Slaxl on 06/07/2005 04:26:53
Originally by: J0an0fArc
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot.
as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it...
Digi is right, it is a balance. Your interceptor doesn't hit a megathron harder than your raven will do when you try it out on another battleship, thats the problem here, you're using your raven to shoot frigates, its fine when shooting other battleships.
Also so you have to train 5 new skills just to hit like a battleship? well do you want to know how many skills it takes a gunnery based ship to hit like a battleship? its more than 5 ill tell you that.
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Harry Saq
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:30:00 -
[23]
God these Caldari crybabies are making me sick! This patch is awesome from what I have seen so far. There are not too many things I can't find good about it, aside from the new font that is.
Thank god the lame Caldari have to finally have some skills to pile up isk, I love it! I was getting freakin tired of all the damn Ravens running out of my lvl 4 agent's base. Hopefully I might actually see someone, other than me, NOT in a Raven now, sweet!
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J0an0fArc
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Slaxl
Edited by: Slaxl on 06/07/2005 04:26:53
Originally by: J0an0fArc
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot.
as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it...
Digi is right, it is a balance. Your interceptor doesn't hit a megathron harder than your raven will do when you try it out on another battleship, thats the problem here, you're using your raven to shoot frigates, its fine when shooting other battleships.
Also so you have to train 5 new skills just to hit like a battleship? well do you want to know how many skills it takes a gunnery based ship to hit like a battleship? its more than 5 ill tell you that.
nope wasn't shooting a frigate, and yes i know how many skills for gunnery based ships it takes as i'm nearing 5 mill SP's in gunnery...
Mine or Die. |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:50:00 -
[25]
I think what is getting the older players in a bind, is that this patch made noob's out of them. People with 16 million skills with battleships worth 200 million in ship and mods can't even swat an anoying 250k frigate without 3 months of skilling up - then still maybe not.
Someone said that Torps were not supposed to hit frigate - but that is exactly what they have been doing for 2 plus years.
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
J0an0fArc
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
I think what is getting the older players in a bind, is that this patch made noob's out of them. People with 16 million skills with battleships worth 200 million in ship and mods can't even swat an anoying 250k frigate without 3 months of skilling up - then still maybe not.
Someone said that Torps were not supposed to hit frigate - but that is exactly what they have been doing for 2 plus years.
Ya hit the nail on the head with that one... It's all i'm hearing from corpmates at the moment... We all fly 2 or more races and some fly all races, just a pain when you can't hold your own on a cruiser or even a frigate... thankfully high gunnery skills and amarr bs's trained way up as well as gallente... it'll all even out... ina few months!
Mine or Die. |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.07.06 05:17:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Rafein on 06/07/2005 05:18:51
Originally by: darmoth
thats about what it is now. Weather you beleave its a nerf or a balance the fact is you can't change an entire empire's combat system in one patch and expect people to spend weeks training to get back wre they were. when the other 3 empires are not nearly as effected as the caldari who's primary wepon is missles.
Um, they did it for 3 of 4 empires when the gunnery patch went in.
And it was balancing. Gunnery has weapon tracking issues, where large turrets will struggle to hit small, fast ships. Missiles now have that with the blast radius Vs. Signature strength.
Think of it this way, if your missiles blast range is 50 Km, and my ship is only 25 KM, I don;t get hit by all of the blast, and should only take half the damage.
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marioman
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Posted - 2005.07.06 05:30:00 -
[28]
would just like to comment on a few things:
I have no problems 1 shotting frigs with my 250mm IIs on my eagle or 425 protos on my mega, using my Eagle with arbalest assaults fitting with bloodclaws, fighting guristas, new missile skills lvl 1-2 i was doing 44 dmg (out of 100 total of the missile), now these are LIGHT missiles against a FRIGATE, something is wrong there i will say
Also me and a couple guys just got through running some COSMOS complexes, i was in an eagle, he was in a harpy, other guy in a sacrilige, the guy in the HARPY aggroed a group of SIX scorpions and 1 RAVEN, and tanked them all
Want to run lvl 4's solo? fight guristas with a high kinetic resistance AF (enyo/harpy) lol
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SkyAlt
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:02:00 -
[29]
You know, the only thing I'm ****ed about are all the missile launcher powergrid changes. All of my minmatar setups are ****** now. I can't fit anything remotely good. Its either projectile guns or missile launchers. That's it, I can't combine the 2. Well I can but I can't fit 2 light artillery and 2 standard missile launchers? WTF. Back to the world of uselessness they go.
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SkyLander
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:02:00 -
[30]
Whoops had one of my alts there that is me......
__________________________________________________
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ragemaster
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:09:00 -
[31]
of course people are going to be angry ccp took away their ability to fight to me it sucks to much to fast i tried to solo a lvl4 mission in a tempest without launchers!!!!! and got pwned by frigs balance ya thats balance for ya so i sit in a station for 4 months or more to train skills while i pay for nothing......i dont think so
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Veneth
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:11:00 -
[32]
heh to all you idiots that said to load up light missiles.. did you actually try it?? no? ooh.. maybe you should. we took pot shots an ABANDONED Punisher with light missiles.. 30 damage.. 40 damage. one good hit for 90. oop.. 50.. 30..
try it before you say people are whining. Missiles suck
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:13:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Look at the concept of a torpedo in real life. A weapon that's just an explosive with an engine on it. You have to fire one directly at a slow or stationary target to even hope of hitting.
Imagine a small motorboat circling around a warship. Imagine that warship trying to hit it with torpedos.
Same idea when your Raven launches torpedos at an orbiting interceptor.
Well, I believe its just not the torpedos that is an issue, other missile boat ships been affected too. I think there is a few unhappy crow pilots out there as well.
btw, there is torpedos of today that is quite fast tbh, they came a fair bit since ww2 
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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ragemaster
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:19:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Look at the concept of a torpedo in real life. A weapon that's just an explosive with an engine on it. You have to fire one directly at a slow or stationary target to even hope of hitting.
Imagine a small motorboat circling around a warship. Imagine that warship trying to hit it with torpedos.
Same idea when your Raven launches torpedos at an orbiting interceptor.
lol there is no water in space a torpedo in space can be highly manurvable and besides that a small charge will do alot more damage in space
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:22:00 -
[35]
/me thinks back to the days when the cry went up "OMFG My 1400's dont hit anything eny more. I used to be able to kill a frig in 1 shot. I might as well go use 200mm's on my Tempest."
All you Raven pilots are simply feeling just like the rest of the world did when tracking was made effective on big guns/lasers/rails.
I have a raven and its been way overpowered for a long time. Thats why they were number one most popular BS out there. This just brings them into line with the rest of the tier 2 BS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |
MacMillan
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:24:00 -
[36]
Well ive tried all missiles with a few of the new skills, tbh I dont have much of a problem with the "nerf-a-balance" 
Yes I agree I thought raven was past it now but then I realised I can fit 4, yes 4 Large guns to it instead of launchers. With a target painter 2 and webber on board even my 1 mil sp in gunnery can take out frigs and cruisers.
So when my missile skills are up I dont see much of a problem, its only for a little while 
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BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:19:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Look at the concept of a torpedo in real life. A weapon that's just an explosive with an engine on it. You have to fire one directly at a slow or stationary target to even hope of hitting.
Imagine a small motorboat circling around a warship. Imagine that warship trying to hit it with torpedos.
Same idea when your Raven launches torpedos at an orbiting interceptor.
Well, I believe its just not the torpedos that is an issue, other missile boat ships been affected too. I think there is a few unhappy crow pilots out there as well.
btw, there is torpedos of today that is quite fast tbh, they came a fair bit since ww2
The Soviets had a torp that was designed to lie on the sea floor, listening for a ship to pass over head. When it picked up a signal - it was capable of rising out of the deep at up to 1000 feet a second... amazing
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:20:00 -
[38]
Edited by: BIRDofPREY on 06/07/2005 07:22:47
Originally by: ragemaster
Originally by: Kage Getsu
Look at the concept of a torpedo in real life. A weapon that's just an explosive with an engine on it. You have to fire one directly at a slow or stationary target to even hope of hitting.
Imagine a small motorboat circling around a warship. Imagine that warship trying to hit it with torpedos.
Same idea when your Raven launches torpedos at an orbiting interceptor.
lol quote]
Very wrong - on so many levels...
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: J0an0fArc
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
Balanced? LMAO!!!! yeah right... my interceptor its harder than my raven does... And if they were balanced, I wouldn't be traning 5 new skills just to hit like a Battleship should hit and thats before i decide to go with Tech 2 launchers. If CCP calls that balanced then my Apoc shouldn't be hitting for 600plus damage per shot.
as far as the 750k rats, yeah that hurt a bit. not too worried about it. and for the highways, after being in 0.0 5 months, lol thats not a whole lotta jumps people... try transporting 50 or 60 jumps to safe space and then lets here it...
Battleship class turrets or missiles were designed to shoot battleship targets. All large turrets have either range or tracking limitations which result in consistent misses on frigate targets, doing zero damage. To believe your nuclear warheads should do full damage to frig targets from 0m to 150km makes me chortle at your intelligence ;]
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:01:00 -
[40]
Now missiles truly are a backup weapon on Battleships. Now I can fit smaller launchers on my Typhoon without feeling like retard.
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Grand Agitator
Rabid defender of the Homeworld voice
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capt
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:03:00 -
[41]
Edited by: capt on 06/07/2005 08:09:37
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
hmmm lol weren't you one of the loudest advocates of the "inflation theory" allegedly caused by the isk grinding of lvl4 mission runners?
Near mineral prices can hardly be called inflation huh? 
Whatever fits the rethoric eh?
Ah well I'm not worried about the highways being gone, now I can fully develop my potential to build one of the largest monopolies on certain mods in 1 or 2 regions.
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
To believe your nuclear warheads should do full damage to frig targets from 0m to 150km makes me chortle at your intelligence ;]
Actually I never quite got the logic behind the fact that any missile would do less damage to a smaller target than it would do to a bigger one.
Childish example if you must:
If I throw with a dart at an ant I will have rather a lot of trouble hitting it, depending on distance and the speed of the ant.
However, if I do eventually hit it, I won't be just scratching his lil' insect armour now would I..... No I would splat his poor body.
I would understand the logic of smallers targets being much harder to hit by missiles like you have with large turrets. But the part where they're doing less damage to smaller targets is just being my grasp of logic....
poster does not condone any cruelty towards animals and can not be held responsible by any actions against animals allegedly cause by this post
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Shittake
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:31:00 -
[42]
Edited by: ****take on 06/07/2005 08:31:55
It seems that those folks who are complaining about the "supposed" missile nerf either cannot read or do math. DigitalCommunist summed it up very well (even though he is a miner-ganking pirate). READ the descriptions of the new skills. DO the math. REALIZE that torps should not kill frigates.
Believe me, I've spawned many a night in deep 0.0 with may alt is his Raven and did very well but always wonderedt why torps could kill frigates when large guns could not. It was UNBALANCED and needing changing.
Oh, and by the way, you can actually try different loadouts, see how they work. If you are one of those "I have a single loadout becuase it always works" kinda Raven pilot, then either start thinking or quit the game because you will be disappointed.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:38:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
turn based strategy games,
Nice wordplay on the fleet-lag situation, I'm liking it
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We come in peace. And tanks. |
Esrev Inu
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:54:00 -
[44]
Call complaining people whiners if you like. How ever, the decision will be done, as always at all other games as well, if the paying customer accepts the product or not. If the customer is not satisfied, he will no loger pay for the product.
My personal view of the patch:
Closing highways feels like harrasment for me. More stupid senseless flighttime which was no fun already and it is much more difficult to do inter region trading now.
The missile change is nothing else like a downgrading of the existing powers and additional endless skilltrainings to get a small piece back, what we already had.
After all not much interesting REALLY new stuff, especially not for the young pilots and for the small corps. To get Freighters and Dreads most pilots are far away from.
I hope you are able to accept criticism, which is always a very personal point of view, without killing me by calling me a whiner.
I will pause this account until further changes. Good bye.
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Slipknot Korn
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
Nuff said, 100% agree.
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Thomdril Merrilin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 08:57:00 -
[46]
Best patch EVER.
This has been the smoothest patch in history and should be set as a benchmark for all future patches tbh.
0.0 is now more profitable than empire and the Raven isnt a 'Win vs Everything' ship. Gratz CCP!
Originally by: Oveur
EVE Online - even the forums have PVP
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:10:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 06/07/2005 09:11:20
Originally by: capt
Edited by: capt on 06/07/2005 08:13:58
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
To believe your nuclear warheads should do full damage to frig targets from 0m to 150km makes me chortle at your intelligence ;]
Actually I never quite got the logic behind the fact that any missile would do less damage to a smaller target than it would do to a bigger one.
Childish example if you must:
If I throw with a dart at an ant I will have rather a lot of trouble hitting it, depending on distance and the speed of the ant.
However, if I do eventually hit it, I won't be just scratching his lil' insect armour now would I..... No I would splat his poor body.
You are right. You never really got it. ;) Afaik. :)
Here is how I understood the devs explanation:
-> The missiles dont actually hit their targets. <-
They explode when they are at a given distance(in relation to signature strength i guess). Slower missiles blow up further away since they are expected to be outmaneuvered if they try to get to close. Smaller missiles can react faster and fly closer.
So not only will torp blow up further from frigs than BS's - but since the frig is smaller it will also receive a smaller portion of the blast.
So a better, but still not perfect :), analogy should be you trying to hit the ant with handgrenade - knowing it is somewhere on the half an acre in front of you.
The above is way open for corrrection. But at least thats how I understood it.
Trak Cranker |
Loftur sterki
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:24:00 -
[48]
Typical wheaning over these missile changes. Tom'b bat has beaten my lasers to waterpistols, and Caldari pilots whean cos they cant solo a 5/10 complexex... try that in a Apog..
And to pirates with bad sec is the npc sec nerf really a issue? They all have alts doin theyr **** in empire anyway. Maby the wheaning is all about plp have to train skills for using missles now, like I had to train for months for my T2 lasers......
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:29:00 -
[49]
Some of the stuff in the new patch is just ridiculous. Like making all the new skills insanely expensive, then acting like its a moneysink...
Moneysink my arm, minor setback for the ritch, slap in the face for the poor...
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Tbone
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:31:00 -
[50]
I love this patch. Might be my favorite so far since release. I finally feel ships are pretty balanced and on my end, graphics run smoother. But yes, a new patch does come with bugs, and I have seen my fair share.
Tbone rating 10/10. GREAT JOB CCP!!!!!!
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Unholy Killboard
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pheadrus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:37:00 -
[51]
totally hated this new missile tweaks. Now they are alomst useless for me. Well, offcourse I can spend couple of months and spend tons of ISK to help my missiles get back to what it was before or start training new skills to use other type of weaponary but come on..! THIS IS A GAME AND I`M PLAYING IT TO HAVE FUN.... I don`t care if anybody thinks this tweaks were necessary, it`s more realistic or whatever, but i`m not having as much fun, and I`m not going to play anymore. Not like CCP or you guys gonna care if i play or not, but i`m out....
end of transmision.....
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:38:00 -
[52]
Hate to say it and boost the ego ;), but i gotta agree with the digi man over there.
Removing highways might, shock horror, make it seem like there's this huge universe out there, rather than just a few systems on the highway. Oh, dont get me wrong, it means i have to travel a fair bit to go rescuing slaves and killing slavers, but im very glad that its not just a 6 jump to and fro anymore.
And as for missiles, im afraid its common sense, big turrets cant hit small frigs very well (without mods and skills at least) so why should torps? And as I fly minmatar that means that im going ot have to train a whole plethora of skills to make my few missile slots count, but again, I aint too bothered about that if it balances up the game.
The increased powergrid on launchers caused some concern for us minmatar players, because we have rather low powergrid and any increase in pw requirements gives us lotta trouble, but im guessing thats why they introduced the new advanced weapon skill?
All in all, and from what ive seen, its a very good patch. Just take a while for everyone to adapt, which can only be a good thing.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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TheDrinker
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
totaly agree!
the majority of people who are complaining and whining are just selfish, they look at the game ONLY from their point of view, and dont give a f*** to logic or to other players, Digital made some very good points/explanations, which cannot be negated in ANY way
accept the game as it is and REALIZE that its far better now (well some things still need to be sorted out - security gain), and dont bring here stupid excuses such as "my raven does less damage than my interceptor" coz you already know its NOT true
TheDrinker
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Plekto
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:45:00 -
[54]
So stop your whining already. Put a mixed loadout on the BS, get in close, and slag the idiot with your lasers.
Note - this is the main reason, on real ships, they have mixed loadouts to handle various types of engagements. The one-weapon-kills-all scenario was clearly not intended from the beginning, so it's been addressed. Specialize in this sort of strategy or not - but the fact that any fool could buy a BS and drop missiles on it and kill huge amounts of stuff without even trying - that's gone. Never should have happened to begin with.
Btw - heavy lasers and short-range weapons DO chew things up quite nicely. Try some sometime. :)
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:54:00 -
[55]
Originally by: capt
Edited by: capt on 06/07/2005 08:13:58
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
hmmm lol weren't you one of the loudest advocates of the "inflation theory" allegedly caused by the isk grinding of lvl4 mission runners?
Near mineral prices can hardly be called inflation huh?
Whatever fits the rethoric eh?
Ah well I'm not worried about the highways being gone, now I can fully develop my potential to build one of the largest monopolies on certain mods in 1 or 2 regions.
Near mineral price is the cost of the minerals it takes to produce the thing with little to no profit for the producer who went out of his way to make it for you. I never said anything about those minerals being at BASE NPC PRICE, which you are so wrongly implying here. Which would easily be the case for say ... tritanium, if that was the only thing you could do in high sec space and not go off killing battleships. Hence the inflated cost of low end minerals because no one is mining them, and the low cost of megacyte, because everyone is getting it from drone missions.
I'd say "good try, though" but it wasn't. I'm not that stupid. ;\
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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Cpt Rhet
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:39:00 -
[56]
Pffftt...come on guys...so what if you don't like the changes. I don't like them all...but come on..it's EVE...EVE! Last time I tried to quit I went through withdrawl. Goverments should schedule this substance before someone dies from going cold turkey. |
Devix Sorax
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:41:00 -
[57]
why the hell does CCP allways give the so called players of eve everything they complain and whine about ,and the new patch makes us all noobs again real nice to waiste 20 months on nothing |
Deryk Blacke
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:43:00 -
[58]
Missiles do not bug me.
The change in routes do not bug me.
Could probably get used to the chat text.
Feeling like I am running at 640x480 while docked bugs the Hell out of me. The little chat people thing hanging down into the chat text area bugs the Hell out of me.
Running two clients much smoother than before is great.
Again, it is mainly the GUI . . .
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Sweetpain
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:00:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
CCP releases one of the most godly patches ever, making EVE even more like a vast Homeworld simulation. In a way its a bit like some classic turn based strategy games, in terms of getting the resources to build outposts and dreads and putting them together. The improvements are amazing, possibly bigger than Exodus.
And people threaten to quit, whine all over the place, and troll every thread with crap about quitting EVE.
?!!!!!?!?!!!!?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!! Somebody help me understand wtf is going on? Or a whiner clarify why people are hating on the patch?
Im not one but i been named one before, not that it matter what people name other for on boards like this, but i could try to explain it.
CCP patched with a lot of new toys mainly aimed for the rich people in eve.
So offcourse the ones that are not rich or have a lot of skills saved up on their characters will not like the patch as much as the ones that are loaded with isk and mainly have trained skill they dont really want the last 8-9 months or so.
for someone that have spent the last and first two weeks getting missiles skills the patching might at first glance seam like a nerf since they now have to spend even more time on missles skills, while for someone that have maxed all their missles skills more then a year ago only see it as a day more training of new skills he or she actually want again.
Now the rich experienced player will see the patch as a great addition to the game, while the poor unexperienced one will see it as items way beyond their reach and just yet another hindrance along the way to catch up.
now offcourse the rich bored and experienced players come to the boards to complaint about the unhappy new people that dont have a isk to their name complaining on the patch they didnt like, so with one swordstrike and two post the rich experienced player and the poor inexperienced player is reduced to the same type of people by the board community and both labeled whiners.
That about sums it up Dark, basically its some people that dont like it, or would prefer something different then what they got, and some people that got what they wanted, now they aregueing about whom's right and in the process invent names to call eachother. Nifty eh?
like for the purpose of this post i could have named myself the whiner and you a man. But why bother its only names. its the opionions of the person that post that matter not what names we invent on eachother.
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Ridgy
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Missiles didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. Big difference. A nerf would be a reduction to their damage output. Which by the way, got INCREASED because of new skills and the potential for readily available tech II launchers. The only people whining about this are those who have been abusing the god-like powers of torpedo spam to get isk they would not otherwise be able to get with their crappy skills and experience.
The security thing was a huge whine factor, but in the end the Devs stated there were overall increases. I for one will adapt.
Highways getting dropped, was to promote RP and stimulate diverse markets. They were only added with a patch in mid-Gemini as a result of about only 3500 people playing EVE during peak times and not being able to get even simple things like cruisers or frigs was killing it for new players. Those who can adapt will end up richer as their stuff will sell for more, if they are the only ones supplying it. Those who whine and threaten to quit are usually the ones who have gotten too used to paying near-mineral price on everything right out of Yulai.
Only my second post in 6 months, but I just wanted to pick up on a few points. When I first started I had a choice of race to pick. 25% chance I picked Caldari. I had no idea the differences, it was just a guess. I then spent time training caldari type skills again as that was the direction the game sent me in. OK other races use turrets. I had no idea what damage they did. If i recall correctly a guy in our corp does close to 1200 damage with a perfect hit from a 1400mm gun.
I dont ask for him to be restricted, and would not laugh if he was. He spent time training the skills put infront of him, like I did. He chose his race I chose mine. Basically what has hacked me off to the point of starting over with a different char is that I have probably lost 1 to 2 months training time for something that was not my fault.
Yes, its a game, yes its not that important, but when you put time into anything and its taken away through no fault of your own then that is dissappointing, and a bit de-motivational.
I will pick up and carry on probably, but I totally understand the frustration.
Flame away
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Alerce
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:25:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Alerce on 06/07/2005 21:27:41
you know why people complain.
Their heavy launchers cost suddenly 100 powergrid instead of the 60 before.
Sure you got a new skill, that reduces the powergrids of turrets by 10 percent when its maxed trained, but that still means, you can only fit 1 heavy laucher if you could fit 3 before.
Sure you can fit smaller launchers, but they dont shoot that far with their light missiles, compared to heavy missiles.
Sure you can train the new correspondending skills, that increase fligth time and speed.
BUT that still means you can only shoot with 1 launcher far enough for your ship.
Who cares about radius damage difference and all, who cares that your heavy missile does less damage vs a small ship. Its just more fun for the game, but the problem lies, the way too big increase in powergrid costs of launchers.
Totally it means, if you can still fit your launchers of a certain size, there is no problem at all really with the new things and some people do complain a bit too much about that part.
BUT if you can not fit the desired size of launchers anymore, you have no way to overcome it. Smaller launcher that does more dps then before, but will always be shorter range, then the heavy launcher range u had before the patch. So for those people: the damage over X range has been seriously nerved and no skills maxed or whatever can fix it anymore.
No you need to remove mwds, afterburners or shieldboosters to save enough grid to fit the same desired type of launchers again.
But these removals are no option for 90 percent of the setups, because they are vital to them.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:10:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Alerce
Edited by: Alerce on 06/07/2005 21:27:41
you know why people complain.
Their heavy launchers cost suddenly 100 powergrid instead of the 60 before.
Sure you got a new skill, that reduces the powergrids of turrets by 10 percent when its maxed trained, but that still means, you can only fit 1 heavy laucher if you could fit 3 before.
Sure you can fit smaller launchers, but they dont shoot that far with their light missiles, compared to heavy missiles.
Sure you can train the new correspondending skills, that increase fligth time and speed.
BUT that still means you can only shoot with 1 launcher far enough for your ship.
Who cares about radius damage difference and all, who cares that your heavy missile does less damage vs a small ship. Its just more fun for the game, but the problem lies, the way too big increase in powergrid costs of launchers.
Totally it means, if you can still fit your launchers of a certain size, there is no problem at all really with the new things and some people do complain a bit too much about that part.
BUT if you can not fit the desired size of launchers anymore, you have no way to overcome it. Smaller launcher that does more dps then before, but will always be shorter range, then the heavy launcher range u had before the patch. So for those people: the damage over X range has been seriously nerved and no skills maxed or whatever can fix it anymore.
No you need to remove mwds, afterburners or shieldboosters to save enough grid to fit the same desired type of launchers again.
But these removals are no option for 90 percent of the setups, because they are vital to them.
You're right I don't really mind the changes to the missiles themselves, it's the fact that the launchers ruin my setup that ****es me off.
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^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^
GDBT is recruiting! |
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