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Trit requirements on capital ships unrealistic

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
anter	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:47:00 - [121] Originally by: TheNecromancer the biggest a single player can get today..is a BS..GREAT :( lame You made BS sound like small.
Amaron Ghant	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:48:00 - [122] We¦ve needed an ISK sink for ages. What we have now is an ISK Blackhole. I couldnt be happier. Hmmmm think i¦ll dig out my mining geat and go molest a few veld roids later. Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!! Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner

Oveur	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:48:00 - [123] Originally by: TheNecromancer the biggest a single player can get today..is a BS..GREAT :( lame Uhm. No. You can get a Freighter or even a Dreadnought. You just have to work more to get it if you are alone - and far more rewarding if you did it all yourself, although it might take a couple of months _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.

Kipkruide	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:50:00 - [124] freighter -> outpost, nuff said.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:53:00 - [125] Originally by: TheNecromancer the biggest a single player can get today..is a BS..GREAT :( lame Freighters are not out of reach of a single player. One account with a large-barge trained char could mine enough to get themselves a freighter in a couple of months. About as long as it took me to mine up my first BS in a cruiser (back before ospreys got mining bonuses). Dreads are not out of reach of a single player either, they're just not very useful to a solo player. Heck, even an outpost could technically be built by a solo player (1-man corp in a 1 corp alliance), but again, not especially useful to him.
GreyMana	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:55:00 - [126] Originally by: Amaron Ghant We¦ve needed an ISK sink for ages. What we have now is an ISK Blackhole. I couldnt be happier. Hmmmm think i¦ll dig out my mining geat and go molest a few veld roids later. ISK Blackhole? You mean all the shuttles (which limit the max Trit price to 3.6) and other items which are sold by NPCs in bulks to get easy trit/pyer/mex? (CCP please nerf these items). Other than the BPOs there are no big ISK sinks/blackholes. Producers pay miners for minerals, customers pay producers for the ships.
Amarr knight	Posted - 2005.07.07 11:57:00 - [127] This is totally off topic but..... I think freighters are a nice way to solve those giant veldsper roid problem. Nobody mines them and they have grown so big. Makes it really hard to move around a asteroid field. Its time for them to vaporize.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:02:00 - [128] Originally by: GreyMana ISK Blackhole? You mean all the shuttles (which limit the max Trit price to 3.6) and other items which are sold by NPCs in bulks to get easy trit/pyer/mex? (CCP please nerf these items). My local trit prices have already reached the shuttle-refine price - given the quantities of trit moving on the market, I expect to see tens of thousands of shuttles being bought in bulk within the next week. Hopefully that will force CCP to sort this out.
Jubeli	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:06:00 - [129] I love it, I really think that finally a new challenge has arisen and a new way to start co-operating in Empire. The highways are gone so the freighters will be able to move a lot of things in one go, all them extra jumps you think. I say "no more extra trips!!". The freghter pilots and producers will be able to start a new market for miners, placing goods in neat location. And we shouldn't forget the part where they will be able to haul Dreads to other locations for new attacks (so we'll be seeing pirate hired players shipping dreads now will we.. most interesting.....).. Freighter production and piloting is not a way of hauling, it is a new way of living.. eh.. playing I mean.. Thank you CCP for a nice new challenge. /Jubeli ps. To see the new dread will prolly feel like meeting the first m0o BS 2 years ago, damn he was HUGE and we couldn't stop him!! heh..
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:06:00 - [130] With everyone whining about their proffessions and ships, im starting to think, we might just have reached balance Lesson learned from what the battleship became. And thank you for the efforts of giving the players a reason to play the game again. Were getting there, slowly. Top job ccp! :) cheers [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg

TheNecromancer	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:07:00 - [131] let me quess..the bpcs for all needed would be around.......aaaaahh..to much :( come one... I was so much hoping to get this dreadnought..but the price tag..seems to high..and now that it can be in 0.5..the price seems even higher... so..what can a carebear do now ???? I need somethink to aim for.... any hints ?
Genevieve Blue	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:08:00 - [132] Edited by: Genevieve Blue on 07/07/2005 12:08:51 Originally by: Matthew Originally by: GreyMana ISK Blackhole? You mean all the shuttles (which limit the max Trit price to 3.6) and other items which are sold by NPCs in bulks to get easy trit/pyer/mex? (CCP please nerf these items). My local trit prices have already reached the shuttle-refine price - given the quantities of trit moving on the market, I expect to see tens of thousands of shuttles being bought in bulk within the next week. Hopefully that will force CCP to sort this out. I thought prices for npc goods reacted to demand, should not the price of shuttles soon also be rising?
Merv DeGriff	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:10:00 - [133] First, tritainium is the basic structural material in EVE. It's what we make girders and beams and bulkheads from. In any thing we make it is the bulk and the actual size. In a ship that's about bulk, it will be a bulky number. It carries 1.0010^6 m^3 of material... You are complaining that: 1.00 10^6 m^3 = (1.00 * 10^2 m)^3 So that means that one side of our BoRgÖ frieghter cargo bay is 100 meters long. Assuming since EVE engineers are total pimps of hull design and can make *INSANELY* rigid boxes with 0 super structure, we will just assume a meter thickness of trit all around our box Ergo: [(101m * 101m * 101m)-(100m * 100m 100m)]/ 0.01m^3 = Tritainium units in perfecty* and structureless cargo hold walls. That's 30,301,00 just to make the walls of that cargo hold. Now throw in superstructure to support that box, in motion and subject to the inertial stresses we insane capsulers subject them too... Did we mention that these ships are not BoRgÖ cubes? Yup, so inflate that wall's surface area some to acount for the ineficiencies of having to withstand acceleration. Oh, and the superstructure too... So game balance and economic reasons aside... It makes freaking sense. Or I need sleep, a better calculator, and the actual ratio of this thing's dimensions. --------------------- Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldy they rode and well, Into the jaws of death, Into the mouth of Hell.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:16:00 - [134] Originally by: TheNecromancer let me quess..the bpcs for all needed would be around.......aaaaahh..to much :( come one... I was so much hoping to get this dreadnought..but the price tag..seems to high..and now that it can be in 0.5..the price seems even higher... so..what can a carebear do now ???? I need somethink to aim for.... any hints ? Mine adn prodeuce and sell capital ship components of one type (cargo bays ftw). Set up a sales point and organise mroe carebears to come sell in the same system -> create a trade hub. When you've finally gotten your own freighter, expand your buisiness using the imense logistic capability of that ship. Go explore new markets, do inter-empire trading. There are many challenges in logistics and economics in eve. But ALL of them require you to organise multiple people to join your plan. For a solo industrialist it'll always be a matter of following and adapting rather then setting the trend and forcing your will on the market. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:20:00 - [135] Originally by: HUGO DRAX So do people still want to nerf jetcan mining????? Yes "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Tenashi	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:31:00 - [136] Edited by: Tenashi on 07/07/2005 12:33:41 Originally by: Oveur Originally by: TheNecromancer the biggest a single player can get today..is a BS..GREAT :( lame Uhm. No. You can get a Freighter or even a Dreadnought. You just have to work more to get it if you are alone - and far more rewarding if you did it all yourself, although it might take a couple of months not true oveur, as replied to his post, a month of agent grinding with 3 accounts and can afford 2 all by urself edit, pre-patch possible atleast, farming guris extra`s from 3 agents
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:33:00 - [137] Originally by: Genevieve Blue I thought prices for npc goods reacted to demand, should not the price of shuttles soon also be rising? I know this happens for trade goods, but as far as I know actual useful kit supplied by NPC's doesn't price-shift, at least not significantly. I guess we'll have a good test-case soon to find out if they do, and if so what it takes to move them. Besides, there are simply so many NPC sell orders for shuttles that you could spread your pruchases around in every station in the system to reduce the impact.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:41:00 - [138] Originally by: Arud The game needs this BAD!!!! one good example, on hugi.is they have a bunch of questions eve players can answer and then they get published. Kinda get to know the players. One player had about 1m skill points and had already lost three ravens!!! A FSCKING ONE MONTH OLD CHARACTER HAD MANAGED TO GET 3 RAVENS AND LOST THEM!!! That's right, he LOST them. And he'll keep on losing them. Heck, he'd probably lose a Raven if he tried taking on me in, say, an AF. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:42:00 - [139] Originally by: Maya Rkell And Rod, there's really no point to Freighters beyond ship and amo hauling... T1 modules are NOT worth hauling for hours in a freighter to get anywhere, and T2/named modules can't be sold in wide enough variety or bought with enough varience in cost to make filling a freighter worthwhile. I did a bit of rough-guess maths on this, and I don't think you'd need to get the freighter anywhere near full to make a trip with it worthwhile compared to hauling the same amount in Iteron V's. For a 10-jump haul, assuming the iteron got to around 220m/s (which mine does fully expanded), and the freighter gets to about 75m/s, no instas in use, freighter takes 3x as long to warp as the iteron, then for anything above around 90k m3, the freighter won. Even if you say the freighter needs 3 escorts, but the industrials can sneak through solo, you still only need 360k m3 to make it worth using the freighter. Which is still a lot, but still means even a half-full freighter with 3 escorts beats the equivalent Iteron-gang.
Galk	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:51:00 - [140] Well you might call it interaction. Often though that interaction relys on good faith (spose droping 100 million trit in somebodys lap is going to require that) My only gripe is i cannot secure my investment aside from anything other than in good faith. I would be more than happy for somebody to build my dreadnaught/transport if there was a secure system in place to make sure i didnt lose all my hard work. Due to the sanctioned attacks on my character, i can't trust anyone other than myself, there are many people in the game that would happily steal all my work and feel justified in doing so. So i ask for a secure system or mechinism to prevent abuse of such byom deals, as i have no intention of letting all my isk fly out the door leaving me pennyless and scraping it in the gutter. -------- "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers." 'A Streetcar Named Desire'

Arud	Posted - 2005.07.07 12:58:00 - [141] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Arud The game needs this BAD!!!! one good example, on hugi.is they have a bunch of questions eve players can answer and then they get published. Kinda get to know the players. One player had about 1m skill points and had already lost three ravens!!! A FSCKING ONE MONTH OLD CHARACTER HAD MANAGED TO GET 3 RAVENS AND LOST THEM!!! That's right, he LOST them. And he'll keep on losing them. Heck, he'd probably lose a Raven if he tried taking on me in, say, an AF. thats not the point the point is on one month he managed to get a raven 100m insurance 30m fitting 30m loosing raven but basicly the fitting another raven for insurance money new insurance 30m new fitting 30m loosing raven new inusrance 30m new fitting 30m This is just a roughe estimate on 280m a one month old character managed to gain
Laughlyn Vaughns	Posted - 2005.07.07 13:09:00 - [142] Why all the talk of peopel gettin killed mining trit? y'know u can get veld in 0.5 upwards, it may not have much but a good 0.8 system hold a fair amount, my covetor with 3 mod strip II's and 3 Veld II crystals gets about 1132m3 of veld a minute and my mining drones pull in about another 100m3 a minute. i just switch between mining and combat drones to take down the small NPC rats and have another corp guy hauling. we're only a small corp with a couple miners but 70hours mining time wudnt be so bad between 3 of us. any corp with at least 5 covetors cud pull in the minerals for a freighter in a week or two depending on what other minerals are required. the freighters take a lot to build but thats the idea of it. its a BIG ship so its gonna be a BIG job. am sure when they first built the thhe new Airbus they didnt look at the BP of it n say "oooh f'kin hell look at what we need for this thing, we'll be here ages building this" nah, the thing is massive and just moving the parts took em weeks by boat and road, use ur heads a bit and think a little logic, Massive things need massive requirements and a lot of hard work dont just expect it to fall into ur hangar with a few refined Battleships.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.07 13:15:00 - [143] Originally by: Laughlyn Vaughns Why all the talk of peopel gettin killed mining trit? y'know u can get veld in 0.5 upwards, it may not have much but a good 0.8 system hold a fair amount, my covetor with 3 mod strip II's and 3 Veld II crystals gets about 1132m3 of veld a minute and my mining drones pull in about another 100m3 a minute. They're probably referencing the gangs of suicide-gankers who had a spree of taking down barges in high-sec systems. The barges are so fragile it's not hard to pop one with a kestrel gang. Hopefully the changes to sec-status bonuses on rats will at least slow that down a bit now.
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2005.07.07 18:55:00 - [144] Originally by: Oveur Dear Foomanshoe, You didn't get it. Eternally yours, Oveur Dear Oveur, Your right, Perhaps you should explain to me how limiting freightors to such a small minority improves 0.0 logistics. Eternally yours, Foomanshoe _______________________________________________
Karl Borhman	Posted - 2005.07.07 20:07:00 - [145] Originally by: Domalais I'm happy to say that most people will lose lots of money buying these BPOs. Look around the forums and you'll already see several people that rushed out and bought ALL relevant BPOs with no mind to the cost or potential profitability. Conclusion: Some people have too much money for their own good. Many of them will soon find themselves parted from it, and I fully expect to see researched capital ship and capital ship component BPOs for sale well under NPC sale price. I seriously doubt someone has ALL the BPO's for a freighter. Possible, but damn unlikely since: 1) BPO's are spread out to make collecting all 5 necessary for complete freighter production - and I doubt this early yet, that everyone knows where to find every type of component BPO needed; 2) the cost of any Freighter BPO plus all associated component BPO's is at least 6.5 to 7 billion isk. And that's not exactly chump change; 3) Even if one corp has the isk for all the BPO's necessary, they still won't have the productive capability or desire to do all that mining. Firstly, because you will never see 30 alliance members in covetors mining trit in 0.0 - they have bigger fish to fry. Secondly, because getting trit in 0.0 isn't as convenient as getting it in a "safer" system and bringing it in - this is where subs come into play; 4) Factor in production times and you've got a real pickle on your hands. 75 cargo bays x 10,000 seconds each and you're talking at least 8.5 days worth of manufacturing just for one complete set of components. That doesn't even count the mining time. Or losses from pirates. 'Cause we all know it's gonna happen. :) You will never see researched capital BPO's for sale, let alone UNDER NPC prices. There's simply no way someone is going to spend 6 weeks to drop the ME on any of this stuff by 1 then just let it go. If they would, they aren't very smart since the items can be produced and brought to market much quicker. And BPC's? Forget it. It takes much longer to produce one of these than the items themselves. CCP was very smart about this. Expect to see Freighters and Capital ships built by the effort of many smaller and mid-sized subcontractors with supply parts sold directly to those rich isk manufacturers holding the BPO's that can stomach a large % of the risk. But rest assured, NO ONE is going to be losing money producing components for capital ships or the ships themselves. Not the coponent producers, not the ship builder and not the person transporting them to the production point. Wait and see ...
Domalais	Posted - 2005.07.07 20:14:00 - [146] Originally by: Foomanshoe Dear Oveur, Your right, Perhaps you should explain to me how limiting freightors to such a small minority improves 0.0 logistics. Eternally yours, Foomanshoe That's easy. When freighters are limited to a small minority (those who need them and can afford them), there becomes an economic opportunity to owning a freighter. The owners of these freighters will be able to see profits by providing logistic services. If everyone and their momma had a freighter, everyone would use them only to supply themselves, thus "improving 0.0 logistics: (sorta) but leaving 0.0 with no market. Markets, my man... markets.
X'Alor	Posted - 2005.07.07 20:21:00 - [147] seams about on par. mineral wise about 10 to 15 frigs pending what kind of frig = one low level cruiser 10 cruisers = @ enough for one BS 10 BS's = about enough for a freighter. looks fine to me. I'll do my best to refrain from the oh noes we have to mine veldspar comments. The absolute easiest mineral for everyone to mine for. looks people will have to leave gate blocks and organized some occasional team group rated corp mining productions and clear cut all the veldspar hey there's an idea, grouped missions. how bout a new leadership skill that gave a group mining bonus?
Mned Graydroggen	Posted - 2005.07.08 21:41:00 - [148] Quote: I did a bit of rough-guess maths on this, and I don't think you'd need to get the freighter anywhere near full to make a trip with it worthwhile compared to hauling the same amount in Iteron V's. For a 10-jump haul, assuming the iteron got to around 220m/s (which mine does fully expanded), and the freighter gets to about 75m/s, no instas in use, freighter takes 3x as long to warp as the iteron, then for anything above around 90k m3, the freighter won. Uh, afaik freighters are station to station only ships. So while your Ith is doing it's 10 j, the freighter basicaly boosts its engines and hops to destination. I might be mistaken here as the freighter bpo doesnt ask for jumpdrive components. Quote: I seriously doubt someone has ALL the BPO's for a freighter. Possible, but damn unlikely since: 1) BPO's are spread out to make collecting all 5 necessary for complete freighter production - and I doubt this early yet, that everyone knows where to find every type of component BPO needed; 2) the cost of any Freighter BPO plus all associated component BPO's is at least 6.5 to 7 billion isk. And that's not exactly chump change; 3) Even if one corp has the isk for all the BPO's necessary, they still won't have the productive capability or desire to do all that mining. 1. Took me about 10 minutes to find them all. 2. We did indeed stop our buying spree there for a moment, but only to spread the expensice over a longer period. 3. Sais who ? As mentioned earlier. This is (I think) what many older players have been waiting for. A goal, comparable to mining for the first Thorax BPO with an all frig crew. Or the Battleship with the cruiser crews. I am, as most I believe, at awe at the building requirements for these ships. But man, they look like something worth spending an old school mining opp or two on
Darkrydar	Posted - 2005.07.08 22:30:00 - [149] I got 82.5M trit from one NPC hauler spawn lastnight in 0.0. I dont see a problem. OMG, WE'RE UBER
SengH	Posted - 2005.07.08 22:32:00 - [150] yeah we got 12mil pye about a month back.. keep em comming and we'll have the resources to build a dread w/o ever needing to touch a mining lazer.



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