| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thor Darkwing
   |
Posted - 2005.07.06 05:47:00 -
[1]
most threads on the forum today contains some kind of "omg I can't do lvl4 missions solo or take out a frig with a single heavy anymore!"
have you all forgot about caldaris bonuses to hybrid weapons? (and EW)
Just give it a few days, try out diffrent setups and DON'T just go missils. Maybe now some more ships then the raven, ferox and cerberus can be used.
And now you'll know what it's like to be any other kind of piolet then caldari, you just can't do lvl4s solo (or atleasat not with ease)
and we don't whine about that=)
so all i'm saying is
remember that caldari are Hybrid and missil spec. not just missil.
|
Khargos
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 05:51:00 -
[2]
do caldari ships dont have bonus on hybrid anymore?
No.
They are missle and EW. thats it.
|
Rafein
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 05:52:00 -
[3]
Please do not use logic and common sense to counter everyone's complaints.
|
Emno
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 05:55:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Khargos
do caldari ships dont have bonus on hybrid anymore?
No.
They are missle and EW. thats it.
Are there more ships then BS.
eagle > lvl 4 missions
|
TheNecromancer
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:03:00 -
[5]
any1 got some setups for the raven now ??
I know..the new skills ofcause..but if I want to be able again to do
L3 missions..what setup could work ?
|
Mysterious Stranger
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Khargos
do caldari ships dont have bonus on hybrid anymore?
No.
They are missle and EW. thats it.
Name: Harpy
Hull: Merlin Class
Role: Assault Ship
Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to
Small Hybrid Turret optimal range, 15%
bonus to Shield and Armor Thermal
Resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and
Armor Kinetic Resistance per level
Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to
Small Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5%
bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per
level.
-------------------------------------------
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who |
Thor Darkwing
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: TheNecromancer
any1 got some setups for the raven now ??
I know..the new skills ofcause..but if I want to be able again to do
L3 missions..what setup could work ?
i suggest you buy a cheap brutix or something, since you've probably done lvl4 mission with your raven and have tons of cash.
BC or HACs are way faster to do 3s in
|
Dante Chusuk
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Khargos
do caldari ships dont have bonus on hybrid anymore?
No.
They are missle and EW. thats it.
*cough* Moa/Eagle *cough*
Optimal range bonus to hybrids if I remember correctly and a buff to shield boosting. Sure you fight a bit to fit two heavy launchers in your remaining high slots after fitting 4x250mm rails after the grid/cpu changes on launchers but I'm sure a bit of thinking will get you round this.
And my Scorp has been using 425s since the EW changes as I worked to jam BSs for a friend while he took out inties/frigs with his drones once CCP made the NPC rats have more "realistic" sensor strengths.
Yes I will admit to using a Raven to solo Lvl 4s when I needed a quick cash fix if my mineral buyer wasn't about but the main reason I went for Cald BS was the nice shield bonus you got on the Scorp.
|
Face Lifter
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:19:00 -
[9]
As caldari pilot, I gotta train a shitload of gunnery skills and a shitload of new missile skills. Other people only need gunnery to be effective :-/
|
Gaven Lok'ri
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Face Lifter
As caldari pilot, I gotta train a shitload of gunnery skills and a shitload of new missile skills. Other people only need gunnery to be effective :-/
Considering that every race has ships that use missiles.
This is not true in the slightest.
Another option... is equip a smaller missile rack to deal with frigs on missions.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
Kalened
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:26:00 -
[11]
Caldari battleships are relegated to EW ships for pvp now. I think with the EW changes from the last major patch and the missile changes in this patch its a bit much for most Caldari.
First thing i did today was log in and go hit a belt in 0.0 to make sure i could still pad my wallet for pvp. Torpedos still drop battleships and drones still drop frigates and cruisers. I'm not sure what all the crying is about.
In the long run with the missile changes the Raven might even be a better pvp ship today than it was yesterday. At least torps will get to their target before they warp off. I say give it time to sink in and for god sakes quit your damn whining.
|
Antuirc Halcyon
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Face Lifter
As caldari pilot, I gotta train a shitload of gunnery skills and a shitload of new missile skills. Other people only need gunnery to be effective :-/
As someone else pointed out, other races face similar problems. If anything Minmatar have been in this situation for a long time, as most of our high slot layouts prefer a 60%/40% guns/missiles. Off the top of my head. Typhoon 4/4, Tempest 6/2, Rupture 4/2?
Unless stated otherwise, the above post is my own view, and does not necessarily represent my Corporation or Alliance. |
Thor Darkwing
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Face Lifter
As caldari pilot, I gotta train a shitload of gunnery skills and a shitload of new missile skills. Other people only need gunnery to be effective :-/
as some other people said, not completly true.
Gallente for an exampel, need drones to be really effective.
minmatar have som missils aswell.
amarr... well.. they're just to stupid to use anything more then lasers ;) slave traders...grrr...
|
Domalais
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:42:00 -
[14]
Consider the Typhoon. Missiles, guns, and drones in equal proportions.
|
Avarice Pahl
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:50:00 -
[15]
Pardon me, but caldari have ships that are made to be missile boats, kestrel/caracal..etc.
Missiles are an alternative to gunnery, your suggestion implies a player who has gone entirely missiles should start training up gunnery as an alternative and buy a new ship that supports that.
That's not a solution, with all the new missile skills using missiles is even more clearly defined as an alternative to gunnery and yet it doesn't compete with it in the slightest.
These forums are filled far more with a thousand fanboy counters of get over it and use guns than complaints and it really doesn't help players who have focused on missiles in the slightest.
You are just going to make us more upset.
Btw, I'm a new player not some raven level 4 mission ho.
I fly a caracal and have gunnery 2 and small hybrid turrets 2. I'm training up the new missile skills now, I'm surely not going to start trying to train up all those gunnery skills and waste even more time and fall even further behind those of you who trained gunnery from the start.
Think before you post.
-Avarice-
|
Hella May
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 06:58:00 -
[16]
First the tempest, then the Apoc and now the raven.... Its always nice to see a race getting squashed and nerfed \o/
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
|
Thor Darkwing
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 07:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Avarice Pahl
Pardon me, but caldari have ships that are made to be missile boats, kestrel/caracal..etc.
Missiles are an alternative to gunnery, your suggestion implies a player who has gone entirely missiles should start training up gunnery as an alternative and buy a new ship that supports that.
That's not a solution, with all the new missile skills using missiles is even more clearly defined as an alternative to gunnery and yet it doesn't compete with it in the slightest.
These forums are filled far more with a thousand fanboy counters of get over it and use guns than complaints and it really doesn't help players who have focused on missiles in the slightest.
You are just going to make us more upset.
Btw, I'm a new player not some raven level 4 mission ho.
I fly a caracal and have gunnery 2 and small hybrid turrets 2. I'm training up the new missile skills now, I'm surely not going to start trying to train up all those gunnery skills and waste even more time and fall even further behind those of you who trained gunnery from the start.
Think before you post.
-Avarice-
Well i do see your problems, but i don't think them as problems really.
since this is not a way of making missilsboats worthless, just more balanced.
do you think it's fair that we who have m of skillpoints in gunnary and yadayada should just sitt by in our ships and watch a 2m skillpointer grind lvl4 missions in a raven without breaking a sweat?
the raven will still be a great ship agains other BSes, just like the tempest is a great ship agains other BSes, but totaly useless agains frigs and cruiser.
And sure, there's always alot of "whining" and "fanboying" around patches.
BUT don't go so far and say
"These forums are filled far more with a thousand fanboy counters..."
as i see it these forums are fileld with people able to argue and discus the problems/fixes/changes, moste with both parts listening and understanding the others idÚas.
If you want to have a flaming fanboy/whiner discusion, go to this page:
http://www.wow-europe.com
and check the forums.
There you cant even complaiunb about the server going down for the 4567 time the only hour of the day when you're able to play without geting 23 replys about "go **** yourself" or "stop whining you geek, go out and do sometinhg in the sun insteed".
got to say i LOVE the eve comunity since it mostly consider of mature people:D
|
smuld
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 07:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hella May
First the tempest, then the Apoc and now the raven.... Its always nice to see a race getting squashed and nerfed \o/
i just want to add megathron to your list off nerfed BS :(
for some time ago they did get there traiking from 10% to %5, so now they need more traiking just to hit a cruiser, but u still can hit a cruiser from 15km away with 425 tech2 guns :)
|
Thor Darkwing
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 07:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: smuld
Originally by: Hella May
First the tempest, then the Apoc and now the raven.... Its always nice to see a race getting squashed and nerfed \o/
i just want to add megathron to your list off nerfed BS :(
for some time ago they did get there traiking from 10% to %5, so now they need more traiking just to hit a cruiser, but u still can hit a cruiser from 15km away with 425 tech2 guns :)
with this you've just preoved that this isn't a raven nerf but a balance=)
see, now NO tier 2 BS can actualy be good against frigs and cruisers.
just like it's supposed to be
|
Dorgeo
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 08:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dorgeo on 06/07/2005 08:22:54
Edited by: Dorgeo on 06/07/2005 08:19:25
missiles,try a kestrel,im pretty new to this game,got a ferox havnt fully tested it with new patch but a little worried about keeping it in one piece,anyway my kestrel,this will only carry missile launchers,took it to a .4 belt [which i use as my base and have done for around a month with not to many problems]against 3 rats,barely scratched them with 30 missiles,had to turn and run before i was blown into oblivion,making me feel whats the use of a kestrel now apart from using it for fast travel.any ideas how to improve on the kestrels firepower as i cant use hybrids/turrets etc on it.
This leads me to feel that a kestrel will serve no purpose in eve or very little,which in effect will have cost me millions in isk as i have a BPO and produce them and now i feel will have a stock pile of ships nobody wants anymore as they only have slots for launchers which cause very little effect.
|
Grant Smith
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 08:30:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Grant Smith on 06/07/2005 08:31:25
I must say, i do beleive some of the posts do show just how pathetic some Caldari pilots are. It seems that they feel it's the end of the world that they now have to train 'Missile Skills' to be effective at using missiles and that Gunners now have a bigger advantage. What?!. Get real - it just means we all have to train skills and now you Raven pilots are standing in the same shoes that us Gunners have had to bare for the past months.
It's equalled the BS's in terms of firepower and subsequently, one can no longer sit a nub in a Raven and be able to compare to the firepower of a Megathron pilot with millions of SP in gunnery. I think the missile overhaul is for the better. For PvP at least.
Even so, PvE shouldn't have been as easy as it was in a Ravem, i personally know from experience that a Raven could easily clean out a level 4 mission without consiquences. Why are people complaining about not being able to hit frigs for MEGA damage?! One could always do what pilots primarially based in gunnery do - use drones. Whoa, now there is a thought. Or perhaps attach a couple of turrets, medium or small, to take out frigs or perhaps a large smartbomb, a good few volleys can take out any close orbiting frigs.
I appologise for anyone who takes offence at this but when i see pilots complaining about having to actrually train skills to get good damage kinda ticks me off - simply because ive had to do it as have many other pilots and you all seem to think it unfair.
Fair do's.  
|
Snaieke
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 08:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Grant Smith
Edited by: Grant Smith on 06/07/2005 08:31:25
I must say, i do beleive some of the posts do show just how pathetic some Caldari pilots are. It seems that they feel it's the end of the world that they now have to train 'Missile Skills' to be effective at using missiles and that Gunners now have a bigger advantage. What?!. Get real - it just means we all have to train skills and now you Raven pilots are standing in the same shoes that us Gunners have had to bare for the past months.
It's equalled the BS's in terms of firepower and subsequently, one can no longer sit a nub in a Raven and be able to compare to the firepower of a Megathron pilot with millions of SP in gunnery. I think the missile overhaul is for the better. For PvP at least.
Even so, PvE shouldn't have been as easy as it was in a Ravem, i personally know from experience that a Raven could easily clean out a level 4 mission without consiquences. Why are people complaining about not being able to hit frigs for MEGA damage?! One could always do what pilots primarially based in gunnery do - use drones. Whoa, now there is a thought. Or perhaps attach a couple of turrets, medium or small, to take out frigs or perhaps a large smartbomb, a good few volleys can take out any close orbiting frigs.
I appologise for anyone who takes offence at this but when i see pilots complaining about having to actrually train skills to get good damage kinda ticks me off - simply because ive had to do it as have many other pilots and you all seem to think it unfair.
Fair do's.
Word.
My names Blind Lemon Jefferson, 'nd I 'dun plucked out muh eyes fuh Jesus
|
Valerie Ganor
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 08:47:00 -
[23]
How about using cruise missles now ? They seem to be the best bet for your raven now if you're a pve guy.
-----------------------------------------------
Win the crowd... |
Thor Darkwing
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 08:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dorgeo
Edited by: Dorgeo on 06/07/2005 08:22:54
Edited by: Dorgeo on 06/07/2005 08:19:25
missiles,try a kestrel,im pretty new to this game,got a ferox havnt fully tested it with new patch but a little worried about keeping it in one piece,anyway my kestrel,this will only carry missile launchers,took it to a .4 belt [which i use as my base and have done for around a month with not to many problems]against 3 rats,barely scratched them with 30 missiles,had to turn and run before i was blown into oblivion,making me feel whats the use of a kestrel now apart from using it for fast travel.any ideas how to improve on the kestrels firepower as i cant use hybrids/turrets etc on it.
This leads me to feel that a kestrel will serve no purpose in eve or very little,which in effect will have cost me millions in isk as i have a BPO and produce them and now i feel will have a stock pile of ships nobody wants anymore as they only have slots for launchers which cause very little effect.
oh belive me, i'm 18months old and +5m skillpoints in spaceship command, i've flown most ships.
and you beeing able to solohunt pirates in 0,4 belst in a kessy pretty much shows how much missils needed a balance.
tech 1 frigs arn't supposed to be able to handle much more then lvl1 missions. that's why there are elit frigs and cruisers for lvl2 missions or <0.5 hunting.
since you're so new i suggest you try out some of the other race shipsp before complaining about a kessy not beeing able to take out 0,4 spawns.
|
Dorgeo
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 09:06:00 -
[25]
Wasnt so much of a complaint more a question about what would be best to do,see the thing is since that is how the game was when i started playing ,i just find it a little confusing as to why the sudden change,so really what i need to do is move to .5 or .6 space to continue playiing the way i have become used to.would that be correct.
|
Thor Darkwing
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 09:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dorgeo
Wasnt so much of a complaint more a question about what would be best to do,see the thing is since that is how the game was when i started playing ,i just find it a little confusing as to why the sudden change,so really what i need to do is move to .5 or .6 space to continue playiing the way i have become used to.would that be correct.
well, go back to higher sec and do some lvl1 missions, get a destroyer, the you could probably go down to 0,4 then save money for a cruiser. or even better. spec in frigs and get a assult ship. those are awsome.
reminds me of the old days, when you could fit 3(or was it 4?) heavy launchers on a kessy and load them with heavy missils or even cruise missils.
that total ownage=)
aldo, glad they changed it.
|
ErrorS
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 09:26:00 -
[27]
I do wish we had another missle slot. I'd love to fit an assault launcher or heavy launcher in slot 7
I'm happy with missles at the moment, I love their new range.. damage isn't that bad either (except for against interceptors, but gunners cant hit them either)
Tempest is really the only other ship that compares to the Raven.. except they get 2 missle hardpoints, two heavy missles, cruise missles or assault launchers are great against a couple of frigates/cruisers. We can fit two 250mm guns but it doesn't do **** for us.
Now that missles are a real weapon can we pretty please have a 7th missle hardpoint? I wanna specialize in missles.. but it's really hard to use missles as a primary weapon and guns as a secondary, they just act waaay too different. It's much different then using guns as a primary and missles as a secondary..
I have a lot of experience in the Ferox. 5 guns and 2 heavy launchers work awesome.. however, in the raven, 6 launchers and 2 guns really don't fit. Most of the time I find myself not using guns at all when I fit with 2 guns. (I have a few million in gunnery)
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Salvador Tintern
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 10:25:00 -
[28]
it is a bit of a hassle having to train up the new skills bu tlets face it, they are only 2-4x time mods, its not gonan take a great deal of time to get the main ones needed to make torps more effective agen, most caldari ships are designed for Missile Platforms and the binuses show that others are gun boats. there just isnt the skill bonus for a caldari BS with Hybrid bonuses, lets face it, its quicker to train the new missile skills than to train for an eagle to be able to do Lv4 misisons.
|
BigBadToughGuy
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 10:31:00 -
[29]
I think I see where most missile users are coming from with the arguement. It comes down to bang for the buck in terms of how much missile users have to spend on ammo than turret users. Missiles and torpedos should do a whole lot more damage than guns just based on principle. In the Navy, we don't shoot buildings with guns...we blow them up with missiles because they cause a whole lot more damage. When you add up the skill costs, training time and ammunition costs, then factor in the damage decrease due to "balancing", you now have an entire weapon system that is underbalanced in comparison.
The ships such as the Raven, for example, were designed from the beggining as missile boats. Simply suggesting everyone switch over to turrets isn't a bright idea. We all play our seperate ways, so I don't see the point of critizing people that use Ravens for their lvl 4 missions. Most people should have realized by now that those mission runners have helped a lot to bring the mega and zyd prices down that help to lower the prices on everything.
After looking at some of the numbers posted here by folks with more time than I do, I do see that there will be an overall increase with all missile types...eventually. However, it appears it will take 2-3 months to get them equal to what we had before that were balanced compared to turrets.
I'm sorry, but there isn't number crunching that shows missiles were anything near balanced with this patch. Turret users complain that a torpedo has the potential to hit at 450 damage at a cost of 6000 isk per shot and they need to use 10 rounds at 45 damage per shot at 40 isk each. I fired a test torpedo today after the patch and it hit for 65 damage. There isn't anyone that can call that balancing and keep a straight face.
|
Derisor
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 10:36:00 -
[30]
Uhh .... why cant the missile users load some standard missile launchers and missiles instead of traing to take out everything with heavy cruises and torps? Are they so dense that they cant mix it up a bit? Guns users have been doing that for a while now.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |