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Missile nerf

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Basileus	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:23:00 - [1] A bit over the top imho. To reduce the torp range from 90 km to 50 km, and reduce damage and ROF, is just too much. I'll train the specialisation skill, but that only improves the ROF. Un-nerf the nerf please CCP.
gizli	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:27:00 - [2] poor u ur actualy goin to have to train skills like use Laser/hybrid/projectile users.... ------------------------- Mwahahahahahahhahah! _____ (\_/) \| ___\|-(-.-)- - \|_\| Damn rabbit
Basileus	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:34:00 - [3] Originally by: gizli poor u ur actualy goin to have to train skills like use Laser/hybrid/projectile users.... You forgot the Amarr battleship skill, because a Raven is pointless now...
Lansfear	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:36:00 - [4] LOL, poor raven pilots have to actualy balance there ships to certain ship classes. Now feel the pain of turret users. /sarcasm OMG my siege launchers arent the end all weapon anymore, boo hoo. /sarcasm
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Basileus Originally by: gizli poor u ur actualy goin to have to train skills like use Laser/hybrid/projectile users.... You forgot the Amarr battleship skill, because a Raven is pointless now... No it's not. I believe theres a skill that increases flight time (or velocity - either will increase range) My caldari corp mates are pleased with the change. They realise that a few new skills are needed though. The least you could have done is read one of the 100's of other whines on the same topic and realised this.
Finix Jaeger	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:40:00 - [6] The missile changes has been announced for a loong time why are you whining now? ------------------------- Grand Agitator
Rafein	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:40:00 - [7] I'm sure when people have trained the skills, CCP will look at them and see if any tweaks are needed. But why complain if you don;t see how they will work when skills are trained?
Purgatori	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:44:00 - [8] Edited by: Purgatori on 06/07/2005 06:47:15 Edited by: Purgatori on 06/07/2005 06:46:52 Originally by: Lansfear LOL, poor raven pilots have to actualy balance there ships to certain ship classes. Now feel the pain of turret users. /sarcasm OMG my siege launchers arent the end all weapon anymore, boo hoo. /sarcasm it is not the same thing.. stop with the crap... ravens ware useless in fleet battles due to the fact that it was taking alot of time for the torp to fly mose people used ravens for hunting and missions not to mention everybody, no matter what ship they flew, had 1-2 cruisers launchers to take care of frigs... now the only frig/inty defence are drones... missiles beeing nerfed to the point of useless is a big problem for everybody.. so stop with stupid replys
TheJay	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:47:00 - [9] Edited by: TheJay on 06/07/2005 06:46:55 Originally by: Purgatori not to mention everybody, no matter what ship they flew they had 1-2 cruisers to take care of frigs... now the only frig/indy defence are drones... Not thought of using light missiles?
damicatz	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:48:00 - [10] Missiles aren't useless unless you refuse to train in the new skills. It's amazing that CCP goes through all this work to release a content patch for no extra fee; and announces the change to missles well in advance, and yet people still sit here and moan and complain.
Purgatori	Posted - 2005.07.06 06:50:00 - [11] Originally by: TheJay Edited by: TheJay on 06/07/2005 06:46:55 Originally by: Purgatori not to mention everybody, no matter what ship they flew they had 1-2 cruisers to take care of frigs... now the only frig/indy defence are drones... Not thought of using light missiles? yeah i did... but ain't working to good...
Basileus	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:25:00 - [12] OK, I did whine too soon . Apparantly there are Missile Navigation - Increased missile velocity and Missile Bombardment - Increased missile fly time duration. I'll have a go training them, in order to become uber again...
NoGun	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:30:00 - [13] ok i decided to do the math of the 2% added fly time 10 seconds... lvl 1 adds 2% which is .2 seconds 10.2 seconds... lvl 2 another 2% which is .204 seconds 10.404 seconds... keep it going u will notice it is a waste of time... in other words i will need to lvl a few skills to lvl 5 to get to a worse off position than i was before this patch of urs, this will take over 1 month of wasted skill leveling to get to some weak missiles which do no damage and have hardly any fly time. with such low fly time i have to get within 30km of a battle with my cruiser to actually hit the enemy, this is almost suicidal as some missions have 2 cruisers and a about 5 rats flying around, going into 30km range will get my shields eaten and my ship dead unless i fly out and never finish the mission because i cant hit noone with enough damage. and now that i do hit them because the damage is so low they actually recharge shields and armour by the time my next missiles are launched, i noticed u increased missile speed to 3000m/s for heavy and 1000m/s for light, but hey with 40 damage per missile and 15sec ROT who needs speed rite? i mean they might get to the target fast but by the time the next missile delivers its whole 40 damage they have repaired.
Golden Ratio	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:38:00 - [14] There are tons of new missile skills that, if you train them, will make your missles uber. Guided Missile Percision: (damage vs smaller ships) Skill at precision missile homing. Proficiency at this skill increases the accuracy of a fired missile's exact point of impact, resulting in greater damage to small targets. 5% decreased factor of signature radius for light, heavy and cruise missile explosions per level of skill. Missile Bombardment: Proficiency at long range missile combat. 10% bonus to all missiles' maximum flight range. Missile Projection: Skill at boosting missile bay propulsion systems and manipulating guided missiles' jet engines. 10% bonus to all missiles' maximum velocity. Rapid Launch: Proficiency at rapid missile launcher firing. 3% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level. Target Navigation Prediction: (damage vs smaller ships) Proficiency at optimizing a missile's flight path to negate the effects of a target's speed upon the explosion's impact. 10% decrease per level in factor of target's velocity for all missiles. Warhead Upgrades: Proficiency at upgrading missile warheads with deadlier payloads. 2% bonus to all missile damage per skill level. Not to mention there is also Rocket Spec, Standard Missile Spec, Heavy Missile Spec, Cruise Missile Spec, and Torpedo Spec...AND Tech II launchers of each type! Once your skills are up to reasonable levels you will be doing MORE DAMAGE THAN EVER vs appropiate targets, and be able to do decent damage even if you use slow clumsy missiles vs fast targets like interceptors, provided you are samrt and use a targetpainter and/or a web. Seriously ppl, have you ever tried to use a large artillary to shoot a frig? Try it out. Torpedos are "large" class weapons. At least you have options readily available to even make them do good damage vs smaller targets. Try using some drones or fitting a smart bomb or fitting an assault launcher if you are so bent on destroying tiny gnats with your uber battleship that untill now has been the only ship that can hit all types of ships with no penalty. Before, a person using a missile boat with 1 million skill points was easier and more effective to use VS npcs and even players than a person with 8 million skill points. Now it is balanced. Each basic type of weapon needs to be trained for to really do the good damage, and each type of weapon will have difficulty shooting things that it is just plain not designed to shoot, due to balance and realism issues. Slow clumsy torps are not ment to take out fast agile ships with ease. ---------------------------- The Golden Ratio has spoken.
Hastrabull	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:49:00 - [15] Originally by: NoGun ok as i said do the math behind it and give me numbers... because i showed u some basic numbers and 10.4 seconds for lvl 3 is a waste of a week of training .4 seconds for 7 days training... is it worth it? i think not and also with so many skills u think i have time to just train missiles ? ill be stuck in this ship for ever... this patch favours the long time players ... ive only been here for 1 month and they did this... alot of ppl i know want to quit now and so do i I play this game for over 1.5 year now. I trained hybrid/gallente for over a year... Any more suggestions? Concerns? I think this game is not for you... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Thor Darkwing	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Purgatori Edited by: Purgatori on 06/07/2005 06:47:15 Edited by: Purgatori on 06/07/2005 06:46:52 Originally by: Lansfear LOL, poor raven pilots have to actualy balance there ships to certain ship classes. Now feel the pain of turret users. /sarcasm OMG my siege launchers arent the end all weapon anymore, boo hoo. /sarcasm it is not the same thing.. stop with the crap... ravens ware useless in fleet battles due to the fact that it was taking alot of time for the torp to fly mose people used ravens for hunting and missions not to mention everybody, no matter what ship they flew, had 1-2 cruisers launchers to take care of frigs... now the only frig/inty defence are drones... missiles beeing nerfed to the point of useless is a big problem for everybody.. so stop with stupid replys the good for you that the missil speed have been boosted now=) I'd say missils boost ftw(to use that shortening:p)
Shittake	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:50:00 - [17] I think Golden Ratio said it well earlier in this post. Anyone who can actually read, then get the skills, will eventually do better than before. This was not a missile nerf. It was a balancing thing, with some cool bonuses to those who PUT IN THE TIME to train up those skills. The only people who I hear whining about it are noob characters who got into a Raven within a few months of creation and do more damage than turret-centric ships, which was unbalanced. You need to train long and hard like others in this game if you want to reap the benefits. Hell, noobs have the benefit of Advanced Learning skills which I never had from the beginning. And by the way, my protection alt flies a Raven and I'm happy with these changes.
Golden Ratio	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Golden Ratio on 06/07/2005 07:55:29 Originally by: NoGun ok as i said do the math behind it and give me numbers... because i showed u some basic numbers and 10.4 seconds for lvl 3 is a waste of a week of training .4 seconds for 7 days training... is it worth it? i think not and also with so many skills u think i have time to just train missiles ? ill be stuck in this ship for ever... this patch favours the long time players ... ive only been here for 1 month and they did this... alot of ppl i know want to quit now and so do i Missile Bombardment: Proficiency at long range missile combat. 10% bonus to all missiles' maximum flight range. Missile Projection: Skill at boosting missile bay propulsion systems and manipulating guided missiles' jet engines. 10% bonus to all missiles' maximum velocity. So letsa say your heavies go 3,000 m/s, for 10 seconds. Assuming your actual ship has no bonuses to speed or flight time (and many DO have a bonus) if you train these 2 skills up to level 4(which really does not take very lnog at all, maybe a week or 2 at most), your heavies will go 4200 m/s for 14 seconds = 58.8KM.... throw in a ship bonus of 5% velocity per level, at level 4 ship skill and your heavies will go over 70 KM. Not only is the range actually better than before, but THE MISSILES HIT THEIR TARGETS 2 TO 3X FASTER DUE TO THE FASTER FLIGHT TIME. Right now you are seeing weak damage becuase you have not trained the other 2 skills listed in my other post above which gives you better damage VS small targets, and you have not used your brain yet and realizxed that slowing your targets (by using a web) and/or increasing your targets signiture radius (by using a target painter) will drastically increase your damage. So now, if you train your skills up to a reasonable level and are smart enough to figure out how to use webs and painters, you have the added bonus of 3x missile speed AND you will do EVEN MORE damage than before due to the several pure damage modification skills and the new launchers that have come out. So seriously, shut up untill you've studied it out. Don't just whine because you think something has been changed which is not to your liking. The game was not only balanced, but made BETTER with the new missile buff that CCP just added. ---------------------------- The Golden Ratio has spoken.
Hells Bliss	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:52:00 - [19] Quote: Slow clumsy torps are not ment to take out fast agile ships with ease. hell be lucky that EVE torps are guided so raven pilots can't to lvl 4 angel extravaganza missions by themselves anymore...welcome to the club. seriously though, missile users still get off lightly compared to beam proj and hybrid users...i mean, look at the training time to specialize in torps...now look at the time to specialize in large arties. Yes your missiles are going to miss sometimes, my 425mm auto's miss a helluva lot (actually had a hit rate of 2% one day till i tweaked it some, and the damage? oh about 15-20 damage per hit ) I don't know why everybody is complaining anyways, it's not as if y'all have the skills trained yet, so you don't know how it's going to work.
NoGun	Posted - 2005.07.06 07:58:00 - [20] Edited by: NoGun on 06/07/2005 07:59:51 ok so then i need another month of skill training b4 i can actually do decent damage again sigh wat a waste
Ruffio Sepico	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Hells Bliss Quote: Slow clumsy torps are not ment to take out fast agile ships with ease. hell be lucky that EVE torps are guided so raven pilots can't to lvl 4 angel extravaganza missions by themselves anymore...welcome to the club. One other thing though, with the reduction of bounties + mission reward/bonus and the lack of loot drop, they are not worth doing in groups. So doesnt really matter if you can't do them solo, because do them in groups doesn't pay off and is a waste of time. If they want to push for groupings, then reduce the spoils to share, now that is rather daft imho. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
Golden Ratio	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:02:00 - [22] Originally by: NoGun do the math pls just show me some rough numbers like i did... u will notice that the skills r pathetic and way too expensive maybe 1 or 2 r worth it Ah.. you're either a troll or an illiterate chap. Did you not notice my 2 posts full of math and direct statistics? Try reading my 2 posts above. ---------------------------- The Golden Ratio has spoken.
Golden Ratio	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico One other thing though, with the reduction of bounties + mission reward/bonus and the lack of loot drop, they are not worth doing in groups. So doesnt really matter if you can't do them solo, because do them in groups doesn't pay off and is a waste of time. If they want to push for groupings, then reduce the spoils to share, now that is rather daft imho. On demand soloable battleship spawns which give good loot, good bounties, and GREAT mission rewards and are in 1.0 space needed to be nerfed a little, don't you think? You can STILL do many missions which give great rewards in empire, but now you wont get quite so much isk from it. This is balancing. Not giving it a slight nerf would be "rather daft." How can you argue against this? ---------------------------- The Golden Ratio has spoken.
NoGun	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:08:00 - [24] yes im a troll and i edited my post because i didnt c ur posts cos of lag ... anyways now time to waste 2-3million isk and 1-2 months training just missiles... sigh
Golden Ratio	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:13:00 - [25] Edited by: Golden Ratio on 06/07/2005 08:13:43 nogun: just quit now, and I'm not talking about this conversation, or eve ---------------------------- The Golden Ratio has spoken.
MrMojo	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:13:00 - [26] someone stated this previously "there are pilots and there are missile users" now - missile users get the opportunity to show they can actually pilot with the best of them. every BS pilot has had to gimp their set up if they want to take out frigates etc... except for missile users now we have a level playing field
Larsson7	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:14:00 - [27] Cant say I have found the missle changes to be too severe. Grantd i dont like seeing heavy missle bays on my Raven but - thems the breaks. Took out a Domination Commander spawn last night and it was ok. A little more tricky but certainly doable.
NTRabbit	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:14:00 - [28] Any serious missile user should have Missile Launcher Operation, Rockets, Standard, Heavy, Torpedos and Cruise missiles all trained to level 5 already, and probably have FoF and Defenders to 4 (just like I have). Training these new skills up to 4 should be a breeze -------- irc.coldfront.com - #eve-online - Channel Ops, the bastard unrecognised siblings of CRC ='[
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:15:00 - [29] Originally by: NoGun ok as i said do the math behind it and give me numbers... because i showed u some basic numbers and 10.4 seconds for lvl 3 is a waste of a week of training .4 seconds for 7 days training... is it worth it? i think not and also with so many skills u think i have time to just train missiles ? ill be stuck in this ship for ever... this patch favours the long time players ... ive only been here for 1 month and they did this... alot of ppl i know want to quit now and so do i Err, its 10% per level. insert snotty insult here
Shittake	Posted - 2005.07.06 08:16:00 - [30] Originally by: NoGun Edited by: NoGun on 06/07/2005 08:11:32 yes im a troll and i edited my post because i didnt c ur posts cos of lag ... anyways now time to waste 2-3million isk and 1-2 months training just missiles... sigh btw some skills u posted rnt even available in my region so here goes a 10 jump trip to get 1 Then fly to a different region. You know how to undock I would think? Is there a skill for that? Lord help us all that can actually read and do math and think independantly and are starting to get tired from people who cannot.

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