| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Khatred
   |
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:03:00 -
[1]
I find it hard to believe that it's client side since it affect several characters on different computers and in different locations.
I mean Pator - Korama is 16 jumps short and going in Jita (0.9) and safe is also 16 jumps and going in Niyabainen (1.0)? That's a sick joke.
Pator - Nonni safe or shor it's the same thing and goes into 0.3 - 0.4 when there is a safe passage trough Gallente border zone and The Citadel?
FFS, fix it.
|
Ryy Kishin
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:11:00 -
[2]
Soon (TM) 
Live Hard Die Young Leave A Good Looking Corpse!
|
Harry MacDougal
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:12:00 -
[3]
That might also be part of the remapping of the highway systems. They did say those were going to change, this might be how they were changed.
--------------
Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Spy, wrecking for 411.2 damage. |
Virgo I'Platonicus
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:12:00 -
[4]
MAte maybe u should read some patch notes, dev blogs, story line....u know SOMETHING?!
here let me help u.
Go to www.eve-i.com read all past 20 posts, that's not much mind u, but u may understand some things like COSMOS project, new world order, enlightment through readin....
ta-ta
|
Lufio II
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:14:00 -
[5]
The Autopilot nott beeing able to determine the safe route if there is one sounds like a bug, tho.
MSSI Forums
Provider of Prorator Blockade Runner Transport Ships in Domain |
Khatred
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:21:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
MAte maybe u should read some patch notes, dev blogs, story line....u know SOMETHING?!
here let me help u.
Go to www.eve-i.com read all past 20 posts, that's not much mind u, but u may understand some things like COSMOS project, new world order, enlightment through readin....
ta-ta
How about you reading my post again and again and again?
I said that THERE IS A SAFE ROUTE, just that the autopilot doesn't find it. DOH!
|
AvanCade
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:24:00 -
[7]
How do you know if there is a saferoute if AP cant find it? you must be a astreologist or something.
|
jbob2000
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:25:00 -
[8]
One of my corpmates has to do a 24 jumps round trip for some of his agent missions. WTF is thaT?
-----------------------------------------------
CANADIAN |
Khatred
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AvanCade
How do you know if there is a saferoute if AP cant find it? you must be a astreologist or something.
Pator - Nonni safe or shor it's the same thing and goes into 0.3 - 0.4 when there is a safe passage trough Gallente border zone and The Citadel?
Lacking reading comprehesion?
|
Hakera
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:30:00 -
[10]
clear your cache/machonet folder and your ap will work
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Khatred
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:35:00 -
[11]
Nope, doesn't work, already had to clear the cache folder in order to be able to set buy/sell orders, did it again out of curiosity, I highly doubt is't a client side issue.
|
Hci Triglava
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:37:00 -
[12]
maybe i wasnt clear enough or some ppl just dont wanna read and have things cleared up. THERE ARE NO SAFE HIGHWAYS ANYMORE. There. I've said it. Read it and weep. Whine all u want. No highways. At least no safe highways. And we knew that'd happen almost 2 months in advance.
Happy? (i know u're not but anyway) happy?
ta-ta cu l8r
|
Larno
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: AvanCade
How do you know if there is a saferoute if AP cant find it? you must be a astreologist or something.
Look for the system "Evuldgenzo". Then scan right and you will see there is a big void in space. Then scan left and for each jump line you pass over, check to see if a) it goes all the way to caldari space and b) it is safe. The only two safe routes to caldari space are through either A) Kaaputenen or B) Sivala. Then you can do the same for the other empires. The map is really simple to use. Just spend more than 60 seconds looking at it and you will understand.
|
Oz Draconis
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 16:48:00 -
[14]
I have the same problem. I've also cleaned out my cache directory. Manually, I can pick waypoints to force a safe route that takes about 10 more jumps. Why cant the autopilot also find that route? 5 Installations of Eve on 3 different machines and not one of them can find a safe route from Pator to Nonni. 
|
LeKjart
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 17:27:00 -
[15]
We are working on a new ui control in the client that will allow to tune the security rating 'tolerance' of the pathfinder, i.e. how strict it should be in enforcing security limits for 'prefer safe' and 'prefer unsafe' routes. In this way people can tune the paths according to their needs. This might be relased as a mini-patch at a suitable time, once it has cleared QA.
|
keepiru
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 17:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hci Triglava
maybe i wasnt clear enough or some ppl just dont wanna read and have things cleared up. THERE ARE NO SAFE HIGHWAYS ANYMORE. There. I've said it. Read it and weep. Whine all u want. No highways. At least no safe highways. And we knew that'd happen almost 2 months in advance.
Happy? (i know u're not but anyway) happy?
ta-ta cu l8r
See above. There are. lalalala youre wrong, happy? i hope not ^-^ 
-------------
|
Trepkos
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 17:46:00 -
[17]
*insert evil pirate laugh*
----------------
|
Shayla Sh'inlux
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 22:31:00 -
[18]
Yeah I noticed it's pirate galore in those systems between the empires. Especially the so-called 'safe' AP route Yulai-Niyabanen is infested.
My alt even had the honor of running into Tank CEO testing out the new missiles. Good thing cruise missiles suck vs frigates now.
Seems as if the pie-wat crowd will have a busy week until people have made new sets of insta's and figured out the safe routes with help of the map.
Tip: put 'selection lines only' on, then filter on security status and find yourself a safe route. It's really easy you know...
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 22:32:00 -
[19]
How can you tune the security rating considering 0.5 to 1.0 is "secure" and 0.1 to 0.4 is "unsecure"?
It's virtually a case of black and white and surely shouldn't be made "grey"?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Shayla Sh'inlux
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 22:40:00 -
[20]
Well, I would think it may be possible to tell your AP to 'take the safe route, but if you can safe me 6 jumps by hopping through a single 0.3 system then go for it'.
Or something among those lines.
|
Kadarin
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 22:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
How can you tune the security rating considering 0.5 to 1.0 is "secure" and 0.1 to 0.4 is "unsecure"?
It's virtually a case of black and white and surely shouldn't be made "grey"?
What if your sec status is such that you can't enter 1.0 systems, but can get into .5?
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 22:46:00 -
[22]
That means every system is "unsecure" to you?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Bombcrater
|
Posted - 2005.07.06 23:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Khatred
I mean Pator - Korama is 16 jumps short and going in Jita (0.9) and safe is also 16 jumps and going in Niyabainen (1.0)? That's a sick joke.
You're actually quite lucky - my autopilot doesn't work at all. It reports every destination as unreachable, no matter what path-finding option is set.
If I'm sitting in Ibura and ask it to plot a route to Torrinos, which is one jump away, it refuses. This affects the market, too, where all items are reported to be 10000000 jumps away.
|
Juniper
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 02:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Bombcrater
Originally by: Khatred
I mean Pator - Korama is 16 jumps short and going in Jita (0.9) and safe is also 16 jumps and going in Niyabainen (1.0)? That's a sick joke.
You're actually quite lucky - my autopilot doesn't work at all. It reports every destination as unreachable, no matter what path-finding option is set.
If I'm sitting in Ibura and ask it to plot a route to Torrinos, which is one jump away, it refuses. This affects the market, too, where all items are reported to be 10000000 jumps away.
Try turning off 'Stay out of pod-kill zones'.
|
Mitawyn
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 05:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hci Triglava
maybe i wasnt clear enough or some ppl just dont wanna read and have things cleared up. THERE ARE NO SAFE HIGHWAYS ANYMORE. There. I've said it. Read it and weep. Whine all u want. No highways. At least no safe highways. And we knew that'd happen almost 2 months in advance.
Happy? (i know u're not but anyway) happy?
ta-ta cu l8r
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! There are safe routes and we are finding them. Maybe you can't use the map or just don't want to make the effort, but they are there. Too bad the dunce of an AP can't find them.
|
Lag Fest
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 05:49:00 -
[26]
The autopilot simply is not working correctly at this point in time when mapping routes. After getting some very odd results, I tested this a little more. Set destination for a next door system. Sat on the gate. Set destination to next door, the autopilot insisted I needed to go 16 jumps... changing options for shortest, safest, low sec, pod killing zone, etc, did not change a single thing. I'm having issues like this all over. It's not cache related, has been completely cleared repeatedly. This is a problem with the patch, and hopefully it gets addressed VERY SOON.
|
Wear
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 06:41:00 -
[27]
This problem already existed long before this patch.
It happened already 2-3 patches ago that the auto pilot couldn't find the shortest way to some systems or even the safest but you could manually.
>>input sig here<< |
Matthew
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 07:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Well, I would think it may be possible to tell your AP to 'take the safe route, but if you can safe me 6 jumps by hopping through a single 0.3 system then go for it'.
Or something among those lines.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what it's doing right now, which is why the "safe route" setting isn't giving out the safe routes - at least not if they're around 3+ jumps longer than the unsafe one.
What it's probably doing is adding a "weight" to each jump depending on it's security status, so that the routefinder sees a low-sec jump as more costly than a high-sec one, and then searching for the route with the least weighted cost. Unfortunately, right now we have no control over that weighting, so we can't tune how averse it is to low-sec jumps.
LeKjart, assuming the weighting system is the one being used, would it be possible to let us adjust the weighting for each security level seperately, for ultimate AP flexibility? Then you could just have a set of presets for "safe only", "prefer safer", "prefer less safe", "unsafe only". Would also be really useful to have something in there that looked at your sec-status and faction standings and let you block out any systems where you'd get shot by the local navy, but that's probably far more complex to do.
|
belzebub1
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 12:10:00 -
[29]
I am getting the same problems, One system in my assets actually showed as being 1,000,000 jumps away LOL.
I am hoping they resolve this soon
![]()
Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link.
http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/ |
Chesty McJubblies
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 12:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: AvanCade
How do you know if there is a saferoute if AP cant find it? you must be a astreologist or something.
Yulai to Agil has no safe route according to AP. Stick in a waypoint at Grinacanne and there suddenly is a safe route.
Sarcasm 4tw, I guess.
|
Breathing Helps
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 12:30:00 -
[31]
Yup the AP is fubar try Nausschie to Yulai and its says it unreachable, amazing as its still only 4 jumps away thru secure space.
Then when u get to Yulai look for Nausschie and u told its 10 jumps away. Amazing since its still 4 jumps away and hasnt moved.
|
Khatred
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 13:22:00 -
[32]
Amazing job. Still not working. Keep up the good work!!
|
Rafein
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 13:25:00 -
[33]
Autopilot always had some issues.
I remember a few times before the patch, I had it set on safer instead of shorter. I had to make 3 jumps to get from New Caldri to Jita. All while there is a gate to Jita in New Caldari.
Apparently the extra 3 jumps were safer.
|
Xachariah
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 13:50:00 -
[34]
These issues are not new. The patch has merely increased them or made them more visible.
Pre-patch e.g. going from Aurcel to Jel always send you through egglehende. I made a post about it some months ago, but nobody seemed to care 
I donŠt mind to much, IŠm just wondering how many newbies will run through low-sec space right now, because they just donŠt know, that there are still safe ways.
|
Thidrek
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 14:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
How can you tune the security rating considering 0.5 to 1.0 is "secure" and 0.1 to 0.4 is "unsecure"? It's virtually a case of black and white and surely shouldn't be made "grey"?
A wild guess is that the autopilot today do not choose high security ONLY even if choosing high sec route. But that the pilot take in account travel distances among other (unknown) variables. Eg. if travel distances grow too big it also (partly) chooses some low sec systems.
If I'm right then thats whats Mr. Developer is talking about: fixing the autopilot so you can force it to always take high sec route only.
Anyways, like many other discussions about the patch and things, the truth is that the pirates wont get us anyway. They can sit at the gates (in the low sec systems) and wait for ever for us to jump in. Now who is the foolish one?
As long as there are high security systems we will stay in them. When no high sec systems no more, good bye. Either way the weak minded, sadistic and solving-problems-with-help-of-force-only pirates and others cant force us in to their game.
|
Khatred
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 20:42:00 -
[36]
I really fail to understand WTF was wrong in letting the old autopilot function as it did before adding some super duper new fancy autopilot with a miriad of options that will probably also be broken to start with.
|
Enemy
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 21:51:00 -
[37]
its called *Advancment*.....you know.....progress, making things easier over time.
if all the ppl in the world were like you whiners then we wouldnt have anything, no pcs, no flight, no cars, and no autopilot at all (remembers back to the begining of eve). This game isnt made for Khatred or anyone else inparticular.
noone is asking you to play
so why dont we all sit back and wait longer then, oh i dunno 2 DAYS after the BRAND NEW PATCH comes out before we have the whinefest.
|
Kerby Lane
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 22:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Enemy
its called *Advancment*.....you know.....progress, making things easier over time.
if all the ppl in the world were like you whiners then we wouldnt have anything, no pcs, no flight, no cars, and no autopilot at all (remembers back to the begining of eve). This game isnt made for Khatred or anyone else inparticular.
noone is asking you to play
so why dont we all sit back and wait longer then, oh i dunno 2 DAYS after the BRAND NEW PATCH comes out before we have the whinefest.
I dont see the point.
Khatred didnt tell he`ll quit.
He pointed to a bugged feature of AP and get response from CCP in the therad.
Whats wrong with it ?
What make you so angry and what make you whine about whine ?
|
Kerby Lane
|
Posted - 2005.07.07 22:09:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 07/07/2005 22:08:45
nm
|
Neoscar
|
Posted - 2005.07.08 00:17:00 -
[40]
Some of these difficulties might be due to the way the autopilot handles calculations over long distances.
For example: finding the shortest possible route between 8 systems takes 40,320 seperate calculations.
Finding the shortest route between 10 systems takes 3,628,800 calculations. With 20 seperate waypoints, it take the computer 2,432,902,008,176,640,000 calculations.
In early computers, finding the shortest course with 10 waypoints took 1 minute. Finding the course with 20 took four years.
Granted, there are ways to get around this problem. One is the nearest neighbor alrithogram, among others, where you choose the clostest posible waypoint, travel to it, then choose the next closest without traveling back to an origional waypoint. Because the eve autopilot has to make more calculations than the one I gave above (Checking to se if a system it traveled through meets givin criteria, as well as finding the route between systems, it doesn't surpise me that the programers took shortcuts to save procesing time clientside. Thus, the autopilot might not always give you the shortest route, or the safest, because it's taking shortcuts in an effort to return some answer, as opposed to returning no answer.
|
Khatred
|
Posted - 2005.07.08 01:28:00 -
[41]
Fact is that atm it does 0 calculations. Be it safe, shortest, try to stay out of pod kill zones. Same route every time.
|
Megadon
|
Posted - 2005.07.08 04:22:00 -
[42]
Well i'm glad i'm not the only with the problem. The AP is borked.
|
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2005.07.08 04:52:00 -
[43]
talked to khatred last night, hes seriously hindered by this and can't resume normal gameplay.
Which means he can't produce, which means i cant get my ships of him.
1 : Fix the AP
1a : Help him
1b : YAY he produces again, happy me :)
|
Thidrek
|
Posted - 2005.07.08 13:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mitawyn
Originally by: Hci Triglava
maybe i wasnt clear enough or some ppl just dont wanna read and have things cleared up. THERE ARE NO SAFE HIGHWAYS ANYMORE. There. I've said it. Read it and weep. Whine all u want. No highways. At least no safe highways. And we knew that'd happen almost 2 months in advance.
Happy? (i know u're not but anyway) happy?
ta-ta cu l8r
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! There are safe routes and we are finding them. Maybe you can't use the map or just don't want to make the effort, but they are there. Too bad the dunce of an AP can't find them.
Mitawyn (and many others) is right. You can pretty much get to any high sec system from anywhere. Sorry Pirates, but CCP did leave an ally (I would call highway since so long) between Caldari and Amarr, and same with other worlds. The only problem is that there is only ONE ally between each worlds making usually 10-20 extra jumps compared to before.
Hci Triglava must be among those who reads, but reads only things written by others and doesnt verify facts themselves. Typical watch-Bonanza-on-TV-and-belive-it-acctually-happened.
Having to go 20 jumps more than before won't force us wise and friendly (against other players) players to go low sec. As said before: Pirates, sit there at the gates waiting for us to never come ...
As to the map, the autopilot using high sec is working, but you also have to enter "Avoid pod killing zones". VOILA! It finds the routes. So far tested routes up to 40 jumps and it works. But must say due to the pod killing zone thing, the route it finds it a bit longer than the shorest high sec route.
|
Matthew
|
Posted - 2005.07.08 14:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Neoscar
Edited by: Neoscar on 08/07/2005 01:35:40
Some of these difficulties might be due to the way the autopilot handles calculations over long distances.
For example: finding the shortest possible route between 8 waypoinys takes 40,320 seperate calculations.
Finding the shortest route between 10 waypoinys takes 3,628,800 calculations. With 20 seperate waypoints, it take the computer 2,432,902,008,176,640,000 calculations.
Except that's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to find the shortest route between 2 waypoints, through a graph. Which in no way requires the n! operations you suggest - the only time that would come into play is if we were solving the traveling salesman problem. The Autpilot does not attempt to solve travelling salesman problems.
Originally by: Neoscar
Granted, there are ways to get around this problem. One is the nearest neighbor alrithogram, among others, where you choose the clostest posible waypoint, travel to it, then choose the next closest without traveling back to an origional waypoint.
Yes, lets actually use proper graph-following algorithms instead of brute-forcing the problem like a 1st day freshman.
Originally by: Neoscar
Because the eve autopilot has to make more calculations than the one I gave above (Checking to se if a system it traveled through meets givin criteria, as well as finding the route between systems, it doesn't surpise me that the programers took shortcuts to save procesing time clientside.
Except the eve autopilot uses sensible graph-following algorithms, so requres nowhere near the number of calculations you indicated.
Do you really think it does something as crude as calculate every possible route between A and B, and pick the safest/shortest/etc according to your settings? With the size of the eve graph, that would indeed take a very long time.
Graph-following algorithms can cut N! down to a much more reasonable scaling factor, and can do so while still being guaranteed to find the shortest route. They are also very amenable to weighting schemes and other forms of graph pre-processing. The fact that every move between node (i.e. each jump through a jump-gate) starts off as having exactly equal length means even more clever tricks can be used.
Lets take the function of "never go into a 0.4 or below system". This can be done by simply pre-processing the graph to remove all links attached to a 0.4 or below system. This is a very cheap operation, and scales as N (N = number of systems in the universe). The graph-following algorithm can then be run unmodified to give the answer required.
Now, lets consider a more complicated function, say, "Never go into a 0.4 or below, unless it will save me X jumps per low-sec system". Again, some simple pre-processing of the graph with weightings can help this enormously. All the connections in the universe graph have an implicit length of 1 (i.e. each one adds 1 jump to the route). You can apply a weighting to this. If we simply add a weighting to every jump connecting to a 0.4 or below, to make it length X, then our orignial graph-following algorithm run on the modified graph will give us the required answer.
The more complex question of "Never go into 0.4 or below unless it saves me X jumps on the trip, regardless of the number of low-sec systems used" can be solved with a simple running of 2 seperate route-finds (one with the full graph, and one with the high-sec only graph), and choosing a result based on the criteria specified.
In this way, the autopilot could return a route every time that 100% matched the criteria given, or report that one does not exist. And do it in a perfectly reasonable number of calculations. In fact, from the current behaviour, I believe the "prefer safer" option already uses a weighting system to help it "prefer" high-sec systems. It's just that the parameters aren't under our control, and set to inconvenient values.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |