I can afford to loose my Nyx... thats why i use it. It's more that CCP is making my Nyx useless other than killing caps, and more so useless to me because I am not in a giant blob alliance, and I cant change into another ship.

What? Do you have any idea how fast super caps die in fleet fights?

20 SC focused on my Nyx and I'm down in just under 4 minutes, thats with my hardners on and overheated.

100 man BS gang can down me in about 2 minutes after they neut me completely of any cap and turn off my hardners.

This is the reality, for all those who cry about supercaps having "MASSIVE" EHP and being indestructable. All this talk about supercaps have 100MIL EHP! Really?

X-type buff tanks, T2 rigs, implants, not in gang, hardners on.

Hel - 25 million EHP
Wyvren - 32 million EHP
Nyx - 36 million EHP
Aeon - 56 million EHP

Hardners off (it takes 50 BS each with a neut under 60 seconds to drain a supercap to 0 cap)

Hel - 7 million EHP
Wyvren - 9 million EHP
Nyx - 15 million EHP
Aeon - 23 million EHP

Yeah 100 mil EHP super carriers with no weakness that just cant be killed by subcaps! right.....

In this thread, I've read several very good reasons why the fighter change is a bad idea. You are right. Fighters should stay the way they are. The change would be unfair for carriers.

I dont disagree, however I dont deserve to loose a 26 bil isk ship because I could not deal with a solo random tackler by myself or small random nano gang with a dictor who never set out to kill a supercap.

My math was based on BS doing an average of 850 DPS....

so 16000 cap every 24 seconds, thats 20 neuts... total for the fleet.

Aeon, Revenant and Wyvern: 125000 (25 total Fighters + Fighter Bombers) Needs to be both ..50 would be cool
Hel and Nyx: 150000 (30 total Fighters + Fighter Bombers) Needs to be both ..50 would be cool

Okay I agree with you if you allow SC to dock so that they can refit for the situation, becasue I am guessing you have no idea the hassle in swapping firghters to FBs.

Are you people really believe that CCP will listen to anyone other than the goons that make the most noise and have the CCP in their back pocket? Do you actually believe that they will learn from their mistakes and not rush with the nerfs without listening to their paying customers that has spent thousands of dollars on this ****** game over the last nine years and instead make changes to please the goons? Do you believe that the letter form the head moron in CCP about learning from their mistakes is for real? Do you believe that they will address the real problem with EVE, which is the blob, NAPing and the numbers game instead of skill to PVP? If you do, than you are just as dumb as the retards at CCP. I for one learned long, long ago that these monkeys could not balance a game , appreciate their customers, and research and test the features of the game if their lives depended on it. I'm down to one account from the six I had when the game was fun and the way things are going, soon that might be not worth the money either.

The real core problem is not that supers are designed as cap killers. Giving subcaps better odds is all fine, but subcaps are not the designed weightclass in which to engage in. The problem is that no other capital is actually designed to fight capitals - short story short, fix broken dreads.
Siege weapons were fine in the days of RMR and served their purpose while sov was linked to POS. Newsflash, that's history. POS are engaged to annoy your enemy, force fights and flush a few isks into your wallet. They are an opportunity target now, not a tightly regulated core game mechanic.

So, dreads redux:
- remove the 2 target limit that was imposed on dreads because of station hugging moros pilots. supers take care of that problem all over new eden reliably and fast
- remove the remote rep restriction
- soften the tracking penalty in siege considerably
- switch the local rep boost in siege to +120/140/160/180/200% hull, armor and shield hp depending on dread level
- no warping / docking while in siege, but movement does not have to be restricted
- siege timer at 5 minutes is probably still a good idea

What do we achieve with this? We get an actual supportable, fully insured and comparatively easy to get into damage backbone for regular capital fleets that is not just breakfast any more. You will not come out of engaging a 250 supercapital fleet with a 175/75 dread/carrier fleet (again, failure to set up an unfair fight) scott free and you imho never should - but a considerable amount of supers will die, your losses will be easier to replace (isk, build time and build capcity wise) and you actually have - depending on actual fleet compositions and tactics - maybe even a shot at holding the field / forcing the retreat (wiping 250 supers with even numbers should for the time being be unrealistic I think). But this could actually generate nice combined forces fights.

As Titan proliferation increases, the doomsday will probably have to be looked at again. Then again, engaging 250 titans feels like it should hurt by sound alone, yet how much remains the question.

PS: by the way, what is it with all that 'no remote rep' nonsense. Are you all imprisoned in motsu or a 2005 timebubble? active tank stockholm syndrome?

PPS: and fix capital shield reload mechanics by making it like armor
Not even a sandbox needs passive (super)capital shield tanks

I again reiterate, with the changes on the Supercarriers, they need to be able to dock. Without the ability to rat or engage in anything other than anti capital/anti structure warfare which is such a limited role you need to allow them to dock so that the player can use the character in other ways, otherwise they'll just let those accounts lapse while not on campaign, costing CCP money.

Fine, give me a second...
Ok, Passive shield regen is 86, so I guess not.

Phobos w/ neutrons and 3x mag stabs (see: not how phobos is fit): 436 DPS

Nyx has 1064039 Shield EHP

Ignoring passive regen, it will take the Phobos
2440 seconds to break shields or 40.6 minutes.

Lets look at armor EHP
32,970,318
75,619 seconds
1260 minutes
20 hours

1875000 Structure EHP
4300 seconds
71 minutes

OR: 21.85 Hours

(this is using antimatter M because I am lazy)
For Void: 17.04 hours
This all assumes no damage loss due to shield regeneration

This is probably the highest dps thing you will come up against in a SC, it has to be in range of your officer smartbombs, and will run out of ammo at:

((315m3 cargo) / (.025 m3/charge) ) / (5* (charges / 2.89 seconds)) = 7282 Seconds
121 minutes
2 hours

So, there is no reason to think you will lose your SC to a solo Hic/dic. If he manages to sit on top of you in neut range and smartbomb range receiving ammo drops from his indy alt for 17 hours and you can not get someone to save you, you deserve to lose your SC.

If you lose it to his gang, you really should be more careful and deploy with support, and it is not to be considered losing it to a solo hic.

Point 5 - New ships - Titan Killers - should be introduced. Several people have suggested a new ship class be introduced that is damned expensive. Like 250B to build....

A) 50% tracking buff while in siege is huge. I shouldn't need to explain that to you.

make the log off timer longer
but to make it so you can have a ship in space for 23hours after its logged off. this is a step to far for even PL

There is no other alliance in EVE that can gather as many duders as goons & co can.

Tell me please, who is gonna use anything other than a odd triage carrier in a fleet fight? So why would a group of people pay CCP one extra sub to be stuck in one ship that you might use once i a while if u are lucky to have one dumb dude in range doing something stupid with his own super?

You can ask anyone you know that owns a SC or a Titan if they think its worth having up to 20 years worth of plex/gametime or an huge amount of subcapital ships (like...years worth of ships) + paying one extra sub so you can use it like... never.

Nerf logoff timer to 23 hrs max, take away drones, and nerf EHP by 20%... so tons of SCs die. Any of the most powerful entities have isk to replace any lost SCs very quickly... So populations of SCs go down... people cheer, all small alliances have had their SC fleets destroyed, build times are still as long and build costs still as high. Big alliances continue to hold massive fleets of useless SCs likely on accounts they have let expire. Everyone fights in subcaps... hooray?

Lol Subtarian so group A correctly predicts the 2nd most expensive and 2nd hardest to train (if not hardest to train due to immense drone skills 20m+) biggest ships in the game would be very powerful in groups. Lots of people see this ship as the best for the multiple uses and circumstances, so it becomes FOTM for the vets, therefor because some noobs havnt had time to train for them and cant beat these skilled vets they cry that their ships are OP, your argument seems to be flawless.

I still believe they need a certain amount of effectiveness against subcapitals, atleast some level of self-defence, as it has been said before, now a lone supercarrier is completely screwed if caught out, some people think this is a good thing, however I disagree and think it will be the death of supercarriers

sc drone bay
let them have 20 fighter bombers and 20 fighters and a small drone bay with about 500m3.

http://evedreams.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/46/
This guy sounds good.

What he is arguing is basic risk vs reward. You want the reward of a 20b killmail? Bring 20b in ships. Any ships. Even ignoring insurance and putting a fleet bs at an average 200 million, thats 100 fleet bs. I HIGHLY doubt you will find a supercap that got caught by 100 bs and lived to tell the tale.

First of all, please stop with those references to RL ships and RL money. This is a game, the only thing that should be considered is the effort that is put by someone into something.
...
Stuff

You realise that when supercaps lost their bubble immunity, Hictors hadn't even been introduced to the game yet?

Revelations II explicitly made regular Dictors the supercap-tackling hull.

Lucky I don't fly a moros, whit rate of fire bonus there gone be even more cap hungry, itGÇÖs like dropping a low slot...
And if you chance capacitor leves, that would mean extra tanking.

For a mother ship/super carrier (master of drones) it will be a bit odd if they won't master most drones any more.

And better stop training for t2 drones if you just gone fly dread/super/titan. What a waste of skill training for so many...

Super-carriers should honestly be able to carry 20 stealth bombers, 20 fighters, and at least have 5000 drone bay left to work with small anti sub-cap drones. Make them able to fight back in a Super vs. 100 sub cap fleet then be totally useless(maybe limit it to 10 drones(non fighter/fighter bomber), or give the Super a fighter tracking bonus? Making the super-carrier a sitting duck isn't the answer, people will stop using them. Dumbing them down, yes. The other changes are 100% great.

the easiest compromise is just to remove the drone number bonus from non fighter drones. so its back to the base 5 non-fighter drones if i have to use those types to defend myself and leave the drone bay as is.

Supers that are solo or in small groups are far easier to kill than those with 50 in gang. The upcoming changes will strongly discourage the people who use them in smaller engagements from continuing to do so, and will essentially force them to join a coalition with massive blue lists.

Your perception of "stay home we already have enough people" is fundamentally wrong. In reality the statement is "do not engage until we have a 2:1 numerical advantage." But with the cool new adjustments this will likely turn into "Never engage unless we have a 5:1 advantage"

I guess CCP is tired of this game.......

Ontopic:
Last erebus killed went down within 5 minutes...
How fast have CCP planned that the lagest ship in EVE should die ?
30 sec ?

Well as of right now, I'm on the test server with the new patch. Way to drop the ball CCP.

Hybrid balancing is great stuff, but I'm glad to see that once again, the older players in eve get screwed over. From the nerfs I'm seeing on here, you didn't listen to anyone in this thread. The massive Super nerf I'm seeing here is insanity. They are completely worthless.

Good job CCP on making Test and Goons now strong enough to push just about anyone they want out of Null. Seeming you just made the counter to their high member count disappear. Who needs skills points anymore when you can just have 3000 noobs.

Its getting more and more pointless to keep paying for a game that keeps alienating its older players.