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Sticky:New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 473	Posted - 2011.10.10 16:44:00 - [1] - Quote This is all good. You missed titan gun tracking - the biggest problem subcaps have - which is going to be an issue, but that titan fleets will actually die if you put them in the field may make up for that.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 473	Posted - 2011.10.10 16:45:00 - [2] - Quote titans with tracking computers / remote tracking links can reliably blap subcaps left and right
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 476	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:08:00 - [3] - Quote Cronyx Ravage wrote: Can someone explain why, exactly, it makes sense for fighters to have a hard time shooting subcaps? Theyre fighters, right? With a pilot inside. It would be like a Viper Mk.2 having a hard time shooting something the size of Colonial One, as far as cruisers go, a heavy raider to relate to frigates, or a frakin Basestar to relate to battleships. Making them only effective against capitals is like saying Vipers are only effective against Hiveships, Resurection hubs, or colony ships. Or a more real world example, F-16s are only effective against.... What? Something the size of an Independence Day city destroyer? (there is no real world exame for this size difference) game balance > what the names of things sound like they should do
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 476	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:11:00 - [4] - Quote Kel'taith wrote: So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on. I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes. "a smartbomb" "someone, anywhere, who likes you enough to shoot a single dictor in the 23 hours (probably actually forever as I bet it can't beat shield regen) it takes to grind down an SC"
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 476	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:15:00 - [5] - Quote xxxak wrote: After further thought, I am more and more disturbed that a super carrier cannot carry a full flight of fighters and FB. Can a Dev explain why this was considered necessary? preventing SCs from having overly large reserves of fighters/fighterbombers means they can be defanged by shooting their fighters, providing more interesting types of combat
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 477	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:21:00 - [6] - Quote Kel'taith wrote: Weaselior wrote: Kel'taith wrote: So a single dic could kill a SC now if it had enough ammo? This doesn't strike me as balanced. SC's should have some degree of defense against sub caps. It isn't often that enemy fleets field capitals or you get a titan tackled, even with metagaming. Essentially every SC pilot now has a ship that is only good for reinforcing structures. Just what I wanted to spend billions of isk on. I agree that they are too powerful as it stands but reducing drone bays, nerfing fighters(which already suck), and removing the ability to field other drones at the same time is too much. Perhaps you should consider implementing a single nerf at a time and see how that goes. "a smartbomb" "someone, anywhere, who likes you enough to shoot a single dictor in the 23 hours (probably actually forever as I bet it can't beat shield regen) it takes to grind down an SC" Even a ******** dictor pilot can orbit out of range of a smartbomb. im gonna guess the 'friends' thing didn't go well for you either
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 479	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:30:00 - [7] - Quote chunorris wrote: In 6 months, when this game will be ruined and goonswarm trololol CCP with his 150 dread fleet, you will rememer this devblog. Now, any 180 man hurricane fleet will kill a supercarrier fleet. That is not balance. Quote: Personally as a carrier owner I'd prefer to see the fighter nerf applied specifically on SCs and not on all carriers Lol. Personally, i prefer dont touch anything about drones in supers but you know, start crying with 6000 friends and put a csm in your life and ccp will do everyting you want. actually balance is precisely that, that the counter to a supercarrier fleet is something other than "a bigger supercarrier fleet"
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 479	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:37:00 - [8] - Quote I am vaugely suspicious that dreads will still have any role with this change. Their dps is still nothing impressive and they're made of paper compared to supercap fleets: their sole use is sieging pos (which SC's can't touch). They're the wrong answer for a hub or a station, and I think that's a mistake. Their role now is pretty much glass cannons, but they're not damaging enough to fill that role well.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 479	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:40:00 - [9] - Quote obviously with the 5m siege timer they can ninja towers better but that's a sort of niche role and not one that really justifies the training: it's now just something people who got the skills when they were useful will use on rare occasions
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 479	Posted - 2011.10.10 17:48:00 - [10] - Quote Misanth wrote: Evelgrivion wrote: Misanth wrote: A couple of goon-devs being higher-ups helps as well. Especially since they're good at posting zero content on forums and insulting the playerbase. This change was needed, to be perfectly honest. Super Capitals have been making EVE Online a worse game for ages by representing an absolute ultimate that is incredibly difficult to beat. The guys QQing about not being able to hotdrop with their super carriers to win smaller scale fights represent the worst of the problem these ships constitute, and they do it to the strongest degree. If this change that will drive you out of the game, good riddance to bad rubbish. To the rest of the players that left the game because of the utterly ludicrous power Super Capitals have held over the battlefield for the past two years, welcome back. To make these changes really stick though, the Titan tracking issue must be addressed alongside the extraordinary potency of slave implants. The slave set's bonuses should not apply to super capital ships, else the HP nerf simply will not have enough impact. Lol you should read through my posting history being making stupid assumptions. why would you ever think you're important enough someone should bother researching your posting history

Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 480	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:15:00 - [11] - Quote soundwave made a dumb once but is a whole lot better than the weeeeee incarna crowd and actually gets the spaceship part of eve
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 481	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:31:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Tallest wrote: Regarding Titan gun tracking: I am well aware of the issue and considered making changes to it. I decided against it for this balancing pass. We are still working on the winter release and this is not completely off the table. There will be public testing of these balancing changes on SISI and we are ready to consider further changes if needed. That's probably a mistake and you can figure it out pretty quickly in eft just how effective certain titans are against subcaps. However I'm sure we can demonstrate that effectively on sisi when we tracking link some titans and start blowing up subcaps at obscene rates. Keeping supercaps too powerful is much more of a problem than keeping them underpowered: overpowered supercaps make a lot of people irrelevant, underpowered supercaps make a tiny minority of people less relevant. I get that you don't want to over-nerf titans but this is going to mean that titans are still an overpowered answer to everything: thats just going to be kept in check (for a little while) by increasing the risk of deploying one. However I suspect you'll just see a move to even bigger titan fleets as a response.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 481	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:36:00 - [13] - Quote Jackk Hammer wrote: Are goons not capable of killing a carrier putting remote tracking links on a titan? why would you put the remote tracking links on a carrier
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 483	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:46:00 - [14] - Quote Jackk Hammer wrote: Weaselior wrote: Jackk Hammer wrote: Are goons not capable of killing a carrier putting remote tracking links on a titan? why would you put the remote tracking links on a carrier that is what the other goonNoob was saying...I guess he didn't want to say you guys couldn't kill a logi putting tracking links on a titan this is a dumb argument and you are a dumb person tracking links are stupid cheap and stupid effective and you can hide them nearly anywhere, and playing the "find the tracking links and destroy them while titans are blowing subcaps up with impunity" isn't a fun combat mechanic that aids in making combat interesting and balanced saying moronic things like "goonNoob can't kill the links" is annoying when you have failed to think through how you'd deploy the links to avoid them getting blapped (and this is stupid easy to figure out and you should have done it before posting) and keep them in numbers that avoid them easily getting cleared out before the battle is already over; you don't understand how the pieces fit together so you have no useful input on the effects of changing the pieces or failing to change them
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 483	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:54:00 - [15] - Quote Joshua Samson wrote: Lan Caden wrote: Cry cry.. "Your guns can hit my hurricane!" "They better hit 1,800 of your hurricanes before I explode." 1 Titan = 90,000,000,000 ISK 1 Hurricane = 50,000,000 ISK 1 Titan = 1,800 Hurricanes So thats what 2 weeks of botting for you and your comrades? hurricanes come from our technetium spigot
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 483	Posted - 2011.10.10 18:56:00 - [16] - Quote Jackk Hammer wrote: you're just another goonNoob talking what you know nothing about... stacking penalties combined with the fact that you end up with a higher tracking speed by using 3 x faction/officer tracking computers than having 3 x tracking link put on you means they are nowhere near as useful as you think. quotin dis so you can't edit it
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 483	Posted - 2011.10.10 19:10:00 - [17] - Quote Jackk Hammer wrote: David Carel wrote: Jackk Hammer wrote: you're just another goonNoob talking what you know nothing about... stacking penalties combined with the fact that you end up with a higher tracking speed by using 3 x faction/officer tracking computers than having 3 x tracking link put on you means they are nowhere near as useful as you think. I, too, fit my titans with Tracking Computers instead of Cap Rechargers. you guys are so dumb...how do you think the PL titans that **** you are fit? seriously i want you to go into eft and play with serpentis tracking links and figure out why all I bothered to do was quote your post so you couldn't edit it
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 483	Posted - 2011.10.10 19:13:00 - [18] - Quote wolftin21 wrote: Why in the heck Is CCP not going to boost the Black ops ships frist,as the black ops ship have been needing a boost for a very long time now,I suggest dealing with the black ops ships frist, then deal with the capitals. I know about the issues with the capital but, dont yall think the blops need the winter patch frist? if yall are wanting more pvp with the blops then boost them frist or put both the blops and the capitals patch in one.So get off yalls lazy butts stop nerfing/boosting with out hearing what the players have to say after all its the players that keeping the game and CCP alive, Am I correct? I am confindent that the pvp players of eve will argee with me. So chop chop with the blops boost and make eve even better on the blops pvp side. Thanks Wolftin21 i too wonder why subcap buffs were not discussed in a supercap nerf blog
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 484	Posted - 2011.10.10 19:16:00 - [19] - Quote Mik kyo wrote: Weaselior wrote: Jackk Hammer wrote: David Carel wrote: Jackk Hammer wrote: you're just another goonNoob talking what you know nothing about... stacking penalties combined with the fact that you end up with a higher tracking speed by using 3 x faction/officer tracking computers than having 3 x tracking link put on you means they are nowhere near as useful as you think. I, too, fit my titans with Tracking Computers instead of Cap Rechargers. you guys are so dumb...how do you think the PL titans that **** you are fit? seriously i want you to go into eft and play with serpentis tracking links and figure out why all I bothered to do was quote your post so you couldn't edit it Quoting to prevent edit. oh i'm not agreeing with the cap recharger guy either
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 484	Posted - 2011.10.10 19:19:00 - [20] - Quote David Carel wrote: Jackk Hammer wrote: Weaselior wrote: Jackk Hammer wrote: Are goons not capable of killing a carrier putting remote tracking links on a titan? why would you put the remote tracking links on a carrier that is what the other goonNoob was saying...I guess he didn't want to say you guys couldn't kill a logi putting tracking links on a titan https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=342709 Like that perhaps? that was a bad fit fyi

Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 489	Posted - 2011.10.10 19:48:00 - [21] - Quote David Carel wrote: 0.008 with 4x Serpentis Tracking Link, 0.009 with 2x Serpentis TC, both with Tracking Speed. But you can't always cynoout (cap <70%), and you have reduced neut resistance. Hell yeah. you'd use an officer tracking computer, but the point is the tracking links are a much better idea than filling your mids with more officer tracking computers
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 489	Posted - 2011.10.10 20:04:00 - [22] - Quote Mathias Karsten wrote: DevBlog wrote: ....so having your sub-caps take down fighters and fighter bombers will have more of an impact on the fight. When am I going to ever have drones turned on in my overview in the fleet fights described? It's a nice tactical idea for sub-caps to target them, but ... you just can't. you can't.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2587	Posted - 2011.10.11 15:03:00 - [23] - Quote Vile rat wrote: fwiw I hate supercaps more than just about anybody and even I can't think of a compelling reason that they can't dock. Seems like such a little thing to free up supercap pilots from boring endless hours of guarding a pos somewhere. ehp bricks repping a station that dock up whenever they go into low armor and get free repairs
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2587	Posted - 2011.10.11 15:12:00 - [24] - Quote Anile8er wrote: Weaselior wrote: Vile rat wrote: fwiw I hate supercaps more than just about anybody and even I can't think of a compelling reason that they can't dock. Seems like such a little thing to free up supercap pilots from boring endless hours of guarding a pos somewhere. ehp bricks repping a station that dock up whenever they go into low armor and get free repairs Simple, remove free repairs from sov stations. Or would that **** off the swarm? Its kinda like when my roaming gang is in Fountain / Delve in a cyno jammed system and some Goon / TEST guy in a carrier undocks on station, aggresses, docks at half structure and comes out with full hitpoints. Pretty gay huh? who cares about the money we'd just eat the cost or, since we get the money from repairs since we own the station, we'd refund it