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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:05:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 07/07/2005 09:10:19 it hink the authors idea is good, signed
the prob i have with the plates, is that u cant mount a bs shield ext on a cald crusier
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Sennju Zensu
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:12:00 -
[32]
btw, if you pu a 1600mm you sacrifice a ton of powergrid, and so, not able to fitt med guns, so you dont make lot of damage.
so better tank but less DPS, or better DPS ant less armor .... that's just a choice
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OzaLoni
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:26:00 -
[33]
What is the problem...... fit nos, web and target painter and thorax is in big trouble.....
At the end of the day, you usually never know what your going to face... but these are some of the more usual fitting items for pvp?
Thorax's have been popping bs's long before these changes came out so....? The Great Oz... |
Morat Jernau
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:29:00 -
[34]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edit- as for killing the drones one by one using turrets, I don't see that as feasible versus attacking the Thorax itself. With a 25m signature radius 700m/s speed, orbiting at 1km, and 440 HP each, it's going to take a bit to kill those 8 drones with cruiser guns... and while they're doing damage to you (as well as the Thorax if it's in range) sounds awful tough.
Killing the drones one by one works like a dream, just web them and they die very quickly. Give it a try - a Maller with frig guns works brilliant.
I think the main problem with the Thorax isn't that its overpowered, its more a lack of creativity on the part of people trying to kill them. |
Snaieke
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gunstar Zero I'd completely agree, the thorax is overpowered.
However, I'd prefer to see the other cruisers buffed.
Agree. Rather than nerfing a ship, for once we could see a class boost to fix the balance issue. Althought, I do know cruisers have got some lovin' which is good.
My names Blind Lemon Jefferson, 'nd I 'dun plucked out muh eyes fuh Jesus
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Pagefault
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:44:00 -
[36]
Do i get that right? Every1 complained for months that cruisers are so underpowered... now some1 was killed by one of these so "underpowered" ships, and we get a 2 page thread of whining and crying for TomB's nerfbat(tm)???? Omg... if thorax is overpowered: use it and stfu!!!
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Edoo
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 07/07/2005 08:56:35
Originally by: Edoo A bit of sense saves you from a thorax. No one ever kills the drones. If you do that you badly reduce the damage output. I wouldnt win any fights if they decided to kill my drones lol. And t2 drones will be expensive, and a bigger loss when they get shot In fact the t2 drone thing is gonna be a bit of a money drain.
Takes 5 detonations of a Medium Smartbomb to kill a Heavy Drone. With Energy Pulse Weapons to 4 that's 8 second intervals, or 40 seconds. During that period of time, 8 heavy drones can do 6400 points of damage (assuming Heavy Drones III).
Edit- as for killing the drones one by one using turrets, I don't see that as feasible versus attacking the Thorax itself. With a 25m signature radius 700m/s speed, orbiting at 1km, and 440 HP each, it's going to take a bit to kill those 8 drones with cruiser guns... and while they're doing damage to you (as well as the Thorax if it's in range) sounds awful tough.
a decent cruiser pilot kills a drone in seconds. especially when far away.
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:53:00 -
[38]
The plate idea is excelent. /signed
And take notice everyone, the plate idea would affect everyone, not just the thorax.
Another nerf would be to keep heavy drone sizes like they were before patch, the size that is. Then make the dronebay on the thorax alot smaller like it is now along with light and medium drone sizes. Keep the dronebay sizes battleships have like before the patch.
So what you have is this
Thorax Drone bay: 100 (with this change it only needs that for 10 medium drones) Apoc Drone bay: 1500
Heavy drone size: 250 Medium drone size: 10 Light drone size: 5
More in line with the ship sizes in general, might change the size of heavy drones down to 200 or 150.
The moral of the story for crusiers to use heavy drones is like crusiers to use battleship sized weapons.
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Edoo
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Posted - 2005.07.07 09:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Arud The plate idea is excelent. /signed
And take notice everyone, the plate idea would affect everyone, not just the thorax.
Another nerf would be to keep heavy drone sizes like they were before patch, the size that is. Then make the dronebay on the thorax alot smaller like it is now along with light and medium drone sizes. Keep the dronebay sizes battleships have like before the patch.
So what you have is this
Thorax Drone bay: 100 (with this change it only needs that for 10 medium drones) Apoc Drone bay: 1500
Heavy drone size: 250 Medium drone size: 10 Light drone size: 5
More in line with the ship sizes in general, might change the size of heavy drones down to 200 or 150.
The moral of the story for crusiers to use heavy drones is like crusiers to use battleship sized weapons.
no, because then thorax could never win a fight. It would be beaten by ANY decent caracal, maller or rupture pilot, + any assault frig, the list goes on. The thorax is balanced, just use your initiative on how to beat it.
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sableye
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:29:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 07/07/2005 09:10:19 it hink the authors idea is good, signed
the prob i have with the plates, is that u cant mount a bs shield ext on a cald crusier
hmm I have'nt tried in a few months but I used to have no problems mounting them on my caldari cruisers.
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true sight
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:30:00 -
[41]
Its broken? True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
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benwallace
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:37:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Edoo
Originally by: Arud The plate idea is excelent. /signed
And take notice everyone, the plate idea would affect everyone, not just the thorax.
Another nerf would be to keep heavy drone sizes like they were before patch, the size that is. Then make the dronebay on the thorax alot smaller like it is now along with light and medium drone sizes. Keep the dronebay sizes battleships have like before the patch.
So what you have is this
Thorax Drone bay: 100 (with this change it only needs that for 10 medium drones) Apoc Drone bay: 1500
Heavy drone size: 250 Medium drone size: 10 Light drone size: 5
More in line with the ship sizes in general, might change the size of heavy drones down to 200 or 150.
The moral of the story for crusiers to use heavy drones is like crusiers to use battleship sized weapons.
no, because then thorax could never win a fight. It would be beaten by ANY decent caracal, maller or rupture pilot, + any assault frig, the list goes on. The thorax is balanced, just use your initiative on how to beat it.
CLearly you don't know how to use a rupture as they will *****a thorax even a stabber will if you know how to fit and fly it --------------------------
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2005.07.07 12:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 07/07/2005 08:56:35
Originally by: Edoo A bit of sense saves you from a thorax. No one ever kills the drones. If you do that you badly reduce the damage output. I wouldnt win any fights if they decided to kill my drones lol. And t2 drones will be expensive, and a bigger loss when they get shot In fact the t2 drone thing is gonna be a bit of a money drain.
Takes 5 detonations of a Medium Smartbomb to kill a Heavy Drone. With Energy Pulse Weapons to 4 that's 8 second intervals, or 40 seconds. During that period of time, 8 heavy drones can do 6400 points of damage (assuming Heavy Drones III).
Edit- as for killing the drones one by one using turrets, I don't see that as feasible versus attacking the Thorax itself. With a 25m signature radius 700m/s speed, orbiting at 1km, and 440 HP each, it's going to take a bit to kill those 8 drones with cruiser guns... and while they're doing damage to you (as well as the Thorax if it's in range) sounds awful tough.
Your calculations are stupid. You calculate damage like noone has any resistances and like none of the enemies are tanking themselves. Also you assume none of them use an mwd or shoot the drones. Also you assume that the drones can only be killed one at a time by the smartbomb.
All in all, you suck at flying ships. Just quit already with your thorax whining.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
In the Immortal words of Kayosoni (and where applicable)
"This thread sucks. 2 Newb corps trying to make themselves look good... ugh"
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.07.07 13:13:00 -
[44]
Originally by: K3NDY stop whining, the thorax is just fine, u should just train the skills to use one or start a gallente alt.
dont try to stop us having good ships coz u made the wrong racial choice!
Race has very little to do with it - it takes 3 days to train the ship, and you can use any type of frig turrets on it. Any gunnery race should be fine.
Drones 5 is the slowest factor for me, but I need to get that for battleship combat anyway.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2005.07.07 13:32:00 -
[45]
The thorax is nowhere near balanced amongst cruisers - but it should not be nerfed because it is a useful ship and not overpowered outside the cruiser class. The other combat cruisers should be given more firepower and more tanking ability to make up the difference. the 1600mm place is a hangover from the old oversized module days which saw ruptures being superb combat ships. Somehow only MWD/AB got the nerf but 1600mm slipped through leaving thorax and duramaller still possible while the wideboy Rupture got destroyed.
What cruisers need is a boost. What BattleCruisers show us is that CCP have no idea how to do it. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com |
stonebeard
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Posted - 2005.07.07 13:34:00 -
[46]
Omg yes, lets nerf the thorax and make it useless like all other cruisers are. Smart Idea....
Yes the thorax is unbalanced compaired to other cruisers, but it is balanced to what a cruiser should do against a battleship.
How about buff the other cruisers please, instead shouting nerf.
Also the thorax Is not that difficult to deal with if you use your brain as darken two already pointed out.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.07 13:35:00 -
[47]
I hear if you web the thorax and fly away from it, you pretty much screw it over. True story.
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.07 14:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: stonebeard Omg yes, lets nerf the thorax and make it useless like all other cruisers are. Smart Idea....
Yes the thorax is unbalanced compaired to other cruisers, but it is balanced to what a cruiser should do against a battleship.
How about buff the other cruisers please, instead shouting nerf.
Also the thorax Is not that difficult to deal with if you use your brain as darken two already pointed out.
ur sexy
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CDLPeacemaker
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Posted - 2005.07.07 15:50:00 -
[49]
So what you guys are saying is that the Thorax will lose every time because it cant tank now?
Uhhh... what happened to the Megathron. It uses the same setup just beefed up alot. It flys in and destroys battleships. The thorax right now is a do it all ship with the standard setup. 1600mm plate, small blasters yadda yadda ya. I fly it my self. I rip appart malers. I had one shoot at my drones, he killed 6 before he exploded. I had another use smart bombs. He got them all but was half structure when he did it. Both had the 1600mm plate and cruiser 4. So yea. Maybe the people with a whole crap load of SP can do it. But what about your average pilot? Negative. Hes going to die to that rax.
The 1600mm plate nerf will slow the ship down a little but more important NERF ITS AGILITY. I dont mind if the rax goes 800m/s still. Thats cool... but when it reaches the target it should overshoot/ not beable to turn with it. You still can get a battleship... if he is slow. But a cruiser without a 1600mm plate should beable to out turn your ship. Even if he is slower. Then halfing the drone bay will make it perfect.
P.S. I WOULD prefer all cruisers getting a buff.
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stonebeard
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Posted - 2005.07.07 15:54:00 -
[50]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: stonebeard Omg yes, lets nerf the thorax and make it useless like all other cruisers are. Smart Idea....
Yes the thorax is unbalanced compaired to other cruisers, but it is balanced to what a cruiser should do against a battleship.
How about buff the other cruisers please, instead shouting nerf.
Also the thorax Is not that difficult to deal with if you use your brain as darken two already pointed out.
ur sexy
Your dead sexy. Can I touch your nipples?
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CDLPeacemaker
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Posted - 2005.07.07 16:14:00 -
[51]
stay on topic please. Derailment isnt needed.
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Onmarr Shan
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Posted - 2005.07.07 16:29:00 -
[52]
Stop whining. It is fine as it is.
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2005.07.07 16:43:00 -
[53]
So all cruisers are faster and more agile now.
Plates get used with a lot of cruisers.
Someone notices that the 'overpowered' Thorax often is used with plates.
"I know! Let's make the use of plates cripple speed and agility!"
All cruisers (not just Thorax) are promptly less flexible and nerfed by such a change.
Sheesh..
Thorax is clearly flavour of the month for the cries of 'nerf! nerf!' but this idea just messes up an entire class that even with its patch boost struggles.
The penalty for using plates is a decrease in speed and for large plates a massive loss of grid. They are fine.
Extenders are fine too.
Leave the class alone for gawd's sake.
You want to nerf the Thorax? (I don't btw but...) Fine. Suggest a Thorax-specific solution instead of suggesting things that just cut down on useful setups across entire classes. Talk about a sledgehammer to smash a nut.
Cosmo
PS. As for ABs, the oversize penalty is to solve a specific issue that had little to do with player preferences, ie CCP wanted to slow combat flight down. They don't appear to want to reduce the number of high HP setups.
Jericho Fraction - CEO: Jade Constantine |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.07 17:00:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 07/07/2005 17:00:41 I love how a Thorax is overpowered when all you need to do is stay out of range of its blaster and tank and you win. If you get into the range of your foes blasters you should die. I mean, you have to be right on top of the enemy literly in order to use blasters. Which means, any Thorax pilot that flys right at you with MWD will also be very easy to hit and takeing quite the pounding before he or she even gets a shot off. So yeah, you better believe it is going to do massive amounts of damage in short period of time.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 07/07/2005 07:59:47 I assume the Moa was sniping at you, in which case the Thorax is SUPPOSED to lose.
I'm still hung up on why this is a good argument, but saying that "if you let a thorax get close, you're SUPPOSED to lose" is a bad argument.
A properly equiped and piloted stabber could beat a thorax. Heavy drones are ill-equiped to deal with fast ships, and blasters are ill-equiped to deal with fast ships.
Faster ships will beat the thorax. Sniping setups will beat the thorax (by your own admission.) Thorax that gets close WILL win.
Why is this a problem?
Garreck Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:22:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 07/07/2005 07:59:47 I assume the Moa was sniping at you, in which case the Thorax is SUPPOSED to lose.
I'm still hung up on why this is a good argument, but saying that "if you let a thorax get close, you're SUPPOSED to lose" is a bad argument.
A properly equiped and piloted stabber could beat a thorax. Heavy drones are ill-equiped to deal with fast ships, and blasters are ill-equiped to deal with fast ships.
Faster ships will beat the thorax. Sniping setups will beat the thorax (by your own admission.) Thorax that gets close WILL win.
Why is this a problem?
150 II rail or beam rax will kill stabbers or ruptures with only a slight dps loss over a light neutron II rax. And a sniper setup wont kill a thorax cause the thorax will just warp out.
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Arelesia
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:31:00 -
[57]
Better nerf the 200m3 drone bay too, cause you know a thorax with 8 Ogre II's will be HELLFIRE ON "wheels"!!
You guys are getting pretty sad after gloating so much in the various chat channels about how leet you are.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:40:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Garreck on 07/07/2005 18:40:21
Originally by: DrunkenOne 150 II rail or beam rax will kill stabbers or ruptures with only a slight dps loss over a light neutron II rax.
The point of a fast ship would be to avoid the drones, not so much the guns. Without the damage of its drones, the firpower of a thorax with 1600mm plate is more or less pathetic.
Electr0freak and all the other thorax nay-sayers are half way to the truth. Yes; the drones of a thorax have to be neutralized to overcome a thorax. That's how you defeat a thorax. But don't use CCP to neutralize the drones, use your brain. Just like thorax pilots have to overcome distance-to-target issues to be able to kill, other cruisers have to overcome those drones. It's easily enough done. I suggested on the previous thread concerning the thorax that burst ecm is a simple enough solution. A fast cruiser is another viable option. A sniper, while unable to gaurantee a kill, will kill a strong-headed thorax pilot and force the withdrawal of a careful one.
Garreck Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.07.07 18:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: JoCool Just half the drone space and we're good.
Yes. Nerfing hp tanking wont work. Will just make smaller ships suck again.
~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi
A new dimension in Eve Role Play |
Tisti
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Posted - 2005.07.07 19:03:00 -
[60]
Boost others cruisers instead of nerfing the rax...
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