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TIvian
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Posted - 2005.07.07 20:42:00 -
[1]
OK! I have had enough. I have tried to be patient. I have tried to take my meds, and its not working. So now I am going to explain it in the simplest terms that simple one demensional minds can understand.
1st. The Raven was designed to be versitile in combat. From straight up power house laying down torps to being the second best EW ship.
The changes to missiles are not a nerf. If for one minute I thought that it was I would be on this forum complaining too.
This missile upgrade has allowed me to play with different setups, and I have found that no matter what I can still take down NPC BS's. I have not PvP'd with it yet as I am not in a situation to do so. So I will address the NPC aspect of it.
YES you CAN shield tank. Look under the Engineering section of the skills list on the market. they dropped a skill called Shield Compensation. It has made a difference and replaced my need to use a tech II cap recharger.
I can get more damage over time down range on my targets with the new changes.
I can take down factional frigates with Drones Torps Cruise and Rails!!
I can do MORE then I could before!!! and I don't have all the new skills to level 4 yet!!!
My Raven Set Up is as follows:
3 seige 3 cruise 2 named 425's
shield amp, xl-c5l booster, 3 factional specific hardners and a target painter.
4 tech II PDU's and a named BCU.
My drones are damage specific. if I am fighting Guristas then I use Kenetic damage based drones.
I know that I am doing the same damage as before the patch, And I will be doing more damage when I am done training then I ever have before.
All you guys need to do is THINK! use your brains and figure out what is going to work.
Torps are faster now. and with the ROF boost your going to be putting more torps and cruise down range to target then before.
I hope this clears things up. As I am enjoying my Raven more now then I ever have before!!!
WAY TO GO CCP!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!! |
Baytt
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Posted - 2005.07.07 21:19:00 -
[2]
tbh i love the new missile changes, i dont know why people are complaining, missiles are even better than they were before the patch.
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Cuebick
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Posted - 2005.07.07 21:22:00 -
[3]
Why did you have to tell everyone about it?
No please, on a more serious note, why is this bothering you?
The Raven can be so easily killed by a skilled pvper..
you sir need to take some ******* pills
____________________________________
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anister
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Posted - 2005.07.07 21:58:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cuebick
Why did you have to tell everyone about it?
Because of the stupid amounts of "omfg you screwed the raven up" posts of which it's easy to find one of many, just press back on your broweser.
The raven has been dragged into line with the rest of the battleships, which is a good thing.
How many people do you see soloing lvl4 missions in tempests, throns, pocs and all the other battleships.
gg ccp, the missile changes are awesome, learn the new skills and the ravens are more powerful now then they were pre-patch.
___
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:04:00 -
[5]
making an stupid topic cause of stupid topics isnt the solution
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: anister
The raven has been dragged into line with the rest of the battleships, which is a good thing.
How many people do you see soloing lvl4 missions in tempests, throns, pocs and all the other battleships.
I have spoken to several players, and found that for all the ships you listed (Apoc, Tempest and Megathron) there are players quite happily soloing level 4's...strangely apart from your good self I have not heard of any Raven pilots soloing level 4's since the patch. Personally I am going to wait until I have trained the new skills before I comment...but so far MY ability to do damage has been severely limited. Also I think the system may have some bugs in that there is a wide variance in the damage I do to identical ships with no good reason. I will investigate more and see what I find.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:13:00 -
[7]
I think certainly the new missile system has knocked back a lot of players. But it is nothing that cannot be recovered, and indeed improved upon, by learning skills.
Missile users are still better off than their turret companions, who have to learn Small, Medium, then Large turret speciliasation. Missile users can jump straight to their chosen method of killing.
Personally, I am looking forward to the Adv Weapon Upgrades skill being fixed, learning those missile skills, and mounting 6x Cruise and 2x 425mm's/Heavy Blasters along with a fat tank and some decent drones.
Note, 425mm/Heavy Blasters for sheer point-blank destruction.
ex P-TMC
If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Alejandro Zapata
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:18:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I have spoken to several players, and found that for all the ships you listed (Apoc, Tempest and Megathron) there are players quite happily soloing level 4's...strangely apart from your good self I have not heard of any Raven pilots soloing level 4's since the patch. Personally I am going to wait until I have trained the new skills before I comment...but so far MY ability to do damage has been severely limited. Also I think the system may have some bugs in that there is a wide variance in the damage I do to identical ships with no good reason. I will investigate more and see what I find.
I would wager Apoc, Tempest and Megathron (and Dominix and Phoon) pilots that have the cajones to do Lvl 4 missions most likely have higher SP levels in Gunnery than the Average Raven pilot doing level 4s TOTAL.
That ship, the Raven, can fit guns, maybe that is something caldari pilots should take notice of, and with the new Cap reduction skill in Shield boosting, the tanking ability has been increased.
Well done CCP. Excellent changes.
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Tisti
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alejandro Zapata
That ship, the Raven, can fit guns, maybe that is something caldari pilots should take notice of, and with the new Cap reduction skill in Shield boosting, the tanking ability has been increased.
Well done CCP. Excellent changes.
Now if it would only start working 
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:23:00 -
[10]
Tiv, your setup sounds like what I may try. What hits do your cruise and torps, respectively, get on Interceptor NPCs?
I pretty much agree with you about this being possitive but maybe for different reasons.
http://ig.eve-fix.com/kb/corp_detail.php?crp_id=110
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 http://www.galaktek.com/eve/bin/lvl5 |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:26:00 -
[11]
/me points at the Ravens dronebay
You may want to bother loading it up and using those drones. How do you think turret users deal with Interceptors?
Right.
Tivian figured it out, now for the rest of you lads.
/Elve
I lose alot of ships.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:33:00 -
[12]
"Note, 425mm/Heavy Blasters for sheer point-blank destruction."
ahahahhaha.
thank you. no, really, thank you. ^^
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Cloned Mark
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Posted - 2005.07.07 22:47:00 -
[13]
word!!!!
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M. Corp |
Moridin
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Posted - 2005.07.07 23:55:00 -
[14]
DAmm im glad to see someone is happy. instead of all the OGMMYRAVENSUCK.
thanks for the tips it makes me a bit more willing to head out to next belt and pwn some |
Alaire
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Posted - 2005.07.08 00:14:00 -
[15]
Cruise base velocity: 3750
Flight time: 20s
Hence max range: 75k
Add in a Raven, Caldari battleship IV, Missile Projection IV and Missile Bombardment IV...
Cruise modified velocity: 6750
Flight time: 28s
New max range: 189k
One hundred and eighty nine thousand metres in twenty eight seconds and people are complaining because they have to put in 2-3 weeks extra skilling up?
Sheesh. |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.08 00:43:00 -
[16]
I'm confused by the OP post 
1¦ If you think people were not able to solo lvl 4's in non-Raven BSs, you are wrong. Not later than yesterday when I was in Inoue where Ravens used to be all over the place, there were only Apocs around the station. There were sight-seeing, most probably.
The only problem turret ships were facing when doing said missions is that spawns in deadspace pop up on your head which prevents guns to hit effectively.
Do by chance have other BSs to equip small guns to deal with frigates?
That's what they suggest raven pilots have to do. Of course, this requires to train both missiles and gunnery but it's not a big deal if you are going small guns only, 1 million in gunnery will do the trick.
Of course, if you don't have gunnery already trained, it means more training on top of the now mandatory missile skills.
2¦ Are you happy with the damage your 425's do?
I tried it, and wasn't happy with the results at all. Maybe my gunnery skills for large rails were not high enough, which brings up again the problem of Caldari having to train more than some other races.
Or maybe the Caldari BSs have no rails bonus?
3¦ You suggest using drones.
Right, do you think Raven pilots didn't use drones before patch?
Maybe many didn't, but I did and drones get popped by frigates before they are dead and if they do not, they aggro everything because there is no HOLD GROUND feature, meaning as soon as they killed their target they'll go for the nearest hostile and aggro the WHOLE SPAWNS if it happens to be a structure.
This is not really convenient.
4¦ Why do you think the missiles nerf only applies to the Raven?
There is more than a missile ship for Caldari and where my light missiles were doing 100+ to NPCs frigates before patch, they now do 35-40 and I've done nothing but train the new missile skills since patch. I have them all to 2, some to 3, will it be better if I spend monthes to train them all to 5?
Please, tell me it will!
5¦ It would be correct not to put all players voicing their concerns about the missile nerf in the same basket. Of course the raven will be better for fleets now than before! At the expense of not being a threat anymore to frigates AT ANY RANGE like turret BSs still are, but as a frigateer I guess I have no reason to complain. Well, I still don't like it: the challenge to kill ravens/scorps was really fun, and that fun has been taken out.
Anyways, not only silly people complain you know?
Some have valid concerns to voice out and joining the bandwagon of the STFUers certainly won't improve the atmosphere on these boards.
Many are ready to accept the changes, but many see serious problems with this nerf and it is now close to impossible to have any form of discussion before getting jumped on by fanboys.
Constructively, I think the damage reductions from missiles, be it for speed or size, should be cut in half, or the bonuses from the skills made much higher (while this might be very tricky not to go overboard).
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Booky
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Posted - 2005.07.08 01:23:00 -
[17]
I solo lvl 4 now in my Raven, so now you have heard of it.
Now I admit it isn't as easy as it was before, but I assure you that it is still possible. Maybe my ~30m sp helps, but then again maybe not. Drones are your best friend agaisnt frigs. Also, try new things. Ive found that 4x 425mm rails, 2x Cruise and 2x Heavy pwn most any spawn.
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
anister
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Posted - 2005.07.08 01:28:00 -
[18]
I forgot my obligatory "<3 Tiv" in my post.
<3 Tiv
Sorted.
___
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2005.07.08 02:25:00 -
[19]
im still soloing most lv4 missions.. not as easy as it was but it's still doable. I use 4 cruise launchers, 2 siege launchers and 2 425s. My missles do good enough damage to frigs and drones make it that much easier.
I love the new patch..
the one thing I wish was different. We need a 7th missle hardpoint to bring us in line with the other ships. That would give me one more I could put an assault launcher in.
Apocs talk about "We fit small guns!" of course you do, you have 8 turret hardpoints.. I have the same amount of primary weapon hardpoints that the dominix has. Guns as a secondary anti-frigate weapon will not work, damnit..
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Derran
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Posted - 2005.07.08 05:04:00 -
[20]
Did some tests with a corp mate in a heavy cruiser now that I got the new rank 2 missile skills at 3 and the others at level 2.
Wrath Cruise w/o painter = 126.4
Wrath w/painter II = 166.5
Juggernaught w/o painter = 124.4
Wraith w/painter II = 166.1
I imagine it scales up alot with a juggernaught against a battleship but I haven't really tested it yet. I have been trying to take things one step at a time and being careful. My current skills are Caldari BS 5, torps 5 and cruise 5, btw.
Oh, I've also tested my Cerberus. I'm wondering if my damage has gone up as it seems better.
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TIvian
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Posted - 2005.07.08 05:45:00 -
[21]
Edited by: TIvian on 08/07/2005 05:49:52
AAHHHHH so many things to reply too.
Cuebick: sorry mate. your right I shoulda kept it to my self. but this constent high pitch noise that sounded like 5,000 people crying at the same time kinda got to me.
Rexthor Hammerfists: said "making an stupid topic cause of stupid topics isnt the solution" That should have been Making A stupid topic. BUT your entitled to your opinion mate, and I am free to post mine. And I wanted to point out some very obvious facts....sorry you felt that this topic and the subject was stupid. but I see that your the only one who did.
Alejandro Zapata: Back at the end of beta CCP did the Armagedon event. Everyone had max skills and max isk. I flew the Raven then. It started out as a gun boat with 6 turret slots 4 launchers. but at release they made it 6 launchers or 4 and 4. I don't believe that with 6 rails that a raven could keep up with amarr BS's or Minmatar BS's.
Tisti: its been working for me. I noticed the difference when I trained it.
Alowishus: I am doing in the 50's to 60's against frigs with Cruise and Torps. I can still hit them it just takes more ammo to take them down. The 425's with the target painter takes frigs down in about 2 to 3 shots
Sorja: I am not addressing the other BS's ability to solo level 4's I am addressing the none stop complaining about the Raven being usless and "I am quitting because I can't do what I used to do before the patch comments that I keep hearing.
I am happy with the Damage my 425's do at long range. *NOTE* The Raven did have a hybrid bonus back at release and it was something that went to hybrid opt range.
As for drones, I didn't use drones before the patch...and I can't speak for other Raven pilots. however I found them to be ANOTHER tool that makes the Raven deadly and not a waist like everyone says they are. And I used the painter for the drones and that made a difference for the drones to take down targets faster.
As for "Missile Nerf" I never said that it was a nerf...and I don't see it as such. I know that the "Missile Improvements" do effect other ships as well.
The Raven IS STILL a threat to all frigates NPC or Player driven....and I dare any pilot to not think so! Torps are faster as well as cruise missiles. Maybe you can't shoot them down with 2 or 3 torps as before and maybe you don't do as much damage as before to frigs...but you still hit them.
anister: <3 you too Ani. Stay cool!
Derran: I found that there was a difference with the painter vs with out against the NPC Battleships. I did solo "The Blockade" last night. Fighting the Guristas BS's my juggers hit 200's and Cruise did 150's avg against shields then against armor juggers hit for 300 and cruise for 200's. Against Structure juggers hit for 600 and the cruise hit for 400 or so..
I have been in game for a long time and I have had to adjust so many times since release being a cadari pilot, I have adapted to everything that CCP has changed as well as having the skills to not be effected so much as other players.
I am convinced that I am doing the same amount of damage if not more with most of those new skills at level 3. I have a better set up than before as I can now mount 425's instead of duel 250's that hit for small energy weapons damage.
I can shield tank better than before and I can still solo level 4's so far. I have not done all the missions yet but I feel confident that I can still solo anything that I am assigned.
I can't wait to PvP in my Raven as I have soooo many loadouts to play with.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!! |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.08 06:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TIvian
The 425's with the target painter takes frigs down in about 2 to 3 shots
At what range? And with what ammo? Is this after they've established orbit or while they are on approach? Why'd you choose 425mm? Projectiles use less cap and track better. Do you just have better Hybrid skills? I'm a little curious. I guess I don't have much experience with target painters.
http://ig.eve-fix.com/kb/corp_detail.php?crp_id=110
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 http://www.galaktek.com/eve/bin/lvl5 |
Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.07.08 07:16:00 -
[23]
With Anti matter at under 30KM
I was rat hunting last night and at 30km I was getting better hits on frigs with my 425 II's than with my heavy missiles.
That being said I am not going to judge the new missile rules until I have trained up the skills as high as my gunnery  Then I will be in a position to judge.
Two points -
1. It is not just Caldari ships that use missile EVERYBODY does and most of those don't get any ship bonus at all so if you think untrained missiles suck on Raven and Caracal imagine how much they suck on Tempest and Megathron.
2. All pilots should already know how to use drones and how to manage them and the way in which they agro spawns.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.07.08 14:45:00 -
[24]
My problem is that Angel Interceptors get into orbit before I can lock them. There are four types of Angel Ceptors from what I've seen. Two inside SB range and two outside SB range. Sansha was the same. Honestly I mostly ever encountered the ones inside SB range so I had two Large 'Notos' Explosive on my Raven (obviously I wasn't firing torps while using the Smart Bombs so don't ask), this killed 80% of the Inties I encountered and saved on torps. The ones outside SB range, obviously I killed them with a torp volley.
These guys outside SB range are my concern. I don't think I will lock them before they get inside 15km. So I'd need a gun that could hit them there. Not sure what's best suited here, for a cross between damage on ability to hit. I'm assuming medium turrets of some kind, maybe lasers. But I'm also thinking some named 800mm will help take down BS. I'm not sure about the 425mm. Seem their range is too long and tracking too low. So what I need to know is if TIv is getting hits after the Ceptors have established a tight orbit.
http://ig.eve-fix.com/kb/corp_detail.php?crp_id=110
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 http://www.galaktek.com/eve/bin/lvl5 |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.07.08 15:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: anister
The raven has been dragged into line with the rest of the battleships, which is a good thing.
How many people do you see soloing lvl4 missions in tempests, throns, pocs and all the other battleships.
gg ccp, the missile changes are awesome, learn the new skills and the ravens are more powerful now then they were pre-patch.
So ravens have been dragged back into line with other bs.... ill agree on that from a pvp standpoint (even though we are in a missions forum)
But it's intresting to note that you say that ravens are more powerfull now then they were pre patch..
In which case i guess.. everybody will be back in ravens in a few weeks then. (at a guess.. as it's back in line with other battleships.. but much more powerfull then it was before..)
Sorry, but i couldn't resist.... stick to the pvp forum mate.. there you have a point
--------
"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
'A Streetcar Named Desire' |
Remmington Daniels
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Posted - 2005.07.08 15:46:00 -
[26]
The ravens like a nova in East Birmingham, everyones got one, common as muck nowadays :/
<3 Tiv
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.08 16:39:00 -
[27]
"The ravens like a nova in East Birmingham, everyones got one, common as muck nowadays :/"
CCP recognizes this issue. A fix is in the works.
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DjDangle
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Posted - 2005.07.08 16:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: j0sephine
"The ravens like a nova in East Birmingham, everyones got one, common as muck nowadays :/"
CCP recognizes this issue. A fix is in the works.
lmao, brilliant 
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.08 17:40:00 -
[29]
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TIvian
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Posted - 2005.07.08 19:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alowishus
So what I need to know is if TIv is getting hits after the Ceptors have established a tight orbit.
Naw mate. I don't hit them with the rails when they oribit tight. BUT to be honest I get 1 or 2 that make it that close. But I still throw everything at them. I had Guristas intis last night. It took forever to take them down and my torps and cruise did an avg of 30 to 50 a hit...I was tired and forgot to launch my drones.
But I am still not going down below half cap in bad situations. And the cruise missiles along with the torps still take them down. I have not gone below half shields either in extreme situations.
I am convinced I am still doing about the same if not a little bit more damage with the changes.
I am still happy with my set up. but I am open to others. I don't have time to play with it right now as I will be gone for a week.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!! |
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