EVE Search - Missile Damage Formula discovered!

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Missile Damage Formula discovered!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.07.08 07:00:00 - [1] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 08/07/2005 07:00:22 I've FIGURED IT OUT! At least, the formula I'm using supports all of my data within a fraction of a decimal place in damage, which I pin down to rounding and error in data. So, without further ado: First, there are conditions that the formula must adhere to. Keep these in mind when making your final calculation. If Target Signature Radius >= Missile Explosion Radius, then ( Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius ) = 1.0 If Target Velocity <= Missile Explosion Velocity, then ( Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity ) = 0.0 Missile Damage * (Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius) * e^( -1 * (Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity )^2 / (1500^2) ) = Final Missile Damage This is definately too complicated to do casually, but I'm sure Mr. M will be happy to incorporate this equation into his missile damage calculator at www.evegeek.com Anyhow, in conclusion, I'd like to thank everyone on this thread who's helped thus far (especially Petrus for getting me onto the Gaussian Curve route), and I'd also like to thank Badri and CDLPeacemaker for suffering through all my testing. I also take donations in the form of isk, don't forget the zero in my name...
Monitio	Posted - 2005.07.08 07:12:00 - [2] meh, try curing cancer...
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.07.08 07:23:00 - [3] It probably wouldn't take as long as I spent solving this goddamn puzzle . But in all honesty, couldn't have done it without the help of a few key members of the community who put me on the right track.
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.07.08 07:30:00 - [4] Nice. I`ll remember to convo you when i need help with my homework _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2005.07.08 07:33:00 - [5] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 08/07/2005 07:00:22 I've FIGURED IT OUT! At least, the formula I'm using supports all of my data within a fraction of a decimal place in damage, which I pin down to rounding and error in data. So, without further ado: First, there are conditions that the formula must adhere to. Keep these in mind when making your final calculation. If Target Signature Radius >= Missile Explosion Radius, then ( Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius ) = 1.0 If Target Velocity <= Missile Explosion Velocity, then ( Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity ) = 0.0 Missile Damage * (Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius) * e^( -1 * (Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity )^2 / (1500^2) ) = Final Missile Damage This is definately too complicated to do casually, but I'm sure Mr. M will be happy to incorporate this equation into his missile damage calculator at www.evegeek.com Anyhow, in conclusion, I'd like to thank everyone on this thread who's helped thus far (especially Petrus for getting me onto the Gaussian Curve route), and I'd also like to thank Badri and CDLPeacemaker for suffering through all my testing. I also take donations in the form of isk, don't forget the zero in my name... just play the game ---------------------------------------------
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.08 07:35:00 - [6] Awesome. Time to break out matlab and do some skill/damage graphs.
Malacore	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:08:00 - [7] Ah... ...Electr0freak, proving daily that I have more of a life then someone, atleast.
Hellspawn666	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:13:00 - [8] Cool must of took some work ncie to see a maths degree is useful for somthing :) im starting to use these weapons forumlas more nowadays with setup changes since there getting fairly accurate now so good work not that i have much isk spare:)
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:16:00 - [9] Hehe, was wondering how long it would take ~Toh'kra Shi'Khran Pawi A new dimension in Eve Role Play
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Dexter Rast Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK :words: just play the game Actually, to play the game you need to understand the mechanics. People have been ridiculing Caldari for not adapting and whining. Here is the perfect comeback. Understanding that formula will enable missile users to see what has the BIGGEST effect on damage and they will be able to setup and plan tactics accordingly. Congrats Electr0Freak. Thats a worthy accomplishment
Grey Area	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:22:00 - [11] Warning Blatant whinge follows (but intended humourously) As far as I can see the formula is a lot simpler... If (ship) = "Raven" Then damage = 0 :-) Really struggling to get my Raven to be a viable ship again...and no I'm NOT talking about soloing level 4's...but would be nice to do SOMEthing in it that doesn't require me having a retinue of 4 or 5 ships just to look after it... In my defence I DID warn you it was a whinge... ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * =========================================
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:26:00 - [12] Excellent. Well done :) ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
The Pacman	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:32:00 - [13] Hi as i wrote in the other thread (click here) i doubt it is the right formula. Why? To many computation intensive parts to be handled by a server that has to be done houndreds or thousands of this in a minute. Maybe we can discuss this in the other thread again - i've posted my result there. bye The Pacman
elFarto	Posted - 2005.07.08 08:40:00 - [14] Nice one Electr0, glad you figured it out. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Missile Damage * (Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius) * e^( -1 * (Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity )^2 / (1500^2) ) = Final Missile Damage 1,500? What is this value ment to represent? Regards elFarto
Urfin	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:14:00 - [15] Nice work man, but it does seem a little too calc heavy to be real. And what does the magic 1500 number stand for? _____________________ Heatsink - Ship efficiency calculation proggie
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:17:00 - [16] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 08/07/2005 09:19:54 The 1500 is just some wierd constant I found after a lot of playing hot and cold with a graph in my calculator. I got the curve right with the first part, but that 1500 stretches the graph left and right. So I just tried high values, low values, and narrowed down on it until I hit the right damage results. Essentially, as a target travels faster and faster, missile damage decreases in a concave down shape, until the target velocity hits explosion velocity + 1500m/s, at which point the graph begins it's turn into concave up.
Petrus Illyusanov	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:19:00 - [17] It looks like he fit the width of the guassian and got that. I would have thought they would have used the blast velocity itself...but they might have started with that and then tweeked the numbers. The main effect here is that it downplays the effect of speed...it basically says you need to be going 1500 m/s faster than the blast velocity to dramatically reduce the damage.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:23:00 - [18] Yep. Petrus, thanks again man, you're the one that figured out that it was a Gaussian Curve and put me right on track. Wish I'd thought of that sooner, woulda saved a LOT of time.
Colthor	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:28:00 - [19] Good job on figuring it out -- OTO are selling Impel and Bustard transport ships. Contact Tsavong Lah or Lacero Callrisian for details. Like mining, hauling or building? Join OTO!
elFarto	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:29:00 - [20] Edited by: elFarto on 08/07/2005 09:29:50 Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 08/07/2005 09:19:54 The 1500 is just some wierd constant I found after a lot of playing hot and cold with a graph in my calculator. I got the curve right with the first part, but that 1500 stretches the graph left and right. So I just tried high values, low values, and narrowed down on it until I hit the right damage results. Essentially, as a target travels faster and faster, missile damage decreases in a concave down shape, until the target velocity hits explosion velocity + 1500m/s, at which point the graph begins it's turn into concave up. It just so happens the missiles have an attribute that is set to 1,500. If you look at jide's item db here you'll see that the missiles have a 'AoeFalloff' value. It's set to 1,500 for all missiles and torps. I'm assuming the Aoe means Area of effect. Hope that helps Regards elFarto
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:30:00 - [21] 1500 is in a property of missiles called AOERatio (sp?). Anyway, I've produced a graph using Electro's forumlae. It represents the maximum damage a missile will do against a target that is stationary (V0) and moving at it's maximum speed (VM). It is not modified for skills. You can find it here. Apologies for the crappiness of the Excel chart. ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Petrus Illyusanov	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:41:00 - [22] Ok then the orgin of the 1500 m/s is answered. This being the case the arguments the formula is wrong due to being too computationally intensive I think hold little water. He fits a guassian curve to his data and independantly produces something which is later confirmed to be correct says to me that the formula is right. Also each gun shot done over optimal range uses a similier calculation (the chance to hit is a guassian distribution) from what I have seen. Your welcome, no problem. Data analysis is what I do for a living.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.07.08 09:50:00 - [23] Ah HA! Excellent! Doubtless that hidden value is there to allow the devs to insert faction and Tech 2 missiles that will be less effected by target speed! Missile Explosion Velocity + 1500 m/s is also the point where missile damage equals exactly base damage * 0.5. Thus, if the devs were to introduce a missile with a larger number than 1500, it would take higher speeds to achieve the same reduction in missile damage, essentially making them hit faster targets at less of a damage penalty. Awesome! :)
Seramis	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:56:00 - [24] It seems there is something wrong with the missiles atm. I launched torpedos against a cruiser that was moving, made some hits with around 140 - 150damage each torp. Then i launched torpedos against a cruiser that did not move, overview showed 0m/s) and i only did 114 damage. I expected an increased value of speed slows down.
Mr M	Posted - 2005.07.08 10:59:00 - [25] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK This is definately too complicated to do casually, but I'm sure Mr. M will be happy to incorporate this equation into his missile damage calculator at www.evegeek.com Fixed and done. Now I'm off to bed again EVEgeek Ore calculator, Mineral Index, and more
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:22:00 - [26] Originally by: FireFoxx80 1500 is in a property of missiles called AOERatio (sp?). Anyway, I've produced a graph using Electro's forumlae. It represents the maximum damage a missile will do against a target that is stationary (V0) and moving at it's maximum speed (VM). It is not modified for skills. You can find it here. Apologies for the crappiness of the Excel chart. Just a question... why does moving not affect dmg? mistake or do i read chart wrong. Because it seems that torpedos (and all other stuff) do same dmg no matter if target is moving or not.
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:37:00 - [27] You sir are a damm genius.. 1000 outa 10 for persistence.. GJ And who cares if its is the "right formula", eg exactly the same. If it works surely thats all that matters????
slip66	Posted - 2005.07.08 11:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Monitio meh, try curing cancer... lol
elFarto	Posted - 2005.07.08 12:07:00 - [29] Edited by: elFarto on 08/07/2005 12:09:06 Originally by: LUKEC Just a question... why does moving not affect dmg? mistake or do i read chart wrong. Because it seems that torpedos (and all other stuff) do same dmg no matter if target is moving or not. You right, on both counts. Speed does effect damage, and the chart shows no difference in damage between V0 and VM (except the Suttle and Ibis vs. a torp). There is a simple explaination for this. The ships aren't going fast enough to out run the explosion velocity. In the Ibis vs. torp example, the torp has a explosion velocity of 250m/sec and the Ibis has a max velocity of 260m/sec. Plugging the values into the missile equation gives you: Damage = base damage * MIN(ship sig/explosion radius,1) * EXP(-1 * (MAX(ship speed-explosion velocity,0)^2) / (1500^2)) 450 * MIN(45/250,1) * EXP(-1 * (MAX(260-250,0)^2) / (1500^2)) = 50.6 Hmmmm...somethings wrong here, either FireFoxx80's graph or my calculation. But anyway, speed does make a difference, you just need alot of it to make a big difference. Regards elFarto
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.07.08 12:12:00 - [30] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 08/07/2005 12:18:50 Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 08/07/2005 12:13:11 Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: FireFoxx80 1500 is in a property of missiles called AOERatio (sp?). Anyway, I've produced a graph using Electro's forumlae. It represents the maximum damage a missile will do against a target that is stationary (V0) and moving at it's maximum speed (VM). It is not modified for skills. You can find it here. Apologies for the crappiness of the Excel chart. Just a question... why does moving not affect dmg? mistake or do i read chart wrong. Because it seems that torpedos (and all other stuff) do same dmg no matter if target is moving or not. These are for the maximum speed of the ship, in only very few cases (shuttle and raptor) does the ships standard maximum exceed the explosion velocity of a torpedo (250m/s). Afterburners will increase this speed, and hence decrease the effect of the explosion velocity. But MWD's will increase your signature radius also, you may be able to out run the missile, but if you don't you're more of a target. I will do another chart to better explain the effect of ship's speed. el farto, look at the explosion radius in your equation, it's 500, not 250 ex P-TMC If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.