there is no space for sov space in worm space

so why not beef up worm-hole space some for the big to small gangs...... only some systems can be upgrade-able allowing more fighting for the "special" upgrade systems...

Point is we want NPC-0.0 built in wormhole space making for more conflict..... space which moves... dose not have to be upgraded... gives good income ... and you have to fight to control the system ships vs. ships.... maybe gain special items over time....

Great. Now whenever I say wormhole I'm going to stretch it out.


worm-hole
worm-hole


worm....hole.

Because Nullsec isn't a gian't blue NAPfest, and is the perfect model of conflict and fast-paced action.

Well many things can be changed, you wont lose much at all with current changes. You would have a mixer of different types of unknown which we can add on too. If you don't like the one type which is a special system then move on with your self. go else were you know. At this point i'm talking about adding more ways to bring conflict of ship vs ship then sov vs ships.

To solve this type of problem you wont need to shoot "any" but you will have to stay at points to capture the marker. The more ships in a 10'km area the faster the rate will would go, over time it will force a reset timer on marker. This could easy solve the shooting part on markers. But as you wait for it complete you could fight some npcs as you wait... just idea.

Less better of the idea is to reduce the shooting points and reduce the timers...


Types of Worm-holes would fellow as....

C1 - C6 - No changes. keep the 5,000 systems.
C7 - Upgrade-able systems (500) systems
C8 - NPC 0.0 (Stations) (250) Systems (Different NPC Races maybe add "Jove's")
C9 - Dirt to Gold Systems. Gain over time.. with use of systems (100)

worm....
...
...
...
...
...
hole.

Point is we want NPC-0.0 built in wormhole space making for more conflict..... space which moves... dose not have to be upgraded... gives good income ... and you have to fight to control the system ships vs. ships.... maybe gain special items over time....

I hate how you guys are so quick to jump down someones throat for having an idea...

I've had a similar idea in the past and my corpies and i have spoken about it at length and believe that giving player the ability to upgrade their wormhole systems would increase conflict.

If we had upgrade structures that are only anchorable outside POS shields (like POCO's) then i think that would force more people to mount an offense instead of just posing up.

People in w-space POS up for three reasons. First, they either don't have the adequate amount of pilots online to mount a fight. Second, they are a small group and won't have the numbers to fight the larger aggressor. Third, they are bears who only want to make ISK. Now you are proposing that adding structure outside of POS's FF will drive towards more conflict. I have to disagree, if the group that is POSing up falls into one of the three categories above why would they come out and fight? In the end their structure will still be destroyed but now they also stand to lose all those ships.

there is no space for sov space in worm space

my 2 cents, don't think i need to explain myself to other wh dwellers

People in w-space POS up for three reasons. First, they either don't have the adequate amount of pilots online to mount a fight. Second, they are a small group and won't have the numbers to fight the larger aggressor. Third, they are bears who only want to make ISK. Now you are proposing that adding structure outside of POS's FF will drive towards more conflict. I have to disagree, if the group that is POSing up falls into one of the three categories above why would they come out and fight? In the end their structure will still be destroyed but now they also stand to lose all those ships.

But really, what are the conflict drivers in wormhole space?

Why would anyone want to spend billions in upgrades when Sleeper loot is already a fairly lucrative method of making ISK? And again you are coming back to the idea where someone has to do structure shooting. Right now there are plenty of conflict drivers in w-space, drivers such as epeen, trash talk in local, blue balling on fights and so on. If you want more conflict in w-space then maybe what we need is not new reason to kill each other but rather new opportunities. Such as less w-space systems, changing "undesirable" system effects (such as black hole) into something different, more null sec connections and so on.

After giving it some more thought, and considering the one aspect I had not addressed previously (hiding in your POS), I guess I can support 1 single idea that the OP floated. That's the idea of w-space systems that cannot be "owned".

As I understand it, a major complaint of a number of folks is that "carebear" inhabitants will just hide in their POS instead of fighting. And boo-hoo, we can't force them to come out and fight our 3:1 blob. Personally, I have no problem with them doing that if they want. You want them to fight, show a little bit of intelligence yourself, and use bait, etc.

However, adding "not ownable" systems (i.e. systems with no moons, therefore no ability to drop a POS), would likely entice people to be active someplace where they can't just warp to their POS. Reduce (not eliminate) sites in the current w-space systems and give these new systems more of the combat anoms and sigs (you can skip the grav/ladar sites, CCP). You want to farm sites? You can do a few in your own system, but if you want to get a bigger haul, you have to put yourself at higher risk.

Give these new systems a higher chance to be connected (kinda like the nullsec wormhole attracter upgrade brings more whs?). Five K162s with 25 combat anoms would provide a nice conflict driver without significant mechanic changes.

WH space doesn't need more ways to make POS sieging painful for any of the sides involved. IMHO it needs making all the spectrum of systems atractive. You dont find people in whs because 75% of the system you connect to are crap and unhabited. Posible changes to improve this would be:
1. Tweaking of the stats of the black hole and the other one... magnetar?

2. C4 not being useless. Probably changing the ******** way the sleepers spawn.

3. Changing the C1/NS to C1/LS and C1/HS
4. Not sure how popular would this be, but I would consider giving C1 and C3 double statics, like C2. Rigth now living in a C3 sounds like a highway to boredom. Opinions? A similar but different aproach to this would be the one posted by Borlag in the other thread.

5. If the 2 previous points aren't possible, reduce the timer for unactivated sites despawn. That would give people living in constellations with low population a higher respawn of sites to run.

Spawn mechanics are fine, c4's apart from being really quiet are fine as well. They allow people to get into the same relative systems as c2's and c5's without the crowding of the c2's or the risk of c5 epeen swinging.

Why don't you just go to nullsec...if you want nullsec space in wspace...same thing......people will still blob you in "wspace" as in null for it.

Seriously, WH is getting stale purely because people perfer to stay in their home system and roll WHs until they find easy gank targets which present little to no risk to their ships

I disagree. I think it's stale (for some people) because the mechanics are pretty simple and the only place fights happen is on a WH or in a site (which is not really pvp).

As for people rolling... If you want a fight but nothing is going on in your chain, do you expect people to just sit twiddling their thumbs until something happens?

Do we really need to stagnate like null while begging CCP to provide conflict drivers, when all we really need to do is take more risks and get ut of home WH where dreadblapping or blobs make the majority of fights 1 sided

Preventing SD inside POS ff would motivate me to provide more opportunities for fights.

They don't have to fight, but at least the winners then get their ships. Or get to blow them up.

Well, just a matter of perspective, PVE is boring but people do it for profit. I'd rather siege a POS for iskies than shoot red crosses.

Yes, it would lead to bigger rewards and thus more sieges, which would result in stronger incentive to form contacts to fight the invaders.

I just think a situation that promotes small entities teaming up to protect themselves leads to more everyday pvp- a system full of active players has more potential to give birth to ad-hoc encounters than a system occupied by a small corp that is protected by lack of motivation from invaders caused SD mechanics.

Furthermore corporations teaming up in one hole with others are more likely to last longer and thrive than small startups setting up operations in some desolate hole.

Some people will say that increased risk will disencourage people from settling w-space, but I don't see any difference between a completely empty hole and one occupied by a 5-man harvesting operation who are either offline or sit in POS. Neither has any fights and we'll just roll a new one.

This of course raises the question of the amount of wormhole systems and unique properties that OP talks about. Would w-space be better if there were less holes, or more systems that would be worth fighting for than others?

How many ships constitute a "blob"?

No, that's not exactly what you were getting at. You said I wanted to make a megablob to kill everyone and that the reason we don't get fights because we always drop massive megablob of something that nobody can even imagine engaging.

I'm talking about improving a situation where 20 guys won't fight 10 invaders because they can just SD and get most of their money back and move on to another hole. And how I find these kind of small invasions excellent entertainment for both parties, and if it means that those three guys and their alts would need to team up with 5 similar corps to defend their system, it would result in a livelier wormspace.

Firstly your not going to get a 50 man T3 gank through many c1 - c3 without many of the holes closing on you and secondly, how do you know if you are bringing overwhelming numbers in a part of space with no local?

It would be nice if whe could all have fair and even fights all the time but that is not how humans work. Someone will want to be the "best" andif being the best means having the wost numbers in someones mind, guess what will happen...

Roime is right, the SD issue would encourage pos bashing and it would also provide more opportunities for large groups to get more fights by defending the little guys.

Ok, so remove all insurance payout from SD inside POS shield? Would make sense. This would still allow this magically important "asset denial" but with real consequences.

So decrease conflict drivers?

Well it's been explained to you over the last two pages so idk what more I can say if you fail the understand the primary motivation of human actions I.e what's in it for me?