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Clone upgrades in depth article. Interesting read.

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Its Over 9000 Global Criminal Countdown 0	Posted - 2013.01.29 17:16:00 - [1] - Quote While I am not sold on the insurance part, I find the rest of the article about the clone upgrades very compelling. CLONE UPGRADE BILLS: A PAINFUL THROWBACK Marlona goes into three parts of how clone upgrades impacts the game and she gives good reason why they need to be addressed, if not removed all together.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1676	Posted - 2013.01.29 17:53:00 - [2] - Quote Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 6509	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:04:00 - [3] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. If it's well-written and stirs up discussion, we'll publish it. If you disagree with the piece, feel free to write up another piece to counter it and submit it to us. ~a proud belligerent undesirable~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1677	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:11:00 - [4] - Quote Andski wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. If it's well-written and stirs up discussion, we'll publish it. If you disagree with the piece, feel free to write up another piece to counter it and submit it to us. I said some very nice things there and didnt say I disagreed. As for a write up by me, well as im sure the majority would be entertained, the minority who reads it, and then keels over with blood pouring from their ears, would probably have me up to my armpits in wrongful death lawsuits brought on by their greiving next-of-kin. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
addelee The 404 10	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:35:00 - [5] - Quote I agree with most of it with the exception of ship insurance. I've never understood the concept of the clone, or at least the cost of it, as it seems an unnecessary evil and benefits no one. I'd personally experiment with PvP fittings a lot more (on a clone with zero implants) as the cost wouldn't be 50mill per clone with a dubious fitting.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7435	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:38:00 - [6] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. Accusing Marlona Sky of shilling for goons in general and mittens in particular is like accusing Simon Weisenthal of being a clost ****. But yes, don't read the article, you might learn something and there's no insurance against that. Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Eli Green The Arrow Project 451	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:43:00 - [7] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Andski wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. If it's well-written and stirs up discussion, we'll publish it. If you disagree with the piece, feel free to write up another piece to counter it and submit it to us. I said some very nice things there and didnt say I disagreed. As for a write up by me, well as im sure the majority would be entertained, the minority who reads it, and then keels over with blood pouring from their ears, would probably have me up to my armpits in wrongful death lawsuits brought on by their greiving next-of-kin. Unsuccessful At Everything for CSM wumbo
ShadowStalkerwings The Fall From Grace AL3XAND3R. 2	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:45:00 - [8] - Quote I enjoyed that read, would a clone system like the current insurance system (pay once for so many weeks/days) be a better solution for people who wish to pvp?? One fixed sum for a long period of time (4weeks/8weeks) compared to clicking new clone every time someones podded costing them more isk for pvp'n, would reduce the clicking fest a lot and all CCP (plus community) would have to do then is come up with a valid cost for each sp level range. Less clicking, less having to remember to get a new clone every time you're podded and notifications when your clone insurance was running out.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7435	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:45:00 - [9] - Quote addelee wrote: I agree with most of it with the exception of ship insurance. I've never understood the concept of the clone, or at least the cost of it, as it seems an unnecessary evil and benefits no one. I'd personally experiment with PvP fittings a lot more (on a clone with zero implants) as the cost wouldn't be 50mill per clone with a dubious fitting. You lose your clone every time you lose your ship? And never wear implants? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 3025	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:16:00 - [10] - Quote Its Over 9000 wrote: While I am not sold on the insurance part, I find the rest of the article about the clone upgrades very compelling. CLONE UPGRADE BILLS: A PAINFUL THROWBACK Marlona goes into three parts of how clone upgrades impacts the game and she gives good reason why they need to be addressed, if not removed all together. Truth be told I included the insurance part to deal with the loss of the clone ISK sink issue. If transfering the ISK sink from clones to insurance is more destructive and discouraging towards PvP, especially for younger players, than the sink can be easily be moved to more appropriate locations. Places like industry job costs which are virtually nothing. The rest of the article about the justification for clone upgrade cost removal I still believe in strongly. The cost per clone works off an exponential curve formula. So while it seems small for a few years on the skill points to cost ratio; the ratio goes insane very fast later. More issues with the current system is the sever lack of options at later levels. There is twenty four levels to pick from. The time gaps between ech one available is also on the exponential curve formula. One moment your paying 30 million for a clone and the next minute you have to pay 45 million. Granted the 45 million clone covers more skill points, but you are paying for skill point coverage on skill points you don't have. 150% jump in cost. I also stand by the my points on the discouraging factor of clone costs. Players do factor in clone costs when PvPing. In some cases it causes no PvP to happen. One thing I want to make clear is in no way am I for risk free combat. Again people are assuming that with age comes wealth. This is completely inaccurate. Most player play on the weekend. Everyone knows this simply by the log in screen each day. And creating more alts having to retraining core skills is a unhealthy alternative. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 3025	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:21:00 - [11] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. Aside from the editors note; every word in that article was written by me. I loathe goons and have vocally expressed it, well... everywhere. And yet my article was published as if I was a goon director submitting an article. Food for thought. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:30:00 - [12] - Quote Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 3025	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:34:00 - [13] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'. Except it would benifit everyone. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1680	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:40:00 - [14] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read. Dont get me wrong here, the shear amount of soreness in the posterior region that this comment has caused is making me blush. I I will break it down so that you can all see it was a compliment. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Oh look...a themittani.com link was pointing out it was a link. nothing but pure unadulterated truth in that statement, said with genuine surprise. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: this will be informative It was. Truth again with no snarky overtones. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: and in no way biased See? I said it wouldnt be biased. And it wasnt. So accusing me of accusing her of being a goonlover...well that wasnt even implied. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world Fox news is an upstanding news organization. If they werent, they wouldnt be on TV right? Just like E! news and TMZ. ...and at the end I did say "I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read", and I did. Really I did. It was awkward to do that in the middle of the workplace and I recieved a warning about it, but I did it anyways. That all being broken down to show that there was nothing but pure compliments in there and in no way sarcasm, I will now direct you to an online pharmacy where you can all get some sauve for those sore rumps. (here) *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 4071	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:46:00 - [15] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'. True and they aren't. The fact it benefits weekend warriors is irrelevant. It should be changed because it's a nonsensical piece of crap and everyone who looks at it critically seems to come to similar conclusions. The major differences between players regarding this issue are about how it should be changed and not if it should be changed.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3605	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:48:00 - [16] - Quote Just... stop posting. You're impeding important discussion here. Unsuccessful at everything, including trolling. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:53:00 - [17] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: Danu Charante wrote: Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'. Except it would benifit everyone. So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though. If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3605	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:55:00 - [18] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: Marlona Sky wrote: Danu Charante wrote: Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'. Except it would benifit everyone. So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though. If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play. Requiring them to do that is utterly ******** game design. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.01.29 20:02:00 - [19] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Danu Charante wrote: Marlona Sky wrote: Danu Charante wrote: Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'. Except it would benifit everyone. So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though. If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play. Requiring them to do that is utterly ******** game design. Yeah, thats why WoW is so successful. Zero death penalty makes exciting PvP!
Toku Jiang Jiang Laboratories and Discovery 141	Posted - 2013.01.29 20:12:00 - [20] - Quote Agreed, clones and insurance are a joke.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3607	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:08:00 - [21] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Danu Charante wrote: Marlona Sky wrote: Danu Charante wrote: Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'. Except it would benifit everyone. So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though. If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play. Requiring them to do that is utterly ******** game design. Yeah, that's why WoW is so successful. Zero death penalty makes exciting PvP. Nobody's arguing for that. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Rosen Thornn House of Nightshade 0	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:21:00 - [22] - Quote The high price of clones is one of the checks and balances for the game. High skill points characters need to follow thier own advice, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If the price is to high, there are two other character slot on the account, make a new character. Unfortunatly that is the cost of being able to fly a bunch of ships over specializing. We vets keep telling the new players that the amount of skill points doesn't matter. specialize, pick a ship and stick with it. Perhaps its time you take your own advice.
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:24:00 - [23] - Quote Yeah, that's why WoW is so successful. Zero death penalty makes exciting PvP.[/quote] Nobody's arguing for that.[/quote] It's only a matter of time, once you head down that road, there is no turning back.
Mire Stoude Antelope with Night Vision Goggles 85	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:31:00 - [24] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: Yeah, that's why WoW is so successful. Zero death penalty makes exciting PvP. Nobody's arguing for that.[/quote] It's only a matter of time, once you head down that road, there is no turning back. [/quote] The slippery slope arguement is always the best one. Reduce clone costs today, dogs and cats living together tomorrow. The article posted was completely right.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3607	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:32:00 - [25] - Quote Danu Charante wrote: It's only a matter of time, once you head down that road, there is no turning back. Please tell me you don't actually believe this. Also, quote tags are hard. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Skeln Thargensen Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:32:00 - [26] - Quote Yeah I read that one and I fully agree. it just doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of realism and it discourages carebears from trying PvP which is not a good thing and also penalises vets for their loyalty to the game. you can choose the risk you take with your ship fit and your implants but you can't with your clonetype. I'm nearly at a million a clone on this toon and I'm still a baby., my alt is like 40K I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want.
Danu Charante Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:47:00 - [27] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Danu Charante wrote: It's only a matter of time, once you head down that road, there is no turning back. Please tell me you don't actually believe this. Also, quote tags are hard. What's not to believe.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 7441	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:54:00 - [28] - Quote Mire Stoude wrote: Danu Charante wrote: It's only a matter of time, once you head down that road, there is no turning back. The slippery slope arguement is always the best one. Reduce clone costs today, dogs and cats living together tomorrow. The article posted was completely right. So explain to me why eliminating clone costs is vital for proper PvP, but eliminating insurance won't be a problem? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 412	Posted - 2013.01.29 21:58:00 - [29] - Quote Consequences. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3609	Posted - 2013.01.29 22:02:00 - [30] - Quote Vaju Enki wrote: Consequences. Buzzwords. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm

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