If they're 5 guys online in a C2 -> C4 with no Orca pilots then putting 2 holes crit with BS or smaller takes more than 3 minutes. How much extra work is really beside the point though. Any amount of additional work for anyone doing anything is stupid if it doesn't also have the effect of increasing the thing you want.

Seriously, I'm saying it as nicely as possible but in two replies you've completely ignored the main suggestion that the intrisic anti-roam properties of W-Space (definitely a feature not a bug) contribute much more to the absence of 'conflict' (of the kind you seem to be interested in) than the balance of PvE risk/reward (or whatever you're trying to effect by introducing more connections of whatever type).

The problem is that the WH playerbase is spread across 2500 WHs, MOST all in tiny corporations. Rather than group up into formidable larger groups that are more likely to roam and pvp we instead have hundreds if not a thousand+ of 1-20 man WH corps.

More connections will make W-space FEEL smaller, just like roads/railroads/airplanes make RL feel smaller.

Fixing POS issues will allow those tiny corporations to grow. When that 10-man corp that was afraid of your 75-man corp grows to 40, they might very well be willing to engage (not knowing for sure if you have 20 or 60 online to fight their 30 online).

I also wanted to come up with a method that doesn't change the balance of the game at all, not even by making some system worth more than the other.

I'm curious how you continue to make the claim that it doesn't change the balance of the game at all. That's patently false - it does change the balance of the game. It potentially increases interaction (provided everyone is in the same timezone) and makes it far easier for the C5/C6 guys to roll a 20-30 man T3 fleet into someone's C2 home.

I just don't see that being a good thing. You guys see the same people over and over because they're the only people that can realistically fight you regularly.

-Liang

Not really, it will increase the opportunity for cheap ganks that are hella boring but that's about it. If people are going to fight you they are going to fight you, if not they are just going to POS up and go play WoT or something.

The people posting on these forums about finding ways to make wormholes interesting or more fights are almost all universally from groups who have reputations for blowing "fights" out of the water with t3's balls and 3-1 odds. People see you in the chain and decide "nope nope nope nope". And roll you away with all haste, or if you do find them by a direct roll, they just sit in their towers and give you the boredom treatment until you go away. No one is going to intentionally jump on you when they know what it is you do all the time. You make it unfun to fight you and so no one wants to fight you.

What we have on our hands is a product purely of our own making. We have made this lovely little bed of ours now shut up and lay in it.

I specifically discounted timezones in that post, and still you QQ about it. Stop, and read the damn post.

-Liang

Perhaps that's because literally your every post reads like "look at me, I'm more experienced than all of you combined. I crusade for the little people and the people who don't even bother to log on", all without knowing facts.

Svodola, I do read this thread and continue commenting on it, which is evident if you simply read the thread instead of just skimming it. I don't see what you are describing as a problem with wormholes as such, but as a larger problem with the game itself. People are too scared to lose anything and forget what it's all about, having fun. To me that means fighting, whether winning or losing, it doesn't really even matter as like you said, even big losses can be recovered from very easily.

For a problem like that, there's very little that can be done by CCP in the game mechanics or elsewhere.

Perhaps that's because literally your every post reads like "look at me, I'm more experienced than all of you combined. I crusade for the little people and the people who don't even bother to log on", all without knowing facts.

Svodola, I do read this thread and continue commenting on it, which is evident if you simply read the thread instead of just skimming it. I don't see what you are describing as a problem with wormholes as such, but as a larger problem with the game itself. People are too scared to lose anything and forget what it's all about, having fun. To me that means fighting, whether winning or losing, it doesn't really even matter as like you said, even big losses can be recovered from very easily.

For a problem like that, there's very little that can be done by CCP in the game mechanics or elsewhere.

Once you start talking about throwing T3 blobs and capitals around, you've left the realm of anything that's reasonably experienced in low class wormholes. The interactions between C1-C3 and C5-C6 are just flat different. It's almost like they're not even the same kind of space - and in a very real sense that's true.

Again, I'm all for increasing good interaction but I'd be hard pressed to say a C2 connected to a C6 is a good interaction for anyone but the marauding C6 gank party. What would you say to splitting your idea into two classes of WHs: C1-C3 roving statics and C4-C6 roving statics?

-Liang

Ed: Also, a C2 with statics pointing at low sec / null sec / C2 would probably be my favorite WH ever.

I just want to be clear: you mention in the OP that we wouldn't have to scan these down. Are you referring to that in the sense that I don't scan down incoming statics (good) or that it's a WH that appears on the overview like a gate (bad)?

-Liang

Not really, it will increase the opportunity for cheap ganks that are hella boring but that's about it. If people are going to fight you they are going to fight you, if not they are just going to POS up and go play WoT or something.

The people posting on these forums about finding ways to make wormholes interesting or more fights are almost all universally from groups who have reputations for blowing "fights" out of the water with t3's balls and 3-1 odds. People see you in the chain and decide "nope nope nope nope". And roll you away with all haste, or if you do find them by a direct roll, they just sit in their towers and give you the boredom treatment until you go away. No one is going to intentionally jump on you when they know what it is you do all the time. You make it unfun to fight you and so no one wants to fight you.

What we have on our hands is a product purely of our own making. We have made this lovely little bed of ours now shut up and lay in it.

As this seemed to have been buried in the other thread...

More unpredictability for wormholes is how you increase conflict, for example by adding a completely random second static to each wormhole (by this I mean the connection can change between high sec, low sec, null sec and all classes of wormholes and once it collapses, it would be randomized again) and by removing the requirement to scan down your new static before it's visible on the other side. This removes the methods used currently for safe farming, and as such automatically encourages more fights without changing the actual balance of the game one bit (ie. the holes would still be mass restricted just like they are now).

By increasing the amount of connections, you increase the chances of encounters with actual players, thus naturally increasing PvP without changing game balance or introducing any new mechanics. By making those connections more unpredictable you remove the other problem that just about all active wormhole corporations have, which is running into the same groups all the time. While accomplishing both of those, this would also bring some more danger into site running by making it more difficult to create safe conditions for doing so. Obviously you could still reduce the mass to critical and bubble up every time you start your daily farming, but I really don't see any real drawbacks in making these proposed changes.

And no, I don't consider the troubles of farmers to be a drawback in the least. Nor do I consider it a drawback that this would make C4 holes less secluded.

Don't be stupid, please. Everybody who lives in a WH does some kind of WH "farming" even your corp. If it gets to the point where people cant make any ISK in WH's they will move out, decreasing WH population and having the exact opposite effect that you claim to desire. If people have too many incoming connections or cannot secure their WH for their chosen ISK making time (especially the small WH corps) they will stop mining, stop running sites, run out of money to build ships, get bored, and eventually move out. And lets get one thing straight for everybody, killing mining ships, scanners, PvE fit ships, and transports isn't PvP, its ganking. Yea I do it like everybody else but lets call it what it is and it is certainly not a challenge. So, your proposals would 1. Increase ganks (hats off to your mad PvP skills) 2. Decrease WH population most likely. What will be your fix when you have to whine about even less people to gank or fight than you have now?

Reading comprehension, sometimes it might be good to have some.

Nothing that is proposed in this thread by anyone would prevent farming one bit, all it would do is make it harder to shutdown your entire system via the collapsing of your statics. If you can't work around a simple issue like that, perhaps you really need to reconsider the life in wormholes yourself. The way I see things is that in wormholes it shouldn't ever be possible to make it secure for yourself. As it is right now, it is ridiculously easy.

WHs are good as they are right now.

More statics or even K162's would drive smaller corporations back in to hi sec, like the sir above described. Often WHs are considered just like a base, a small part of this huge universe that you can call "home".

We all know that there is always a bigger fish arround, no need to turn our belowed Whs in to a highway. There is always a possibility that a k162 spawns, so talking about how secure it is or "locked down" isn't correct.