the role of The Amarr is more custodial and not an abusive one.er used Vitoc, or transcrainial microcontrollers.

What's wrong with vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers?

Seriously?

.......

I hear you, but I'm mainly interested in Flavius' opinion since he brought it up.

That was a typo. The relationship itself was a custodial one. The holder did not use vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers.

those two facts were not intended to be connected. they simply happened to be presented side by side. The issue of Vitoc would be a logistical one. at the same time, it is a temporary one, as I would plan on having her inducted into the capsuleer program and cloned. Thus, the vitoc would cease to be a problem. The transcranial microcontrollers present a much graver isses due to the highly technical surgery required to remove it.

I'm truly confused on this. On one hand, you say that the Person who was her Holder to date did not use either Vitoc, or Transcranial Microprocessors.

However, you then go on to say that you'll be putting her through the Capsuleer Program to be Cloned in order to bypass the effects of both Vitoc and the Transcranial Microprocessors.

There seems to be a Logical Disconnection between these Statements. They cannot both be true.

A passage concerning this, urges Amarrians to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. The direct and obvious import of this passage is that believers ought not to marry unbelievers, for doing so is a clear instance of inequality thus destined to failure. The burden of reason is thus against inter-religious and inter-cultural marriages, in that they normally go against the very community which marriage is designed to establish.

So a question of relevance surface, Is she your equal? Does she truly follow the LordGÇÖs path?

If she doesnGÇÖt; her motive canGÇÖt be sincere. It is your responsibility first to steward GodGÇÖs tithe to redemption.

If she does, God calls many people to marriage, in which two souls becoming one flesh, find fulfilment in a profound life of communion. It is a prospect that is both bright and demanding. It is a project for true love which is daily renewed and deepened by sharing joys and sorrows, one marked by complete self-giving. For this reason, to acknowledge the beauty and goodness of marriage is to realize that only a setting of fidelity and indissolubility, along with openness to GodGÇÖs gift of life, is adequate to the grandeur and dignity of marital love.

Thus my advice to you brother;
If you love her; set her free of chains and commitment.
If she truly loves you; she will return.

Thank you for your input. I planned on freeing her. In addition, she is a true believer.

Should a teacher enter into a relationship with a student?

Should a doctor enter into a relationship with a patient?

Should a farmer enter into a relationship with his livestock?

As you are a commoner, you are legally disallowed from owning slaves in the Amarr Empire. Instead, the Holder that placed her under your care has entered what is known as a Custodial Servitude Contract, allowing her to serve you while remaining legally her Holder's property. Legally you are not allowed to free this woman from her enslavement and slaves are forbidden from marriage.

If you wish to engage in a legal relationship with this woman, her owner would have to free her from slavery by going through all proper channels, including filing a Notice to Emancipate with the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Assessment.

I am unable to comment on the moral, social, or ethical implications of your marriage to this woman.

Legally you are not allowed to free this woman from her enslavement and slaves are forbidden from marriage. If you wish to engage in a legal relationship with this woman, her owner would have to free her from slavery by going through all proper channels..

And that last analogy- that is why people hate you.

Arcturus, marry the girl, steal as much as you can from PIE and find your place somewhere in the cluster not inhabited by morons. I'd recommend either a CFC alliance or the Federation.

If she is a true believer, why did not her previous owner release her. Instead choosing to transfer responcibility on to you?

If the holders intent was merely to allow you the chance to release her, which is a possibility. All is well, release her and deal with her as you would with any freeman of Amarr.

If the holder had any other reason to not releasing her, I would have to question your decision to do so this quickly.

Should the transfers intent to have been merely to allow you to release her, I see little harm in two commoners marrying. Should there be a need for you to teach her before she can be released. Admiral Blake's analogy would require some pondering.

My counsel, modest as it may be, is then:
1. Find out why she was transferred to you instead of being released.
2. If she was transferred to you with the intent you would be the one to do so, I suggest you take the previous owner at his word.
3. After releasing her, see that she has meaningful employment that is not directly dependant upon you and give her time to come accustomed to being freeman of Amarr and to being friends with you.
4. After she has become accustomed to being a freeman propose to her and act in accordance to commoner traditions.

If the previous holder did not release her for any other reason than to allow you to be the one to do so. Seek her a teacher instead of attempting to teach her or release her yourself, to avoid even the seeming of any impropriety.

Love, will wait. Even if her release or your wedding take a year or two longer for propriety.

Baron Crow
Wishing you reap the rewards of patience.

Should a teacher enter into a relationship with a student?

Being free is awesome.

Why, Tiberious! For a moment there, you sounded as if you were of... two minds... about it.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night.

Remember everyone, it is your duty to fight the Sansha Menace. Now quickly, throw one-line arguments at him!

Beards on Gallente are silly.

Being free is awesome.

Being free is awesome.

As you are a commoner, you are legally disallowed from owning slaves in the Amarr Empire. Instead, the Holder that placed her under your care has entered what is known as a Custodial Servitude Contract, allowing her to serve you while remaining legally her Holder's property. Legally you are not allowed to free this woman from her enslavement and slaves are forbidden from marriage.

If you wish to engage in a legal relationship with this woman, her owner would have to free her from slavery by going through all proper channels, including filing a Notice to Emancipate with the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Assessment.

I am unable to comment on the moral, social, or ethical implications of your marriage to this woman.

you misread. IF they had been used, cloning would have taken care of them. They are however, not a factor for her as neither had been used

Does no one else find it interesting that the Amarrian representative oh-so-carefully laid out a blueprint for how to make this possible?

Did everyone miss that?

No, I'm just not sure how to respond to such a simple argument with no actual proofs.

I'm used to having to respond to walls of text with no actual proofs, so this threw me off a little.

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I shall construct a wall of text containing a proof, then, Tiberious. Please take some time to process this. If the CONCORD regulators of the forums discount this post as a legitimate construction of a wall of text containing a proof, I would be upset but would understand their reasoning. It is, after all, not a particularly strong proof within this wall of text. About "freedom" and stuff? I'm going to be writing an IGS post on that later; I do hope you'll read it Tiberious. I might even ask for your thoughts on the matter as I make the post. At any rate, without further ado, I present you with the wall of text you should be accustomed to. Contained within it is the requisite unit of proof:







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What I find particularly interesting, is that True Amarr have actually spoken out against this union. What of the Khanid or Ni-Kunni? You yourselves were once slaves to True Ammarians. Yet now, you seek to turn away a future member of The Empire? Your hypocracy is truely astounding. There is a point whenother races must be absorbed into Pax Amarr as the other former slaves races have been. Granted, there remain races still subservant, but this narrow minded aproach is nothing if not infintile.

This man, with his service to God and The Empire wishes to take a wife, like countless men before him. How then, does it matter that the woman will have been a former slave? Look to your own scriptures brethren, there is no reference forbidding this. Realizing this, you must reneg on your hypocracy lest you be made to look a fool.

Does no one else find it interesting that the Amarrian representative oh-so-carefully laid out a blueprint for how to make this possible?

Most simply oppose Initiate Arcturus' lowering of himself should he take her as a wife.

I do not recall anyone wishing to deny this Matari woman life as a Sister in God, a fellow citizen of the Empire. That is our wish for all lesser beings. Most simply oppose Initiate Arcturus' lowering of himself should he take her as a wife.

Even among us commoners, there is structure and hierarchy. We are not all equals.

And tell me, in the Empire, where do the Ni-Kunni stand on that hierarchy? If I recall my history, were you no counted among the lesser beings?

And tell me, in the Empire, where do the Ni-Kunni stand on that hierarchy? If I recall my history, were you no counted among the lesser beings?

I do not recall anyone wishing to deny this Matari woman life as a Sister in God, a fellow citizen of the Empire. That is our wish for all lesser beings. Most simply oppose Initiate Arcturus' lowering of himself should he take her as a wife.

Even among us commoners, there is structure and hierarchy. We are not all equals.

This is actually a very interesting post, Ni-Kinni. You are correct, we are not all equal. You are in fact a lesser race in the Empire. While Brother Arcturus is a commoner, he is still a True Amarr. Thus, his own affiars, while he saw fit to release them to the entire IGS (in the search of more Amarr Theologians), are above your purview.

"but wait" you decry, "I am a faithful member of The Empire, and even serve in PIE"

Very well, but you are Ni-Kunni, who not even that long ago, would have been under the direct physical control of True Amarr.

"but wait" you decry, "I am not a slave"

Why then, with these distinctions, would it matter if this True Amarr married a Matari woman? Did not some forward thing True Amarr have to create YOUR place in OUR Empire? Did not some True Amarr choose to make YOU and YOUR kind more than property? Since the obvious answer is "yes", why would you feel it is your position to stop this union? In addition, as a Ni-Kunni, would a True Amarr be "lowering himself" if he sought you as a wife? I personally see this as the natural evolution to the Empire.

This is actually a very interesting post, Ni-Kinni. You are correct, we are not all equal. You are in fact a lesser race in the Empire. While Brother Arcturus is a commoner, he is still a True Amarr. Thus, his own affiars, while he saw fit to release them to the entire IGS (in the search of more Amarr Theologians), are above your purview.
"but wait" you decry, "I am a faithful member of The Empire, and even serve in PIE"

This is actually a very interesting post, Ni-Kinni. You are correct, we are not all equal. You are in fact a lesser race in the Empire. While Brother Arcturus is a commoner, he is still a True Amarr. Thus, his own affiars, while he saw fit to release them to the entire IGS (in the search of more Amarr Theologians), are above your purview.

Very well, but you are Ni-Kunni, who not even that long ago, would have been under the direct physical control of True Amarr.

Why then, with these distinctions, would it matter if this True Amarr married a Matari woman?

Did not some forward thing True Amarr have to create YOUR place in OUR Empire? Did not some True Amarr choose to make YOU and YOUR kind more than property? Since the obvious answer is "yes"

In addition, as a Ni-Kunni, would a True Amarr be "lowering himself" if he sought you as a wife?

I shall attempt to clear up some legal concerns raised by my earlier statements.

1) It is not illegal for capsuleers to transport slaves as cargo within the Empire.
2) It is not illegal for Holders to place their slaves on the open market within the Empire.
3) The SCC-controlled and maintained interstellar marketplace is considered a legal open market by the Empire due to CONCORD treaties.
4) It is not illegal for individuals of all social standing within the Empire to purchase goods and services off an open market.
5) The SCC does not mandate any restrictions based on social standing on any transactions that occur on its interstellar marketplace.

I can only comment on the base legality of the situation, but am unable to provide commentary on the social, moral, or ethical implications of capsuleers of non-Holder birth who own slaves.

They're people too, you know.

Having been on the receiving end of MIO "justice" in my past I can assure you that they in fact, are not.

Was this before or after you declared for the Sabik? Because, I mean . . . yeah, that makes it understandable.

As this is off-topic from the original posting we can discuss elsewhere at a later time.

Back to inter-racial marriage intrigue!

I Love this woman.

If I buy slaves off the Amarrian market and simply . . . abscond with them, how does that fit in with the Amarr legal system?

And do what? Keep them as slaves somewhere else? Dump them on some other empire. Say "You're free now - but in a strange country. Maybe you are even worse off than you were before. You are completely separated from your culture and everything you know, Oh and if you pray to your god then someone will beat you"? Take a Caldari laborer. Maybe a janitor. Someone trying to get that promotion. Drag them across the region to drop them on some godforsaken corner of Solitude. No money, no job, no language. Only a street corner. Will they be happy for this?

PIE has a lot of very visible Ni-Kunni nowadays, actually, now that I bother to look at it.

Good for PIE!

Or the ones that coat themselves in sauce....

Captain Arcturus, While I am concerned about your airing such a personal issue in such a public fashion, I will be sending you a private message as to this matter or perhaps we can discuss off the galnet at a time of your own choosing at the Basilica while you reflect upon the momentous choice before you.

Consider:

A) A True Amarrian marries a person of, say, Jin-Mei ethnicity who has converted to the Amarrian Faith.
B) A True Amarrian marries another True Amarrian who happens to be a Blood Raider.

I think we can all agree which of these two possibilities would be blessed by God and which would result in a spontaneous lightning strike.

I think we can all agree which of these two possibilities would be blessed by God and which would result in a spontaneous lightning strike.

I'm not sure either would prompt any sort of immediate divine retribution at all. In fact I would have expected that allowing a sovereign of the Sani Sabik to officiate a marriage, offer blessings over sanctified vodka, and join a True Amarrian with a Brutor freedom fighter (and/or pirate) in holy union would have prompted a lightning strike. Yet, here I stand.