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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.09 22:09:00 -
[1]
make them useful please
CCP Petition! |
General Killah
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Posted - 2005.07.10 01:26:00 -
[2]
LOL, amen to that.
Signed! ---------------------------------
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.07.10 02:54:00 -
[3]
Common CCP, u seriously cant leave them at this state. We are not talking about some crappy T1 frig here, but a T2 ship ppl spend time to train for and money to buy.
Intercepting since BETA |
Lest
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Posted - 2005.07.10 06:20:00 -
[4]
TBH i get confused with this stealth bomber stuff i want to train for one but i hear one side saying they are useless and then i hear another side saying they are great. I spoke to a guy a few days ago and he had a stealth bomber and he showed me what all it could do and i was amazed that ship owns i cant see what is wrong with it that thing tears thru rats. So i am confused to what makes then useless? could someone plz shedd some light on the subject
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.07.10 12:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lest TBH i get confused with this stealth bomber stuff i want to train for one but i hear one side saying they are useless and then i hear another side saying they are great. I spoke to a guy a few days ago and he had a stealth bomber and he showed me what all it could do and i was amazed that ship owns i cant see what is wrong with it that thing tears thru rats. So i am confused to what makes then useless? could someone plz shedd some light on the subject
Slight difference between real players and rats. I can tank five decent NPC BS. Not going to try that versus players.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
RedClaws
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Posted - 2005.07.10 12:19:00 -
[6]
hehe please tell us what exactly he showed?
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.11 17:04:00 -
[7]
I want them to be useful in PvP.
Alone, you can sneek up on a target (mind you if only they would not show pilots in local chat in 0.0, but thats off topic).
In a fleet, Using stealth they can help locate the enemy and still engage in the battle or as a group do hit and run tactics.
In short I want to see the ship be able to warp in cloaked. move to the target uncloak instantly!!! fire it's load and recloak (should take max 5 seconds to recloak).
then... and only then would we have a useful and different ship in eve.
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:27:00 -
[8]
IMO, if CCP is going to nerf the ability to cloak, fire, and recloak fast whilst letting the missiles still hit the target, then at LEAST take out cloak recalibration time for these ships.
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Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2005.07.11 19:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda IMO, if CCP is going to nerf the ability to cloak, fire, and recloak fast whilst letting the missiles still hit the target, then at LEAST take out cloak recalibration time for these ships.
I think what they need to do is stop listening to care-bears and just develop their game how they see fit.
Stealth bombers should be able to do all of the above. They just need their 'kryptonite' some kind of scanner pulse thing that can detect them, but they should also be able to disable it.
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away.
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Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:34:00 -
[10]
/signed.
1. I have a cover Ops II cloak.....why in the name of all that's holy can I only use it on a single ship!
2. Stealth bomber? The Gallente one can only fit 2 cruise launchers both because of hardpoints and because they eat all the PG on the ship. I would have set these up with 4 launchers and no turrets, balance here is that with the missile changes a SB would be total mincemeat to any other firgate.
3. Missiles miss if you re-cloak.....what!
-QG
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CaptainSeafort
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:28:00 -
[11]
signed
either do the above, or let them use covert ops cloaking device, or give them a super uber speed boost, so they dont just get nuked after firing :P
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:41:00 -
[12]
Signed ---------------
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IronWolf
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:21:00 -
[13]
I agree 100% with GunShip. I am a Purifer BPO owner and they dont sell worth crap now they are pretty worthless as far as i can see you cant sneak up on anyone. You cant warp while cloaked cant fit a Tech Ii cloaking it is pretty much a useless ship in PvP combat.
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Osiris Occido
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:28:00 -
[14]
I agree the cloaking for the stealth bomber is a joke. Agreed, they should be able to use the covert ops cloaker. You could say, wow, cool, frigate with cruise missiles aka castor. It would be wow, cool, maybe two weeks ago. Always fun watching 200k t1 frigates w/ light missiles and rockets outdamage your "special" cruise missile ability and pwn your 50m t2 ship.
Not to be a complete pessimist, I guess they are still useful in assisting taking down battleships from range where you finally get a chance to actually get good damage from your special damage ability, whilst having relatively low sig radius, compounding survivability from bs fire w/ an ab.
Stealth bomber? Hah. It's hardly fitting. More like a mobile, paper mache cruise missile battery.
Suggestion: +50% Cruise Missile Damage per Covert Ops level --- ok ok just to frigates... and cruisers
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Lagar
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lagar on 14/07/2005 21:49:41 i have to completly agree with this.. the stealth bomber at it's curent form is not even worth spending the isk into.. first of all.. it's suposed to travel faster while cloaked... the description says it.. and since it's in covert ops folder... SHOULD'nt it have the covert op module? it would help balance it out but even with that it's Far too weak in terms of damage to be worth it.. the damage output should be increased. alot.. i mean.. 2 cruise missiles at their curent state is not actualy doing enough damage to BS's as it is... now if they have covert op module and a 25-50% bonus to cruise missiles it would actualy be usefull against capital ships.
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Aramis Rosicrux
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Posted - 2005.07.14 22:37:00 -
[16]
OK. I spent two months training the several skills to fly a manticore. I can also fly the nemesis. A 1-million ISK destroyer could kill either one in a minute. Why did I waste all that time training covert? Covert is useless not because of the basic concept, but becaise you devs have designed exceptions and rules.
What is cloaking for (think Star Trek(R) Romulan Cloak)? Hit and run attacks. Fast Escapes. Spying. Sneak attacks. What is cloaking good for in Eve: Nothing. Not even spying because the enemy sees your name in local. It is totally useless. A complete ZERO!
I do regret spending about a hundred million on cloaks and cloaking ships. I further regret that CCP misled me to waste this time and virtual money.
You guys created content that did not entertain, but annoy.
This is not a good business model, is it??
This is almost as awful as the Presidential Elections debacle!
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.07.15 03:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux OK. I spent two months training the several skills to fly a manticore. I can also fly the nemesis. A 1-million ISK destroyer could kill either one in a minute. Why did I waste all that time training covert? Covert is useless not because of the basic concept, but becaise you devs have designed exceptions and rules.
What is cloaking for (think Star Trek(R) Romulan Cloak)? Hit and run attacks. Fast Escapes. Spying. Sneak attacks. What is cloaking good for in Eve: Nothing. Not even spying because the enemy sees your name in local. It is totally useless. A complete ZERO!
I do regret spending about a hundred million on cloaks and cloaking ships. I further regret that CCP misled me to waste this time and virtual money.
You guys created content that did not entertain, but annoy.
This is not a good business model, is it??
This is almost as awful as the Presidential Elections debacle!
You heard it CCP, give the man his cloak!
On a more serious note, why dont u bring out the anti-cloak pulses and give cloaking a reasonable boost. I know Oveur is chilling in the sun, but you guys havent even said "We'll have a look at it"
Intercepting since BETA |
azurisk
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Posted - 2005.07.15 08:55:00 -
[18]
Signed
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Admiral Pieg
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Posted - 2005.07.15 12:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux OK. I spent two months training the several skills to fly a manticore. I can also fly the nemesis. A 1-million ISK destroyer could kill either one in a minute. Why did I waste all that time training covert? Covert is useless not because of the basic concept, but becaise you devs have designed exceptions and rules.
What is cloaking for (think Star Trek(R) Romulan Cloak)? Hit and run attacks. Fast Escapes. Spying. Sneak attacks. What is cloaking good for in Eve: Nothing. Not even spying because the enemy sees your name in local. It is totally useless. A complete ZERO!
I do regret spending about a hundred million on cloaks and cloaking ships. I further regret that CCP misled me to waste this time and virtual money.
You guys created content that did not entertain, but annoy.
This is not a good business model, is it??
This is almost as awful as the Presidential Elections debacle!
You heard it CCP, give the man his cloak!
On a more serious note, why dont u bring out the anti-cloak pulses and give cloaking a reasonable boost. I know Oveur is chilling in the sun, but you guys havent even said "We'll have a look at it"
seems the devs are all on vacation ______________________
Pod from above. |
azurisk
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Posted - 2005.07.16 09:58:00 -
[20]
I have the idea that everytime crap comes flying towards them they are "on vacation"
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.17 22:14:00 -
[21]
Well I think it's fair to say that all walks of eve want's some serious change to this type of ship CCP, so what about it are you going to anything at all
or are we not worth talking to, so long as we send you cash each month you don't care
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azurisk
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Posted - 2005.07.18 07:45:00 -
[22]
Well I'm glad i also trained my gunnery to a point where i am able to klill something. If i hadn't i would've quit eve. Alot of my buddies can only fly caldari ships and they are screwed.
MegaPulse 4tw
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ManOfHonor
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Posted - 2005.07.18 16:36:00 -
[23]
the fix to this problem-
dmg modifier based on size and velocity of the target modifier
as it is now, frigs r tiny targets, an becuase of that cruise misisles scratch em, an thats all, we need a bonus that alters what size the missiles whatever-it-is is... i remember in a dev blog somewhere, small missiles (lights) do full/near full dmg to frigs an anything bigger, yet very large missiles, (cruise) only realy do full dmg vs BSs, and minimal to frigs, we need a stealth bomber ship skill that reduces teh size of the missile, so that cruises will now realy hurt frigs, but they wont do 5x norm cruise missile dmg vs a BS _____________________________ Honor Glory And Strength! Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self
(\_/)<- Bunny Hates Imperium (^.^) (> <) |
Kalin Devinae
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Posted - 2005.07.18 17:43:00 -
[24]
I think they should just forget about using cruise missiles on bombers all together, instead change the requirement bonus into a massive damage bonus, IE: 30% damage per covert op level (old 5% damage type, + new 25%). Essentially you will still be firing light missiles, which will do full damage to most ships, but will be doing 250% (100% normal + 150% bonus) damage. Meaning each light missile will be doing 180 damages per hit. This, coupled with a higher firing rate will be plenty in terms of damage.
You might say that this is way over powered for a frigate, but to be honest, the other T2 frigates have ways to counter this. Interceptors have massive speed, which dramatically reduces this damage, and assault ships have high resistances. The exact numbers are, of course, untested, and should be tuned before releasing, I'm just throwing out estimates.
This way you might actually want to fly a minnie bomber or a gallente bomber because of the damage type modifier instead of everyone rushing for the caldari bomber because of 3 missile slots (which is still unfair BTW, but who cares since they are so useless). Also, since you're using light missiles, you can actually carry ammo for your bombers in those frigates with some room left over for whatever else.
The cloak thing have always seemed kinda stupid to me, because of the local situation, but I haven't tested it fully, therefore I won't say too much. Except that when I hear the word "Stealth" I'm thinking "hard to lock" (IE: really low signature radius), and not cloak and fire sneak tactics. Sure they would benefit from a cloak in order to get into range, but when in combat, they shouldn't be able to fire and dissapear either. I think the current cloak system is okay, but they need a signature radius bonus so that they are much harder to lock on (hence 'stealth') maybe even higher than the interceptors' sig radius bonus, thus allowing them enough time to do w/e they intend to (deliver their payload and run). This would also open the opportunity for them to have a secondary role in terms of electronic warfare (which fits the covert ops theme). IE: Sneak in close, uncloak and jam the target before getting smoked. Since they have no sort of defense what-so-ever (inties have speed, and assaults have resists), they really need the extra help here.
Just throwing out some ideas... hopefully some of them will get used.
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.18 20:24:00 -
[25]
Gotta say that I'm usually a proponent of the new stuff, and don't diss on them. I was going to get a manticore and make the most of it with lvl 2 and 3 missions, but after looking at it, even if I didn't use any of its stealth attributes, it SUCKS compared to a kestrel.
I looked at it in terms of speed. I've got faster flatulence. I looked at it in terms of cargo capacity. The kestrel is a fine cargo boat. It even says that in its description. The manticore has the LOWEST cargo capacity of all the bombers. Really pathetic. I looked at it in terms of helping my friends. It'd work, sure, but a crow, harpy or cerberus could do the job ten times better.
It really bummed me out that even after looking at it, it was the first ship that I really could not find any good use for. ---
Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.07.18 21:18:00 -
[26]
They are useful - as targets and paper weights i think they will be upgraded - nerfed in different positions.
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Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.07.20 16:16:00 -
[27]
The whole thing here is that stealth bombers should be quick in, drop payload, re-cloak and quick out.
bottom line is that even with 3 cruise launchers 1 SB is not going to take a BS down unless it's in a group.
With the missile changes now in you could not a cruise fitted SB to gank a frigate, you would have to fit smaller launchers for that.
Personaly I think the bonus should apply to all large size launchers, the SB's should be able to fit torps, cruis or light as they would only be able to take one class of ship at a time and I don't think that you could 1 shot kill any of them.
-QG
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Deus Exincompositus
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Posted - 2005.07.20 17:17:00 -
[28]
/signed
i don't think a stealth bomber should be able to solo a battleship, and i don't think they should be great at killing frigs and i definately still think destroyers should be good against them seeing as the destroyer is designed as an anti frigate platform. however, i do think they should be able to sneak up on something bigger then them and bomb the hell out of it. how is it supposed to do that if it has to warp into an area uncloaked? it's already faster then a battleship, so what good does cloaking do once they know you're after them?
i don't want the covert ops stealth bomber to be good for anything other then what it's designed for: ambushing people with a ton of damage. it puts out the damage, but you can't ambush them so you might as well get something big enough to put out more damage and maybe even take some. hence stealth bomber is useless
why can't ships warp while cloaked anyhow? ships in tv,movies and other games can always move around while cloaked, it's the only thing that makes a cloaking device desirable to use.
please let us warp while cloaked!
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.07.21 07:18:00 -
[29]
Quote: why can't ships warp while cloaked anyhow? ships in tv,movies and other games can always move around while cloaked, it's the only thing that makes a cloaking device desirable to use.
Totaly agree the covert cloakII can warp while cloaked as one of it's main extras. However I can't help feeling that realy they should all be able to warp while cloaked and that the Covert Cloak II should have something more useful, say a smalled decloak range and a way lower sensor re-calibration time.
Also the covert cloak should fix ANY ship under the covert opps ship section on the market as the way it is now is just missleading.
The other cloaks are for the T1 ships and cost them way more to fit.
-QG
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:08:00 -
[30]
Many good suggestions... if only CCP would pick 1
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