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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.09 22:09:00 -
[1]
make them useful please
CCP Petition! |
General Killah
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Posted - 2005.07.10 01:26:00 -
[2]
LOL, amen to that.
Signed!
---------------------------------
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Kunming
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Posted - 2005.07.10 02:54:00 -
[3]
Common CCP, u seriously cant leave them at this state. We are not talking about some crappy T1 frig here, but a T2 ship ppl spend time to train for and money to buy.
Intercepting since BETA |
Lest
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Posted - 2005.07.10 06:20:00 -
[4]
TBH i get confused with this stealth bomber stuff i want to train for one but i hear one side saying they are useless and then i hear another side saying they are great. I spoke to a guy a few days ago and he had a stealth bomber and he showed me what all it could do and i was amazed that ship owns i cant see what is wrong with it that thing tears thru rats. So i am confused to what makes then useless? could someone plz shedd some light on the subject 
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.07.10 12:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Lest
TBH i get confused with this stealth bomber stuff i want to train for one but i hear one side saying they are useless and then i hear another side saying they are great. I spoke to a guy a few days ago and he had a stealth bomber and he showed me what all it could do and i was amazed that ship owns i cant see what is wrong with it that thing tears thru rats. So i am confused to what makes then useless? could someone plz shedd some light on the subject
Slight difference between real players and rats. I can tank five decent NPC BS. Not going to try that versus players.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
RedClaws
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Posted - 2005.07.10 12:19:00 -
[6]
hehe please tell us what exactly he showed?
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.11 17:04:00 -
[7]
I want them to be useful in PvP.
Alone, you can sneek up on a target (mind you if only they would not show pilots in local chat in 0.0, but thats off topic).
In a fleet, Using stealth they can help locate the enemy and still engage in the battle or as a group do hit and run tactics.
In short I want to see the ship be able to warp in cloaked. move to the target uncloak instantly!!! fire it's load and recloak (should take max 5 seconds to recloak).
then... and only then would we have a useful and different ship in eve.
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.07.11 18:27:00 -
[8]
IMO, if CCP is going to nerf the ability to cloak, fire, and recloak fast whilst letting the missiles still hit the target, then at LEAST take out cloak recalibration time for these ships.
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Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2005.07.11 19:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
IMO, if CCP is going to nerf the ability to cloak, fire, and recloak fast whilst letting the missiles still hit the target, then at LEAST take out cloak recalibration time for these ships.
I think what they need to do is stop listening to care-bears and just develop their game how they see fit.
Stealth bombers should be able to do all of the above. They just need their 'kryptonite' some kind of scanner pulse thing that can detect them, but they should also be able to disable it.
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away.
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Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.07.12 08:34:00 -
[10]
/signed.
1. I have a cover Ops II cloak.....why in the name of all that's holy can I only use it on a single ship!
2. Stealth bomber? The Gallente one can only fit 2 cruise launchers both because of hardpoints and because they eat all the PG on the ship. I would have set these up with 4 launchers and no turrets, balance here is that with the missile changes a SB would be total mincemeat to any other firgate.
3. Missiles miss if you re-cloak.....what!
-QG
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CaptainSeafort
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Posted - 2005.07.13 07:28:00 -
[11]
signed
either do the above, or let them use covert ops cloaking device, or give them a super uber speed boost, so they dont just get nuked after firing :P
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Amthrianius
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Posted - 2005.07.13 08:41:00 -
[12]
Signed
---------------
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IronWolf
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Posted - 2005.07.14 20:21:00 -
[13]
I agree 100% with GunShip. I am a Purifer BPO owner and they dont sell worth crap now they are pretty worthless as far as i can see you cant sneak up on anyone. You cant warp while cloaked cant fit a Tech Ii cloaking it is pretty much a useless ship in PvP combat.
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Osiris Occido
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:28:00 -
[14]
I agree the cloaking for the stealth bomber is a joke. Agreed, they should be able to use the covert ops cloaker. You could say, wow, cool, frigate with cruise missiles aka castor. It would be wow, cool, maybe two weeks ago. Always fun watching 200k t1 frigates w/ light missiles and rockets outdamage your "special" cruise missile ability and pwn your 50m t2 ship.
Not to be a complete pessimist, I guess they are still useful in assisting taking down battleships from range where you finally get a chance to actually get good damage from your special damage ability, whilst having relatively low sig radius, compounding survivability from bs fire w/ an ab.
Stealth bomber? Hah. It's hardly fitting. More like a mobile, paper mache cruise missile battery.
Suggestion: +50% Cruise Missile Damage per Covert Ops level  --- ok ok just to frigates... and cruisers 
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Lagar
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Posted - 2005.07.14 21:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lagar on 14/07/2005 21:49:41
i have to completly agree with this.. the stealth bomber at it's curent form is not even worth spending the isk into.. first of all.. it's suposed to travel faster while cloaked... the description says it.. and since it's in covert ops folder... SHOULD'nt it have the covert op module? it would help balance it out but even with that it's Far too weak in terms of damage to be worth it..
the damage output should be increased. alot.. i mean.. 2 cruise missiles at their curent state is not actualy doing enough damage to BS's as it is... now if they have covert op module and a 25-50% bonus to cruise missiles it would actualy be usefull against capital ships.
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Aramis Rosicrux
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Posted - 2005.07.14 22:37:00 -
[16]
OK. I spent two months training the several skills to fly a manticore. I can also fly the nemesis. A 1-million ISK destroyer could kill either one in a minute.
Why did I waste all that time training covert? Covert is useless not because of the basic concept, but becaise you devs have designed exceptions and rules.
What is cloaking for (think Star Trek(R) Romulan Cloak)? Hit and run attacks. Fast Escapes. Spying. Sneak attacks.
What is cloaking good for in Eve: Nothing. Not even spying because the enemy sees your name in local. It is totally useless. A complete ZERO!
I do regret spending about a hundred million on cloaks and cloaking ships. I further regret that CCP misled me to waste this time and virtual money.
You guys created content that did not entertain, but annoy.
This is not a good business model, is it??
This is almost as awful as the Presidential Elections debacle!
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.07.15 03:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux
OK. I spent two months training the several skills to fly a manticore. I can also fly the nemesis. A 1-million ISK destroyer could kill either one in a minute.
Why did I waste all that time training covert? Covert is useless not because of the basic concept, but becaise you devs have designed exceptions and rules.
What is cloaking for (think Star Trek(R) Romulan Cloak)? Hit and run attacks. Fast Escapes. Spying. Sneak attacks.
What is cloaking good for in Eve: Nothing. Not even spying because the enemy sees your name in local. It is totally useless. A complete ZERO!
I do regret spending about a hundred million on cloaks and cloaking ships. I further regret that CCP misled me to waste this time and virtual money.
You guys created content that did not entertain, but annoy.
This is not a good business model, is it??
This is almost as awful as the Presidential Elections debacle!
You heard it CCP, give the man his cloak!
On a more serious note, why dont u bring out the anti-cloak pulses and give cloaking a reasonable boost.
I know Oveur is chilling in the sun, but you guys havent even said "We'll have a look at it"
Intercepting since BETA |
azurisk
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Posted - 2005.07.15 08:55:00 -
[18]
Signed
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Admiral Pieg
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Posted - 2005.07.15 12:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux
OK. I spent two months training the several skills to fly a manticore. I can also fly the nemesis. A 1-million ISK destroyer could kill either one in a minute.
Why did I waste all that time training covert? Covert is useless not because of the basic concept, but becaise you devs have designed exceptions and rules.
What is cloaking for (think Star Trek(R) Romulan Cloak)? Hit and run attacks. Fast Escapes. Spying. Sneak attacks.
What is cloaking good for in Eve: Nothing. Not even spying because the enemy sees your name in local. It is totally useless. A complete ZERO!
I do regret spending about a hundred million on cloaks and cloaking ships. I further regret that CCP misled me to waste this time and virtual money.
You guys created content that did not entertain, but annoy.
This is not a good business model, is it??
This is almost as awful as the Presidential Elections debacle!
You heard it CCP, give the man his cloak!
On a more serious note, why dont u bring out the anti-cloak pulses and give cloaking a reasonable boost.
I know Oveur is chilling in the sun, but you guys havent even said "We'll have a look at it"
seems the devs are all on vacation
______________________
Pod from above. |
azurisk
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Posted - 2005.07.16 09:58:00 -
[20]
I have the idea that everytime crap comes flying towards them they are "on vacation"
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.17 22:14:00 -
[21]
Well I think it's fair to say that all walks of eve want's some serious change to this type of ship CCP, so what about it are you going to anything at all
or are we not worth talking to, so long as we send you cash each month you don't care
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azurisk
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Posted - 2005.07.18 07:45:00 -
[22]
Well I'm glad i also trained my gunnery to a point where i am able to klill something. If i hadn't i would've quit eve. Alot of my buddies can only fly caldari ships and they are screwed.
MegaPulse 4tw
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ManOfHonor
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Posted - 2005.07.18 16:36:00 -
[23]
the fix to this problem-
dmg modifier based on size and velocity of the target modifier
as it is now, frigs r tiny targets, an becuase of that cruise misisles scratch em, an thats all, we need a bonus that alters what size the missiles whatever-it-is is... i remember in a dev blog somewhere, small missiles (lights) do full/near full dmg to frigs an anything bigger, yet very large missiles, (cruise) only realy do full dmg vs BSs, and minimal to frigs, we need a stealth bomber ship skill that reduces teh size of the missile, so that cruises will now realy hurt frigs, but they wont do 5x norm cruise missile dmg vs a BS
_____________________________
Honor Glory And Strength!
Honor Above Self
Glory For Self
Strength Of Self
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(^.^)
(> <) |
Kalin Devinae
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Posted - 2005.07.18 17:43:00 -
[24]
I think they should just forget about using cruise missiles on bombers all together, instead change the requirement bonus into a massive damage bonus, IE: 30% damage per covert op level (old 5% damage type, + new 25%). Essentially you will still be firing light missiles, which will do full damage to most ships, but will be doing 250% (100% normal + 150% bonus) damage. Meaning each light missile will be doing 180 damages per hit. This, coupled with a higher firing rate will be plenty in terms of damage.
You might say that this is way over powered for a frigate, but to be honest, the other T2 frigates have ways to counter this. Interceptors have massive speed, which dramatically reduces this damage, and assault ships have high resistances. The exact numbers are, of course, untested, and should be tuned before releasing, I'm just throwing out estimates.
This way you might actually want to fly a minnie bomber or a gallente bomber because of the damage type modifier instead of everyone rushing for the caldari bomber because of 3 missile slots (which is still unfair BTW, but who cares since they are so useless). Also, since you're using light missiles, you can actually carry ammo for your bombers in those frigates with some room left over for whatever else.
The cloak thing have always seemed kinda stupid to me, because of the local situation, but I haven't tested it fully, therefore I won't say too much. Except that when I hear the word "Stealth" I'm thinking "hard to lock" (IE: really low signature radius), and not cloak and fire sneak tactics. Sure they would benefit from a cloak in order to get into range, but when in combat, they shouldn't be able to fire and dissapear either. I think the current cloak system is okay, but they need a signature radius bonus so that they are much harder to lock on (hence 'stealth') maybe even higher than the interceptors' sig radius bonus, thus allowing them enough time to do w/e they intend to (deliver their payload and run). This would also open the opportunity for them to have a secondary role in terms of electronic warfare (which fits the covert ops theme). IE: Sneak in close, uncloak and jam the target before getting smoked. Since they have no sort of defense what-so-ever (inties have speed, and assaults have resists), they really need the extra help here.
Just throwing out some ideas... hopefully some of them will get used.
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.18 20:24:00 -
[25]
Gotta say that I'm usually a proponent of the new stuff, and don't diss on them. I was going to get a manticore and make the most of it with lvl 2 and 3 missions, but after looking at it, even if I didn't use any of its stealth attributes, it SUCKS compared to a kestrel.
I looked at it in terms of speed. I've got faster flatulence. I looked at it in terms of cargo capacity. The kestrel is a fine cargo boat. It even says that in its description. The manticore has the LOWEST cargo capacity of all the bombers. Really pathetic. I looked at it in terms of helping my friends. It'd work, sure, but a crow, harpy or cerberus could do the job ten times better.
It really bummed me out that even after looking at it, it was the first ship that I really could not find any good use for.
---
Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.07.18 21:18:00 -
[26]
They are useful - as targets and paper weights i think they will be upgraded - nerfed in different positions.
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Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.07.20 16:16:00 -
[27]
The whole thing here is that stealth bombers should be quick in, drop payload, re-cloak and quick out.
bottom line is that even with 3 cruise launchers 1 SB is not going to take a BS down unless it's in a group.
With the missile changes now in you could not a cruise fitted SB to gank a frigate, you would have to fit smaller launchers for that.
Personaly I think the bonus should apply to all large size launchers, the SB's should be able to fit torps, cruis or light as they would only be able to take one class of ship at a time and I don't think that you could 1 shot kill any of them.
-QG
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Deus Exincompositus
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Posted - 2005.07.20 17:17:00 -
[28]
/signed
i don't think a stealth bomber should be able to solo a battleship, and i don't think they should be great at killing frigs and i definately still think destroyers should be good against them seeing as the destroyer is designed as an anti frigate platform. however, i do think they should be able to sneak up on something bigger then them and bomb the hell out of it. how is it supposed to do that if it has to warp into an area uncloaked? it's already faster then a battleship, so what good does cloaking do once they know you're after them?
i don't want the covert ops stealth bomber to be good for anything other then what it's designed for: ambushing people with a ton of damage. it puts out the damage, but you can't ambush them so you might as well get something big enough to put out more damage and maybe even take some. hence stealth bomber is useless
why can't ships warp while cloaked anyhow? ships in tv,movies and other games can always move around while cloaked, it's the only thing that makes a cloaking device desirable to use.
please let us warp while cloaked!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Quantum Ghost
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Posted - 2005.07.21 07:18:00 -
[29]
Quote:
why can't ships warp while cloaked anyhow? ships in tv,movies and other games can always move around while cloaked, it's the only thing that makes a cloaking device desirable to use.
Totaly agree the covert cloakII can warp while cloaked as one of it's main extras. However I can't help feeling that realy they should all be able to warp while cloaked and that the Covert Cloak II should have something more useful, say a smalled decloak range and a way lower sensor re-calibration time.
Also the covert cloak should fix ANY ship under the covert opps ship section on the market as the way it is now is just missleading.
The other cloaks are for the T1 ships and cost them way more to fit.
-QG
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:08:00 -
[30]
Many good suggestions... if only CCP would pick 1 
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HonorHarrington
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Posted - 2005.07.27 13:28:00 -
[31]
3 small things would make them have a purpose
1. no down time for firing after they uncloak
2. they actually do go faster cloaked
3. they get a missle speed bonus for their ship time. (to increase range)
Now they still are fragile and expensive..but they could be a sniper or rear area raider.
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Kage Getsu
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Posted - 2005.07.27 23:01:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kage Getsu on 27/07/2005 23:04:59
Stealth bombers can hit targets at over 150km with cruise missiles that have the same precision as light missiles thanks to a hidden bonus. That's further than any cruiser or frigate can attack at. They can also hide and move to a different location if anything starts to get too close.
That's all. They're not supposed to uncloak and immediately WTFPWN the closest battleship.
Stealth bombers have a little niche that no other ship fills. If you want a frigate that can fight at close range, use an interceptor or assault ship. If you want an invisible scout ship, use a standard covert ops ship. If you want a frigate that can pick off small targets at extreme range, use a stealth bomber.
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.08.02 14:17:00 -
[33]
Signed.
When they came out first, I was all for ¦em. Hell, I still say they were balanced back then. I took out other frigs and inties, even scared off cruisers with my Manticore.
But now, with the missile nerf, even that is simply not possible. I have sold my Manticore, as I saw no reason anymore to fly it. They are way too soft, and their inflexible cloaking way too vulnerable to Battleships, and anything smaller will laugh at the damage.
I still disagree with that these should use the Cov. Ops cloak, as 80% of the Covert Ops pilots around would fly SB¦s instead. I thing they all should receive a powergrid reduction for (yes, wait for it), a Citadel Launcher. And give them all 1 launcher slot.
---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---
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0CISCOKID0
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Posted - 2005.08.07 19:37:00 -
[34]
I'm sure CCP will come up with some byzantine solution to the SB issue. It'll probably involve working up through somewhere between 5 and 50 new skills, cost twice as much as it does now and still be only marginally useful.
Glad I found this thread. I was halfway through training up for the Manticore. Think I'll go a different direction now. |
DARTHxFREE
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Posted - 2005.08.10 22:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Osiris Occido
I agree the cloaking for the stealth bomber is a joke. Agreed, they should be able to use the covert ops cloaker. You could say, wow, cool, frigate with cruise missiles aka castor. It would be wow, cool, maybe two weeks ago. Always fun watching 200k t1 frigates w/ light missiles and rockets outdamage your "special" cruise missile ability and pwn your 50m t2 ship.
Not to be a complete pessimist, I guess they are still useful in assisting taking down battleships from range where you finally get a chance to actually get good damage from your special damage ability, whilst having relatively low sig radius, compounding survivability from bs fire w/ an ab.
Stealth bomber? Hah. It's hardly fitting. More like a mobile, paper mache cruise missile battery.
Suggestion: +50% Cruise Missile Damage per Covert Ops level --- ok ok just to frigates... and cruisers
now that's what im talking about
5%/level and it still has less than midi'ocer DPS
Signed in every colour of the rainbow
>:-E3 |
nonsequitur
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Posted - 2005.08.11 00:33:00 -
[36]
/signed
I would just be happy with the current stats If only I was able to use the covops cloak and retain the warp while cloaked feature. Stealth bombers are in the covops family, why should they suddenly loose the same base features as supplied by their heritage. I wont hold my breath mind you, but this alone would make me happy. If you wanted, you could limit their warp speed to a standard frigate or even a cruiser... instead of the ultra fast standard covops warp speed. This would at least give those pilots a reason to use the standard covops frigates for staying on the prospective target.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.11 11:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: nonsequitur
I would just be happy with the current stats If only I was able to use the covops cloak and retain the warp while cloaked feature. Stealth bombers are in the covops family, why should they suddenly loose the same base features as supplied by their heritage. I wont hold my breath mind you, but this alone would make me happy. If you wanted, you could limit their warp speed to a standard frigate or even a cruiser... instead of the ultra fast standard covops warp speed. This would at least give those pilots a reason to use the standard covops frigates for staying on the prospective target.
Then they would be even more useful then Covert Ops frigs for scouting. That fast warp speed is useless, it just makes it nearly impossible to make a mid-warp bookmark.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Vordor
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Posted - 2005.08.12 06:19:00 -
[38]
Well they could remove the covert part of them and just make em bombers and add another bonus instead of speed while cloacked.
If they get warp while cloacked capability they will make covert ops useless, maybe zero calibration time and ability 2 cloack while being targeted but not locked?
Agreed and signed. ..
__________________________________________________
The first step in winning a war is to have scientists to build and design the war machine!
Freedom for our people!!
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Seraphim Io
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Posted - 2005.08.20 18:28:00 -
[39]
Signed.
1. new bonus' for all SB ( give actual cruise bonus' instead of turrets)
A. either damage or speed/range
2. Turrets, why? remove and add another launcher slot or 2
3. Covert II cloaking device able to warp while cloaked
4. Better Hit and run ( uncloak, fire, cloak in less than 15 seconds)
5. Better damage of cruise missles against frigs/cruisers
6. an easy bake oven in the dashboard
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PC101
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Posted - 2005.08.21 03:15:00 -
[40]
Edited by: PC101 on 21/08/2005 03:15:35
thay should make them a lot cheaper to make to match the total useless of the ship
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Kunming
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Posted - 2005.08.21 11:58:00 -
[41]
Since the devs are back from holiday, can you pls tell us what you have in mind for these ships?
Intercepting since BETA |
Phoenicia
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Posted - 2005.08.22 06:22:00 -
[42]
I revoke my sign.
I've been using the Manticore in a 0.0 system for just about the whole last week. This since I heard about the hidden siggy bonus. They still rock like they used to.
The only thing I want to see back is to be able to cloak without missiles in flight disappearing. They should continue on target.
You are still invulnerable in a Stealth Bomber if used correctly. Its just the killing of the other guy that's hard. But as Sun Tsu said; "Invulnerability is an aspect of yourself, vulnerability of your opponent".
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Gunship
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Phoenicia
I revoke my sign.
I've been using the Manticore in a 0.0 system for just about the whole last week. This since I heard about the hidden siggy bonus. They still rock like they used to.
The only thing I want to see back is to be able to cloak without missiles in flight disappearing. They should continue on target.
You are still invulnerable in a Stealth Bomber if used correctly. Its just the killing of the other guy that's hard. But as Sun Tsu said; "Invulnerability is an aspect of yourself, vulnerability of your opponent".
Well I use the amarr bomber and have had little success with the ship despite the fact I have trained the new missile skills none-stop since release and have one of the pression skills at lvl5 and the other at lvl4 (another 15 days.... to lvl5).
I hit a destroyer and did around 400 dmg the first shot (good) and 150 ish the second (not great). however the piont is that for the cost of the ship its useless. I know you can't compare ables with bannanas but i stick to my scorp these days, at least you can jam them and do damage over time.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 12:44:00 -
[44]
said stealth bomber is more a fleet support role ie u uncloak fire off missiles then recloak - perhaps the cost needs to be brought down but if no one uses em CCP might upgrade em so suggestion is until they are balanced - enhanced dont use em
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Roderic Excelion
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Posted - 2005.08.25 09:57:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Roderic Excelion on 25/08/2005 09:59:34
I want to fly one, no matter how bad they are, I just have a few question for the Devs on this one.
1) when you fixed (and I mean fixed, not nerfed or any other whining, and about time too [and I use the things]) the missiles, you changed the power requirements of the cruise missile launcher. Have you checked the impact of this on the powergrids of the bomber? Especialy thinking of the Caldari one, as it fits 3, but all will have been affected.
2) You may wish to think about adding a secondary bonus of reduced penalty of sensor recalibration and/or sensor... darn, whats it called? the stat that affects lock time. It seems to me that the ship (which is the same toughness of most frigates) decloaks... THEN waits at least 15 seconds to recalibrate, THEN has to lock their target with 40-50% odd sensor penalty... Is it me, or does that sound like a long time you just sit there getting shot?
And sure they might be at long range, so not be shot at initially, but all you need to do is lock them, and they can't cloak any more, so will get minced by your (now) fast moving heavy missiles...
That said, I love the idea of decloaking and shooting anti-cap ship missiles from a frigate wolfpack.... pitty I'm a lone wolf, really... and too poor to buy these lovely looking ships.
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Mr Popov
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Posted - 2005.08.25 20:37:00 -
[46]
Stealth Bombers should also get a bonus to the sig radius of cruise missiles. Thus making them deadly for lone frigs.
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.08.26 00:10:00 -
[47]
I like the ideas in here. In addition, I think they could also benefit from a small armour and/or shield boost.
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Aotearorian
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Posted - 2005.08.26 05:26:00 -
[48]
Ad I see, stealth bombers are an interesting ship right now.
Suggestions of making him to be able uncloak, attack and cloak are bad. This will make it completely unbalanced, because there will be no any possibility to kill bomber.
How to use it? It is not a solo ship, but it could be use to lay traps.
Example.
Geddon mine in belt, 2 or more bombers sitting cloaked at gates.
Imagine a pirate even scouting the system. He found miner, he knows there more people in local, but he can not see them.
So, he warps to Geddon and start to attack it.
Geddon can tank fore a while, so, he webbed/scrambled pirate and call for help.
Bombers warp in. Why there are warping, 30 sec will pass, so, when they warp in they can lock and fire from the distance.
So, So long as helpless Geddon can tank for a few min this will make pirated dead.
Because bombers sitting at gates under cloak they always can know forces that come in and give warning if there more pirates then Geddon can tank or they can handle.
So, stealth bomber is a kind of cover op with reasonable firepower.
There are lots of option in defensive warfare to use a stealth bomber.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.26 06:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Aotearorian
Because bombers sitting at gates under cloak they always can know forces that come in and give warning if there more pirates then Geddon can tank or they can handle.
So, stealth bomber is a kind of cover op with reasonable firepower.
So? Any ship can fit an Improved Cloak II. Bombers just go slightly faster cloaked (but still slower then covert ops). And the DPS of bombers sucks. So just stick a cloak on assault frigs or Intys and you have a ship thats better then a bomber.
Thats my problem with bombers. The "stealth" should be taken out of their names because they are no more "stealth" then any other ship with an Improved cloak II.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Aotearorian
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Posted - 2005.08.26 07:12:00 -
[50]
I do not know.
I you check, you will see that Stealth Bomber has 1.5-2 times more CPU avalible to him then correspondent Assault frigs. That give mach more flexibility to use CPU hangry modules, Cloack is one of them. In addition they have more middle slots then correspondet assult frig. That give them additional opportunity to use CPU hangry modules. Wery long locking range and higth sensor strength made them additionally usefull as EW support ships.
But, they are difinetly not for one-one figth.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.26 13:05:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Aotearorian
I do not know.
I you check, you will see that Stealth Bomber has 1.5-2 times more CPU avalible to him then correspondent Assault frigs. That give mach more flexibility to use CPU hangry modules, Cloack is one of them. In addition they have more middle slots then correspondet assult frig. That give them additional opportunity to use CPU hangry modules. Wery long locking range and higth sensor strength made them additionally usefull as EW support ships.
But, they are difinetly not for one-one figth.
I own a manticore.
There is no need to use EW at the range stealth bombers can fight at, nothing but BS can hit you, and you are not a threat to them. Also you will need at least one sensor booster to over come the nerf from the cloak, and two if you actually want to lock a Indy before it warps off. High sensor strength? So what! Anything you can't kill in the first salvo can kill you. Oh and the manticore, harpy and hawk all have the same number of mids.
As an EW support ship? 
Get a maulus, it costs a few hundred K instead of 10 mil. And due to its bonus is better then any bomber.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
QwaarJet
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Posted - 2005.08.26 21:43:00 -
[52]
I own a Nemesis and love it.I've killed Interceptors, Assault Ships, Frigates, Cruisers, you name it.It's a great ship.It doesn't need boosted.The good thing about it is surprise.People think it sucks.Some guy in a Vengeance ignored me while going after an Ishkur.After one volley he was in structure, thanks to 800 damage per shot.He ran off after that.
Stay at long range, try and not be seen(without using the cloak, it nerfs the setup).
2 x Cruise Launcher
Webifier
Remote Sensor Dampner
Tech 2 Sensor Booster
Shield Booster
2 X RCU.
That's without the ability to use Micro Aux Power Cores.With one of them in, your setup will be substantially better.You can equip for Interceptor's more by adding a Nosferatu, to suck their MWD ability away quicker.Without MWD, Inties die REAL quick to Bombers.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Aotearorian
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Posted - 2005.08.28 11:13:00 -
[53]
Originally by: QwaarJet
2 x Cruise Launcher
Webifier
Remote Sensor Dampner -------------- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! execly what I mean when I sad EW
Tech 2 Sensor Booster
Shield Booster
2 X RCU.
That's without the ability to use Micro Aux Power Cores.With one of them in, your setup will be substantially better.You can equip for Interceptor's more by adding a Nosferatu, to suck their MWD ability away quicker.Without MWD, Inties die REAL quick to Bombers.
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Morhon
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:28:00 -
[54]
Just let the dam things use the covert ops cloak... will make it much more usefull.
One other thing.... why on gods earth is it only the caldari one that can fit 3 launchers? What the hell is the point in giving other ships more turret hard points? You can't actually fit them all because of the launchers and the damage comparison is a joke.
Does my bum look big in this cape? |
Mar vel
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Posted - 2005.09.02 17:38:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Mar vel on 02/09/2005 17:49:35
Edited by: Mar vel on 02/09/2005 17:45:44
Stealth Bomber is an Oxymoron. Like Jumbo Shrimp.
Limitations that prohibit this ship from be useful:
1. Can't cloak if someone is targeting you - so fire and cloak is a forgone conclusion.
2. Where are the shield/armour bonuses that we see with other T2 frigs?
3. 5th slot on manticore is all but useless unless you have extreme engineering and weapons fitting skillpoints.
4. Lack of using the Covert Ops cloak makes this nothing more than a Kessie on steroids (holdover from Pre-Castor days? - why not just allow fitting heavy/cruise on kessies again?)
5. No bonus (or counter-effect) to the penalty of using the Cloak means that for the most part your prey is escaping. I had 2x f-90 (60% ea), and it was 8+ seconds to lock an NPC cruiser.
6. The alternative (which is not present) would be to make this ship be able to sit in a fight at close range - which it cannot do against anything.
7. The idea of stealth bomber implies that (much like the B-2) it can fire while cloaked. Obviously this is not the case.
8. Cannot use ab while cloaked. Duh. @ 270 km / sec, and no way to warp while cloaked, you might as well grab your T1 frigate. At least then you won't be upset when it gets popped. @ 25m, a Manticore is a sizable investment. Especially since they cost a fraction of that to make.
Honestly, save your iskies.
I can get the same results with a Kessie. Using Std Missles 5 / Std Missle Specialization, and dropping a launcher for the cloak -the net result is the same. - the only difference is the range, which is moot. If your going to attack anything from 100k km - why would you be doing it in a Stealth Bomber. You might as well be doing it from the safety of a Scorp/Raven, and actually be able to take a hit. Fleet engagements are likewise no better. A rear guard? Why? it won;t take a massive hit, which means it has to rely on range or stealth. Stealth is kaput because no warp while cloaked. Range is moot, because other ships do better damage from that range. As a gank ship it's useless because of the cloak penalty for locking times. SO net/net is it looked great on paper, but it's not much of anything - except for expensive.
This ship, in it's current configuration(s), serves no practical purpose that cannot be done with a T1 ship, or with the Covert Ops scout ship.
Just curious - this ship's layout looks to me like it was the product of something bigger that got extreme nerfed in review - or that it is the product of 2 different developers. How about overhauling it? Couldn't be that difficult...
Overhaul:
1 simple, and potentially devastating overhaul would make this ship the butt-kicker it should be: fire while cloaked. The it would be a stealth bomber, and it would be a feared weapon. That would rule.
'Natch, that'll never happen.
But sure would be nice.
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