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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 18:59:00 -
[1]
Taking into consideration the new Missile changes and the already in place problems with hitting frigates that BS's have does anyone agree that there should be BS size turrets that specialise in taking out frigates... i mean i agree that even modern day Battleships would have trouble tracking speedy small targets with their deck guns so they have specialised weaponry installed to do so.
We all know that using your remaining 2 or 3 slots doesn't cut it for taking out frigates, especially when your BS only gets bonuses to LARGE hybrids/projectiles say.
CCP could introduce specialised systems for example such as:
MINMATAR CHAINGUNS - Very rapid firing chainguns for tracking frigates & torps
AMARR CHAIN LASERS - Very rapid firing lasers to slice & dice frigates & Torps
GALLENTE POINT DEFENCE DRONES - Drones similar to the above that gun down Frigs & Torps
CALDARI DEFENDER BATTERIES - Very rapid/multi firing Defender launchers
Also another idea would be to make such mods self tracking with A.I such as f.o.f missiles, where you activate them and they auto fire on anything within 20km to save locks etc...
I think these type of mods would stop MANY of the people who are upset being disgruntled about the new changes
Please reply to the post if you think these are good ideas, keep the post bumped so it doesn't fall to the back of oblivion never to be seen by CCP again!!! 
Ant
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Cetshwayo
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:12:00 -
[2]
Yes...make BSs the "omgwtficankillanythingbuttonwithoutsupport!!1" again 
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:16:00 -
[3]
I think it's a good idea for two reasons. One, it'd make missions more doable and fun again. Two, the idea of a dedicated flak battleship in a fleet just rocks.
You have my vote sir. For what it's worth.
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:26:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cetshwayo
Yes...make BSs the "omgwtficankillanythingbuttonwithoutsupport!!1" again
Actually you have made me think deeply... and i now agree. We should keep Eve unrealistic like it is now... and my 120 million isk battleship should have very little defence against you 150k frigate...
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 10/07/2005 19:32:42
And the difference between these and small weapons that are already an effective defense against frigates?
Oh, right - you werent looking for effective. You were looking for absurdly, retardedly overpowered. Carry on then. Originally by: Antdung
Actually you have made me think deeply... and i now agree. We should keep Eve unrealistic like it is now... and my 120 million isk battleship should have very little defence against you 150k frigate...
Game balance > realism.
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:36:00 -
[6]
Oh, right - you werent looking for effective. You were looking for absurdly, retardedly overpowered. Carry on then. Originally by: Antdung
Actually you have made me think deeply... and i now agree. We should keep Eve unrealistic like it is now... and my 120 million isk battleship should have very little defence against you 150k frigate...
Game balance > realism.
Ah look, its a comment from the flaming alt again,
serious unflamed comments please
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:37:00 -
[7]
I don't think he was asking for overpowered. I mean, if you have that battleship point-defence chaingun, it costs 1800 grid, and is maybe 1.5-2x as effective as a frigate autocannon, that's not too much. While it's good against frigs, that BS pilot just gave up two slots once occupied by siege launchers, for weapons with a 10km range that do good against frigs but not much else - and he paid a lot of grid to do it.
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:39:00 -
[8]
i think you should take a good look at realism... an apache unship doesn't strap M16's to its sides to combat infantry, it uses more effecive equipment that is specialised to it...
Why should battleships use frigate weapons?
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Antdung
Ah look, its a comment from the flaming alt again,
serious unflamed comments please
I'd ask you to explain why you think these weapons would improve the game balance compared to fitting small turrets, but you and I both know you arent competent enough to make that argument.
And just for fun, I'm going to kill your 150k frigate argument. There. Done.
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Antdung
CCP could introduce specialised systems for example such as:
MINMATAR CHAINGUNS - Very rapid firing chainguns for tracking frigates & torps
AMARR CHAIN LASERS - Very rapid firing lasers to slice & dice frigates & Torps
GALLENTE POINT DEFENCE DRONES - Drones similar to the above that gun down Frigs & Torps
CALDARI DEFENDER BATTERIES - Very rapid/multi firing Defender launchers
Ant
wtf, caldari get a defender anti missile system right, but every other race gets an anti frig anti torp weapon?, where the hell is the damn balance in that ffs?
and btw, you want to hit frigs, use drones and a web like we caldari been told for the last week or so , just like i do 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:42:00 -
[11]
these are just EXAMPLES... the caldari could get a rail simmilar system
and webs dont help missile damage... check
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I don't think he was asking for overpowered. I mean, if you have that battleship point-defence chaingun, it costs 1800 grid, and is maybe 1.5-2x as effective as a frigate autocannon, that's not too much. While it's good against frigs, that BS pilot just gave up two slots once occupied by siege launchers, for weapons with a 10km range that do good against frigs but not much else - and he paid a lot of grid to do it.
Hmmm. The question is mainly range/tracking though. If you give them blaster/AC tracking with rail/artillery range, then they will obliterate every frigate in seconds.
Perhaps medium weapon type tracking with a 50m sig resolution and small rail/beam/artillery range/damage?
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Antdung
i think you should take a good look at realism... an apache unship doesn't strap M16's to its sides to combat infantry, it uses more effecive equipment that is specialised to it...
Why should battleships use frigate weapons?
Why should frigates use frigate weapons? Realism would be loading my cargo hold full of torps and ramming you, killing you instantly.
Stop being retarded. Game balance > Realism.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:44:00 -
[14]
Souns like a good idea tbh, it never seems right sticking lights onto battleships.
But an effective antifrig gun that uses Large gun power sounds reasonable.
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:45:00 -
[15]
Blind fear if you cant be adult and have to flame, u dont like my ideas?? don't post i dont wanna hear your flame
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Antdung
Blind fear if you cant be adult and have to flame, u dont like my ideas?? don't post i dont wanna hear your flame
Best way to defend your suggustions and balance ideas is to break down in a ball of tears with a tech2 tissue.
I'm convinced now, battleships need weapons that can instakill frigs.
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Cetshwayo
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Antdung
Originally by: Cetshwayo
Yes...make BSs the "omgwtficankillanythingbuttonwithoutsupport!!1" again
Actually you have made me think deeply... and i now agree. We should keep Eve unrealistic like it is now... and my 120 million isk battleship should have very little defence against you 150k frigate...
It's called NOS, web, Smartbombs, drones...
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:48:00 -
[18]
Yup there are other methods.. but why not the most obvious? a munition based defence such as guns?
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Kyle Chimko
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:48:00 -
[19]
well i think that this is already in game. i believe its called using a smaller weapon for faster tracking. BUT as a caldari pilot i wouldnt mind having the extra speedy defender missile launcher as this would defend against all missiles, but i suppose that my oppent would have it too. yay caldary standoff
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Hmmm. The question is mainly range/tracking though. If you give them blaster/AC tracking with rail/artillery range, then they will obliterate every frigate in seconds.
Perhaps medium weapon type tracking with a 40m sig resolution and small rail/beam/artillery range with double the damage?
Absolutely not, that would be overpowered. I'm talking about a weapon which, taking skills into account, has a range that tops out at 10-15km... that's what point defence means to me. It has the signature resolution of a small gun, double the damage of a 200mm autocannon AT THE MOST, and costs enough grid that its fitting has to be justified by the BS pilot. 1800mw or so.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Blind Fear
Hmmm. The question is mainly range/tracking though. If you give them blaster/AC tracking with rail/artillery range, then they will obliterate every frigate in seconds.
Perhaps medium weapon type tracking with a 40m sig resolution and small rail/beam/artillery range with double the damage?
Absolutely not, that would be overpowered. I'm talking about a weapon which, taking skills into account, has a range that tops out at 10-15km... that's what point defence means to me. It has the signature resolution of a small gun, double the damage of a 200mm autocannon AT THE MOST, and costs enough grid that its fitting has to be justified by the BS pilot. 1800mw or so.
That would work perfectly, but IMO one thing has to stay--10 or more frigates (especially tech 2) should always be able to take down a battleship easily. If point defense cannons are powerful enough to fend off an entire interceptor swarm, they're too good.
--
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:56:00 -
[22]
"Absolutely not, that would be overpowered. I'm talking about a weapon which, taking skills into account, has a range that tops out at 10-15km... that's what point defence means to me. It has the signature resolution of a small gun, double the damage of a 200mm autocannon AT THE MOST, and costs enough grid that its fitting has to be justified by the BS pilot. 1800mw or so."
Isn't that pretty much replacing the destroyer with a specialized battleship weapon(s), so the user can take the advantage of extra armour and cap the battleship can offer..?
(although admittedly it'd look cool...)
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Antdung
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:58:00 -
[23]
I agree, i'm not talking about a frigate version of the old torp of one shot death.
i'm talking a Large BS class gun that has trackng/syg radius of small guns, maybe the same/slightly more damage or more rapid fire, or even just a large ammo capacity
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Cetshwayo
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Posted - 2005.07.10 19:59:00 -
[24]
Why bother? The ones I mentioned aren't just used for anti-frig. They can be used vs any ship class really. So why bother implementing your idea when there are others that do it just fine? It'd fill a very specific role sure. But would you rather fit a web, NOS, drones etc that can tackle BSs as well as frigs or a gun that can only harm frigs?
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 20:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Blind Fear
Hmmm. The question is mainly range/tracking though. If you give them blaster/AC tracking with rail/artillery range, then they will obliterate every frigate in seconds.
Perhaps medium weapon type tracking with a 40m sig resolution and small rail/beam/artillery range with double the damage?
Absolutely not, that would be overpowered. I'm talking about a weapon which, taking skills into account, has a range that tops out at 10-15km... that's what point defence means to me. It has the signature resolution of a small gun, double the damage of a 200mm autocannon AT THE MOST, and costs enough grid that its fitting has to be justified by the BS pilot. 1800mw or so.
Double the damage of 200mm AC and give it the large weapon ship bonuses and you WILL be doing more damage then low-end large autocannon, with similar range and a ton more tracking. I'd start using nothing but those guns to kill everything of any size.
The problem is that if you increase damage of small weapons, then you're going to be doing more damage then medium and some large weapons. If you keep the tracking of small weapons, then youre going to be doing that damage to everything. You've just created the new uber short-range guns.
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Greystar
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Posted - 2005.07.10 20:01:00 -
[26]
i like to mention that i do not have any problems taking down frigates with my torpedos.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.07.10 20:11:00 -
[27]
Okay, so 1.5 times the damage. Just so that having two of these guns, would be like having a wingman in a frigate bolted to your ship. I seriously doubt this would cause any imbalance.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.07.10 20:25:00 -
[28]
Assault Launchers need more capacity, more ROF, and less cpu.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Rendai
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Posted - 2005.07.10 20:30:00 -
[29]
The problem with believability of the ship size balance in Eve is that in real life, battleships have FAR FAR FAR more than 2-3x high slots than what a tiny gunboat could carry. They can mount the same type of guns, just a hell of a lot more of them. This could be made manifest in Eve by giving BS's double the highslots they have now, but keeping the powergrid/CPU the same, and allowing powergrid/CPU to be the main limiting factors in ship fitting.
Without doing something like that, or making BS-sized anti-frig weapons, we have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of BS's being unable to wipe out small ships at all. An artificial, and unrealistic mode of forcing battleships to group.
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Barak Lizear
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Posted - 2005.07.10 20:44:00 -
[30]
Im confused here, already this has been pointed out several times, but yet everyone chooses ot ignore it in place of inventing a new, game unbalancing, uber mod of BS soloing. BS's can already take out frigates in several ways: Group with a mate in a smaller ship, carry Nos and/or Webifiers and drones, fit small guns for the tracking bonus being some of them. And to those who argue for realism beign a reason to unbalance BSs versus the other ships, remember that this is a game, and enjoyment of that game, which comes directly from it being well balanced and enjoyable for all from the newest to oldest players, is of primary importance.
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