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so why is it fun to grind for isk?

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ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:33:00 - [1] i really love this game but it feels it just uses up to much time earning money. i just went down to pc9 had a little fight they blown up my geddon. i love to fight, but i feel the little excitment i had while getting my geddon blown up (took about 1-2 minutes:) (ok somethimes i manage not getting poped:) is in no way proprtional to the time i now need to recover my losses (arround 40 mil) this is arround a week of work just to be able to have another 2 minutes of fun. i know you will say live with it, we have to deal with this aswell, dont fly ships you cant afford (actually i have enough money in my wallet to get a new one so dont come iwth this argument:). but please tell me whats the funny part about this? in every other game i played so far earning money is not that hard. also losses ar not so sevre on your wallet. (except probably on some uo free shards i have played, where you lose everythign once you die:). probably you can give me some tips how to make the game more enjoyable for a pvp nerd. what else can you do besides belt chaining and mission running? please give me some advice:) me want instant isk button :)
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:35:00 - [2] Edited by: Avon on 11/07/2005 10:35:31 It takes you a week to earn 40mil? You need to start fighting in ships you can afford to lose. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
RatBoy Deblade	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:39:00 - [3] Frigs are cheap, fast and a lot of fun to fight in. And you don¦t have a major setback if you die if you not filled all slots with officerstuff And if you think frigs are for n00bs i can inform you that many corps fight with frigfleets, they just rock
Lig Lira	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:46:00 - [4] Please press enter once in a while, it hurts my eyes ------------------------------------- Join Us!
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 11/07/2005 10:35:31 It takes you a week to earn 40mil? whats wrong with that?
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:49:00 - [6] Quote: It takes you a week to earn 40mil? Takes me longer... I hate grinding for ISK, I find that when I lose a ship and have no more ISK, I log in to chat with corp-mates, and that's about all I do for a couple weeks b4 I bite the bullet & grind ISK again. It is not fun to recover from loss, ruins the game for a while for me, but that's EVE... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:51:00 - [7] ever thought insuring your ship?
ATRADE	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:53:00 - [8] and yeah fighting in a frigat fleet is nice.. unfortunately i dont have one at hand. and most ships i dicovered arround this area are either haulers, af's, hacs and bss. so i think its not a wise idea to go there in a regular frigate.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:58:00 - [9] Quote: ever thought insuring your ship? I always insure, but that's the ISK that sucks to replace... I usually have under 1 mill in my wallet at most times... So if and when I lose my Tempest, it's bye bye BS for a while... (I'm flying something I can't afford to lose atm, so it will hurt when I do lose it) ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
RatBoy Deblade	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:59:00 - [10] Then use a cruiser
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:01:00 - [11] Quote: Then use a cruiser I don't like flying a giant dart board around... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 11/07/2005 10:35:31 It takes you a week to earn 40mil? You need to start fighting in ships you can afford to lose. Second that. If you are ready to pvp in a geddon then you are also easily able to make 40 million in 4-5 hours. If you can't do that, then don't pvp in a geddon ? Aside from that, there's very effective ways of increasing your ship replacement efficiency if you work together with other people. That might be worth considering. Going for pvp in a solo geddon is equal to losing the geddon by default most of the time anyway. Train up assault frigs, less cost, more fun, less dying. On top of this all Eve as a game is not designed to be a grind-to-replace-pvp-loss thing. It's designed as an interactive universe of corporate competition on many fronts. I suggest finding fun in more then this one challenge. Most of them don't cost much isk and are of a more intellectual nature in Eve. That's the game. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:18:00 - [13] Edited by: Bhaal on 11/07/2005 11:18:25 Quote: On top of this all Eve as a game is not designed to be a grind-to-replace-pvp-loss thing. It's designed as an interactive universe of corporate competition on many fronts. Rod, what percentage of EVE subscribers play the game to design? I'm guessing less than 10% I'd love to not have to work at all in RL and play EVE 24/7 with a goup of like minded ppl, then yes, the game design is perfect. Alas, RL puts it's stamp on the game and recovering from PvP losses is mostly a solo ISK grind effort when RL time constraints are factored in... I wish I could win the lotto, buy a bunch of EVE accounts for my family and friends, and we could all play EVE 24/7 and create the model EVE mega-corp... But then I woke up and smelled the coffee, and it smells like ****! ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:20:00 - [14] with a covetor and a good sourse of kernite or omber you can easially make 40 mill+ a DAY. (you might go insane though or lose your soul)
RatBoy Deblade	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Gamer4liff with a covetor and a good sourse of kernite or omber you can easially make 40 mill+ a DAY. (you might go insane though or lose your soul) LOL!
babyblue	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:35:00 - [16] Edited by: babyblue on 11/07/2005 11:34:49 Low sec mining kit (Kernite? Hemorphite is much friendlier these days): (1) 2 x Apoc (note: if you've recently been ganked returning to empire from 0.0 without insurance, you'll prob. have lost your Apoc's and be in geddons) (2) 1 x Bottle of Frascati (chilled in freezer) or Aussie Chardonnay with crystal wine glass (3) 20 Marlborough Lights (note: smoking is bad for you....) (4) Bar of Belgian Chocolate (5) Radio (6) Firefox web browser with multiple tabs open Now, I'm not spending ANY time mining, I am spending time drinking vino, smoking ciggies, listening to Radio 4 and surfing the web.
Demarcus	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:35:00 - [17] Originally by: RatBoy Deblade Originally by: Gamer4liff with a covetor and a good sourse of kernite or omber you can easially make 40 mill+ a DAY. (you might go insane though or lose your soul) LOL! With a Badger 2, a calculator, the market, and some common sense if you can't make at very least 5 mil isk an hour you have issues and might look into wearing a helmet 24/7. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:37:00 - [18] Edited by: Bhaal on 11/07/2005 11:38:25 Quote: with a covetor and a good sourse of kernite or omber you can easially make 40 mill+ a DAY. I know that, I have 2 "industrial accounts", but I have soured on mining (Minerals or ICE), it is the epitome of ISK grinding, it sucks... I loved mining in beta, because it enabled me to move from Bantam to Merlin... That's the last time mining did not make my eyes bleed... Quote: With a Badger 2, a calculator, the market, and some common sense if you can't make at very least 5 mil isk an hour you have issues and might look into wearing a helmet 24/7. Maybe not the case anymore with the map changes? I gave up on trade almost 1.5 years ago... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Del Narveux	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:41:00 - [19] Your figures are right but if anything, they support the OP 110%. Most of us do not have time to put in more than a couple hours a day, isk grind or not. So lets say for example you can make 4 mil an hour. 2.5 hours a day times 7 days, well thats 17.5 million. Not a bad sum, but no 40M either and leaves no time to actually do anything with it. _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:41:00 - [20] You mean hauling roes from A to B? I think doing anything "for cash" in Eve is dull and a grind. Mining to build stuff to sell it to make cash, well, theres some sense of achievement - you made something. Creative types love doing that. If you just want to PvP, hauling Roes or mining kern is the grind.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 11/07/2005 11:18:25 Quote: On top of this all Eve as a game is not designed to be a grind-to-replace-pvp-loss thing. It's designed as an interactive universe of corporate competition on many fronts. Rod, what percentage of EVE subscribers play the game to design? I'm guessing less than 10% I'd love to not have to work at all in RL and play EVE 24/7 with a goup of like minded ppl, then yes, the game design is perfect. Alas, RL puts it's stamp on the game and recovering from PvP losses is mostly a solo ISK grind effort when RL time constraints are factored in... I wish I could win the lotto, buy a bunch of EVE accounts for my family and friends, and we could all play EVE 24/7 and create the model EVE mega-corp... But then I woke up and smelled the coffee, and it smells like **! I'd gues about 80% plays the game to design in their own way. The remaining 20% only occupies themselves with solo pursuits and do little ro no interaction. Remember that everything you do that involves the market, talking and dealing with others, or competing for any resource that is nto instanced is contributing to teh complexity and to the persistency of this game environment. But when you dont or hardly use the market except to sell only or buy off npc's, when you only engage in instanced content and hardly engage in intereaction with different players, then what is your role in this big machine ? There is none, you fall outside of it all. Agent missions are the number one method by which people can and do place themselves outside of the core of Eve. Sure, most of the runners do not, but alot aren;t part of the Eve universe ina ny meaningfull way. This game was designed so that every single player influences every single other player in even the most subtle and remote way, wethe he wants to or not. Anythign taht does not contribute to that can never be a high priority in my opinion. I can live with people placing themselves outside the eve complexity, but it cannot be the basis to change the game towards. And anyway bhaal, weren't you once one fo the most vocal people that denounced playing eve with a CS:S mentality ? What in this game can be more like that then grinding missions to pay for shooting **, and not taking part in any other way ? _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Hella May	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:44:00 - [22] It is very hard to make a lot of isk if you are not online very much. Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
Jake McGuinness	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:51:00 - [23] Edited by: Jake McGuinness on 11/07/2005 11:50:55 Originally by: Del Narveux Your figures are right but if anything, they support the OP 110%. Most of us do not have time to put in more than a couple hours a day, isk grind or not. So lets say for example you can make 4 mil an hour. 2.5 hours a day times 7 days, well thats 17.5 million. Not a bad sum, but no 40M either and leaves no time to actually do anything with it. 4mil isk/h * 2.5h/day * 7 days = 70mil isk ... sorry
So'Kar	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:52:00 - [24] Buy orders. There is always someone wanting to get quick isk and is willing to sell 20% below market average.
Flyyn	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:54:00 - [25] So, I can make 40 million a day? Like to explain how I can make that much? Oh wait go out to 0.0 and get my ship and arse coated in BBQ sauce. Oh I know lets do those nasty level four missions, not anymore cause you all cried over it. So where can I make 40 million isk a day with less then 4 hours of play time a day? Cant tell me can ya? So instead of downgradeing a person that goes out to try to play this game why dont you help him?
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Flyyn So, I can make 40 million a day? Like to explain how I can make that much? Oh wait go out to 0.0 and get my ship and arse coated in BBQ sauce. Oh I know lets do those nasty level four missions, not anymore cause you all cried over it. So where can I make 40 million isk a day with less then 4 hours of play time a day? Cant tell me can ya? So instead of downgradeing a person that goes out to try to play this game why dont you help him? You want us to tell you how to play the game? If I wanted to make 40mil isk, and in safe space, it would take 3-4hrs max. If you can't earn that fast, don't put that much on the line in combat. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:57:00 - [27] Quote: And anyway bhaal, weren't you once one fo the most vocal people that denounced playing eve with a CS:S mentality ? What in this game can be more like that then grinding missions to pay for shooting ****, and not taking part in any other way ? I think a lot of the mission runners were contributing targets for PvP (some were not, and they never have, and they never will). They saw it as a way to grind ISK to replace PvP losses as opposed to mining, why not, they already have the combat skills! And besides, if I can remember correctly one of the things being touted in beta and at release was the agent system, it was supposed to be a viable career if I'm recalling the DEV video interview correctly... Running agent missions is similar to mining. You farm NPC's like miners farm roids, sell loot on the market, which other players buy, similar to selling minerals you mine. Running combat missions is more risky than mining, so there is a monetary reward that goes along with that career as well... I'd loved to be so immersed in the game and my corp that I don't have to grind to replace losses, but alas, I've been playing since beta, and replacing losses even in large corps for me has been mostly a solo effort. It's just the way it is when you're a part-timer... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.07.11 12:09:00 - [28] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 11/07/2005 12:13:01 Originally by: Hella May It is very hard to make a lot of isk if you are not online very much. It's very hard to need the same amount of isk when you are not online very much. (unless you see faction ships and mods as your reason to play, which imo isn't what Eve is for, and certainly is not what CCP should base overall balance on). Bhaal, Mission running can be very viable as a profession. What we needed to watch out for, and since exodus correct, is the balance of it all. Once mission become THE no-brainer isk generating tool in Eve then the system has overshot its goal. So, it got nerfed back into being in the place it should. And if it got overnerfed, it will get boosted again by some means. In my opinion, missions should never ever make you more isk then mining. Sure, the risk is marginally larger (both are low risk activities), but then again I think the dullness of mining and the fact that mining is by definition a 100% contribution to an larger chain in the Eve economy means that it deserves better then missions do. But we digress again. What I stated most of all is that small corporations are not relatively worse off postpatch then prepatch. That still stands. For now, I'll say my goodbyes to the issue since it's too early to go into it at this time. Wait a month, see what happened in that time, redo this discussion some more. The next issues on my list of long rants are going to be missions and other possible NPC <-> player interaction tools, and the research system. These two things now are the main things that need an upgrade imo. And -'m hoping we can push them into Kali for a nice big overhaul. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.07.11 12:18:00 - [29] Quote: But we digress again. What I stated most of all is that small corporations are not relatively worse off postpatch then prepatch. That still stands. Tell that to DarkMatter and his corp But I guess he needs to wait for the markets to settle. But I do believe that the capital ships are out of reach of the small corps (I guess they should be?). I just think that when CCP performs a large content patch like this, the content added needs to be more balanced. How about along with Freighters, double decker teir 2 Indy's be released that lets the small corps carry 100,000m3 to easier supply the mins required to build the capital ship components, etc... (Not T2 Indy's that cost 200 mill, tier 2 Indy's that cost 20-30 mill with 50% platinum insurance coverage, etc) I think the patch was a snub to small corps, solo players in general... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Andrue	Posted - 2005.07.11 12:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Bhaal Quote: It takes you a week to earn 40mil? Takes me longer... I hate grinding for ISK, I find that when I lose a ship and have no more ISK, I log in to chat with corp-mates, and that's about all I do for a couple weeks b4 I bite the bullet & grind ISK again. It is not fun to recover from loss, ruins the game for a while for me, but that's EVE... Why not mine and/or watch TV while you chat? That's what I've been doing since the New Year and I've been averaging 30mil a week from Scordite. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.

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