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Newbies are almost chanceless?

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Shintai	Posted - 2003.07.14 21:46:00 - [1] Since im an old player with lot of cash, sec rating, BPs etc. I wondered..how is it to start as a new player. 1. Mining? Then you have to fight the AFK miners within some hours before the belts in newbie areas and around are empty. 2. Combat...doable. 3. Trading..very doable, but need startingcash and most likely an indy. 4. Manufactor? No, you will need PE lvl3-4 to even have a chance and a fat startupcash. 5. Pirate..no, and tho..steal ore in empire space...yes! Start new corp? No offices! NPC demands already used up. Must be a really hard life for a new one. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Arathmon	Posted - 2003.07.14 21:59:00 - [2] Seriously... I've got a 9.2 sec rating, bship and plenty of cash to throw around. Problem is, how can a newb hope for this? Before the patch that nerfed pirate sec bonus gains I was 8.9, and since then I've only raised 0.3... god life must be hard for a newb. --------------- I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn.
Malais	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:10:00 - [3] They have the same chances we did when we started. Actually better since there are already well established corps. out there. It's like this in ANY online game. Those who show up first ALWAYS have an advantage. n00bs can still join and have fun. I'm friends with several who started less than a week ago. Don't worry they prolly won't catch-up, but can still have fun but then who knows.
Pann	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:11:00 - [4] Ways to make the game more newbie friendly are being explored. One of the most frequently made comments about Eve is that the learning curve is very sharp. We hope that by implementing some of the ideas the team is developing, new players will have an easier time of getting acquainted with the interface and some safe areas to test their mettle before venturing out into the mainstream. No ETA for when the changes will start coming in, but - in the immortal words of game developers everywhere - we expect to start testing some of it out on Chaos "soon" (tm). Eve Community Manager [email protected] CCP
Shintai	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:13:00 - [5] They don¦t have the same chances as we did. Read above and think. You need skills and realtime training before you can even start. Want to compete on the market vs someone with PE lvl 4?..sure..it cost that person 16% less to make his or hers products. Want to mine? Sure, if you hurry and fight the AFK miners before you have to move to space with NPCs. Want to start a new corp? Sure find some offices. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:14:00 - [6] We all started as noobs, and we all had noob ships and noob equipment, but we DID make it through hard work and dedication. So iam sure noobs today will do the same. But it wont help shouting "noobs are chanceless" becuase noone will yell "come here and have 100 milion isk and a couple of battleships" "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
Arathmon	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:18:00 - [7] I seem to recall ninja mining arkonor in a velator... how many newbs can do that nowadays? Granted, however, it is easier to advance due to the market collapsing (I paid 11 million for my thorax 6 weeks ago and thought it was a good deal... ha!) and wider availability of items. --------------- I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn.
Shintai	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:22:00 - [8] Raven, try make a n00b char and mine/fight whatever for your first ship. And tell me how many times its harder than when you started the game. Even tho market prices have hammered the next frigate so low in value. It¦s always easier when you got it, to tell others that it¦s just abit of work. I tell the people I kill the same, nomatter how hard they worked for their cruiers or Battleship. For me its just stock items, for them it¦s work. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Phoibos	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:29:00 - [9] Tsk, really it's not that bad. Get a pretty good frig and mine some, then get an indy. hunt some pirates for fun and the get a cruiser and powermine. now you have plenty of millions. /Phoibos
Shintai	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:31:00 - [10] Phoibos: Look http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=19962 And try again. Edited by: Shintai on 14/07/2003 22:31:17 Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Xane	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:32:00 - [11] Ome thing in newbie's favour is the Agent missions, virtually none existed when the game started, and up until 2 patches ago the rewards were abyssmal and the missions long and hard. All that has been cleaned up, Agents offer about 3x or 4x the reward, the missions are all doable and there's a better chance of climbing the Agent tree, plus the additional services work and some skills apply. It is possible for a newbie to build up the essential capital using Agents alone now, if they want to go on to do mining/trading with some serious equipment. Edited by: Xane on 14/07/2003 22:32:25 x a n e
Galk	Posted - 2003.07.14 22:49:00 - [12] Problems are realy starting to bite in 1.0 for total newbs, Like the first few hours/day in. No roid belts what so ever, soon the 9's will be dusted too. it's hard enough talking them through the basics, without the hassle of moving them through 0.8's and sorting them out with npc's on the first day, when they don't know nothing about the game because the tutorial crashes on just about everyone:( Something that realy needs sorting, i hear people in are corp channel shouting 'good send the noobs out to x belts, 10 jumps away. To me thats not realy fair, obviously there not ready for it, and neither should they be expected to be:( ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Plasmatique	Posted - 2003.07.14 23:03:00 - [13] I believe its all relative. Noobs have fewer chances to make big money...but things cost alot less. When we started up, we were buying ships from NPC's at NPC prices. I bought my first merlin for 570k, now they sell for under 200k. We were buying full-cost blueprint originals. Now a noob who wants to make something can buy a copy for a fraction of the price. This affect the abilities of noob to research, but how exciting is it to throw a BP into a lab for 100 batches anyway? I also believe that if a career path is chose wisely and the player follows it, big money can be made in the future. Not right now as some of these things arent in the game yet. Like mnemonics, implants and boosters. Tell me, how many people have developed characters with any of those skills? ..................................... Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven
Zorael	Posted - 2003.07.14 23:27:00 - [14] <<Raven, try make a n00b char and mine/fight whatever for your first ship. And tell me how many times its harder than when you started the game. Even tho market prices have hammered the next frigate so low in value>> Actually I tried it a few days ago when my main char got stuck. I found it to be a lot easier than when I started playing retail on may 12th. I was able to buy an imicus in about 1 hour just by killing 2500 isk pirates with my velator fitted with a pair of light electron blasters (2k each). Ships and equipment are both very easy to get and very cheap, and it's a significant advantage I think. - - - Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.07.14 23:40:00 - [15] "It is possible for a newbie to build up the essential capital using Agents alone now, if they want to go on to do mining/trading with some serious equipment." Yup. Been playing casually for maybe 10 days, made nearly a million just flying around in a Condor with short breaks to shoot some NPCs. Spent probably another million on skills, the other ship and equipment by now. (these aren't any high numbers, i know but i'd rather have fun at my own lazy pace than stare at the same rock for more than 5 mins =) Btw, took maybe 2o mins to find office for rent so it's not like it's so difficult for new players, either...
Rogue Noir	Posted - 2003.07.14 23:45:00 - [16] "I also believe that if a career path is chose wisely and the player follows it, big money can be made in the future. Not right now as some of these things arent in the game yet. Like mnemonics, implants and boosters. Tell me, how many people have developed characters with any of those skills?" At last! Someone thinking along the same lines as me. My character is not set up for mining or fighting, hes a moderatly good trader but he will really come into his own when the game gets the blackmarket working right and boosters into the game. I dont see the probvlem with making a little less ISK now and preparing properly to make tons in the future. Also price is indeed relative well done. Oh and Wretch, stop with the office rant already, I started one 2 days ago in a .6 system 6 jumps from a noob system. Its not THAT hard to find office space. ----------------------------------------------- Shady trader, fence and gentleman extrordionaire. Noir Enterprises Site
Sinzer	Posted - 2003.07.14 23:52:00 - [17] Blame those carebears afk mining and strip mining in 0.0. ************************************ Explorer Extradonaire Any contract large or small Http://www.explore-eve.net
Jolo	Posted - 2003.07.15 00:13:00 - [18] Most new guys will have it better off. If I started now, I could join a corp, prolly get a free cruiser, and plus i get all the help from other members. ---------------------------------------
Fneb	Posted - 2003.07.15 00:32:00 - [19] Actually, it's not hard at all in newbieville. There is plenty of ore to be mined with a lowly Probe out in 0.8 space. And a newbie can easily make money just buying and selling Isogen. It only takes a weekend or so to earn enough for a small pirate hunting frigate like a Rifter with a full set of guns. I have no trouble in 0.5 or higher sec space with that and I can even venture out to 0.3 space and run away if things get to hot. Is there a reasonable chance of catching up to player who started from the beginning? Probably not, but that doesn't really matter. There are plenty of things to do at this level and as we progress in skills, there will still be many other players at the same position as us. Most of the issues posted on the forum are overrated. I have not encountered a pirate blockade, had anyone steal ore from me and I'm not yet ready to start manufacturing anything yet although I know that there are a few players in my newbie corp that are sucessfully making missiles and other small items. Maybe after I make a few million ISK and buy and lose a few cruisers I might start getting jaded. For now I'm having fun and I see a very long and interesting game ahead. :)
Archemedes	Posted - 2003.07.15 00:52:00 - [20] "Blame those carebears afk mining and strip mining in 0.0." AFK mining in 0.0 space? Where pirates are still free to blow you to bits and steal your ore (and mining lasers, and any other goodies)? Assuming the NPC pirates don't notice you and eat you alive first? How does someone go about AFK mining in 0.0?
Damon Vile	Posted - 2003.07.15 01:08:00 - [21] My first punisher cost 525,000 isk There was no one in battleships leaving loot cans cuz all they want is the money. Every corp had nothing there where no free top end frigates when you join, no cash to get a few skills to get started no nothing. Yes you could go anywhere and find empty unused stations but everything we built we bult from nothing. Noods have it hard but no harder then we did. It's just different thats all.
V'cassLord Daeth	Posted - 2003.07.15 01:43:00 - [22] This post is a joke...join a good corp...with a little iniative you can easily get rich quick...skilled nope, but there are far more skills you can learn fast from corp profs.....they will get you farther in the short/mid run anyways.... That's the price you pay for not opting in at the beginning...however, the new newbies can take adavantage of an organized and developed system, tailored to help them out, and get them rocking right off the bat if they choose to...not sit in a newbie uni corp, that is. take a chance....and you will be given chances! those of us who pioneered eve...we did a lot of mind numbing mining, and running all over the galaxy at a snails pace in crap frigate for weeks...making hoards of stupid mistakes that cost us millions, while we figured out how to do everything from scratch...a great challenge it was! Everyone remeber watching...70 000k of isogen blow up in your face cause you didn't switch containers every hour! crap like that...and worse! Not everyone that started at the beginning has tons either...those that are creative and innovative in eve will rule...wether they started today or 2 months ago. There are more ways to become powerful, influencial and wealthy in eve...without being lord zap... Newbies just have to figure out how to use the present system to their advantage same as we did. It can be done, be postive, and it will be. Its hard to find good peeps, and good ceo's know that. If you suck...you'll never make it anyways, nevermind when you started...eve is chess...don't be a pon....being the stationary bogged down king can be fun?... :P, being the aggressive ruthless queen is funner! :) Use the corps...figure out the order and wield it to your designs... Cya in game. V'cass Lord Daeth Freelancer Ex-CEO p.s.The really great chances are not found...they are made...don't wait and hope that everyone else is going to give you something, don't hope for anything...take control of your fun... Eve is ripe for the picking...don't wait for that apple to fall on your head! PLUCK PLUCK PLUCK! Edited by: V'cassLord Daeth on 15/07/2003 01:54:42
Lola	Posted - 2003.07.15 04:40:00 - [23] Don't you mean noobies are almost clueless? ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
Frakture	Posted - 2003.07.15 05:03:00 - [24] CCP needs to impliment boosters and implants. Then the n00b's will be set in the skill department.
Xane	Posted - 2003.07.15 07:57:00 - [25] My character is not set up for mining or fighting, hes a moderatly good trader but he will really come into his own when the game gets the blackmarket working right and boosters into the game Heh, I've been waiting since day one (well day two as my original CD was scratched) for trade skills to come online, still waiting ... How hard would it be to put the trade & diplomacy skills in the market so at least I can develop my character while I wait ? x a n e
Bolka	Posted - 2003.07.15 08:35:00 - [26] At the moment a newbie who wants more than casual playing has but one choice: join a big corp. It is actually already starting to get difficult for smaller corps who started at the beginning of the game. Ok, they have BPs and many advantages over new comers, but big corps are shutting them down: access to 0.0 space is becoming difficult, trade revenues are becoming thin ... I'm not complaining though, I actually think it is great and impressive players can play such a great part in a game, that the game is a canvas and players are writing the content. But one has to admit the story has started, new comers would have a hard catching up, and will be looking at much more work and time to achieve what many players have achieved today.
Koinski	Posted - 2003.07.15 10:21:00 - [27] I'm not a noob, i started on the second week of retail with some beta behind me already. But i decided to go solo and mostly NPC hunting as a career (now i'm in a 3 member corp, same thing). Yesterday i has thinking i have always been behind the nerfs: When i got in the game, i could no longer mine the big ore in empire space. Then it was the medium ore. I made a living of npc pirates up to a cruiser. When i was finally going to move into 0.0, PC pirates blew me back to a frigate. I regrouped and was building up again to be able to go into 0.0 again, and then blam!Nerf again. This time on loot drops, and now i know it is very unlikely ill ever get the exotic weaponry everybody with my play time flashes around. It may be dificult for a newbie. But it is almost impossibly frustrating for a newbie solo. Unless no one tells him how easy it was before....
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.07.15 11:23:00 - [28] << This time on loot drops, and now i know it is very unlikely ill ever get the exotic weaponry everybody with my play time flashes around. >> I'm actually not too concerned about the 'rares' already out there. They'll get lost to attrition if the devs don't reverse themselves and start with the overloot again. It's been seen in many other mmorpgs before. AO, for example, at the Freedom Arms pistol at release with an insane drop rate. Not super-uber but just special enough that everyone was running around wielding two. The devs nerfed the spawns on them, permanently. Within about a month or two they became really scarce. Now, they're Ebay material if you can find someone that actually has one. The rest were all lost in the ether through just bugs (no corpse rot/item destruction in AO). So if the 650mm Scouts stay as rare as they are, they'll start disappearing and people will start to return to what's currently availible. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Lianhaun	Posted - 2003.07.15 11:39:00 - [29] I'm just sweet lil' girl when noobs lock me, i usually chat to them a bit and explain them how thinsg work. They can ask me queestions..and when were int eh same area i might give them some guns that pirates drop the entire time like 75mm's so i think that if teh newbees want to make it far in this game, they can...the first corp channel seems to do more then the help channel. This is not a hijack
Mandible	Posted - 2003.07.15 12:24:00 - [30] I guess it is all a matter of what goals you set yourself to. I started 2 weeks ago, didn't know anything by that time. Because i like the feelig of a new game and challenge i decided to keep solo for the first month or so. I make many mistakes and lose alot off cash/assets due to some stupid mistakes, i do read the forum's however so i have a slight advantege. I don't have a cruiser but that wasn't may main goal anyway, i got 48 skills and my own corp with some offices in outer regions and a HQ in a centered system. I feel very well rounded with a focus on mining/industrial skills. I don't have the feeling i can't acomplish anything...HOWEVER...... Eventhough i make some nice profit ratings ones in a while i can't compete trading with people owning 2 or even 3 accounts or large Corp's. Also i stopped advertising to provide with minerals i mine myself to hope for a better price then the npc gives...yesterday i had my first client. That is i thought i had one till the guy told me it would only be profitable doing bussenis with me if i could provide with numbers i can only dream of. I know i will NEVER catch up on the few thousand of people who started some month's ago, especialy not soloing. It is like starting a small shop next to a world wide established Multi-national and hoping to be some sort of competition. I might aswell buy a ticket in a lottery. I love the game and have loads of fun...there is only one thing i really dislike.........AFK Mining.........It is like the time the car factories where equipped with automated prodution lines, making the working class hero useless :P Edited by: Mandible on 15/07/2003 12:27:33
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2003.07.15 22:44:00 - [31] Pann, can you do us a favor and kick CONCORD out of .5 and below systems. Oh, and dont make HMBs and Gauss so darn rare =/ I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Stonyvision	Posted - 2003.07.16 10:55:00 - [32] Ingame for a week now. I have enough for getting a MOA but i am in no hurry. No we wont be in a Battleship as fast is the starting players were. That is good because it never was intended to be like that. Btw: This is my second account and i play eve since beta 4. I KNOW the game and i KNOW that it's no problem at all to get going if you start NOW. YOu can't beat a guy who started at launch and sits in his Apaocalypse but isn't that obvious? There's nothing wrong and players whop start inj months have more fun than we had because there will be storyline and more of anything else. (more ships more items.... LESS BUGS) This game is not about being the ruler of the universe!!! It's about having fun but some of you just forgot about that and sit in that damn belt and strip mine it until no roid is left. Pityful!
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2003.07.24 07:27:00 - [33] Edited by: Shintoko Akahoshi on 24/07/2003 07:28:24 I agree with Stony. Sure, the people who've been playing since the dawn of time have had the best chance of becoming rich and powerful. They were there during the initial land grab. Their skills have been training for longer. Big deal. There are nine bazillion people playing this game. There is always going to be someone richer, more skilled, or more powerful than you. Does that make it less fun? I don't think so. I've been playing Eve for almost 2 weeks now. I'm having a blast. I'm probably the least experienced (both player and character) in my (very small corporation), but that doesn't keep things from being fun. When you're new and in a small ship, making 10k deals seems heroic. Defeating some random NPC pirate is like conquering the world. And eventually I won't be a newbie. My skills will be great. My ships powerful. And that will be cool, too. It won't make the things I'm doing now any less fun, though. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense
Carp Riddell	Posted - 2003.07.24 08:33:00 - [34] Quote: "It only takes a weekend or so to earn enough for a small pirate hunting frigate like a Rifter with a full set of guns. I have no trouble in 0.5 or higher sec space with that and I can even venture out to 0.3 space and run away if things get to hot." Some things are definately harder now, that's for sure. Before the patch that fixed the guns (i.e. when combat was completely trivial) I could easily deal with belt NPC pirates in a Rifter down to 0.07 sec (Ennur). It was a matter of lock target, fire the 250s, enjoy coffee and cigarette, repeat. - Carp Riddell - CEO, Innsmouth Shipping - Proud Member of Curse Alliance
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.24 08:37:00 - [35] I never came here for the money anyway, so my newbie days weren't lucrative in the slightest. I just went for the agent missions. This was before I started spewing my thoughts on the forum, or I would have realised that at the time there was nothing above a level 2 agent. And the pay sucked nuts. Mining never appealed to me. Bounty hunting did though, so as soon as I could afford it, I got a cruiser, and went looting in the outer regions. My natural skill and deftness of thought helped me through this. And so did a wad of skillpoints. intelligent newbies have it easier now though. If they read the posts on this board, they will not only do a better job of char creation than me, but they will recieve innumerable tips on gameplay, and money-making opporunities. on the negative side they have lost out on: Ark mining in Empire space (I was too late for this too ;/) Common rare loot drops Stacking mod bug The beginnings of heavy profit trade runs on the positive side, they missed out on: Getting podded with no clones available buying a ship at NPC prices Having to do 20 jumps (with no highway) just to get some bloody ammo. And then only being able to fit 30-40 mins worth in your hold. So, all in all, I think they got a better deal now. Plus, there's some very helpful people floating around these days too, so advice isn't as hard to come by. .
Sybylle	Posted - 2003.07.24 10:12:00 - [36] I've just started a new character yesterday and spoke with some noobs around there. I think the first thing to do is improve the tutorial. It's really basic and I spoke with some noobs having loads of problem doing anything...well, at least one of them is really stupid ...Travelling in an impairor, he was unable to mine. And it seems he was wandering when Gauss shoot him ...He posted loads of @!%#& on the channel Anyway...Finding good roids can be hard. About joining corps, many do not know what a corp can bring/if you can leave it/does it cost... One of them was trying to move his hangar to another station...He didn't know that he got place in each station he docks. Another one didn't know how to train new skills.. That's why they are noobs, OK...But may be this kind of basics should be explained in the tutorial. Anyway, I moved to find some roids and all I can tell is that I found loads of corp in 1.0-0.8 that weren't noobs at all and where mining with bestower for omber. This should be let to noobs...I mean. I've seen ppl with battleship to fight NPC pirates in that kind of belts I think I never saw more bestowers than last night mining omber Yes it's easier...But you know what? I had to move until I reach a 0.6 belt to be alone for mining. And I managed to kill NPC pirates with my torm to mine kernite All this BB and bestower should be were I'm now...Not in noob space. Added to that...It's impossible to sell isogen highter than 50isk around there. In some location it's under 30isk. How much will it take for a noob to get "rich" enought for a cruiser? It's stupid and it doesn't helps noobs to like the game (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.24 10:37:00 - [37] To stop people AFK mining, get the biggest cruiser you can find, fit 1 or 2 MWD's on it, find AFK miner. line up with him from about 20km, using very low speed. When lined up, hit the MWD's. If you hit straight, and fast enough, you can punt him well out of range of his roid. Either that, or go around ECM bursting them so they lose their targets. Or you could just flat-out destroy them. And run. .
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.07.24 11:07:00 - [38] Or you can just declare war on their corps
eXaro	Posted - 2003.07.24 11:30:00 - [39] wtf help a poor n00b then who still is in a frig. gimmi some isk [i]Innocent child how you thought you knew me understood my ways my dark needs the hunt is not the thrill Im after I want the kill the conquest to

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