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Medivineone
Fifth Column Manufacturing
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 14:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
when will ccp make a skill plex to take time off training? gratz on 10 :) |
Laurinius
Uplifting Infernal Paradise Zombie Ninja Space Bears
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 14:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
They already have: 1) Buy many plexes 2) Sell plexes for isk 3) Buy a character that has the skills you want |
Morwraith
Obstergo Exhale.
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 16:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.
Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.
Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.
Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players. |
GreenSeed
169
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Morwraith wrote:I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.
Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.
Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.
Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players.
TL;DR
plex for SP is Pay2Win.
/thread |
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Morwraith wrote:I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.
Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.
Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.
Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players. TL;DR plex for SP is Pay2Win. /thread
Why would you bother commenting on something if it's "too long and you didn't read" it? People crack me up! |
GreenSeed
169
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
because regardless of your argument, its moot. plex for SP is pay2win, want to know the closest moment eve got to dying? the moment CCP suggested they might go in that direction.
it wont happen, you can still go and buy a character as suggested. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
In that case train your character with the skills you want to have and be patient like everyone else who has ever played EVE. If you really really want more SP right now then you need to pick between that and your current toon's name and appearance.
Like you I am rather attached to my toon's name and I know that there are plenty of other characters out there that I will never catch up to SP wise. But despite my subscription not being active for about 2.5 years of my character's existence I can effectively compete with people who have more SP than I do in a surprising number of ships and situations.
And you can catch up. Its called specialization. There are only so many skills that you can train to make your Thorax, Slasher, Abaddon, or Drake more effective. Once you have them all trained to 5 you are equal to or better than any veteran in that ship.
In the end all time gives you is more versatility. And that is the one and only real advantage that older characters have. |
Sunji Shaishi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
No. No.] No. No.
This clear enough? :D |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
982
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 17:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:because regardless of the argument, its moot. plex for SP is pay2win, want to know the closest moment eve got to dying? the moment CCP suggested they might go in that direction.
it wont happen, you can still go and buy a character as suggested.
This. If all you have to do is pump actual currency into the game to get everything you want, the game will have already died. |
Myrissa Kistel
Planetary Logistics
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.01 18:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Catch up to what? A character with 100 million skill point sitting in a frig can be just as effective as a 10 million character in the same thing. That 100 million skill point character only real advantage is being able to go from 1 frig to another.
I've also had some friends join saying they would be useless compared to a high skill point character. I explained to him, we can make you a tackler, it is your job to hold the target down. Without you this will impossible. You are actually the most important person in this group. An hour or so later after running the tutorial to get used to the menus, train up a few fast skills we had him in frig. We roamed around, he tackled, we all blew up it was great.
This is the only MMO I know of that can have a newbie character join a veteran and be useful, and intergral to the group. There are no gimmicks of bumping him to my level or me downgrading to his level to help him do quests, I mean honest to goodness usefulness.
Sure he might have not the max ranges on the guns, or be able to fit T2 stuff but he will be able to fly with me, as an equal in the group. Try doing that on any other MMO after logging on and running through its tutorial.
So no, skill points are done right in Eve. |
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Morwraith
Obstergo Exhale.
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 11:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:because regardless of the argument, its moot. plex for SP is pay2win, want to know the closest moment eve got to dying? the moment CCP suggested they might go in that direction.
it wont happen, you can still go and buy a character as suggested.
Please explain how paying to increase a character's skills or skill training speed is end of the eve universe game breaking but paying for a preskilled character isn't. You throw around the term pay2win like like it doesn't already exist...I hears they implimented this thing called plex.
As far as having to just wait like everyone else... I get that arguement but just because previous players had to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to as well. If properly implimented a system could just as easily benefit older players as well. Of course ccp could just allow name changes and make this easier. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 15:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Morwraith wrote:Please explain how paying to increase a character's skills or skill training speed is end of the eve universe game breaking but paying for a preskilled character isn't. You throw around the term pay2win like like it doesn't already exist...I hears they implimented this thing called plex.
See you can buy all the skills you want on day one. Just buy a pile of Plex, sell them on the market, and buy a toon with a zillion SP. Easy. In fact if you don't sell your current toon you can even keep your name. Sure you can't have both the name and the SP, but then again Eve is all about choices. Your favorite name or piles of SP, pick one. That's why its not broken, cause its not free. Now you would think that such a tiny cost in addition to the cost of the Plex wouldn't put off anyone, but apparently it does. So I guess its rather balanced.
Morwraith wrote:As far as having to just wait like everyone else... I get that arguement but just because previous players had to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to as well. If properly implimented a system could just as easily benefit older players as well. Of course ccp could just allow name changes and make this easier.
If this idea of advancing at about the same pace as everyone else really bothers you then perhaps Eve is not the game for you. I hear that you can get to max level in WoW pretty fast with the help of a few friends. If so, can I have your stuff? |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1357
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 00:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
hell no |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
96
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 06:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Never. |
Uncle Gagarin
State Protectorate Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 09:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Morwraith wrote: Please explain how paying to increase a character's skills or skill training speed is end of the eve universe game breaking but paying for a preskilled character isn't. You throw around the term pay2win like like it doesn't already exist...I hears they implimented this thing called plex.
Easy. Your goal is to get your char a little boosted as it seems to you expensive. So let say you would like to get 2 skillboosts 1mln SP each for 2 PLEXes because it is defined by your financial abilities. You will got a little boosted char saving relatively little time and gaining not so much overall.
Imagine now a character which already has 100mln SP and 100bln ISK he dont know what to do. He will boost himselfs in no time to 200mln SP just by emptying his wallet.
But that's not end.
Imagine characters with ability to earn equivalent of 1 PLEX per day or even 2 PLEXes per day if they will spend just a bit more time. Our 200mln SP guy is one of them. Such a char is gaining 1 or 2 mln SP every day. In a month he makes char boost by 30-60millions. It means he will pay for jumping several years of skilling.
Such boosts will not be single. They will be massive. But wait, you aren't capable of earning 1 PLEX a day, aren't you ? Same about a lot of others new players or casual players. They will became food for 500mln SP megachars.
Welcome in Slaveworld Online. They paid to be your lords. |
Velarra
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 15:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
I can't say i'm particularly in favor of this idea, however more from a devil's advocate pov - to those who object to this:
What is more important ?
The Human Player game-skill, will, social connections & networking, time availability etc. -The intangibles that make an experienced player deadly behind the controls of a 50k sp char.
OR - a character's SP total ?
Edit:
My personal objections to the proposed idea would quite honestly be tied to the plex market & painfully skyrocketing plex values this would trigger. From any other pov, - what are we saying to new players about the value of their very low SP.. vs. player skill they can develop personally while flying with more experienced players who can teach them eve mechanics & tactics? |
Orlacc
200
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 20:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wish they made a smart Plex... |
KiwiMatt
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 07:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
"As far as having to just wait like everyone else... I get that arguement but just because previous players had to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to as well. If properly implimented a system could just as easily benefit older players as well. Of course ccp could just allow name changes and make this easier." ________________________________________________________________________________________
I get your point... if I was about to start playing eve right now and was told players were about 10 years ahead of me and i could never catch up, I simply would not subscribe.
Points about specilization, being effective at one thing after a very short time etc are all very well... but I would still have a niggling feeling that things wern't fair.
I normally jump on for 3-5 hours a week, and along the way slowly ammassed 160m+ sp's... I would have no problem with a system whereby while you are online, skill training happens 25% faster, then back to normal when you log off.
cheers Matt
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 14:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
KiwiMatt wrote:... I would have no problem with a system whereby while you are online, skill training happens 25% faster, then back to normal when you log off.
cheers Matt
And then everyone would just stay logged on AFK 23/7 and nothing would really change at all. |
Uncle Gagarin
State Protectorate Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 16:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: And then everyone would just stay logged on AFK 23/7 and nothing would really change at all.
Are you sure about that ? What about increased servers load to keep data of 500000 players online instead of 50000 ? :>
Regarding "someone has 10 years and I will not subscribe" - you are overreacting here. There are not so many such skilled ppl online, most of them gone long time ago. Also, most of ppl don't keep account paid for several years so as a result from 10 year char you will get 2year paid one. Still difference but not so huge. Also please consider - EvE is a type of game where 1 month old char can do a lot if he plays in a group ...
Cheers,
|
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 17:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Uncle Gagarin wrote: Are you sure about that ? What about increased servers load to keep data of 500000 players online instead of 50000 ? :>
I don't think players generate much load on the server if they are AFK. It's only when they start doing things, especially combat, that the server has to actually do something other than just maintain a TCP connection. So I think that having most of the player base logged on AFK most of the time wouldn't be a big deal. Besides given the huge number of alts in Eve there will be an awfully large number of toons that won't login unless another toon on the same account logs out. Then again I could be wrong.
Uncle Gagarin wrote: Regarding "someone has 10 years and I will not subscribe" - you are overreacting here. There are not so many such skilled ppl online, most of them gone long time ago. Also, most of ppl don't keep account paid for several years so as a result from 10 year char you will get 2year paid one. Still difference but not so huge. Also please consider - EvE is a type of game where 1 month old char can do a lot if he plays in a group ...
Cheers,
I agree completely here. I know plenty of people that stopped training their main to train an alt or two for very long periods of time. I also know people who just forget to train their toons for weeks or even months at a time. And a great many high SP toons just aren't around any more due to people quitting. And lots of people (myself included) have taken breaks from the game for months or even years at a time. And people do forget to update their medical clones now and then and loose SP when they get podded. And people loose T3 cruisers fairly often and have to retrain the sub systems.
And years back when we had learning skills that took about 2 months to fully train (and as a result most people didn't train them all to 5) and before remaps existed the average SP/hour was way lower than it is today with everyone already having all the learning skills "built in" and specialized remaps allowing for per/wil and int/mem alternating yearly plans at max training speed.
The advantage that older toons have really isn't as big as some people seem to think it is. Sure there are guys out there with 2003-2004 toons that have silly amounts of SP, but there really aren't that many of them. And people seem to forget, once you reach a certain level of SP your ability to make ISK doesn't really go up as you gain SP anymore. But the cost of your medical clone never stops going up a long as you keep training. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
807
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 19:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
skills are fine. l2p
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Panamera MaseratiGT
Hathor Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
This idea is great and I am totally support of this idea for the following reasons 1. So people will shut up and stop asking same things again and again 2. Make it $100 USD per 1 sp, so if people want a million sp, they need to pay 100 million USD to CCP. CCP can use the money to hire dev and improve game content for all players. And millions sp won't break the game 3. Pilots can brag about they have a character worth multi-hundreds million USD in game in front of his friends 4. When podded without clone upgrade generates more tears because the player just lost billions in USD
Please implement for benefits of all And because I give the idea of 100USD per 1 SP Please gimme 10% when people buy the sp please |
Uncle Gagarin
State Protectorate Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 21:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Uncle Gagarin wrote: Are you sure about that ? What about increased servers load to keep data of 500000 players online instead of 50000 ? :>
I don't think players generate much load on the server if they are AFK. It's only when they start doing things, especially combat, that the server has to actually do something other than just maintain a TCP connection.
I'm speaking from systems administrator point of view (and experience). Why load will increase ?
You are right about TCP connections but it's not everything. Iddle players will require some data loaded into memory. They will ocupy some "place" i.e. stay docked on some stations thus every person passing to that system will get bigger update list "who is in the system" - this is CPU and traffic As they will skill up some skills will end and then events from client to server (or in other direction) will go (skill queue update). All map related calculations (i.e. average players docked and active) will also be based on huge tables. All of this would require much more servers capacity and substantialy increased traffic. I don't expect all players in one system or spread equally on all stations so there will be a lot of bottlenecks.
Cheers,
|
Vengeance Ignited
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 21:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:Morwraith wrote:I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.
Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.
Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.
Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players. TL;DR plex for SP is Pay2Win. /thread
and what is plex for ISK then? |
Vengeance Ignited
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 21:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:skills are fine. l2p
So if he learns to play better, his skills will train fast enough to start closing the gap? Because I bet the old timers all run with max implants and have unlocked most of everything. I'm not shitting on the SP system, it seems like a better way to do the MMO grind, but you're really damn obtuse if you don't acknowledge that there are disadvantages to it.
As a veteran player (assuming that's what you are) you should decide which you want more: a system that deliberately keeps newbies down, or a system that encourages newbies to stay and play the game long term. Because who are we kidding, when the game says 50k players are logged in, that only means ~20k human beings, if that.
So which do you want? A game where you can rip up a quickly rotating small group of newbies, or a game where the population actually grows? You don't have to give me an answer, just something to ponder. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
13953
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 01:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vengeance Ignited wrote:GreenSeed wrote:Morwraith wrote:Ridiculous stuff snipped. TL;DR plex for SP is Pay2Win. /thread and what is plex for ISK then? Trading an in game item, for game time.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Kaildoth
Generic Corp.
16
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 01:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap
why?
ccp has made thousand things better than when i started, yet you people still complain and still want more. |
Skurja Volpar
Red Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 07:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sounds like P2W to me.
If eve ever starts really dying as opposed to forum drama dying, then I might accept it as a necessary evil, but until then it's a bad idea that should be forgotten asap.
T1 ships that are actually good at something has done more to close the SP gap than this sort of BS will ever achieve.
Anyway, experience, confidence, and contacts are what make you win at eve, SP is something that sorts itself out as you gather those 3. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 23:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vengeance Ignited wrote:... Because I bet the old timers all run with max implants and have unlocked most of everything...
Really? Do you really believe that? Sorry, but, seriously?
Vengeance Ignited wrote:So which do you want? A game where you can rip up a quickly rotating small group of newbies, or a game where the population actually grows?
Do you know what happened to one of the most infamous groups of total Eve newbies? None of whom had any clue how to do *anything* when they first started, and were hated and harassed non stop by the older and more established veteran players at the time? They became Goonswarm, one of the biggest power blocks in the galaxy.
And the veteran players that harassed them? BoB has been dead and gone for a long long time now. Killed by Goonswarm in one of the greatest wars (and greatest betrayals) in Eve history. |
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