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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Olivin
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:10:00 -
[1]
Soon freighters will be available for mega corps and veteran players. Yes, freighters suppose to improve 0.0 logistics, but what will probably happens first, is that freighters will be used to dry all trade routes in Empire. We will see a lot of veteran/power players making billions of isk afk and in total safety. ( By Empire trade routes I mean NPC purchase/sell orders for the trade goods). This will effectively destroy all small trade corps as well as most of the solo/casual traders. Of course, most of "ubber" players/corps will never admit that, and why should they when they can place their traders/alts in NPC corps or in the shadow Empire outlets? I say restict freighters to 0.4 and below ( same as dreads), because:
Cold War patch requirements
1) 15 mil SP or more.
2) 1 bill ISK ( cash only) or more.
3) Member of power gamers corp.
4) At least 4 hours of the real time allocated for playing Eve on the daily basis.
Which effectively make freighters ( and most other patch content) available only to the specific group of players who should be busy developing 0.0, - not making easy isk in Empire and whining on the forums when new/solo/casual/ players infringe on a right to do the same.
Vote against freighters in Empire today!
Olivin
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:17:00 -
[2]
Give em jumpdrives and ok.
[Come to Daddy]
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:17:00 -
[3]
Whilst the issue of NPC trade runs probably needs looking at, I would have to vote against this motion. Empire operations need freighters too. Maybe if there was something in between industrials and freighters, then I might be persuaded. But until there is, a freighter is the only option an empire corp has for large-scale hauling.
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Countess Amarisa
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:18:00 -
[4]
Another topic on "waa! i am too poor for a freighter! If i can't have one, no one can have one!" pointless
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:18:00 -
[5]
Is not the supply of NPC goods limited ?
How shall people transport the Outpost parts which will be available in Empire to 0.0 without freighter ?
How shall the transport minerals for dreads and other capital ships ?
PS
I underastand you concert but I think it will be better to tweak NPC goods supply rather than tweek freighters.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:21:00 -
[6]
He's partially right. Freighters will break the NPC market.
Of course, thanks to the extensive player market, the NPC market is both disruptive and unnecessary now.
Get rid of it entirely.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Blind Fear
He's partially right. Freighters will break the NPC market.
Of course, thanks to the extensive player market, the NPC market is both disruptive and unnecessary now.
Get rid of it entirely.
Bingo, aside from helping happless noobs get on their feet there ios no reason whatsoever for NPC goods to be supplied and demanded.
get rid of them.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:23:00 -
[8]
This was discussed before, and I was one of the people to go "WTF? Trade routes are gonna be *****d by freighters!".
Oveur explained that profitable trade good demands would never be enough to fill a freighter at a single station, so using a regular indy would be pretty much the same thing, plus the fact that frieghters go incredibly slow and have no slots.
On the other hand, big and unprofitable goods would be tradable by freighters, but wouldn't outprofit regular indies due to high volume / low profit per unit.
Instajumps are the main problem here if you ask me. At least limiting their use for frieghters until a general solution can be implemented isn't such a bad idea considering their cargo volumes.
And meh even though the trade thing seems kinda sketchy, in Oveur we trust!
(lolz @ your "Cold War Requirements" - Clueless whining is really in fashion this month)
__________________________
Finite Horizon
Your end is our beginning.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Blind Fear
He's partially right. Freighters will break the NPC market.
Of course, thanks to the extensive player market, the NPC market is both disruptive and unnecessary now.
Get rid of it entirely.
Signed.
NPC market is evil anyway.
I dont think its possible to get rid of it completely at this stage but trade goods could be nerfed to hell ( say less quantity available at one station and so on).
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kerby Lane
Is not the supply of NPC goods limited ?
Yes. And this will allow freighters to dry trade routes almost instantly which effectively will destory small traders.
Originally by: Kerby Lane
How shall people transport the Outpost parts which will be available in Empire to 0.0 without freighter ?
They should manufacture Outpost parts below 0.4 or/and NPC sale orders must be shifted to 0.4
Originally by: Kerby Lane
How shall the transport minerals for dreads and other capital ships ?
Dreads can not be used above 0.4 and last changes was made that freighters can't transport dreads. ( read last patch notes)
Originally by: Countess Amarisa
Another topic on "waa! i am too poor for a freighter! If i can't have one, no one can have one!" pointless
I can afford a freighter. And because I can and I know how easy it will be to make Isk in Empire I made this post.
Olivin
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Trooper B99 on 12/07/2005 14:33:10
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Bingo, aside from helping happless noobs get on their feet there is no reason whatsoever for NPC goods to be supplied and demanded.
I actually enjoyed playing the NPC good market on occasion. Then i moved to selling player gathered trade goods, then i moved almost entirely to minerals/tech ii. Trade goods can be a good deal for those willing to buy from agent runners and go sell them in different areas.
EDIT: oh and isn't it the case that when you buy up a trade run, the price increases and the profitability decreases? I can see some people using haulers for that, but only for select runs which i imagine would quickly become non-profitable compared to, for example, afk mining for the same period of time.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viceroy
Instajumps are the main problem here if you ask me. At least limiting their use for frieghters until a general solution can be implemented isn't such a bad idea considering their cargo volumes.
It would be funny if the size of a freighter was calculated in such a manner that if it overlaps with the gate, that the freighter gets bounced much like a ship bounced off a POS defensive shield.
Bouncy freighters = funny.
[Come to Daddy]
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Blind Fear
He's partially right. Freighters will break the NPC market.
Of course, thanks to the extensive player market, the NPC market is both disruptive and unnecessary now.
Get rid of it entirely.
Bingo, aside from helping happless noobs get on their feet there ios no reason whatsoever for NPC goods to be supplied and demanded.
get rid of them.
Actually, there is a very good reason why you may want them supplied, but not demanded by NPCs. The ever popular topic of the isk sink.
Having to buy stuff from the NPC's is one of the few ways that large quantities of isk can be removed from the game world. So NPC supply of trade goods etc is probably here to stay regardless. NPC demand on the other hand, injects isk into the game world. so I'm all in favour of getting rid of that end. With player demand for trade goods, there will still be a market for anyone who aquires some to sell them on, and there could still be trade routes - they would just depend on actual player demand rather than artificial NPC demand.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:36:00 -
[14]
Matthew .. why would people buy stuff from NPC's if you can't sell it.
It isn't like a can of quafe and a pack of smokes bought from npc's have any real use.
If you decide that they should be used in player production, are you not then advocating the NPC run market you are so often seen complaining about?
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Viceroy
Instajumps are the main problem here if you ask me. At least limiting their use for frieghters until a general solution can be implemented isn't such a bad idea considering their cargo volumes.
When Freighter with instas hit the NPC trade routes in a couple of weeks... you better have the anti-lvl 4 arguments coupled with the anti-instas arguments mate, because they will be the new high-sec empire no-risk cash cow.
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Old Man Singing (Gallente modern art) |
Olivin
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Viceroy
This was discussed before, and I was one of the people to go "WTF? Trade routes are gonna be *****d by freighters!".
Oveur explained that profitable trade good demands would never be enough to fill a freighter at a single station, so using a regular indy would be pretty much the same thing, plus the fact that frieghters go incredibly slow and have no slots.
On the other hand, big and unprofitable goods would be tradable by freighters, but wouldn't outprofit regular indies due to high volume / low profit per unit.
So, who will stop you to clean up a system by loading both more and less profitable trade goods?
Originally by: Viceroy
Instajumps are the main problem here if you ask me. At least limiting their use for frieghters until a general solution can be implemented isn't such a bad idea considering their cargo volumes.
100% agree, but I can't see how they can stop freighters using instas when instas are relative to the character, not ship.
Originally by: Viceroy
(lolz @ your "Cold War Requirements" - Clueless whining is really in fashion this month)
Will you stop it?  I am not whining, I am stating the fact. Besides, I benefit a lot from this path, but new players are not.
Olivin
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 12/07/2005 14:43:11
Quote:
Bingo, aside from helping happless noobs get on their feet there ios no reason whatsoever for NPC goods to be supplied and demanded.
You mean apart from to actually provide a trading profession ...
Rod Blaine please stick to talking about the things you particpate in and understand (whilst Kerby Lane and Blind Fear are just plain selfish )
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Uncle George
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Olivin
100% agree, but I can't see how they can stop freighters using instas when instas are relative to the character, not ship.
Quick and dirty hack: Have every freighter see a "fake" 15km warp bubble around whatever they're warping to.
Originally by: Avon
Matthew .. why would people buy stuff from NPC's if you can't sell it.
It isn't like a can of quafe and a pack of smokes bought from npc's have any real use.
If you decide that they should be used in player production, are you not then advocating the NPC run market you are so often seen complaining about?
Fair point, I was thinking more of the trade goods that are used to fuel POS/build outposts etc. The random stuff would kinda lose it's point.
I don't have a problem with players needing stuff from NPC's, as long as it's not the dominant part of what they need. A small part of requirements being NPC goods isn't going to make NPC's take over the markets. But if the NPC's take a large chunk of the requirements - via NPC-good refining mineral-price-caps for example, then it becomes a problem.
Matthew, that is without doubt the daftest idea I've heard so far today and I've already sat through two marketing meetings at work. I'm pretty sure nobody is going to spend 1 billion on a frieghter just to fill it with 90k of roes. 
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Uncle George
Matthew, that is without doubt the daftest idea I've heard so far today
There is a prime example why you should proof read your own posts.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:52:00 -
[20]
Quote:
That is what the trading profession in eve is, trading stuff manufactered by others. Not trading stuff manufactuired by npc's and with a guaranteed purchase price you already know upfront at some other NPC.
Yeah right and there is plenty of that to go aroound 50,000+ players isn't there 
Stop trying to wrap everything up in a tiny ball that all stems from mining blasted asteroids 
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Olivin
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Blind Fear
He's partially right. Freighters will break the NPC market.
Of course, thanks to the extensive player market, the NPC market is both disruptive and unnecessary now.
Get rid of it entirely.
Can be more specific? NPC market is not that simple or pure evil. Many trade goods needed for POS, I think robotics one of them. A lot of trade goods used in missions. And so on. I don't think you thought it through.
Olivin
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:54:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 12/07/2005 14:54:10
Originally by: Olivin
Originally by: Kerby Lane
Is not the supply of NPC goods limited ?
Yes. And this will allow freighters to dry trade routes almost instantly which effectively will destory small traders.
Not many trade routes out there that cannot be dried out by a well specced indy either. And even less that would fill even the bottom of a freighter.
And if someone has the money to by goods enough to dry out supply, and hence monopolise the demand - he can do so no matter the ship he has. He can of course increase the rate of turnover. But I refer you again to my first line. I would like to see anyone do damage to a trade route in a freighter than can't be mirrored in a well fitted indy/transporter.
And should there be a slight advantage, then that seems only fair. Or should every trader be limited to shuttles? And lets just see how many freighters that will be in play - and be used for that purpose.
I really would like to see this problem in effect before I cry wolf.
Trak Cranker |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Quote:
That is what the trading profession in eve is, trading stuff manufactered by others. Not trading stuff manufactuired by npc's and with a guaranteed purchase price you already know upfront at some other NPC.
Yeah right and there is plenty of that to go aroound 50,000+ players isn't there
Stop trying to wrap everything up in a tiny ball that all stems from mining blasted asteroids
Maybe you shouldnt discuss what you do not parttake in MOO 
Trading player manufatured goods, loot, concessions and whatever not is one hell of a way to make isk.
Actually it's THE way to make isk, but as opposed to mindlessly hauling crappy transistor radios from one static point to another it's something of a challenge.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:57:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/07/2005 14:57:49
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/07/2005 14:57:38
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Quote:
I used to make my isk trading, ok ?
Oh I see you just want to selfishly deny anybody partaking in an activity you've grown bored of ... that makes it ok then
Hehe, read up nub. I traded player made goods, minerals and loot, not planetary vehicles, antibiotics and the rest of that crap.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.07.12 14:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Uncle George
Matthew, that is without doubt the daftest idea I've heard so far today and I've already sat through two marketing meetings at work. I'm pretty sure nobody is going to spend 1 billion on a frieghter just to fill it with 90k of roes.
I'm not sure which post you were reading, but it obviously wasn't mine - nowhere have I come out for or against trading with a freighter. I simply pointed out one reason why completely removing the need for any NPC goods was a bad thing.
Oh, and never underestimate the stupidity of humans. I guarantee that if they can, someone will use a freighter to haul roes, just like i can guarantee that someone is going to put MDCM's on a dreadnaught.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:00:00 -
[26]
Personally could really careless about the npc market
What it is going to kill for small corps is the player mineral market along with every other bulk material moving market.
Basically there is never going to be bulk minerals for sale anywhere at blow out prices simply cause all it takes now is 1 freighter run to take the entire lot.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:01:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Hehe, read up nub. I traded player made goods, minerals and loot, not planetary vehicles, antibiotics and the rest of that crap.
So now you are confirming that you have never traded NPC goods - hence my original statement of 'stay out of things that you know nothing about or don't do (because you don't 'like them')
GG
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/07/2005 15:12:03
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Quote:
Hehe, read up nub. I traded player made goods, minerals and loot, not planetary vehicles, antibiotics and the rest of that crap.
So now you are confirming that you have never traded NPC goods - hence my original statement of 'stay out of things that you know nothing about or don't do (because you don't 'like them')
GG
Rofl, good one MOO.
At least you're witty and sharp. Not used to that stuff anymore on here.
Anyways, some honest explanation.
In ym nub days I killed NPC convoys like a braven minnie rebel (had a minnie alt to take the faction hits so could simply keep on going in the system of my choice).
I did this in Amarr system and TEW system.
Subsequently, I sold the NPC goods I got, refined the crappy refinable loot I got, and sold the sellable stuff like nice guns and stuff like that.
But of course, there's not always convoys in TEW, so I used to go around in my hauler and simply move NPC goods from A to B like a good little newb. Which btw is fine with me. Profits were nice for a new guy, but not so uber as they can be today with a freighter or decked out iteron 5. Of course, soon I discovered what the right runs were and made millions I should not be making that easily.
You see, the idea behind char progression in Eve is that players 'graduate' from being pawns of the NPC slavers to being self-entertaining entrepeneurs in space.
Removing the ability to make a medium-level living and even an insane crapload of isk (if you know the right routes), purely by hauling the right stuff from A to B and only needing to find it out once in a while is good.
Hell, it's silly enough that it's possible at all still.
What the trading profession in Eve should represent is player manufactured good trading, player found good trading, and resource trading and speculation. NPC goods are simply a mindless grind that pays too much in some cases. Who needs them, they only hold back the game at this point, and indeed look to be making freighters tools of afk billionaire creation.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:13:00 -
[29]
Quote:
NPC goods are simply a mindless grind that pays too much in some cases. Who needs them, they only hold back the game.
The same can be said of mining - so what's your point exactly ... remove everything that isn't a challenge to you personally (and the huge corp you're in)
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Kraythe
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Posted - 2005.07.12 15:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Olivin
Soon freighters will be available for mega corps and veteran players. Yes, freighters suppose to improve 0.0 logistics, but what will probably happens first, is that freighters will be used to dry all trade routes in Empire. We will see a lot of veteran/power players making billions of isk afk and in total safety. ( By Empire trade routes I mean NPC purchase/sell orders for the trade goods). This will effectively destroy all small trade corps as well as most of the solo/casual traders. Of course, most of "ubber" players/corps will never admit that, and why should they when they can place their traders/alts in NPC corps or in the shadow Empire outlets? I say restict freighters to 0.4 and below ( same as dreads), because:
Cold War patch requirements
1) 15 mil SP or more.
2) 1 bill ISK ( cash only) or more.
3) Member of power gamers corp.
4) At least 4 hours of the real time allocated for playing Eve on the daily basis.
Which effectively make freighters ( and most other patch content) available only to the specific group of players who should be busy developing 0.0, - not making easy isk in Empire and whining on the forums when new/solo/casual/ players infringe on a right to do the same.
Vote against freighters in Empire today!
Olivin
No one that makes a lot of money trading actually ships anything.
I made 12 million yesterday evening while barely watching the game and I never undocked.
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