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Give Cloaking the ASB / AAR treatment

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James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3670	Posted - 2013.02.07 06:45:00 - [181] - Quote So I assume you get hot dropped quite often in your wormhole anomalies, yes? Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Roime Shiva Furnace 1926	Posted - 2013.02.07 06:50:00 - [182] - Quote No. Do you have scouts on every gate of your ratting system and probes in the air while you PVE? -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3670	Posted - 2013.02.07 07:17:00 - [183] - Quote Roime wrote: No. Do you have scouts on every gate of your ratting system and probes in the air while you PVE? Do we pay these scouts or do they do it out of the goodness of their hearts? Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Roime Shiva Furnace 1927	Posted - 2013.02.07 07:20:00 - [184] - Quote I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts. -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3671	Posted - 2013.02.07 07:30:00 - [185] - Quote Roime wrote: I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts. So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered? I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 07:31:00 - [186] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Roime wrote: I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts. So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered? I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit after these deductions for far less effort. So go back to highsec. You aren't pvping anyway.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3671	Posted - 2013.02.07 07:36:00 - [187] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Roime wrote: I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts. So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered? I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit after these deductions for far less effort. So go back to highsec. You aren't pvping anyway. Quiet, the adults are talking. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm
Roime Shiva Furnace 1928	Posted - 2013.02.07 07:45:00 - [188] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Roime wrote: I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts. So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered? I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort. Yeah it's the only use I have for my 25mil SP covert ops alt -á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars -
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 13957	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:03:00 - [189] - Quote I actually like the status quo, as I feel it adds an extra dimension to the game. Vote Malcanis for CSM 8
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 947	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:28:00 - [190] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Nikk Narrel wrote: You are describing pilots who avoid PvP to an absolute degree Because someone wants to be able to make some isk means they avoid PVP to an absolute degree? That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? TheGunslinger42 wrote: that has to be the only reason, since it's the only thing that makes it massively different from wormholes No it isn't, but keep trying. When it comes to PVE in wormholes and null, the only big negative side for null is cynos. The other big differences of course are mass limits and static routes. The lack of mass limits in null doesn't make much of a difference, because if we're talking about ganking people running PVE then it can be done by a single pilot anyway. You don't need a hundred man fleet to take out a lone PVEr, so the lack of mass limits don't make it any more risky for him anyway Static routes, on the other hand, make it easier for the PVEr, as (excluding cynos) they can know exactly where a threat will come from and can have advance warning if they have friendly neighbours, or alts, etc to sit in neighbouring systems. Care to try and make an argument instead of just saying "NO" this time, bro?
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 947	Posted - 2013.02.07 08:44:00 - [191] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Roime wrote: I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts. So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered? I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort. I see this is as just a difference in attitude, which is fine. I lived in wormhole space for 2 years, and I did PVE to keep me in ships and to save for some shiny toys, but simply making isk wasn't my primary goal - if it was I'd have dedicated myself to incursions in highsec. I operated in that type of space because I liked the mechanics and style of PVP. The PVE in wormholes allowed me to afford that, that was what mattered to me - not ensuring I make the most possible isk for least possible risk.
Iminent Penance Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:22:00 - [192] - Quote If they wont nerf cloaking, can they at least make it so we can shoot and target things while cloaked? No more issue, now everyone can enjoy it now istead of just the afk/hot droppers/"intel gatherers" who dont like the thought of losing godmode. But I digress... (that was sarcasm if you didnt know, if you cant figure out why god help you) Theres so much room for balance, so many tears flow when balance is offered. Remember titans? So many people cried about the potential nerf of their godmode track fits.... same thing, new godmode, different tears. Issue: invincible, no not hot droppers, you can log a freaking, titan, cloak it in a system off a station in lowsec, dd something undocking, warp off. to become invincible again until you decide to decloak(yes i know the warpoff delay, which doesnt matter done right) "don't undock what you cant afford to lose" shouldnt be nullified by cloaking devices for 23/7... which I myself have abused, but it is bs. Limit them is fine, making them catchable breaks the idea of being invisible... but make it so it isnt "ima godmode forever umad?" Or... just add delays so they cant come back 5 minutes a day and be useful, for every x minutes cloaked, you need to wait y seconds to do anything" Ta-da, done right they can cloak long enough to gather intel, use cloak haulers to bring fuel or w.e to sustain the cloak... just lose their afk godmode, (less they be discovered). TLDR: Cloak timers (not 5 mins, id suggest fuel based and required on ship size/skills) Or... Activity delay based on cloak activation time. Thisd fix cloaking entirely to make it for active utility, not passive godmode. (or at least for "intel" like everyone cries about)
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:26:00 - [193] - Quote Iminent Penance wrote: If they wont nerf cloaking, can they at least make it so we can shoot and target things while cloaked? No more issue, now everyone can enjoy it now istead of just the afk/hot droppers/"intel gatherers" who dont like the thought of losing godmode. But I digress... (that was sarcasm if you didnt know, if you cant figure out why god help you) Theres so much room for balance, so many tears flow when balance is offered. Remember titans? So many people cried about the potential nerf of their godmode track fits.... same thing, new godmode, different tears. Issue: invincible, no not hot droppers, you can log a freaking, titan, cloak it in a system off a station in lowsec, dd something undocking, warp off. to become invincible again until you decide to decloak(yes i know the warpoff delay, which doesnt matter done right) "don't undock what you cant afford to lose" shouldnt be nullified by cloaking devices for 23/7... which I myself have abused, but it is bs. Limit them is fine, making them catchable breaks the idea of being invisible... but make it so it isnt "ima godmode forever umad?" Or... just add delays so they cant come back 5 minutes a day and be useful, for every x minutes cloaked, you need to wait y seconds to do anything" Ta-da, done right they can cloak long enough to gather intel, use cloak haulers to bring fuel or w.e to sustain the cloak... just lose their afk godmode, (less they be discovered). TLDR: Cloak timers (not 5 mins, id suggest fuel based and required on ship size/skills) Or... Activity delay based on cloak activation time. Thisd fix cloaking entirely to make it for active utility, not passive godmode. (or at least for "intel" like everyone cries about) "godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked. By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?
Iminent Penance Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:28:00 - [194] - Quote afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed... oh wait... :3 Astroniomix wrote: "godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked. By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well? If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something? ...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no. edit... to be a bit more clear, pos provides detection at the cost of losing those tactical advantages. If you can't see that, i propose we make poses mobile, and follow ships we want with a shield that we can toggle. Oh and all ships inside the shield shouldnt be scannable or visible on overview. (Now its like cloaking, as you yourself suggested :D)
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:33:00 - [195] - Quote Iminent Penance wrote: afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed... oh wait... :3 "godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked. By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well? [/quote] If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something? ...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.[/quote] How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........ So 1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread 2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk)
Iminent Penance Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:35:00 - [196] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed... oh wait... :3 "godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked. By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well? If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something? ...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.[/quote] How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........ So 1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread 2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk)[/quote] 1: no. reread. 2: tell me how to find and shoot a cloaked ship, please. You know how many big toys stay cloaked in lowsec for lols?
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:40:00 - [197] - Quote Iminent Penance wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed... oh wait... :3 Quote: "godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked. By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well? If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something? ...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no. How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........ So 1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread 2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk) 1: no. reread. 2: tell me how to find and shoot a cloaked ship, please. You know how many big toys stay cloaked in lowsec for lols? Local, you know he's there the instant he enters channel, you can't do anything to him, but he can't get you either. It's just like a guy in a pos shield. (cept the pos guy can take over the guns and shoot you with those)
Iminent Penance Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:53:00 - [198] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed... oh wait... :3 Quote: "godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked. By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well? If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something? ...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no. How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........ So 1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread 2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk) 1: no. reread. 2: tell me how to find and shoot a cloaked ship, please. You know how many big toys stay cloaked in lowsec for lols? Local, you know he's there the instant he enters channel, you can't do anything to him, but he can't get you either. It's just like a guy in a pos shield. (cept the pos guy can take over the guns and shoot you with those) if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:56:00 - [199] - Quote Iminent Penance wrote: if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that. And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel.
Iminent Penance Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation Black Core Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:57:00 - [200] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that. And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel. delaying it where concord isnt present, because theres no police npc force to logically "give" that intel... edit... make them invisible until seen by something WHILE the person that gets the notification is in system, easy enough. But this is about cloaking, not local xD
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:58:00 - [201] - Quote Iminent Penance wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that. And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel. delaying it where concord isnt present, because theres no police npc force to logically "give" that intel... Yea that's fine. Highsec doesn't benefit from local as much due to npc alts and lowsec appears to not care about cloakies.
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 948	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:50:00 - [202] - Quote Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that. And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel. No it isn't, it'd make wormholes not fun :(
Astroniomix Thorn Project Ushra'Khan 417	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:58:00 - [203] - Quote TheGunslinger42 wrote: Astroniomix wrote: Iminent Penance wrote: if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that. And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel. No it isn't, it'd make wormholes not fun :( It should be a nullsec only thing. (this is the part where things get tricky)
Buzzy Warstl The Strontium Asylum 465	Posted - 2013.02.07 14:04:00 - [204] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Buzzy Warstl wrote: And removing the roster from local chat only removes one intel source from the defender, when there are several more relevant intel sources and methods available to deal with all of the threats you mentioned. Yeah, come back to me when d-scan is able to detect cloaked ships. But I'm guessing you're going to tell me that's not going to happen, because you want to have your cake and eat it too. You mean to tell me you think that local and dscan are the only intel tools available to an individual in nullsec, let alone a whole alliance? Pull the other one, it's got bells on it. http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
TravelBuoy Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 75	Posted - 2013.02.07 22:28:00 - [205] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Buzzy Warstl wrote: Quite a few people play in WH space despite the lack of local and the player skill necessary to play there at all. Do I really have to remind you that there are several relevant mechanics that are different between WH space and null that makes the lack of local viable in one and not the other? Buzzy Warstl wrote: Frankly, the local chat member display is an impediment to people playing in nullsec in general. And yet that doesn't seem to stop us. Buzzy Warstl wrote: Nobody likes trying to look like they are sneaking around when they have a great big spotlight on them. And yet that doesn't seem to stop us. Nor does it prevent us from getting kills. Right now you can only kill ratters if they aren't paying attention to local. If you remove local there won't be anybody ratting for you to kill. So many coward cloaker troll write here. Forget them.

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